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Nice variant, DP.
Logically, though, the 12th iconic really needs to be someone who can cover caster duties. We know the group will be a barbarian (beatstick), monk (skillmonkey), and druid (divine caster), which leaves them short an arcanist.
Given how much Paizo seems to like Green Ronin's stuff, I wonder if we're going to see a base class from the Advanced Player's Manual make an appearance - eldritch weaver, anyone?
Not sure how well it would fill the shoes of the arcane slot, but a psychic would be cool.
Maybe we'll see pathfinder as a core class (not sure that I like this idea, but it is there).
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Nice variant, DP.
Logically, though, the 12th iconic really needs to be someone who can cover caster duties. We know the group will be a barbarian (beatstick), monk (skillmonkey), and druid (divine caster), which leaves them short an arcanist.
Given how much Paizo seems to like Green Ronin's stuff, I wonder if we're going to see a base class from the Advanced Player's Manual make an appearance - eldritch weaver, anyone?
It doesn't necessarily have to be a new class. We might just see another wizard or sorcerer iconic.
Creative Director
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Nice variant, DP.
Logically, though, the 12th iconic really needs to be someone who can cover caster duties. We know the group will be a barbarian (beatstick), monk (skillmonkey), and druid (divine caster), which leaves them short an arcanist.
Given how much Paizo seems to like Green Ronin's stuff, I wonder if we're going to see a base class from the Advanced Player's Manual make an appearance - eldritch weaver, anyone?
I've seen plenty of campaigns go to high level without an arcane caster involved. It can be done. They aren't as important as they think they are. Especially with a druid around to blast things with fire and lightning.
Especially with a druid around to blast things with fire and lightning.
I was about to say the same thing: Druids aren't that bad in the role of magic artillery.
Anyway, a psion or wilder would make a decent complement to that mix.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a new class. We might just see another wizard or sorcerer iconic.
Yeah, with wizards being possible specialists, it is quite easy to have very different wizards.
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I've seen plenty of campaigns go to high level without an arcane caster involved. It can be done. They aren't as important as they think they are. Especially with a druid around to blast things with fire and lightning.
It's not the blasting, it's the movement powers (flight, teleportation, planar travel) that really seem to be vital. You yourself said in a post a few months ago (in one of the Xanesha threads, I think) that you assumed that groups above 6th level would have access to fly and similar effects when you design adventures. That's the kind of thing that worries me...
If they weren't WotC IP, I'd say beguiler would be a perfect fourth character to round out a barbarian, druid, and monk. Since they're not in the OGL, the lack of anyone to deal with locks and traps may end up being as great a weakness as limited access to control and mobility enhancement spells.
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If they weren't WotC IP, I'd say beguiler would be a perfect fourth character to round out a barbarian, druid, and monk. Since they're not in the OGL, the lack of anyone to deal with locks and traps may end up being as great a weakness as limited access to control and mobility enhancement spells.
The Crimson Throne batch are as lacking in that area. In the SRD, only rogues have trapfinding to my knowledge. (The dwarf can pick up a small amount of that slack... but only a small amount.) In fact, since the barbarian gets trap sense, the third group may be better off over all...
I'm gonna chime in here, so far I have really loved the Iconics that have appeared. They have even made an appearance in our home game! Fleshed out interesting characters add so much flavor to the game. I for one would love to see the list continue to grow forever.
For taht reason it would be great to see new iconics in future releases instead of old ones. I'm not trying to be greedy, but I do have a great respect for the work that the Paizo staff does. I hold the Pathfinder universe in the same esteem as Star Wars or Wheel of Time (both favorites of mine), and the characters presented are some of what make these worlds so much fun to explore. In that sense, it would be strange to see George Lucas tell a new star wars story with Luke Skywalker once again as a young man with no knowlege of the force on a planet other than Tatooine. It just wouldn't seem right. Keeping that in mind, I would love to see more of Valarios and the others in future adventures, just not as level one characters again. It would be fun to explore what they do after they defeat the rune lords and continue on into epic levels! For new adventures starting at level one though, I would prefer to see new faces.
Once again, I'm not trying to be whiney and I hate asking for more when I've already gotten a good pile of great materiel from writers who are already probably handeling huge work loads. However, if you all have the time I would appreciate it.
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I'd guess the request for a whole new set of iconics anytime soon is unlikely to happen. I too like the variety, but putting the pregens in the back is probably the least important use for the iconics to Paizo. The main reasons to have them are branding, and more important, a consistent look-and-feel to the art. If they always cast the same dude for the role of fighter, say, it is much easier for the artists to produce any given scene that calls for the fighter. This effect is at work in the interior art; most if not all of the action scenes have at least one iconic, most of the rest are maps, landscapes, or portraits of enemies.
That said, an "I" series of modules set in each iconic's homeland and staring each iconic in turn would be cool for the fans, but might not have enough general appeal.
While people are guessing the classes what about the races. Half-orc probably barbarian. Half-elf? Druid maybe or monk. Gnome? Illusionist?
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While people are guessing the classes what about the races. Half-orc probably barbarian. Half-elf? Druid maybe or monk. Gnome? Illusionist?
I'd guess the druid is more likely a gnome. Size matters not to shapechangers. Since Seoni was Varisian, I'll guess that the barbarian will be a Shoanti human. Maybe the monk will be half elven, but Tsuto already was, so I'd figure the monk for a human or half-orc, if they were going to have one.
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Creative Director
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I'd guess the druid is more likely a gnome. Size matters not to shapechangers. Since Seoni was Varisian, I'll guess that the barbarian will be a Shoanti human. Maybe the monk will be half elven, but Tsuto already was, so I'd figure the monk for a human or half-orc, if they were going to have one.
One of those is right.
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I think a gnome druid would be awesome. It matches with their close relationship to fey and all things wild. It would be a great showcase for Golarion gnomes. Maybe he or she is painted in blue woad, and carries bits of animal bones on him like quasi-magical fetishes.
Human monk....always cool. I liked Paizo's STAP monk iconic, can't wait to see what else they pull out of their hat.
I'd guess the request for a whole new set of iconics anytime soon is unlikely to happen. I too like the variety, but putting the pregens in the back is probably the least important use for the iconics to Paizo. The main reasons to have them are branding, and more important, a consistent look-and-feel to the art. If they always cast the same dude for the role of fighter, say, it is much easier for the artists to produce any given scene that calls for the fighter. This effect is at work in the interior art; most if not all of the action scenes have at least one iconic, most of the rest are maps, landscapes, or portraits of enemies.
I'm feeling you, I just wish there was some third alternative to go with other than a reboot of the iconics we have, which seems a terrible disservice to them as characters in the setting, and something else, which would cause inconsistancy issues or whatever.
I don't have problems seeing any of them in the art. I likewise don't have any problem getting fiction or whatever with their continuing exploits post Runelords (or whatever AP they're from). Novels, especially would be awesome--as we've been chewing over the past few months.
Please don't let there be another iconic half-orc barbarian.
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I'd guess the druid is more likely a gnome. Size matters not to shapechangers. Since Seoni was Varisian, I'll guess that the barbarian will be a Shoanti human. Maybe the monk will be half elven, but Tsuto already was, so I'd figure the monk for a human or half-orc, if they were going to have one.One of those is right.
Aweso, the Gnome Druid? Snoja, a Mammoth Lady Bbn? Otust, the good twin? It seems only time will tell!
Please don't let there be another iconic half-orc barbarian.
How about half-orc monk, half-elf barbarian, gnome druid, and human *specialist* wizard
I'd guess the druid is more likely a gnome. Size matters not to shapechangers. Since Seoni was Varisian, I'll guess that the barbarian will be a Shoanti human. Maybe the monk will be half elven, but Tsuto already was, so I'd figure the monk for a human or half-orc, if they were going to have one.One of those is right.
Hmmm...
Human (Shoanti) Barbarian (Totems?); almost a given, IMO
Half-Orc Druid (Druidic Avenger? Aspect of Nature?); possibly Half-Elf, but Paizo has already done an Elf Druid iconic for Dungeon
Gnome Monk (!); I would have preferred a Half-Orc, but this could be interesting, especially with the Fighting Styles in the SRD
Half-Elf ???(maybe some nature-themed variant from the SRD); possibly Half-Orc
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Guys, seriously: JJ said there are no half-orcs in the iconics.
In fact, he's said that there are seven humans (and we've only seen five) and a gnome - so I'm thinking human, human, gnome, and half-elf. I'd put my money on the Shoanti barbarian, personally, but that's just a guess.
EDIT: For those who are wondering, here's the quote:
I was wondering when someone would notice that...
Yeah. No half-orcs in the first 12 Pathfinder covers. They'll be along soon thereafter, I guess. Blame their net negatvie ability modifiers if you must blame anything...
Guys, seriously: JJ said there are no half-orcs in the iconics.
Rats... Half-orcs are so underappreciated.
Human barbarian, human (or half-elf) druid, gnome monk, and half-elf (or human) mystery class, then.
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Guys, seriously: JJ said there are no half-orcs in the iconics.Rats... Half-orcs are so underappreciated.
Human barbarian, human (or half-elf) druid, gnome monk, and half-elf (or human) mystery class, then.
There will be two men and two women, too, since the gender balance will reportedly even out in the end.
Guys, seriously: JJ said there are no half-orcs in the iconics.Rats... Half-orcs are so underappreciated.
Human barbarian, human (or half-elf) druid, gnome monk, and half-elf (or human) mystery class, then.
I would actually be surprised if there is a gnome as well, considering neither half-orcs or gnomes are going to be core races in 4th edition, and Paizo is still considering updating to it.
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I would actually be surprised if there is a gnome as well, considering neither half-orcs or gnomes are going to be core races in 4th edition, and Paizo is still considering updating to it.Guys, seriously: JJ said there are no half-orcs in the iconics.Rats... Half-orcs are so underappreciated.
Human barbarian, human (or half-elf) druid, gnome monk, and half-elf (or human) mystery class, then.
James has elsewhere confirmed the existence of a gnome iconic, though I'm going to spare myself the trouble of hunting down the actual quote. It was in the thread about why the iconics are built so "poorly," though, if someone else wants to do so.
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I would actually be surprised if there is a gnome as well, considering neither half-orcs or gnomes are going to be core races in 4th edition, and Paizo is still considering updating to it.
One of the iconics will indeed be a gnome. They will remain a core PC race in Pathfinder, regardless of what rules system we're using in the future.
I would totally love a gnomish bard. That would so rule, what with Golarion gnomes being the colorful sorts they are.
I would actually be surprised if there is a gnome as well, considering neither half-orcs or gnomes are going to be core races in 4th edition, and Paizo is still considering updating to it.One of the iconics will indeed be a gnome. They will remain a core PC race in Pathfinder, regardless of what rules system we're using in the future.
Well he/she's gotta be a druid then right? I gnome barbarian or monk would be terrible..haha...unless it will be the as-so-far unknown 12th class>?
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Please don't let there be another iconic half-orc barbarian.How about half-orc monk, half-elf barbarian, gnome druid, and human *specialist* wizard
Gnome druid, F human barbarian, M human monk, human or half-elf other. I doubt it's a mono specialist since Karzoug's issue seems to be available, and specialist wizards look much like generalists, despite the fluff in the splatbooks. Seriously, another cleric would be the best choice for the distinct look. Kyra's props and costume are closely tied with Sarenrae. A cleric of Erastil, Shelyn, Gozreh, or Calistria decked out in faithwear would be pretty distinctive. Those also have the advantage of using weapons none of the other iconics use much, so far. A gothic looking cleric of Pharasma might also work, but probably would have to be a guy, since Tyralandi had that covered.
I still expect the mystery class to be something out of the SRD, which is why I've been pushing for another cleric. I've also lobbied for a psionic, but that has no chance. Since all the other characters are just one class, I'll guess the 12th is something aimed at a prestige class like mystic theurge, arcane archer, or maybe dragon disciple, duelist, or thaumaturgist. Those prestige classes all seem like the ones that would easily lend themselves to cool art, perhaps AA and DD less so than the others. The mystic theurge also has the advantages of a low barrier to entry, and allows more unusual parties to be cast in future Gamemastery modules, like the beefcake special of Valeros/Bbn/Seelah/MT or a more subtle mix like Merisiel, Harsk, Monk, MT. The main counterargument to the MT is the stat block space constraints, but it might be manageable if one or both of the arcane/divine classes is spontaneous, as spontaneous divines are in he UA section of d20srd.org.
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Well he/she's gotta be a druid then right? I gnome barbarian or monk would be terrible..haha...unless it will be the as-so-far unknown 12th class>?
One of the iconics will indeed be a gnome. They will remain a core PC race in Pathfinder, regardless of what rules system we're using in the future.
The Con bonus nicely fuels the slow-burning bloodlusts and genocidal rages gnomes are known for. For instance, Rassi Thimblebock was a terror of the Cauldron region, from what I've read. (Talk about Made of Hit Points!) Plus, that kobold ratcatcher in FotSG has to have her opposite number somewhere out there, right? OTOH, their traditional enemies have aready made appearances in Paizo products, especially the giants.
Yeah, I'm thinking druid. Oddly, the Sanos sounds fey, yet Golarion gnomes have Orc instead of Sylvan as a bonus language choice.
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Guys, seriously: JJ said there are no half-orcs in the iconics.In fact, he's said that there are seven humans (and we've only seen five)
Drat forgot about that bit about Half-Orc.
I would actually be surprised if there is a gnome as well, considering neither half-orcs or gnomes are going to be core races in 4th edition, and Paizo is still considering updating to it.
Half orcs and gnomes aren't the only Iconics that'll be in trouble for Paizo if Pathfinder goes 4E...
We won't see Seoni for awhile because unless something changes, Sorcerers still aren't 4e core. :(
[A] gnome barbarian or monk would be terrible...
Look again.
Small size gives an extra +1 to AC and attack rolls, the rage ability for barbarian and increasing unarmed damage for monk balance the Str penalty and smaller damage dice, and both gain additional movement. In other words, the mechanical drawbacks of the race are lessened by the class abilities. The Con bonus is nice for both classes and the racial abilities (especially combat bonuses and spell-like abilities) add to the versatility of the character.
Unless you ment it in the same context as "Ivan the Terrible."
I would actually be surprised if there is a gnome as well, considering neither half-orcs or gnomes are going to be core races in 4th edition, and Paizo is still considering updating to it.One of the iconics will indeed be a gnome. They will remain a core PC race in Pathfinder, regardless of what rules system we're using in the future.
Congrats on Post 5000!
Congrats on Post 5000!
Same here!
Wow!
You know you're dealing with a decent company if their bigwigs are all in the top ten postcount list.
Gnome Druid would rock. Would explain why they're so mum about their homeland, their fey neighbors whisper nature's secrets into their ears.
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Wow. I've posted a lot to these boards, as it turns out.
ANYway... I've long maintained that gnomes make the best druids, because they kind of have a built-in ability to speak with some animals. A gnome who has a badger animal companion and summons badgers can talk to them and give them orders even after she's cast all her speak with animal spells.
She'd be better off with a snow leopard animal companion, though. Just sayin...
My twelve year old son joined us for Runelords a few weeks ago as Jakardos and this week Breakbones put a stop to that. He's going to build a dwarf cleric (who escaped from Jorgenfist) and is going to take a gnome druid from the Sanos Forest as a cohort.
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I'd guess the druid is more likely a gnome. Size matters not to shapechangers. Since Seoni was Varisian, I'll guess that the barbarian will be a Shoanti human. Maybe the monk will be half elven, but Tsuto already was, so I'd figure the monk for a human or half-orc, if they were going to have one.One of those is right.
So in view of the vudran human monk, does this mean the gnome is the barbarian?
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So in view of the vudran human monk, does this mean the gnome is the barbarian?I'd guess the druid is more likely a gnome. Size matters not to shapechangers. Since Seoni was Varisian, I'll guess that the barbarian will be a Shoanti human. Maybe the monk will be half elven, but Tsuto already was, so I'd figure the monk for a human or half-orc, if they were going to have one.One of those is right.
Logically, "one of those" is not equivalent to "exactly one of those," so not necessarily. For that matter, even if James did mean "exactly one of those," the gnome could be the 12th iconic - the party would be human monk, human druid, half-elf barbarian and gnome whatever.
A gnome barbarian would be interesting, with at least one thing going for it (+2 Con is nice with a d12 hit die and Con-based raging), one hefty thing going against it (the barbarian's purpose is damage, and both Small size and -2 Str hurt that function), and a couple of things that are kind of a draw (fast movement negates the base 20 ft speed, Small size negates the Strength loss for attack purposes). It might fit with the forest-based fey-descended gnomes, though...
In a bit less than a week, the book of experimental might will be released, and it will include the Runeblade class.
If the license mojo works out, it could be used for the 12th Iconic. Come on. Runeblade! If the class fits the name, it could be an ancient order of Thassalonian mageknights in service to the runelords (or one of them). Something obscure and little-known, but something that someone has found in old texts (or claims to have done so) in some ruins and wants to revive now. The 12th iconic could be a disciple of that person.
Other than that, I second the swashbuckler suggestion.