i'm sure somewhere on here there's an answer to paizo going 4th edition and when if so but i sure can't find it anywhere so a new thread and hopefully a good answer soon since it affects whether i renew my subscription to pathfinder or not........i'm sorry guys but 4th edition seriously looks like the worst game to ever come out for role-playing......the logo sucks; the rules suck; i'm pretty sure whoever is writing it just slapped some crap together and said there. Hol was better than this (how many of you remember hol?)
i'm sure somewhere on here there's an answer to paizo going 4th edition and when if so but i sure can't find it anywhere so a new thread and hopefully a good answer soon since it affects whether i renew my subscription to pathfinder or not........i'm sorry guys but 4th edition seriously looks like the worst game to ever come out for role-playing......the logo sucks; the rules suck; i'm pretty sure whoever is writing it just slapped some crap together and said there. Hol was better than this (how many of you remember hol?)
Paizo is not decided yet. They have signed an NDA to get a copy of the new Gaming License so they can decide whether they want to spend $5000 to get the 4th Edition rules. If they do spend the money, then they'll read the rules and make a decision.
In the meantime, the 2nd Pathfinder WILL be 3.5. The 3rd Pathfinder's edition is unknown until Paizo makes a decision. Keep your subscription for now :)
Paizo has not yet decided if they will be using 4E or not, because they haven't seen any more of it than we have.
IF they decided to use 4E, the earliest it will happen is for Pathfinder #13, the first installment of the "Second Darkness" Adventure Path. So, relax. Even if they switch, you have another six months of high-quality 3.5E Pathfinders coming to you.
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i'm sure somewhere on here there's an answer to paizo going 4th edition and when if so but i sure can't find it anywhere so a new thread and hopefully a good answer soon since it affects whether i renew my subscription to pathfinder or not........i'm sorry guys but 4th edition seriously looks like the worst game to ever come out for role-playing......the logo sucks; the rules suck; i'm pretty sure whoever is writing it just slapped some crap together and said there. Hol was better than this (how many of you remember hol?)
I love Hol. It had the chart chart and the table of pudding.
Odds are Paizo will be paying the 5K for one good reason:
AP3 maybe 4E, but at this point I am doubting it more and more. Every date that Paizo has said that they need the rules by has past, long since. Some of their freelancers have had the playtest rules for a while (Nic is the only one we have a confirmation on).
AP4 might be. We'll see.
Contributor
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As has been stated already. We don't know when or if we'll switch. We have yet to see the license under which we would have to operate to print 4e-compatible goods, despite having expressed a willingness to probably pay the $5k. Until we see the license and then, at some later point, the rules, we can't make a sound business or creative decision.
At this point, it is extraordinarily unlikely that Second Darkness will be 4e. It's not impossible, though.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Until we see the license and then, at some later point, the rules, we can't make a sound business or creative decision.
At this point, it is extraordinarily unlikely that Second Darkness will be 4e. It's not impossible, though.
Let me ask you this, guys.
Under what business plan of Wizards would it be to their advantage for Pathfinder material not to be 4th Edition-GSL compatable?
This is the trick I'm having trouble getting my head around: you guys have a time-tested product line with a solid fan base. If you were to publish Second Darkness as 4th Edition-GSL, that would motivate a considerable number of Core Rulebook sales.
Why would they not want that?
When they stated they were signing up, I canceled my subscriptions. As people state, vote with your wallet.
Good luck though...
(Correct, I have no interest in 4e because I enjoy 3.5e)
When they stated they were signing up, I canceled my subscriptions. As people state, vote with your wallet.
Good luck though...
(Correct, I have no interest in 4e because I enjoy 3.5e)
My, plan on buying pathfinder as long as its 3.5. If AP4 is 4E, I'll cancel at that point in time. Or rather I'll change my subscription to Planet Stories.
Creative Director
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When they stated they were signing up, I canceled my subscriptions. As people state, vote with your wallet.
Good luck though...
(Correct, I have no interest in 4e because I enjoy 3.5e)
As Mike said above... we haven't made any decisions yet. We can't. We still haven't been given the rules to look over. At this point, Pathfinder will remain 3.5 through to #12, guaranteed. There's a VERY good chance it'll remain 3.5 to #18 as well.
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Why would they not want that?
The only thing I could imagine is that they view Paizo a too strong competition with regards to the overall quality of their own adventures. But as you said, Paizo's inclusion into the 4E would motivate sales of their own products (and shut some critical mouths, I'd bet), so I don't think they would be so short-sighted.
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Contributor
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Let me ask you this, guys.
Under what business plan of Wizards would it be to their advantage for Pathfinder material not to be 4th Edition-GSL compatable?
This is the trick I'm having trouble getting my head around: you guys have a time-tested product line with a solid fan base. If you were to publish Second Darkness as 4th Edition-GSL, that would motivate a considerable number of Core Rulebook sales.
Why would they not want that?
The business plan where they get the money of ALL D&D players, and not just those D&D players who don't pick up Pathfinder. Since the end of the magazine licenses, the poorly guarded not-secret is that Paizo and WotC are now technically competitors. Friendly competitors, of course, but still...
When they stated they were signing up, I canceled my subscriptions. As people state, vote with your wallet.
Good luck though...
(Correct, I have no interest in 4e because I enjoy 3.5e)
Let me get this straight, Dave. Because Paizo said they would start publishing 4th edition products, like next year most likely, you canceled your subscription now? So instead of getting the v.3.5 products that will continue to come out for the rest of the year, you drop out at even the hint that there will be some 4E stuff much later on? Makes no sense to me, but to each their own. Way to show 'em, Dave! :\
Mike/James:
Are any Paizo folks going to the D&D experience?
At this rate, you may see the rules faster if you go. ;)
Maybe you should try voting with your brain instead. Or, if not your brain, at least vote with something located a little further away from your ass.
That is pretty rude, Sebastian.
Maybe you should try voting with your brain instead. Or, if not your brain, at least vote with something located a little further away from your ass.That is pretty rude, Sebastian.
Indeed.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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It's one thing to quit buying products because someone announces they are actually going to support 4e, but we're not even there. He quit buying products from Paizo because they might decide to see the license and might decide to produce some 4e products. That's just stupid.
When they stated they were signing up, I canceled my subscriptions. As people state, vote with your wallet.
Good luck though...
(Correct, I have no interest in 4e because I enjoy 3.5e)
As someone who, at some point, supported Paizo I don't want to be too harsh in replying to your post.
At the same time if everyone who wanted to Paizo to stick with 3.5 (and that includes me) dropped them at the mere mention of their considering 4th edition then Paizo would be forced to move to 4th edition.
I support Paizo for 3 reasons:
1] They put out high quality products for 3.5 (which I intend on sticking with).
2] They have an excellent rapport with their customers and seem like they give a crap about us and our opinions.
3] WotC screwed them (and us) by pulling Dungeon and Dragon magazines.
#3 is what got me to become a Pathfinder subscriber and regular on these boards. #3 is a BIG part of why I don't want to support WotC any longer and why I'm hoping that Paizo disentangles itself from WotC by sticking with OGL compatible material for 3.5. #3 is why nearly all of my gaming $$$$ goes into Paizo's coffer and why I haven't bought a new WotC product in the last 6 months.
It's one thing to quit buying products because someone announces they are actually going to support 4e, but we're not even there. He quit buying products from Paizo because they might decide to see the license and might decide to produce some 4e products. That's just stupid.
I agree that it doesn't make much sense; I just don't see the point of being so mean about pointing it out. The OP isn't going to take the time to understand your point when you phrase things that way.
You're a smart guy Sebastian, but more people would appreciate your intellect if you'd stop using it to bludgeon them.
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As has been stated already. We don't know when or if we'll switch. We have yet to see the license under which we would have to operate to print 4e-compatible goods, despite having expressed a willingness to probably pay the $5k. Until we see the license and then, at some later point, the rules, we can't make a sound business or creative decision.
This might have already been asked in another thread but regarding the license, is there anything specific that would stop Paizo from switching to 4E?
It's one thing to quit buying products because someone announces they are actually going to support 4e, but we're not even there. He quit buying products from Paizo because they might decide to see the license and might decide to produce some 4e products. That's just stupid.
I have to agree (even if the presentation isn't my preference). If Paizo can't produce 3.5 Pathfinder profitably while 4E isn't available, then they sure as hell won't be able to produce a 3.5 version profitably when 4E is available. If others followed your example, Paizo's customers wouldn't be fired, they'd quit. So Paizo'd have to go out and seek out new customers ... and those customers would be 4E customers.
By saying, "I'll keep subscribing as long as its 3.5," Paizo has an extra incentive to stay 3.5. Nothing's going to speed up Paizo products going 4E then the customers not buying their 3.5 products. It doesn't matter if the GSL is the worst thing since someone wondered what dog crap actually tasted like and decided to find out first hand, if they're not selling enough of their 3.5 products, Paizo will take the GSL and make Pathfinder 4E, and come up with a backup plan, expecting WotC to someday say, "You can't make products for our game anymore."
If Paizo can't produce 3.5 Pathfinder profitably while 4E isn't available, then they sure as hell won't be able to produce a 3.5 version profitably when 4E is available..."
Pathfinder is a superior product, but since I'm leaning toward 4E I'm largely buying the 2nd path to see Paizo through until August. This Saturday is my first session DMing ROTRL. I'm quite sure I'll still be playing that until after 4E comes out, so I'll probably never run Curse of the Crimson Throne. Hopefully when all is said and done Paizo will decide to go the same way I do, but if they don't doing my (tiny) part to keep them around long enough to make an informed decision is something I will never regret.
Since its an opinion I pretty much never see on here, let me say that I stopped subscribing to Pathfinder the day 4E was announced. My group will no doubt switch over once its released, and to be honest, we already have tons of 3.5 stuff to play anyway, a large amount of which seems unlikely to ever get played now.
Once Paizo switches back over to 4E, however, I'll be happy to give them my money again! :)
Just throwing my two cents in . . .
I support Paizo and Pathfinder for the high quality of the product they put out, regardless of edition. My gaming group dictates what mechanics we use in a game. If I decide to run RotRL and my group insists running it 4e, then I'll run it 4e (after it's released and all that, my group has already decided to convert, whether I want to or not) If Paizo decides to switch pathfinder to 4e aith AP3, 4, or 5 . . . and my group wants me to run them through a 4e aP but, they've decided they like 3.5 more, I'll run it 3.5
Let the story and the "fluff" drive how you run your game. Don't get caught up on the mechanics and "crunch". Paizo puts out phenomenal story with their product. regardless of which edition they publish . . . I'll run it, either in the published edition, or converted to whichever mechanics my group uses . . . whether it's 3.5, 3.75, 4e, True20, Fate, or a homebrew.
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At this point, it is extraordinarily unlikely that Second Darkness will be 4e. It's not impossible, though.
At this point, Pathfinder will remain 3.5 through to #12, guaranteed. There's a VERY good chance it'll remain 3.5 to #18 as well.
YIPPEE!
If this is true, how can I say thank-you in a way that also says 'keep producing 3.5 materials'. For example, I'm thinking of buying a bunch of 3.5 books from the online store. Does that say it as clearly as my subscription? Should I start buying gift subscriptions for others?
You know, I totally would if there was something other than a 'month-to-month' option. That just doesn't make a very good present. What if I have a falling-out and start hating the person in two months?
Maybe you should try voting with your brain instead. Or, if not your brain, at least vote with something located a little further away from your ass.That is pretty rude, Sebastian.
I thought it was clever, myself. (Okay, it's still rude, but at least it's witty rude.)
Personally, with the release of 4E drawing ever closer I've decided to stop supporting WOTC and throw it all to Paizo. Rise of the Runelords has been an amazing adventure path. When the evil empire decided to kill Dungeon and Dragon I converted my subscription over to Pathfinder, and I'm very happy I did so. As long as Paizo stays with 3.5 I'm a repeat customer.
If they switch to 4E, I may still keep my subscription as "reading material". I think this is an important distinction between WOTC (evil empire) and Paizo (good guys). If the good guys are forced to go 4E for business survival reasons, I can still support them without a single $0.01 of my money going to the evil empire. Of course I really do hope the good guys can keep fighting the good fight and stay 3.5 for perpetuity...
It's one thing to quit buying products because someone announces they are actually going to support 4e, but we're not even there. He quit buying products from Paizo because they might decide to see the license and might decide to produce some 4e products. That's just stupid.
Sebastian - I like your get-to-the-point style and posts. I'm tired of the messageboards where people can make dumb statements then go and hide behind some grandmother's skirts. It's nice to see someone with some common sense calls them on it...
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Contributor
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This might have already been asked in another thread but regarding the license, is there anything specific that would stop Paizo from switching to 4E?
Yes. I'm not sure I can or should go into specifics, but there are things that could be included that would scare us away from switching to 4e (or more specifically, the GSL). One thing that might scare us (didn't I just say I wanted to avoid specifics?) is language that could let the license end (or be ended). For example. Hypothetically. I can neither confirm nor deny my participation in this thread.
Hypothetically. I can neither confirm nor deny my participation in this thread.
Who was that masked dragon appender !!!
-- david
Papa-DRB
Grognard
My better half and me
I thought it was clever, myself. (Okay, it's still rude, but at least it's witty rude.)Maybe you should try voting with your brain instead. Or, if not your brain, at least vote with something located a little further away from your ass.That is pretty rude, Sebastian.
I liked it as well. Maybe a little rude, sure, but it gets the point across.
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Chief Technical Officer
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...how can I say thank-you in a way that also says 'keep producing 3.5 materials'. For example, I'm thinking of buying a bunch of 3.5 books from the online store. Does that say it as clearly as my subscription? Should I start buying gift subscriptions for others?
To answer your question generically, subscribing to Pathfinder, Pathfinder Chronicles, GameMastery Modules, and Planet Stories would be the four best things you can do to support us. Seeing as how you've already gone that far, yes, gift subscriptions would be great, and so would buying other items here at paizo.com.
You know, I totally would if there was something other than a 'month-to-month' option. That just doesn't make a very good present. What if I have a falling-out and start hating the person in two months?
The best way to buy a gift sub is to purchase a MasterCard or Visa Gift Card for the recipient. You can load it up as much (or as little) as you like, and when the balance runs to $0, we'll let them know.
And thank YOU!
Though I've stated this before in the "Tell Me Truly" thread, I just thought I'd mention again that no matter what edition Paizo continues to support, or even if they make their own set of RPG rules, I will continue to support them financially due to the high quality of the products they put out. Its worth buying purely as reading material (which is what ends up happening to 75 percent of the modules I buy anyway.)
I didn’t want to get into all this but this one matters to me so here’s my angle:
Recently discovered Pathfinder/Paizo, love the products, love the site, love the philosophy.
I get my stuff from Le Valet de Coeur in Montréal since it’s the gaming institution around here and I want to encourage them and Paizo.
I’m holding to get a subscription to Pathfinder until I know that I get in to it for more than 6 months since I don’t intend on going 4e (standard reasons)and the crunch counts for a lot to me (no free time to bla, bla , bla…).
It’s just my opinion but I respect it ;-)