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So would the males then bead, braid, etc. their beards? Spend hours in the bathroom primping, combing and getting the musty mushroom smell out?
Sorry, that's a bit silly, but I'm actually curious.
Unmarried male dwarves would go all out with the tight braids and beard-jewelry, but, just like in human marriages, once they got hitched, they'd really let themselves go and their beards would be all ratty and soot-stained.
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The first set had beards but those were the humorous ones. The other set had no beards.Okay Mr. Authority, try this link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/REAPER-Dark-Heaven-Miniature-Magda-Female-Dwarf_W0QQite mZ200189525648QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL080104235s2942
I don't see a beard on her.
I am not trying to be difficult. If people say they have one that's fine but I have yet to see one.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I don't see a beard on her.
Okay Mr. Authority, try REAPER Dark Heaven Miniature: Magda Female Dwarf
I concur with Crosswiredmind: REAPER miniatures don't show dwarfen women with beards. They all have enormous chests --I think REAPER's dwarfen women all float in platemail-- but no beards.
There were wacky things in 1st Edition, particularly when it came to gender. Can we just allow that dwarf-women-look-like-guys was one of them?
I don't see a beard on her.
What's the braided thing under her chin?
And then there is this, from Reaper:
http://www.reapermini.com/FigureFinder#detail/02719
It's hard fro me to see, given the angle of the photo, but it surely looks like there is a mustache (or some hideous flash). Too bad her arm obscures the chin.
While we remain on the topic, I suspect that modern minis do not produce many bearded female dwarves due to the difficulty in sculpting a female bearded dwarf. Mnay dwarven figures are rather andorgynous, and given the paint schemes and/or the names of the figures, some of these certainly seem to have been female bearded dwarves. Since I doubt you would accept the veracity of a figure without the proof of breasts (given the extreme variations in sculpture quality and the nature of dwarven anatomy, I doubt hip girth would even be accurate, much less acceptable to one with supremely high standards to accept a premise alien to one's mind), I have explicitly looked for miniatures explicitly described as female.
Many of those minis lack beards. But one must also remember that there are far fewer minatures production lines now than 20 years ago. During the 90's, many of these companies folded, and only in the past five years or so have we seen a rise in the use of minis in gaming. However, when I started gaming, there were dozens and dozens of miniatures companies, with even more variation in quality and offering than we see today.
On an aside, I heartily recommend the now-defunct Heartbreakers minatures line. They are incredibly detailed, being a tin alloy. The skeletons have cavities in their teeth! I wish I had bought more minis back then, but I was a poor painter then and didn't see the need. However, my friends often had an eclectic mix of minis, and I have seen with my own eyes at least two bearded female dwarves. Oters on these boards attest to that as well.
If you really want proof, go to a casters' forum and ask if any sculptors have ever created such minatures. I know a few have. To continue to deny the existence of such miniatures is simply pedantic and frankly, tiresome.
Perhaps you simply "forget" when I have asked you questions, or tried to understand your point of view, or tried to enter a dialogue with you, but you have repeatedly refused to acknowledge any point of view other than your own. It makes you a very frustrating poster, which is probably why you see a large number of jagged posts directed at you. I am beginning to suspect you merely like the attention and actually have little interest in taking part in a productive dialogue. I wish that weren't the case, but you are certainly free to do so. Best of luck.
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I don't see a beard on her.What's the braided thing under her chin?
And then there is this, from Reaper:
http://www.reapermini.com/FigureFinder#detail/02719
The thing under her chin is a Thor's hammer on a chain. The other figure has no beard either - I own that one.
I have been a miniature hound since 1975 and I have never seen a female bearded dwarf except the boobarians.
If you find one let me know.
I have been a miniature hound since 1975 ...
Ah, that explains it. Schnauzers are notoriously ill-tempered and contrary. I will admit I've never seen one type....
Dude - thanks for the disrespect.
Schnauzer! You're a schnauzer! Haaahahaahahahaaahahaaaaaa!
Like I said, the one I have (PROBABLY Magda) either has a beard or long, braided sideburns, depending on how you look at it (I painted it to resemble a beard)...
Maybe you should take a picture of it and post it.
Of course, I am certain some unnamed bad puppy would sniff at it and declare it has been painted wrong and obviously has no beard. :/
I have thought of contacting one of my old friends who has a bearded female mini, and seeing if he would take a picture of it, but I know does not have a digital camera or anything, and it really isn't worth my time to continue poking a dog intent on worrying a post.
He's a schnauzer! Ha! A schnauzer!
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Like I said, the one I have (PROBABLY Magda) either has a beard or long, braided sideburns, depending on how you look at it (I painted it to resemble a beard)...Maybe you should take a picture of it and post it.
Of course, I am certain some unnamed bad puppy would sniff at it and declare it has been painted wrong and obviously has no beard. :/
I have thought of contacting one of my old friends who has a bearded female mini, and seeing if he would take a picture of it, but I know does not have a digital camera or anything, and it really isn't worth my time to continue poking a dog intent on worrying a post.
He's a schnauzer! Ha! A schnauzer!
Did you read Lisa's post?
I would love to see which one it is.
BTW - do you realize that this is curiosity and not a challenge?
Didn't think so.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Perhaps, but he's a schnauzer who's right, at least on this topic.
Really, folks. REAPER minis, female dwarfs: no beards.
I have not seen beareded women dwarfs since 1st Edition, which also gave us limits on female strength, which considered the girdle of masculinity/femininity to be a cursed item, which presented the whore subtable; among other aspects that made you think that maybe the game had to work through some issues.
Really, folks. REAPER minis, female dwarfs: no beards.
I have not seen beareded women dwarfs since 1st Edition...
And Reaper is the only miniatures company in the world? Maybe Reaper no longer produces bearded female miniatures, but other companies have.
You yourself admit first edition showed female dwarves with beards. Several, if not the majority, of my miniatures date from the 80s. Some of them are fantastic, some are awful (in terms of quality and detail), but the 1980s was a heyday for miniatures, and there were lots of small compnaies that churned out a variety of unusual miniatures, many designed expressly to depict th eworld's most popular RPG - 1st edition AD&D, complete with bearded female dwarves.
Simply showing that Reaper does not produce bearded female dwarves does not prove no-one ever has. And given that more than one person has physically seen with their own eyes such things, you are essentially calling us liars or crazy.
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Really, folks. REAPER minis, female dwarfs: no beards.
I have not seen beareded women dwarfs since 1st Edition...
And Reaper is the only miniatures company in the world? Maybe Reaper no longer produces bearded female miniatures, but other companies have.
You yourself admit first edition showed female dwarves with beards. Several, if not the majority, of my miniatures date from the 80s. Some of them are fantastic, some are awful (in terms of quality and detail), but the 1980s was a heyday for miniatures, and there were lots of small compnaies that churned out a variety of unusual miniatures, many designed expressly to depict th eworld's most popular RPG - 1st edition AD&D, complete with bearded female dwarves.
Simply showing that Reaper does not produce bearded female dwarves does not prove no-one ever has. And given that more than one person has physically seen with their own eyes such things, you are essentially calling us liars or crazy.
Not saying you are a liar or crazy.
I am saying that I have never seen a female dwarf figure with a beard (aside from the boobarians) and would really actually like to see one.
As for 1E female dwarves having beards - I can't find that in the AD&D PHB, MM, or DMG. Where in 1E did they have beards?
Did you read Lisa's post?
Am I to take it that I am not living up to a talking dog's ideal of civility? Pray tell, how dost thou define civility, oh almighty moderator of all that is?
BTW - do you realize that this is curiosity and not a challenge?
I would love to see which one it is.
I presume here you are referring to the miniatures in question. Do not hesitate to correct me if that is not your intent.
I would too, but having never been a miniatures hound (correct use of language), I usually wouldn't know. I only accidentally began collecting miniatures, and though Reaper dominates the metal minis field in the US today, I recall Ral Partha was big in the 80s/90s, adn that there were numerous small production companies that never hit the big time.
BTW - do you realize that this is curiosity and not a challenge?
Didn't think so.
Yes, you presume to know my thoughts so well. I cannot hope to stand before your withering intellect (read that previous sentence closely; you may see more than one interpretation).
In closing, I leave you with a quote I found that perhaps will allow you open your mind and thoughts just a little bit, to concede some diversity of opinion and experience to those who are not you.
“Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created.”
As for 1E female dwarves having beards - I can't find that in the AD&D PHB, MM, or DMG. Where in 1E did they have beards?
I haven't got my 1st edition books with me currently, but I shall indeed look through them for some illuminating passages when I get the time. You may also peruse the art of Dragon magazine, as I am fairly certain the double digit numbers depicted bearded female dwarves more than once.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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And Reaper is the only miniatures company in the world? Maybe Reaper no longer produces bearded female miniatures, but other companies have.
You yourself admit first edition showed female dwarves with beards. Several, if not the majority, of my miniatures date from the 80s.
Simply showing that Reaper does not produce bearded female dwarves does not prove no-one ever has. And given that more than one person has physically seen with their own eyes such things, you are essentially calling us liars or crazy.
Calm down, Stick.
The original issue was upset and dismay over how 4th Edition dwarf women don't have beards. How could they turn their backs on such a rich tradition?!?
Several people here have said that dwarfen women wantonly showing us their seductive chins is not news. Making claims about 1st Edition doesn't address that point.
Someone cited the Magda mini as having a beard. It doesn't. Nobody ever claimed that no miniatures ever had a DWWB.
Am I calling you a liar, or crazy? Not my call.
Bingo! Thanks CEBrown; newer than I expected, and not one I have seen before, but:
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Bingo! Thanks CEBrown; newer than I expected, and not one I have seen before, but..Breasts and Beard.
(shrug) It's for a different game, but sure. I'll bet I can find Shadowrun miniatures of elves with laptops and cortical jacks, but what that has to do with 4th Edition D&D elves, I'm not sure.
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Bingo! Thanks CEBrown; newer than I expected, and not one I have seen before, but:
Yep - hackmaster dwarven women have beards. Hackmaster fits into that humorous category.
I am looking - and believe me I have googled quite a bit in my search - for a classic D&D mini that is a dwarf woman with a beard.
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Let me guess - you've never played it, have you?
Yep - hackmaster dwarven women have beards. Hackmaster fits into that humorous category.
Anything that does not serve the point is to be dismissed. Preferably with just enough scorn to make clear that it doesn't count as 'proof' of anything other than the low tastes of the person presenting the evidence. Some facts are just inconvenient.
"The original issue was upset and dismay over how 4th Edition dwarf women don't have beards."
Why are we still talking about them "taking the beards away" for 4th edition - look at the pic in the races section of 3 and 3.5. There are no beards....
Dwarven women are beardless, can't hold their liquor, and cost less than a longsword.
JK - I don't know how good they are or not in bed - I can't get past the damn mithril chastity belt.
And honestly, I think dwarves rock.
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Let me guess - you've never played it, have you?
Yep - hackmaster dwarven women have beards. Hackmaster fits into that humorous category.I have not but I own the rule book and it is truly hilarious. The whole chapter on the way to roll dice is great.
Are you telling me that it isn't a parody?
Only out of necessity.
Actually played? A cool as hell, serious game.
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Let me guess - you've never played it, have you?
Yep - hackmaster dwarven women have beards. Hackmaster fits into that humorous category.Anything that does not serve the point is to be dismissed. Preferably with just enough scorn to make clear that it doesn't count as 'proof' of anything other than the low tastes of the person presenting the evidence. Some facts are just inconvenient.
No, Hackmaster is a game with tongue plated squarely in cheek. I am talking about D&D. Are there miniatures besides humorous ones of dwarven women with beards?
I take it the answer is no since no one - including me - has been able to find one.
And again, this is not an argument - I do really want to see one if they are out there. i am not here to prove anyone wrong - I just want to see one of the frigging things.
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Let me guess - you've never played it, have you?
Yep - hackmaster dwarven women have beards. Hackmaster fits into that humorous category.I have not but I own the rule book and it is truly hilarious. The whole chapter on the way to roll dice is great.
Are you telling me that it isn't a parody?
Only out of necessity.
Actually played? A cool as hell, serious game.
Never would have guessed that from reading the book.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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And again, this is not an argument - I do really want to see one if they are out there. i am not here to prove anyone wrong - I just want to see one of the frigging things.
Psst. Dave. This thread isn't going anywhere you want it to go. When the horse has reached room temperature, dismount.
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And again, this is not an argument - I do really want to see one if they are out there. i am not here to prove anyone wrong - I just want to see one of the frigging things.Psst. Dave. This thread isn't going anywhere you want it to go. When the horse has reached room temperature, dismount.
I know.
I just feel like an argument has broken out when all I really want is to see a mini that I may have missed in my 32 years of collecting.
sheesh
...and since the horse is still slightly above room temperature, I'm wondering about sexist attitude that everyone is male unless she has big balloon breasts and is named Britney.
There is loads of dwarf artwork connected to various editions of D&D. I don't think I have seen any which clearly reveals state of the plumbing of the dwarf in the picture. And secondary gender signals of humans might not be applicable to other races (eg. beard). Elven men don't grow beards, does that mean that all elves are women?
Hi!
Does it help if I point out that Gary Gygax himself felt obligated to precise that dwarven women do have beards? I don't have my old Dragons on hand at the moment, but it was in the 70 or 80-something issues.
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My apologies - in my indignation over one of the two systems I've actually written for professionally being dissed, I completely omitted the POINT of my tirade...
Dismissing the miniature (and it DOES exist, as the link above proves) because the game has humorous content in the Player's Handbook is about the same as dismissing 4E due to an attrocious marketing campaign and a lame-seeming "pay us for our advertising" preview system.
The HM miniatures line has only a few miniatures that could be considered "humorous" (a few more if you think one or more of the following concepts to be innately silly: "Pack Ape," "Pixie Fairy," "Gnome Titan," "Leper Giant" and "Scroll Caddy") - and the guy who did some of the design and almost all of the casting work for the line apprenticed with Reaper, BTW, so several of the HM miniatures bear a resemblance to the primarily serious ones from Reaper.
If you want silly miniatures that can be dismissed, look at Grenadier's Lords of COmedy set - Half-Elf (split down the middle); Halfling in full plate (one toe visible beneath a slightly-oversized helmet). THOSE are "humorous" miniatures. Or look at "Ant Man" from the HeroClix line.
I am not dismissing the Hackmaster figure - that is a figure for that game. Early on in this thread i was told that there are literally dozens of female dwarf miniatures with beards. So I think to my self - what have i missed? So when I ask for someone to point me to them I get boobarians and hackmaster. I already knew about both of them. I was looking for something from a serious figure line like Ral Partha, Reaper, Grenadier, etc.
I then went back and looked at my original edition and AD&D stuff to see if this is something I missed in the game itself. I could not find anything that said female dwarves have beards. My sister played a female dwarf when I was little and she had a Ral Partha figure of a female dwarf that did not have a beard. I read Dragon up through issues in the 40s so if there was an article the I missed it. I left the game around 1982 and came back to it with 3E. So when 3E depicted female dwarves as beardless it did not even register.
Do you get that I am trying to fill a gap in my understanding here?
Unfortunately no one has been able to show me the now mythical D&D bearded female dwarf minis. I understand that Dragon magazine had something about it but it seems that actual published games did not. So I am just trying to understand what the real deal is here.
Well, I've had bearded dwarf women for 30 years. No one who was a female gamer EVER complained.
alot of people (especially kenzerco fans) obsess that dwarven women have to have beards like men. I wont say what I think about people who insist on that, and what it means about their personal lives. I will just say this. A dwarven female "beard" is long unattached sideburns. period. and the TRUE reason dwarves are surly is, they love living in caves and mountains but also love beer, so they have to either move out of the mountains or haul in the stuff to make said beer.
to have to work for their drink? that'd make anyone surly
I am not dismissing the Hackmaster figure
Apparently you are dismissing that figure. You say it does not count, since it is not explicitly designed for DnD and it is from what you define as a humorous game.
- that is a figure for that game.
In my experience, there are very few miniatures designed explicitly for DnD. The vast majority are fantasy minatures. I would suspect that is so the companies can both avoid licensing issues and reach a wider audience. If you use miniatures in your game(s), do you prohibit ones that are not explicitly for DnD?
Early on in this thread i was told that there are literally dozens of female dwarf miniatures with beards.
Please reference that statement. As I recall, I claimed to have seen two or three, and I believe others have claimed similar numbers. "Literally dozens" seems an exaggeration.
So I think to my self - what have i missed?
Apparently the ability to admit there may exist something that you yourself may not have seen as well as the capability to engage in logic and rational debate.
I then went back and looked at my original edition and AD&D stuff to see if this is something I missed in the game itself. I could not find anything that said female dwarves have beards. ... I read Dragon up through issues in the 40s so if there was...
Could it possible you do not recall the artwork showing bearded female dwarves? Why don't you go check your vast collection, since you are the expert. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your last sentence; did you mean you read Dragon only up to issue 49 or so, or did you start reading Dragon around issue 40 and continued until today?
My sister played a female dwarf when I was little and she had a Ral Partha figure of a female dwarf that did not have a beard.
Again, I suggest you study logic. Finding one instance of a female dwarf without a beard does not disprove the existence of a bearded female. I would expect better from some who seems to want to debate.
I notice you conveniently ignore many questions directed to you and facts that oppose your statements (not your opinions). I have also noticed that when presented with incontrovertible proof you spend your energy to change the parameters of your argument. Finally, despite your claims to the contrary, I have yet to see you on any topic actually admit you may be mistaken or that others methods outside your preferred ones may be valid. In sum, these make for extremely shoddy debate tactics and seriously undermine your claims. I sincerely hope you learn better, though I suspect your views and reactions are so deeply ingrained in who you are that you will prefer to play the victim and reassure yourself that you are correct in all you say and do. Until you can hold a reasoned discourse, I am afraid I must hearken back to your own words, that you have been a minature hound since 1975. All I see when you type is "arf arf arf". Best regards.
Stick - I am done talking to you.
I suppose you should cut your losses and run. I certainly wouldn't expect an answer to any questions or comments you have ignored. Again, best regards.