I just read that the default world for D&D 4.0 will not have a name. It will just have one sun and one moon, so we don't confuse anyone. Also, it will include sites from other named worlds like the Isle of Dread (Mystara) and the Temple of Elemental Evil (Greyhawk). I am pretty sure that Waterdeep will be there too.
OOOOOOkay...I can see the need for change, but does that mean that all of those other worlds will cease to exist? All of the hard work that went into Eberron will be torn to shreds. Where are the Warforged in this new, nameless world? How will the Gnomes be killed off? I am actually looking forward to that one.
Since it has no name, one sun, and one moon, how about we just call it "Earth"? Isn't that what you ultimately want us to do? Stop playing D&D and live our lives rooted in the reality of Earth and all of it's uselessness? Isn't that what this Apocolypse is about? I don't know...
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Since it has no name, one sun, and one moon, how about we just call it "Earth"? Isn't that what you ultimately want us to do? Stop playing D&D and live our lives rooted in the reality of Earth and all of it's uselessness?
Ummmm.....okay. Lets all hate 1 mooned worlds....
Grrrr....
Sorry, I'm just not feeling it.
While I'm not a big fan of 4th edition from what I've heard of it, nor of the changes to the Realms, this is just flat out wrong. Forgotten Realms is still a distinct setting from the Core implied setting, and if plans don't change, Eberron will be detailed next year. That having been said, I don't know how much they will be adding elements of "unsupported" settings into the implied Core world.
Eberron will probably turn out to be another continent ont he same world as faerun.
Just wait....by the time 5th edition rolls around or 4.5 or what have you, they will decide that somehow all of these worlds are one in the same. Jump a ship from Greyhawk across the ocean to the realms.
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Just wait....by the time 5th edition rolls around or 4.5 or what have you, they will decide that somehow all of these worlds are one in the same. Jump a ship from Greyhawk across the ocean to the realms.
Funny, when we FIRST started out (many, many moons ago) that's how we had the world set up. Greyhawk on one continent, FR on another, the Known World on another, Dragonlance somewhere else...
Kinda silly, but we had fun. :)
I attatched Kara-Tur to Greyhawk way back when, so I know what you mean.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The world will have a name:
Forgotten Greyhawk of the Eberron-Mystara Realms!
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I heard the Rouse whispering it in my mind to the fluffy pink warforged-bunny that looks like the Lovechild of Iuz and the Simbul...
Nah that's too long. We will call this land... This Land!
Nah that's too long. We will call this land... This Land!
You don't think this is a bit to specific? We wouldn't want to stifle anyones homegame now.
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Nah that's too long. We will call this land... This Land!You don't think this is a bit to specific? We wouldn't want to stifle anyones homegame now.
Yeah, that might disenfranchise players who want to run sea-based games. How about The Place...or Not? I think that would cover just about everything, wouldn't it?
The more I hear about what they're doing to the game and the settings I've enjoyed for decades, the more angry and disappointed I feel. I really used to respect WotC, but even the changes that have been "officially" announced go too far in my opinion.
Oh, well. At least my family won't have to budget for many D&D products after the change...that is, of course, unless Paizo decides to stick with 3.5 (but that's for another thread).
As far as I'm concerned its okay to have a generic, undefined world with drag-and-drop modular elements to it. Most pick-up games of D&D are like that anyway, and there is something seriously to be said for the gamemaster not having to educate his players with reams of exposition to have them understand the most basic plot points.
I don't really have a problem with poaching elements of more defined settings, either. I'm not a fan of the Realms, but there are elements of it that I've appropriated for my homebrew settings, and I'm currently working on a setting that heavily uses warforged from Eberron even though it has almost nothing else from that setting.
I just look at this as "alternate continuity" which is more or less what its always supposed to be. Just because there are DMs out there playing pastiche worlds glomming bits of everybody else's doesn't have to diminish the "official" continuity of those worlds. TV and movies do it all the time. Sure, you can say that "Abbott and Costello Meet the Wolfman" and "The Monster Squad" were offenses against Bram Stoker's novel "Dracula," but I really don't see the harm.
Robilar still unleashed Iuz in Oerth. Elminster and Drizzt still walk the roads of Faerun. The Heroes of the Lance still defeated Takhisis in Krynn. If they also make non-continuity crossover appearances in some Team-Up project, is this some kind of heresy?
How will the Gnomes be killed off? I am actually looking forward to that one.
Sorry to burst you're bubble...but gnomes aren't killed off. They are becoming a "monster".
Get your facts right before posting.
I attatched Kara-Tur to Greyhawk way back when, so I know what you mean.
There was this map in one of the Dragon annuals doing just that - southwest of the Amedio Jungle, IIRC. And somewhere I saw a fan-made map that integrated the Flanaess into Mystara - I think on one of the not much defined eastern continents, east of Alphatia.
Stefan
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Nah that's too long. We will call this land... This Land!
This might offend Fans of Stephen R. Donalsons Thomas Convenant the Unbeliever.
But we can call it:
Patchworkia!
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So, they aree putting the isle of dread in another world then mystara - how dare they do something that wrong and original - if I had seen such an attempt before I'd really be pissed of and would no doubt ignore the company in question.(irony!)
Sorry - I do not want to participate in the flame war that sometimes seems to keep these boards in its grip (actually I'm a 4th ed. sceptic myself) but the whole point of WotC "starting" to mix elements of different settings/adventures togetehr in their new core world and thus violatig "true D&D" always striked me as a bit ridiculous. This was a practice from the very beginning of the game and that they continue to do so while still working on distinct settings like the Forgotten Realms and Ebberon make me hope that - even if it might not be the ruleset of my choice - 4th ed. still will be an adaptable set of rules.
I must've missed your posts of outrage back when Paizo tried shoe-horning the Isle of Dread into the World of Greyhawk.
Still, this is a breath of fresh air. I was tired of hearing from all the posters who are upset about WotC dropping all the iconic fluff from D&D. It's about time I heard someone complain that they were putting in too much iconic fluff.
By loose estimate, there are 550 boggzijillion players of 3.5 D&D who don't use the deities listed in the Players Handbook. If you're unhappy with the assumed setting of the new Players Handbook, you could just not use it. Or only use the parts that match your setting.
As an aside, there was a poster at the WotC boards a while back who made an art project out of combining all of TSRs settings (from Forgotten Realms to Mystara to Eberron to Birthright) all on one planet.
It was awesome.
Let me see if I can't find a link for it.
How will the Gnomes be killed off? I am actually looking forward to that one.
Sorry to burst you're bubble...but gnomes aren't killed off. They are becoming a "monster".
Get your facts right before posting.
To Antoine7, who I am assuming is a girl, you need to get your "Facts of Life" right before posting.
Fact #1: "The Facts of Life" aired from 1979 - 1989.
Fact #2: It was one of the longest running sitcoms of the 1980's.
Fact #3: The name of the girls school where the characters lived was called Eastland, and the headmistress was named "Mrs. Garrett".
Fact #4: Here is the Cast:
Charlotte Rae - Mrs. Edna Garrett (1979-1986)
Pamela Segall - Kelly Afinado (1983-1984)
Mackenzie Astin - Andy Moffett (1985-1988)
Molly Ringwald - Molly Parker (1979-1980)
Maylo McCaslin - Played Jessica Stuart on the 80's cable show
Nancy McKeon - Nancy played Jo on the Facts of Life for almost all of the show's run.
Kim Fields - Kim played Tootie for the entire running of The Facts of Life.
Cloris Leachman - Beverly Ann Stickle (1986-88)
Lisa Whelchel - Blair Warner
Mindy Cohn - Mindy played Natalie the entire series
George Clooney - George the Handy-Man (I am Batman!)
Sherrie Krenn - Pippa - I think it was the final season
Felice Schacter - Nancy (1979-1987)
Julie Anne Haddock - Cindy
Julie Piekarski - Sue Ann
Fact #5: This information was copied from www.retrojunk.com.
Fact #6: You are the true "monster", and I believe that you are the one responsible for the future destruction of the Gnome race. How dare you?!
How will the Gnomes be killed off? I am actually looking forward to that one.
Sorry to burst you're bubble...but gnomes aren't killed off. They are becoming a "monster".
Get your facts right before posting.
Sooooo ... if they're becoming 'monsters' ... then they'll be getting killed off in all sorts of creative ways, right? I mean, what DM or player wouldn't love the "Caves of the Dire Gnomes" or the "Ancient Vale of Gnomecanth" or somesuch?
Me? I'll STILL be a gnome-slaying fiend ... in any edition less than 4. Pity it took them this long to make gnomes something other than a cutesy PC race.
;)
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The thing that upsets me is not that they are mixing various setting elements.
That might or might not work, we will see.
What bothers me to no end is that it is so damn lazy of them.
How easy is it to come up with a generic fit all playing styles setting?
Even if they had renamed the Gods and called the Isle of Dread the Isle of Darknes and the ToEE the Temple of the Abyssal Lords it would have been ok with me.
yes .... and THEN we KILL THEM !!!! HUZZZAHHHH !
Sorry to burst you're bubble...but gnomes aren't killed off. They are becoming a "monster".Get your facts right before posting.
YES! THAT IS THE SPIRIT!
It just hit me in the head like a diamond d20 that Antoine7 has been right all along. The Gnomes ARE monsters. In fact, they always were little, dirty, creepy, disgusting monsters who weren't good enough to be Dwarves. Now, I will buy D&D 4.0, but it won't be to explore some stupid, pointless, nameless "world" that the Hasbro game designers were too lazy to name...and too lazy to make more than one sun and moon...
Oh no...I'm playing D&D 4.0 to bust me up some GNOME!
THE ONLY GOOD GNOME IS A DEAD GNOME!
DEATH TO THE GNOMES! DEATH TO THE GNOMES! DEATH TO THE GNOMES!
If I'm not mistaken, I heard that gnomes would be printed as a race in the 4e Eberron setting, and probably in the 4e Forgotten Realms too.
On the same token, they aren't saying "you can't have multi-mooned worlds". They're just saying for simplicity's sake, the non-specified core world, there's just one sun and one moon.
We still don't know much about 4e. I suggest waiting until the WHOLE product is out in front of you before you start making your assessments.
Just wait....by the time 5th edition rolls around or 4.5 or what have you, they will decide that somehow all of these worlds are one in the same. Jump a ship from Greyhawk across the ocean to the realms.
There will be no 4.5. It was said a long time ago.
I'm with the above poster who's actually excited for a boundary-less realm for the modules and such to live in. I think it's a bit tacky that this world doesn't have a name at all--which will make it kind of hard for PCs to talk meaningfully about it.
"All of...*psst where are we again?*...will tremble at the destruction I have wrought!"
Yeah. Not a fan of that. It seems like it is one place, since it will clearly be defined by a lot of it's constituent modules, and no matter how deeply entrenched in a dark age you are, the points of light will never grow so dim you don't know what PLANET you're on.
Likewise while I absolutely love that this place has become the new home for all the stuff from earlier editions that didn't have a home, that just floated nameless and unloved through the ether, or got plunked at random into various worlds where it didn't belong--I do not love that they are seemingly into ripping off stuff from different settings and works of fiction to glob them into their core setting. It just messes up a great idea by turning it into a morass of contradictory junk.
Whether they sell it this way or not, here's my sell on 4e. It's a brand new world with no connection to other setting IP. Therein live all the various orphan products created with no foundation in any established setting. The Exemplars of Evil live here, amid the cities from Cityscape and the Fantastic Locations (like poor poor Dragondown Grotto). Temple of Elemental Evil? Sorry, but that's in Greyhawk. Silverymoon? No way. Hobbiton, taken. Rumors of the existance of these places may be explained away simply as travellers' tales. Nobody knows WHAT exists over those hills. Temple of Elemental Evil? Pshaw...you're just looking for a free beer.
There will be no 4.5. It was said a long time ago.
And we're supposed to believe them because??
Have they given much reason to doubt them? and before you say it, they never said they would not come out with a 4th edition.
Of course, I'm biased...
Just wait....by the time 5th edition rolls around or 4.5 or what have you, they will decide that somehow all of these worlds are one in the same. Jump a ship from Greyhawk across the ocean to the realms.There will be no 4.5. It was said a long time ago.
I know,I read that as well. The point was distrust and overall silliness of WOTC in my opinion. To say it politely, my faith in WOTC is lacking.
Just wait....by the time 5th edition rolls around or 4.5 or what have you, they will decide that somehow all of these worlds are one in the same. Jump a ship from Greyhawk across the ocean to the realms.There will be no 4.5. It was said a long time ago.
HAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
And you believe Wizards now? Choke...sputter...heehee.
If Ed Greenwood was incharge, he'd have developed some of the undeveloped land mass on Toril (Forgotten Realms's planet) instead of advancing the timeline 100 years.
Thank GOD he is NOT in charge.
Being a big Greyhawk fan for 25 years, I can empathize with you Forgetable Realms fans who are suffering your first "back seat" treatment from our friends at WoTC. Do any of you view this as an opportunity to move on to a "brave new world"?
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Being a big Greyhawk fan for 25 years, I can empathize with you Forgetable Realms fans who are suffering your first "back seat" treatment from our friends at WoTC. Do any of you view this as an opportunity to move on to a "brave new world"?
I could only wish they would leave FR alone and let it take a back seat to whatever crazy stuff they want to do. Unfortunately, they've decided that the name is worth a lot and the name will attract new players (even though it apparently has this very bad reputation at the same time) to a setting this is so different from what current fans consider the Forgotten Realms that it might as well be a whole new setting.
Even though this isn't what WotC are really doing, I've decided that they simply announced an end to campaign support for the Forgotten Realms. I will carry on as though that were the case. For all intents and purposes - mine, anyway - that is what has happened.
While I prefer FR I have, over the years (just like many others, I suspect) played in Greyhawk, Mystara, Krynn, and several "homebrew" campaign worlds. I will carry on as I ever have with the above rationalization firmly in place. :)
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Nah that's too long. We will call this land... This Land!The world will have a name:
Forgotten Greyhawk of the Eberron-Mystara Realms!
Quote?
I heard the Rouse whispering it in my mind to the fluffy pink warforged-bunny that looks like the Lovechild of Iuz and the Simbul...
"I think we should call it your grave!"
"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal! Ahg! Oh, God!"
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Ummmm.....okay. Lets all hate 1 mooned worlds....
I think the rest of Leafar's post was more poignant than the snippet you're quoting. The idea of reducing the work that went into the campaigns in the past (including, for those of the audience who believe the Realms and Greyhawk were too drowned in backstory) the new kid on the block: Eberron. A lot of work and WotC focus went into developing Eberron as the heir apparent to the core world throne, and I believe that Leafar was simply pointing out the drastic change that will be sweeping elements from all the published WotC worlds and combining the mish-mash into one. But that's just my read on his post.
Just wait....by the time 5th edition rolls around or 4.5 or what have you, they will decide that somehow all of these worlds are one in the same. Jump a ship from Greyhawk across the ocean to the realms.There will be no 4.5. It was said a long time ago.HAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
And you believe Wizards now? Choke...sputter...heehee.
Yes, I do believe WotC now. But, as I said before, I have a strong bias on the subject. ;)
I find it much easier to be interested in Paizo's campaign setting than to worry about the WotC ones these days, as you might imagine.
Oh, and Golarion has only one moon, so I'm afraid we offer little respite on that front.
Yes, but you have PLANETS. When will the info on Golarion astrology be released? I know one of you has to be working on it. ;)
Ummmm.....okay. Lets all hate 1 mooned worlds....I think the rest of Leafar's post was more poignant than the snippet you're quoting. The idea of reducing the work that went into the campaigns in the past (including, for those of the audience who believe the Realms and Greyhawk were too drowned in backstory) the new kid on the block: Eberron. A lot of work and WotC focus went into developing Eberron as the heir apparent to the core world throne, and I believe that Leafar was simply pointing out the drastic change that will be sweeping elements from all the published WotC worlds and combining the mish-mash into one. But that's just my read on his post.
Yes, Russlilly, only you truly understand. The destruction of the Gnomes is but an afterthought of the D&D Apocolypse to come (let me note here that killing all of the Gnomes is a good thing). I predict that ALL of the former D&D worlds (Eberron, the Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Birth Right, etc...) will fall to the sword of the D&D 4.0 design team. They will take what they like, and stick it somewhere on the Nameless World. The rest will face Annihilation! They probably won't even allow some other company to take it over. They will keep the rights to those worlds just because they can! Will someone please create another fantasy RPG, so I will not be forced to buy D&D 4.0?
(By the way, I know there are a lot of other fantasy RPG's out there, but I am just being dramatic. I am hoping that a Pathfinder RPG will be made after the D&D Apocolypse.)
Having PLANETS means all of us oldtime Spelljammer fans have hope that we can put in that setting into Golarion. Having desert wastes means we can put the creepy insectile creatures from Dark Sun. Having Tian Xia means I can put the clans from Legend of the Five Rings or the Celestial Bureaucracy from Oriental Adventures in Golarion. Al'Qadim's Temple of a Thousand Gods would not be out of place no matter where I put it. Barovia and its Count doesn't feel too out of place in Golarion. Taladas and its minotaurs could well be beyond the western seas. Having "Ye Lands Unknowne" means we can play too in your world.
Having a place for the material we already have and places yet charted - Golarion is capturing that feel for me.
Sorry to burst you're bubble...but gnomes aren't killed off. They are becoming a "monster".How will the Gnomes be killed off? I am actually looking forward to that one.
I've had a couple of characters who, in-character, suspected gnomes of some sort of monstrous association--I mean, who gets spell-like abilities except demons and devils? Clearly, they long ago traded their stature to dark gods in exchange for eldritch powers. :)
I think you're partially correct. I'm willing to bet they'll do everything they can to excise the 1st and 2nd Edition "stigma" from the game by eliminating Greyhawk and The Realms. Planescape, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Spelljammer and Birthright are all, essentially dead and burried (at least officially) - only two of these were even present in 3.x.
However, Eberron is "their baby" - odds are it will be the "other world" they put out and split their attention between it and the PoL setting, maybe tossing out something else eventually to offer more variety.
This statement made me raise my eyebrow. The Forgotten Realms is the first campaign setting being updated for 4e. It will also be the first campaign setting available for 4e in the RPGA's "Living Forgotten Realms". Eberron won't be along until later.
Also, many of the other products mentioned were retired because they were diluting the market (too many settings reduces the profitability of all the settings). Spelljammer received a little bit of love in Dungeon/Polyhedron when it was updated for 3.0. Dark Sun, likewise, got the 3.5 treatment. Ravenloft was outsourced to White Wolf (Not to mention, there was also Expedition to Castle Ravenloft). Planescape was essentially the setting working under the core setting of all 3e, because a lot of the locations/races/stuff from Planescape could be found laced throughout the planar guides of 3e. Also, many of these worlds were given over to "fan-support" content sites, such as birthright.net or athas.org.
Dragonlance role-playing material was also outsourced, but the setting is still supported in piles upon piles of novels.
Finally, it's simply my opinion, but Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Birthright, and to a lesser extent, Planescape, were all either too esoteric or too vanilla for most player's tastes, which is why they are being put on the shelf, at least for the time being.
I've had a couple of characters who, in-character, suspected gnomes of some sort of monstrous association--I mean, who gets spell-like abilities except demons and devils? Clearly, they long ago traded their stature to dark gods in exchange for eldritch powers. :)Sorry to burst you're bubble...but gnomes aren't killed off. They are becoming a "monster".How will the Gnomes be killed off? I am actually looking forward to that one.
Absolutely, Welby Bumpus. Clearly, the Gnomes sold their souls to demons and devils in exchange for spell-like powers. The sooner they are destroyed the better. I am currently writing an "Against the Gnomes" series. Part one will be titled, "Slaughter of the Gnomes." Future modules will be titled "Extermination of the Gnomes," and finally, "Extinction of the Gnomes." Maybe I will throw in a "Castration of the Gnomes" just for fun.