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Well this is it. My pc's are ready to fight Demogorgon in Wat Dagon over the Shadow Pearl.They will face a weakend Demon Prince ,but not fully weakend. They were unable to kill Arendagrost ,who fled back to Absym to hide after one of the Pc's who was under Malcanthet's influence at the time betrayed them (they of course do not know about this)and warned him ahead of time on how powerful the Pc's had become,unable to kill them himself he fled awaiting his mother's signal to capture the crown and make her proud. In my game they also were suppossed to betray Bagromar after he killed Teradarian during there battle at Camp Gromsfed.,and kill him too.Betray'ns all a part o' piracey,if ya don't know that then your not even close to becomeing a pirate,pron o' my loins my foot. your mother's a bloody liar that's what I liked about her ,no woman ever slept with me and lived.(Yellowbeard 1983)
Give us a rundown of the upcoming battle! What is your party make up? How weak were they able to make Demogorgon? What condition is your group in currently? I think you may be the first to get to this point- definitely let us know how it goes.
Thinking ahead I'd like to give Demogorgon a larger reach. I have a PC with a 20' reach (an enlarged 1/2 orc with a spiked chain) that has a manuever from Bo9S that gives him an AoO when you move within his threatened area. I'd like Demogorgon to trip him, give him a taste of his own medicine.
My group is just entering Divided's Ire though, so we have a way to go yet. How did you like the two adventures that preceded the final one? I am a little hesitant to use them and have been thinking about changing it up a bit.
Sorry for jumping off topic a bit, just typing as I think here.
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Give us a rundown of the upcoming battle! What is your party make up? How weak were they able to make Demogorgon? What condition is your group in currently? I think you may be the first to get to this point- definitely let us know how it goes.
Thinking ahead I'd like to give Demogorgon a larger reach. I have a PC with a 20' reach (an enlarged 1/2 orc with a spiked chain) that has a manuever from Bo9S that gives him an AoO when you move within his threatened area. I'd like Demogorgon to trip him, give him a taste of his own medicine.
My group is just entering Divided's Ire though, so we have a way to go yet. How did you like the two adventures that preceded the final one? I am a little hesitant to use them and have been thinking about changing it up a bit.
Sorry for jumping off topic a bit, just typing as I think here.
Ok Did I mention that I photocopied the Wat Dagon map and blew it up to 1 inch squares!!!!!Did I mention that my friend made a Gargantuan Demogorgon!!!!!!!Did I mention that he also made all the wall's of Wat Dagon out of Foam!!!!!! The Final Battle in 3 -D character deaths should be dramatic...We may have pictures up of this soon on you tube ,the same way we did our final Age of Worms battle.Now for a few of your questions. The weakend him 3 out of 5 ways more or less. Our party or there's is Lord Darius a ledgendary leader Dragon shaman.his cohort Grace a combat medic demon wreaker.Skellthane Seabeard an Arch Mage.August Simons The IX a factotum .Mad Roger Rackham >>>Pirate. and Solaris a gated in Olman Solar.One of my Pc's used Reach and Trip alot too, but I gave him a taste of his own meds using a Balor (they have nearly the same feats)So I feel for ya on that one!!!!
Sounds AWESOME! How did your friend make a gargantuan Demogorgon? WE WANT PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!
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Sounds AWESOME! How did your friend make a gargantuan Demogorgon? WE WANT PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!
He made it out of molding clay I think. It looks like a 2 headed aquadic Scrag. (Or sea troll) more than a Baboon. Hard to make the snout's. But that was cool with me how it turned out.It's painted like the picture on the Final Dungeon cover!!!!Yes I will try to get some pictures for everyone!!!!!
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ok here is a few links to Demogorgon's pictures.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00081.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00082.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00083.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00084.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00085.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00086.jpg
That's awesome!
So did they fight him yet?
That's awesome!
So did they fight him yet?
We fought him last night; I'm sure that Rakshaka or I will post details as soon as we have more than a few moments at our computer.
The pictures look very cool. Great job. The party I DM is about to start Scuttlecove so we have lots of Demon fun to encounter before we get to this part in a few months.
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We did it! The Prince of Demons is dead, slain in an Epic battle fought through the halls of Wat Dagon. We were able to weaken Demogorgon three steps down from his full power through our actions in the last module, and had just finished a horrific battle against St. Kargoth the Betrayer. We had one round before Demogorgon, Gargantuan sized, came trouncing through the Obyrith fortress, promising our deaths to be grisly and legendary. Here’s how the Prince of Demons was slain:
The Players: 1)Skelthane (Me) [Dwarf Wizard 13, Archmage 4, Demonwrecker 4, LG],
2)Lord Admiral Darius Saul, [Dragonborn Dragon Shaman 13/Fighter 4/Legendary Leader 5, LG]
3)Vorel "Grace" Troth, [Dragonborn Cleric 11/Combat Medic 5/Demonwrecker 4, LG]
4)August Simons X (his tenth incarnation), [Aasimar Factotum 20, NE…thanks to his deals with Malchanthet]
5) Mad Roger Rackham, Captain, [Human Swashbuckler/Ranger/Leviathan Hunter (18th level, he’s only been able to play through half the campaign), CN]
6)Solaris, gated in Solar ran with standard array of memorized spells from his stat block.
[Surprise Round] Demogorgon achieves surprise by Gating into the center of the complex where the pearl had been moved. We are all still mainly in the gatehouse area where Ghorvash and Kargoth savaged us, so he still had a fair amount of range between us Unfortunately, The Master Pearl revealed itself within the chamber next to him, as he lobbed a quickened, area Greater Dispel Magic, catching about half of us. His second activation, he used telekinesis to swallow The Pearl and throw another quickened, area Greater Dispel Magic, again hitting about half of us. (He gets my Moment of Prescience, which I was going to use for Initiative and Death Ward…boo.)
[Initiative Order] 1- August Simons X (34), 2- Demogorgon (31), 3- Solar (24), 4- Skelthane (15), 5- Darius and Grace (15), 6- Stuff that followed Demogorgon through the gate (13, see below), 7) Nulonga…I hate this guy (7)
[Round 1] August attempts to test the waters by firing an arrow from the Nimbus Bow (using Shot on the Run) at Big D, hitting AC 47… a miss. Our jaws drop a little, and then Demogorgon goes. He uses Project Image, putting his visage is the Gatehouse so he can see us all, then hurls a quickened Feeblemind at the Solar, trying to nullify his powerful and still mostly unused Spell-like abilities as well as turning the only creature with weapons capable of bypassing his DR into a slavering beast. The Solar makes his save, so on Demogorgon’s second activation, he does it again…and fails to beat the Solar’s Spell Resistance. He then lobs a targeted, Dispel Magic at August as he sees the mark of Malchanthet on him which puts him into a murderous rage. Finally, he summons 30 HD of demons to his side, including a Balor and a Bar-Lgura. The Solar recasts Righteous Wrath and moves toward the chamber with Demogorgon and the Gate he came through, where he sees a number of Dretches making their way through, as well as other things following suite. He relays this telepathically, and Darius realizes that the final battle is at hand. He sends a Quaal’s bird token through the outer gates to Celeste, hoping for reinforcements while Grace casts Lion’s Roar, destroying the Dretches and slightly injuring the Balor, not overcoming Big D’s SR. Skelthane double moves to get closer to Big D and the gate, using a charge from his Belt of Battle to also pull a scroll of Mordenkainen’s Disjunction. To the party’s entire horror and anger, Nulonga suddenly rose from one of the countless bodies in the complex…again. The Solar had already attempted to Imprison him earlier, which we were certain had worked. He truly is unkillable, and made it his sole purpose to harry my Wizard. He lobbed another Greater Dispel Magic at me, which got half eaten up by the remaining three charges from my Rod of Absorption. Roger stops looting one of the rooms and joins the fight. We begin round 2…
[Round 2] Sensing the Demon Prince’s imminent wrath, August Disintegrates one of the walls separating the Gatehouse from the inner halls, seeking cover within. To our shock and horror, (I’m gonna use that phrase a lot in this), the Demon Prince quickened Teleports into our midst (DM gave it to him 1/day instead of a couple of Spell-likes…I would have too) and proceeds to lay into August. Despite his cover in the hall, Demogorgon’s reach and attack bonus is prodigious, and he hits the AC 50-something every time. August makes his rot saves…barely. For his second activation, he Whirlwind attacks, striking 4 out of 6 PCs with his rotting tentacles. Everyone makes their save except the Solar, who takes 7 con damage. August has 3 hit points remaining. He then launches another quickened Feeblemind at the Solar, who fortunately passes. Demogorgon then appears to falter slightly as something telepathic passes between him and the proxy of his former lover, August. Whatever it is, he appears to instantly weaken, giving us renewed hope, at least for a second. The Balor proceeds to launch a Firestorm, having little effect due to evasion or resistance while the monkey lobs a Dispel, having little effect. The Solar casts Divine Power and retreats to a ranged vantage point. Darius, our tank, melee attacks Demogorgon, hitting in the low 50s with a high die roll…a miss. Our nerve falters slightly at this point, and Grace and Darius retreat to the inner halls rather than stand toe to toe with him. Darius suffers about four attacks of opportunity and is severely weakened, though he makes his saves against the rot. Grace readies for August to get to them, as she took only one good hit escaping and can still pull a spell. Skelthane lobs his Scroll of Mordenkainen’s Disjunction at the Gate and the summoned Demons, eliminating them as well as hurling a quickened greater Dispel Magic of his own at the Big D, eliminating all of the potion buffs that he had drunk (hence the ridiculous AC; he is an item creation master). Nulonga hits me with another targeted Greater Dispel, dropping all but about six spells (Ghostform and Conviction being the two best) as well as a quickened Displacement. Finally, Roger moves into flanking position near Big D, attempting to setup for an acrobatic charge. Whew! Round 3!
Round 3] August moves back to Grace and attempts to end the fight by using his Abduction of Ahazu ability, transporting Big D to the Wells of Darkness. It doesn’t work, but Grace blankets herself and August in a protective Prismatic Sphere. Celeste arrives on the scene at this point, right next to the Prince of Demons…alas, she lived through three adventure paths only to get pasted ignobly in a single full attack. Her presence causes Demogorgon to falter nonetheless as he realizes we are the ones that brought Obox-ob to his realm to challenge him, weakening him another step (We suddenly realize that our first blows against him were against his fully powered version. He was weakening by visible steps in combat, which I though worked better cinematically than having him weakened all at once). He then utilized his shapechange to change forms and pursue back into the main room where he appeared. The Solar tested the waters again by letting loose a barrage of arrows against Big D, missing every shot. Darius and Grace healed themselves and August with quickened abilities while Grace immerged from the Sphere and struck Demogorgon with a Maximized Moon-Bolt, dealing 10 points of strength damage. Darius followed suit, breathing his breath weapon upon him, dealing the first real damage. Skelthane moves and pulls another scroll of Mordenkainen’s Disjunction and moves, lobbing a Spell-Smited, quickened, sonic-substituted Scorching Ray at Big D, only to fail SR. Rackam attempts to charge and flank with Darius, only to miss. Finally, Nulonga attempts to hit me with a Stone to Flesh, which I pass, and a Quickened Magic Missle, which is stopped by a Shield spell. Round 4!!
Round 4] August continues to stay in the Prismatic Sphere, healing himself. Demogorgon then unleashes his fury on the closest targets as we keep moving around, trying to get his heads to split their focus like our armies did. He full attacks the Sunblade-wielding Rackham, dropping him to –6 while, spending the rest of his attacks to lay into Darius, though he misses a couple of hits. He then Shapechanges back to Gargantuan sized and hurls his last quickened Greater Dispel at Grace, dropping more protective wards. He reels from a fist shaped scar suffered his fight against Orcus, as he weakens one final step from full power. The Solar maneuvers over to Rackham, burning his Mass Heal to bring him back from the brink, while Darius full attacks Big D, finally scoring two hits. 100 damage is dealt…60 after DR, as nothing in the entire campaign allows you to break through this. Grace Heals Darius, while Skelthane is forced to ready a Targeted Dispel to counter Nulonga’s incessant casting. Rackham tumbles up and away from Big D, buying himself a round.
Round 5] August continues to heal himself within the confines of the sphere, while Demogorgon unleashes his further rage. He full attacks twice, splitting his wrath between Darius, Rackham, Grace and the Solar equally. Significant damage is dealt, enough that only a Mass Heal will get everyone back. The Solar moves back from Rackham, shooting Demogorgon with an arrow that misses. Darius returns a full attack back to big D, missing every time, which forces Grace to attempt to Greater Dispel on Big D to drop his remaining enchantments. She succeeds, and then uses her boots of Temporal Acceleration to back away, heal, and dismiss the Prismatic Sphere. Skelthane goes on the offensive finally, and casts Assay Spell Resistance on Big D followed up by a Maximized Sphere of Ultimate Destruction, which immediately disintegrated Nulonga, stopping him for a round. Rackham charges back in, missing again, though it sets him up for a flank with Darius.
Round 6] Shapechange still obviously active on Big D, Malchanthet, using August as her proxy, attempts to Greater Dispel Big D’s last spell and succeeds. August himself attempts to Disintegrate Demogorgon, which fails to do so thanks to SR. Seeing his ex-lover’s boyfriend before him, he refocuses his hate on August, Full attacking him and then using Power Word Stun to render him helpless. Fortunately, Demogorgon actually misses for the first time…twice. August is still barely standing, but in big trouble. Darius retaliates, striking once but dropping his weapon in a series of swings. Grace heals August slightly, while Skelthane redirects his Sphere unto Demogorgon. He rolls a natural 1 and takes 252 damage. I consider readying a Wish for the retaliation that is sure to come, until Rackham scores a grievous wound with his SunBlade, dealing slightly more than Darius had previously. Further distracting him is the Solar, who scores two good hits, which not only break through his DR but also force him to save or die. Nulonga reappears…I hate this guy.
Round 7]August uses his Ring of Telekenesis to return Darius’s weapon to his hands, while Demogorgon surprises us using his first act to Heal himself, while his second act is to full attack the Solar. Death, as he reduces him to a pile of gooey feathers when he fails his saves against both rotting tentacles and the subsequent –12 Con (on top of the other –7) kills him. Big D’s cleave attempt and secondary attacks also do their toll on Rackham, dropping him into the negatives again. Darius full attacks again, scoring one hit for another 30 damage, while Grace uses a Ranged Heal to bring Rackham back. Seeing Nulonga again, I hurl a Sonic Substitued Chain Lightning at him and Big D, affecting both but not dropping Nulonga. He responds with a Feeblemind, which I fortunately pass, while my Black Sphere of Death continues eating away at Big D for 30 a round. Rackham again spends the round manuvering from Big D.
Round 8]August throws another Disintegrate, chipping away further at the Demon Prince. Realizing that he had actually been hit by this mortal pests, Big D recasts Unholy Aura and throws his last Quickened Feeblemind at Darius. It should be noted that everyone had Protection from Evil up in this fight, making us immune to one of Big D’s gazes. Everyone rolled very well against the second gaze, so no Insanity, except for Rackham who only suffered it for one round (between round 4 and 5, and he rolled to attack the nearest creature, Big D. He was Healed the next round.) For Demogorgon’s second act, he launches a targeted Greater Dispel Magic at Darius, dropping some of his enchantments but keeping the most valuable (Heroe’s Feast, Death Ward, and Pro. Evil) Darius maneuvers slightly, and with the flank Roger provides, is able to score two hits, dealing another 60 damage. He takes another 30 from the Black sphere of death, while I lob a Sonic substituted Polar Ray at him, which fails SR. I use two charges from my Belt of Battle two launch a second one, this time passing SR and doing about 90 damage. Grace uses a ranged Dispel Evil to drop Big D’s Unholy Aura again while Rackham charges in for another attack, still missing. Finally…yep here comes Nulonga again, who I am determined to ignore at this point, as he hurls another Feeblemind, which I pass. Round 9!!!!
Round 9] Sensing victory, we all go on the offensive. August hurls another Disintegrate while Darius continues with a Full attack. Demogorgon recasts Unholy Aura, making an attack on him still a daunting task, and proceeds to full attack the person who he knows he can kill and stop a valuable flanking bonus, Rackham. He reduces Rackham to a bloody pulp, dropping him into the extreme negatives (-60 I think). Grace makes a risky move, suffering three attacks of Opportunity to launch a quickened Dispel Evil on Big D, dropping his protection again. I use Limited Wish to bring Rackham back to life and hurl a Quickened, Sonic-subbed Fireball at Big D, nickling him some more. He screams, “You cannot defeat me! I am the Prince of all Demons!!” I scream back “I am the Wind Dukes of Aaqa returned to destroy you, Demogorgon,” as the Sphere takes another 30 points of his life. Nulonga almost re-kills Rackham with a Magic Missle at his unconscious body, only to be stopped by a Close Wounds spell from Grace. Approaching round 10…
Round 10] August takes another 15 points of Big D’s life with another Disintegrate (Thank you Staff of Transmutation), while Demogorgon prepares to fight to the death. He full attacks Grace, killing her easily. Unfortunately for him, she had previously cast a spell called ‘Death Pact’ which managed to last through the three encounters without getting Dispeled. It’s magic activated, she is immediately True Resurrected. Demogorgon’s bravado wavers slightly at this and he prepares to escape, only to be Dimensionally Anchored by Iggwilv, who came out of nowhere to ‘save the day’. Apparently biding her time during the whole fight, she immerged at the opportune moment to ensure that the Demon Prince could not flee. “Now!” she commanded and with that, Darius struck true. He full attacked, scoring two solid blows and two critical hits. Before Damage reduction was applied, 400 damage was dealt, Dropping the Demon Prince into a pile of demonic parts, blood, ichor and bile. We screamed in triumph at our victory as Demogorgon, Prince of Demons, lay slain by the hands of Darius Saul. An incredible fight…everything I had hoped for in the path and more! My hats off to Greg Vaughan, James Jacobs, and everyone else who produced this fine adventure path; it was a blast to play through and thoroughly challenging all the way to the end.
A thrilling recount
My God! That was one hell of a minute. Congratulations.
Wow, great write-up! Sounds like the final battle was as climactic as it should be - congrats!
I really like the idea of Big D's powers draining round after round instead of having him appear already weakened. My players have almost every splatbook at their disposal and a few house rules to boot, so I need to buff up certain encounters so that they remain suitably challenging. This is definitely one trick I'm likely to yoink. >: )
Awesome. Congratulations.
...
Are you all done with the AP? I hesitate to ask for fear of spoiling (in case you have another session to go), but ...
I've been waiting a long time for some one to post a good play by play of a final battle against big D. Thank you very much! Hopefully a few others will soon be able to post their own final battles with the prince of demons.
I forgot about the crown, which was also a fairly cool moment. Darius Saul dealt the killing blow to Demogorgon, causing the crown to appear and the interdiction zone to fail. At this point, Iggwilv, using a held action leaped forward and used the Flask to gather up Demogorgon's essence, instantly teleporting away (quickened I believe). I really wanted to stop her since our deal with Ahazu stated that we needed Demogorgon's essence alone to escape imprisonment in The Wells of Darkness. However, we were all too weakened to do much of anything about her, especially since Orcus, Grazz't, Bargomar, Belcheresk, Nulonga, and Arendagrost all suddenly appeared before the crown as well. Malchanthet "forced" August Simons X to go for the crown, yet since we were all in telepathich contact, Darius sensed his intentions and knew where his heart lay. Darius decided he had to stop his former friend from becoming something terrible, and so cast in his lot as well for the Crown. Since he had dealt the killing blow to Big D, he got the huge bonus and managed to make the highest roll...just barely. He beat Orcus by a total of 3, with everyone else trailing 5 to 20 points behind.
Darius had no intention of keeping the crown. While his legendary leader ability could let him automatically suceed on the Will save to not become Demogorgon, his character was too concerned about the material plane to deal with the wicked politics and brutalities of maintaining the crown. He coulldn't give it to Orcus because doing so would make him a god, while Grazz't was too closely tied to Iggwilv; she had suceeded in her plan and had used Demogorgon's essence to raise Thanaclan in a night, attempting to establish a new empire. This made the choice clear, and he gave it to none other than....
Zotzilla!!! Since the Isle of Dread is his stomping grounds and our characters all secretly revered the god (Half fire, half hate..He's gonna wipe you off his plate!), Darius believed that Zotzilla would be angered at the use of his Island, driving her from her new empire at the threat of its annihilation by fire. Iggwilv is powerful, but she is no match for a god, certainly not one with the further powers of a Demon Lord. I believe Zotzilla failed his saving throw the first month of his regieme, and is now known as Zotzilla/Comazozt, or rather, Comazoztilla! Half of him wants to gain worshippers to spread the use of fire while the other half wants to destroy everything with fire and magma. Oh well, there's really no "good" choice there since every demon lord who gets it is likely to either betray you or try to corrupt you to its purpose. At least with mortal (non-undead) worshippers, the Demon Lord has a vested interest in not destroying the material plane...at least until his hateful head comes up with some plan to merge his two heads into one.
Awsome! and the new prince was LOL!
I forgot about the crown, which was also a fairly cool moment.
Perfect! Perfect!
AWESOME!!! Thanx for the play by play and Congratulations It sounded like a lotta fun.
DAve
You win DnD. A winner is you.
We were all pretty pleased with the decision, in the end. There was definitely cheering, and we might have sung the Zotzilla theme song a bunch of times. I forget. ;)
Fantastic.
Couple of questions: If Demogorgon was weakened "3 steps," how was his AC still above 50? Also, why did the Gate he came through stay open? In the module, this is addressed. The Gate should have shut behind him.
Couple of questions: If Demogorgon was weakened "3 steps," how was his AC still above 50? Also, why did the Gate he came through stay open? In the module, this is addressed. The Gate should have shut behind him.
I think the quick answer to this is "DM Fiat". Now that our campaign is over, I've had the opportunity to look at Prince of Demons myself, and I noted that the Professor definitely changed some of the encounter as written. The big changes: D's AC stayed higher than it should have, the Gate was held open so that the possibility of more demons coming to aid was a real threat, AND despite the Gate remaining open, Gwyn never arrived on the scene to fight with us, either (though Celeste made a VERY brief appearance before getting annihilated). Additionally, Demogorgon began round one at full strength, and only weakened one step every round.
So why was our DM so "mean" to us? Simple: as written, we would have smeared Demogorgon up and down Wat Dagon without breaking a sweat. Many of us managed to keep the same character through the path without level loss -- with sidequests, this meant that Darius (my character) and Skelthane (Rakshaka's wizard) were somewhere around 23rd level at the time of the throwdown. All of us were equipment-optimized demon-killing machines, since we made sure to have a very good working relationship with the mercanes in the later parts of the module. Etc.
So I think that the Prof made the right call, ESPECIALLY with the weakening of one step each round. The first round, I made an good, solid attack on Demogorgon and missed, and my jaw hit the floor. "His AC is that high? We're screwed, fellas..." Then every time a "step" manifested (Malc's whispers, the wounds from Orcus reopening as he fought, etc), a cheer went up from the players. Honestly, it was one of the most tense, exciting, FUN encounters I've had the privilege of playing, and looking back, it was those tweaks that made all the difference.
So yeah, the Professor was sometimes harder on us than the module suggested (don't even get me started on Khala and the CoBI), but for good reason - the fun of a decent challenge. YMMV, as per usual.
Yeah, I've been wrestling with this myself. The group I DM is fast approaching PoD's. I've run this same group through the previous two AP's, and both times, I tweaked the BBEG's at the end, resulting in TPK's on both occasions. I vowed I would not alter a thing this time around, but as the time draws nigh, I'm beginnin to wonder if Demogorgon will be a cake walk if I play him as-is...
Yeah, I've been wrestling with this myself. The group I DM is fast approaching PoD's. I've run this same group through the previous two AP's, and both times, I tweaked the BBEG's at the end, resulting in TPK's on both occasions. I vowed I would not alter a thing this time around, but as the time draws nigh, I'm beginnin to wonder if Demogorgon will be a cake walk if I play him as-is...
I think the downgrading him round-by-round will work really well for you, even if that's the only thing you do. If he surprises you by being TOO effective on the first or second round, you can always elect to immediately apply ALL the weaknesses your players succeed at causing (and thus mitigate some of the problems).
Similarly, you can also hold Gwyn back a round or two and bring her in as last-minute help if needed, etc. As both a player and a DM, I think it's preferable to have a hard-fought victory for the players rather than a one-sided slaughter, whether that's by the PCs or the BBEG*.
(Though I know there are some Killer DMs out there that disagree with me! *grin*)
I think, from what I've read of your campaign journal, you need to give him some tweaks. Your party seems to be trouncing the opposition of late, and though I imagine you don't want a TPK, I'm sure you do want him to give them the fight of their lives.
Yeah, I've been wrestling with this myself. The group I DM is fast approaching PoD's. I've run this same group through the previous two AP's, and both times, I tweaked the BBEG's at the end, resulting in TPK's on both occasions. I vowed I would not alter a thing this time around, but as the time draws nigh, I'm beginnin to wonder if Demogorgon will be a cake walk if I play him as-is...
I think, from what I've read of your campaign journal, you need to give him some tweaks. Your party seems to be trouncing the opposition of late, and though I imagine you don't want a TPK, I'm sure you do want him to give them the fight of their lives.
True, and I've been considering several options. The idea of having him decrease in power round by round is very appealing. My plan is also to start Prince of Demons on a countdown clock, ie, the group has one day to complete the entire thing. This way, asset management will be key for the PC's so they haven't blown everything by the time the meet Big D. Ellequa, how did your DM handle this?
If I go that route, I'll have to ultimately gauge the final battle base on what resources the PC's have left. I've thought about his "30 HD worth of summoned demons" as being one advanced balor. Also, he should have two Gate spells left, by which I'm thinking about him bringing in one or two more clones, identical to Bagromar and Tetradarian. All of this will affect my decision about having Gwy present or not.
My plan is also to start Prince of Demons on a countdown clock, ie, the group has one day to complete the entire thing. This way, asset management will be key for the PC's so they haven't blown everything by the time the meet Big D. Ellequa, how did your DM handle this?
We pretty well knew, going into Wat Dagon, that it was all-or-nothing from there on out. It made the fight with Kargoth more interesting, as we knew we needed to conserve some of our bigger spells for Big D (the glab, IIRC, didn't put up much of a fight - we either held him or hit him with a CL24 Holy Word, and as such he didn't get much action at all before he was wasted). We also had our own gated in help (a Solar), which helped balance things out.
If your PCs have successfully navigated the Bag/Tetra issue, I'd shy away from bringing in another clone -- it would make me feel like all that work was for nothing. Instead, I'd go with Belcheresk, the Balor captain of D's navy, who would be perfect as an advanced Balor or one with associated class levels.
My plan is also to start Prince of Demons on a countdown clock, ie, the group has one day to complete the entire thing. This way, asset management will be key for the PC's so they haven't blown everything by the time the meet Big D. Ellequa, how did your DM handle this?We pretty well knew, going into Wat Dagon, that it was all-or-nothing from there on out. It made the fight with Kargoth more interesting, as we knew we needed to conserve some of our bigger spells for Big D (the glab, IIRC, didn't put up much of a fight - we either held him or hit him with a CL24 Holy Word, and as such he didn't get much action at all before he was wasted). We also had our own gated in help (a Solar), which helped balance things out.
If your PCs have successfully navigated the Bag/Tetra issue, I'd shy away from bringing in another clone -- it would make me feel like all that work was for nothing. Instead, I'd go with Belcheresk, the Balor captain of D's navy, who would be perfect as an advanced Balor or one with associated class levels.
Did you guys have time to rest between all the preliminary battles and Wat Dagon?
I've actually had another thought about the use of D's Gate...Demodragon!! He's statted out in Dungeon 147 as a CR 21. Might be a nice bit of poetic justice there.
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I made my own weakness chart for Big D .Using the one they gave me in the adventure I just modified it a bit. I may also have let Big D use his create any magic item feat or power he has listed.I may have let him use some potions to buff him before the fight. Nothing to crazy just PHB and the DMG. When I was reading the boxed text stuff ,I left the gate open only for visual effect,I wanted them to see his twin towers up close.No real reason other than that.The last session before the final fight, I asked my Pcs how much damage they could do to a demon. I also asked how high there total attack was vs a demon.ect ect hoping to not give away the fact I was guageing there power.In the end here is what I wanted ,1st round 18 ,19, 20 will hit Big D.2nd round 15 thru 20 will hit him.By the 3rd round 11 or higher.Something like that.My Pcs also had every splat book open to use in the path.I was trying to see what rules worked and were broken, which will help me run my next game much more fluid.I very much wanted a 10 round fight and I got it.And changing things in the adventures you run is all the joy of being a DM and sayin screw you guys I'm goin home..LOL
Couple of questions: If Demogorgon was weakened "3 steps," how was his AC still above 50? Also, why did the Gate he came through stay open? In the module, this is addressed. The Gate should have shut behind him.I think the quick answer to this is "DM Fiat". Now that our campaign is over, I've had the opportunity to look at Prince of Demons myself, and I noted that the Professor definitely changed some of the encounter as written. The big changes: D's AC stayed higher than it should have, the Gate was held open so that the possibility of more demons coming to aid was a real threat, AND despite the Gate remaining open, Gwyn never arrived on the scene to fight with us, either (though Celeste made a VERY brief appearance before getting annihilated). Additionally, Demogorgon began round one at full strength, and only weakened one step every round.
So why was our DM so "mean" to us? Simple: as written, we would have smeared Demogorgon up and down Wat Dagon without breaking a sweat. Many of us managed to keep the same character through the path without level loss -- with sidequests, this meant that Darius (my character) and Skelthane (Rakshaka's wizard) were somewhere around 23rd level at the time of the throwdown. All of us were equipment-optimized demon-killing machines, since we made sure to have a very good working relationship with the mercanes in the later parts of the module. Etc.
So I think that the Prof made the right call, ESPECIALLY with the weakening of one step each round. The first round, I made an good, solid attack on Demogorgon and missed, and my jaw hit the floor. "His AC is that high? We're screwed, fellas..." Then every time a "step" manifested (Malc's whispers, the wounds from Orcus reopening as he fought, etc), a cheer went up from the players. Honestly, it was one of the most tense, exciting, FUN encounters I've had the privilege of playing, and looking back, it was those tweaks that made all the difference.
That's awesome, my regards to your GM for taking that route with the Big D. And a tip of my hat to the player's choice regarding what to do with the Crown as well, nicely done indeed!
I made my own weakness chart for Big D .Using the one they gave me in the adventure I just modified it a bit. I may also have let Big D use his create any magic item feat or power he has listed.I may have let him use some potions to buff him before the fight. Nothing to crazy just PHB and the DMG. When I was reading the boxed text stuff ,I left the gate open only for visual effect,I wanted them to see his twin towers up close.No real reason other than that.The last session before the final fight, I asked my Pcs how much damage they could do to a demon. I also asked how high there total attack was vs a demon.ect ect hoping to not give away the fact I was guageing there power.In the end here is what I wanted ,1st round 18 ,19, 20 will hit Big D.2nd round 15 thru 20 will hit him.By the 3rd round 11 or higher.Something like that.My Pcs also had every splat book open to use in the path.I was trying to see what rules worked and were broken, which will help me run my next game much more fluid.I very much wanted a 10 round fight and I got it.And changing things in the adventures you run is all the joy of being a DM and sayin screw you guys I'm goin home..LOL
My big question is still, did you allow the group to rest from the time they invaded Gaping Maw, or was it one mad dash to Wat Dagon?
We did it!...
I'd like to chime in and thank you for the interesting and exciting write up. I very much enjoyed reading it.
My big question is still, did you allow the group to rest from the time they invaded Gaping Maw, or was it one mad dash to Wat Dagon?
I believe we rested once, following the attack on Arendagrost and the destruction of the totem -- after that fight, the armies were able to move in and set up for the siege (and since sieges usually take a while, we figured we could afford the eight hours).
Once we moved against Wat Dagon, though, there was no more resting. So we fought Urbala, Ghorvash, Kargoth, that annoying sorcerer guy, and Big D back-to-back.
ok here is a few links to Demogorgon's pictures.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00081.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00082.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00083.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00084.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00085.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/strockrodan/DSC00086.jpg
hahahahaha HOLY S~&#
Wow! I'll bet that was a six-hour game session! What a fight!