One of my general pet peeves with published adventures is the generally poor choices they make for NPC characters. Early in the new year I am starting a Rise of the Runelords campaign. There will be 5 - 6 players using 32 point buy, so I need to beef the NPCs up a little.
Figured I would post them here so others can use them, and if others have rebuilt the NPCs, it would be great if you could post them as well.
I will be rebuilding them using 28 point buy for the most part, but the significant BBEGs will be built using 32 point buy. I'm not going to worry about reallocating skill points, as it is generally not worth the effort.
The first NPC to be rebuilt is Tsuto Kaijitsu. I have been racking my brains as to why he has 2 monk levels, but I can't work it out. Anyway, Tsuto's stats emphasize his mobility and if the PCs can actually pin him down and go toe to toe with him, he will drop pretty quickly, even in the face of 1st level PCs.
I decided to make him a straight Swordsage 3 (ToB), wielding shortswords, concentrating on mobility and damage when cornered. I debated whether to keep the 1 rogue level for trapfinding (and short bow proficiency), but decided against it in the end, 2nd level maneuvers were too attractive :)
Male half-elf Swordsage 3
LE Medium Humanoid (elf)
Init +4;Senses low-light vision; Listen +3; Spot+3
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 16, flatfooted 17 (+4 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Deflection, +2 Wis)
HP 23 (3d8+6)
Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +5; +2 vs enchantments
Immune sleep
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Offense
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speed 30ft.
melee Shortsword +6 (1d6+3 19-20 x 2)
Ranged Dagger +6 (1d4 19 - 20 x2)
Maneuvers known (IL level 3rd)
1st Level Burning Blade*, Clinging Shadow Strike*, Moment of Perfect Mind*, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Shadow Blade Technique, Sudden Leap, Wolf Fang Strike*
2nd Level Flashing Strike*
Stances Known
1st Level Child of Shadow, Island of Blades
* denotes readied maneuvers
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Tactics
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Normally, Tsuto adopts the Child of Shadow stance, but if he is forced to go toe to toe and there are still some goblins alive, he switches to Island of Blades to aid flanking. Otherwise tactics are as per the book.
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10.
Base Attack +2; Grapple +2
Feats Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse
Skills As per book. Concentration +8.
Languages as per book
EX Quick to Act +1, discipline focus (Shadow Hand)
Gear As per book, add 2 Shortswords and 5 daggers, remove the shortbow.
This Tsuto should last a bit longer against most parties and is actually a very dangerous foe for first level PCs, with high AC and Hitpoints, and respectable damage output (averaging around 12 damage or so). I can't wait to see how he goes against my party of 6 1st level PCs.
Interesting. I don't have tome of battle, so I don't know what half of the stuff means. But it looks pretty fancy. More effort than I'm likely to put in when the PCs are 1st level.
I'm not too worried about Tsuto not being tough enough to stand up to the PCs. At first level, my usual path to dropping PCs is to crit with a mook and roll max on the damage die.
He's really just meant to be a speed-bump, in my opinion. He's supposed to get pwned and cough up some clues in the process. I hope my players don't let him escape, because then I have to figure out what would be different at Thistletop. Extra work for DM is bad. ;^)
But I suppose it's no fun if he drops too quick. If he seems too weak, maybe the PCs won't even bother to read his journal...
Creative Director
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The first NPC to be rebuilt is Tsuto Kaijitsu. I have been racking my brains as to why he has 2 monk levels, but I can't work it out. Anyway, Tsuto's stats emphasize his mobility and if the PCs can actually pin him down and go toe to toe with him, he will drop pretty quickly, even in the face of 1st level PCs.
He has monk levels because I like monks, first of all. Second; it gives him some cool surprise tactics that PCs who see him and are expecting a rogue might not expect. Third, he's NOT supposed to be a dangerous TPK machine. He's supposed to be one of several bad guys the PCs will face... the FIRST one... the one who the PCs catch off guard and not under the best conditions for his own survival, perhaps. If he were a bad-ass who could take out a party of adventurers with ease... he wouldn't need to hide in the basement while his goblin minions do the hard work above. He'd just walk into town and start killing people. That's an oversimplification, to a certain extent, but it gets my point across: He's not supposed to be a big-bad-end-boss.
Could he have been numbercrunched to be more "powerful?" Absolutely. But, I'll go to my grave with my theory that not every NPC encountered in an adventure needs to be capable of taking out a party of adventures. Once in a while, it's good for the game for the PCs to come across characters that are easy to defeat; that goes a long way toward making the PCs feel like heroes, really, and also helps to keep PCs from dying too often.
That all said, if you allow your players access to every single Wizards of the Coast book when they build their characters, you as the GM ABSOLUTELY need to go in to each adventure and rebuild the key NPCs to match. The more books you allow your PCs to draw from, the more powerful they'll get. This isn't because new books are "broken" or anything... it's just that being able to specialize and build to a character's strengths is a lot easier with 20 books than it is with 1 or 2.
The NPCs in Pathfinder are, for the most part, built with only the core books, and therefore they'll ALWAYS be pushovers for groups who build their characters using a much wider range of options. They're also built using the 25 point buy option. For a 4 player party. If you have 5-6 players using a 32 point option, of COURSE the NPCs are going to seem squishy.
That's not the designer's fault though. That's not poor adventure design. That's just a necessary evil; we don't publish Pathfinder adventures for one person's group. We can't. We publish for everyone's group. That's thousands of different groups. Some of them might find Tsuto a menace. Certainly, many will find him to be a pushover. It's each individual GM's job to take the pre-published adventure and customize and adapt it to his group, which is what you're doing here.
I just get a little snippy at comments like "generally poor choices they make for NPC characters," I guess, when what you're really trying to say is "This adventure as written is underpowered for my larger than normal, more powerful than normal group."
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He has monk levels because I like monks, first of all. Second; it gives him some cool surprise tactics that PCs who see him and are expecting a rogue might not expect.
The NPCs in Pathfinder...
In my game he ambushed them with some goblins as the characters were trying to free Ameiko. One chracter burst through all the goblins to attack him directly (as he was picking them off with his bow from afar).
The PC ran up and got the "fists of fury" and went down. It was great. You should have seen the look on the players face. One rogue shooting a bow, PC goes down with two unarmed strikes - priceless...
Thanks for your response James. I definently wasn't expecting it. Thanks especially for the reason behind the monk levels. It has been bugging me ever since I first got burnt offerings, and I couldn't work out any reason, mechanical, flavor, or otherwise as to why he had them. To hear it is basically just because you like monks is good enough for me. Part of the enjoyment of DMing for me is the opportunity to build and play a wide variety of different characters that i wouldn't normally get to do if I was just a player. And I totally get why you made him a bit weaker than normal. It was not a reason i would have thought about at all, and just goes to show why you are the professional game publisher / editor, and I just buy your modules.
I just get a little snippy at comments like "generally poor choices they make for NPC characters," I guess, when what you're really trying to say is "This adventure as written is underpowered for my larger than normal, more powerful than normal group."
No, that's not what I am trying to say. I understand NPCs being built with 25 point arrays using the core rules only. It 's a good baseline. I am not complaing about Tsuto being a rogue / monk instead of swordsage. I am actually complaining about the mechanical choices made within those confines.
To take Tsuto as an example. I understand your reasoning for him to be a bit weaker. And it makes good sense. But even if I was running for four PCs with 25 point buy, I would probabaly swap his Int and Con scores and swap Deflect Arrows for Combat reflexes. And it is the same with just baout every NPC I see published. There are always a few choices that just make no sense to me, that I would change for somethting else.
Now sometimes, true, there are good reasons for NPCs to not take the optimum combination of feats and abilities to maximise their combat potential. There are the good reasons you outlined for Tsuto being weaker than normal. And Grogmurt having brew potion again makes perfect sense for the character. As NPCs, there is more leeway for background and roleplaying feats as they fill important positions in the World.
But even given that, sometimes I just see no rhyme or reason for the choices made. Orik Vancaskerkin (pg 46) is a perfect example. Here is a mercenary, an NPC whose life and livelihood rely on his combat effectiveness. As an NPC he is as close as possible to a PC as you can get. And yet his feat choices bear little to no resemblance to most PC feat choices. I can see no reason why he has taken Blind Fight and Athletic. And EWP (Bastard Sword) is not much better either.
Granted, in core there are very few options for a Sword and Board fighter. I just had a quick look, and if you take out the Archery, Two Weapon Fighting and Mounted Combat feats, you are actually left with very little. Especially if you then rule out Combat Expertise (due to low INT).
So let me take it back. I'm sorry. I hadn't realised just how hard it is to make a decent fighter using Core only. At least now I know why so many NPCs have Blind fight, it really is the best of a bunch of bad options. With such a limited choice, the choices made for Orik's feats become a bit clearer. It would get boring real quick if every fighter had Power attack, Cleave etc every time.
OK, so the situation with Orik isn't as clear cut as I first thought. But gerneally, every, single, time, I look at NPC stat blocks, I can see at least a few choices (either feats, gear, or spells) that make no sense, from either a mechanical or flavor point of view.
A good example of this is Nualia. I think I understand her having fighter levels (she wasn't always a cleric). But why EWP (Bastard Sword)? I could understand if the bastard sword was Lamashtu's favored weapon, but surely such a favoured follower should be using a Falchion, which is Lamastu's favored weapon?
I could go through and point out similar tweaks with most of the NPCs in Burnt offerings (and most published modules I read). I understand the need to make choices dictated by background, personality, and role of the NPC, its just that often it seems inferior choices (sometimes almost strictly inferior choices) are made when there is no good roleplaying, background or personality reason for them.
This isn't just a problem with Paizo, it happens in every single published adventure, and reading through Burnt Offerings again, I actually think Paizo have done a better job than most.
I'm not trying to have a go at anyone, just expressing my opinion that most (all?) NPCs in published adventures seem to have odd to poor choices made in their builds.
Now, assuming I haven't completely thread jacked my own thread, I'll get back to the process of restatting these NPCs.
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It has been bugging me ever since I first got burnt offerings, and I couldn't work out any reason, mechanical, flavor, or otherwise as to why he had them.
Seriously?
He's an asian half-elf with a cool name like Tsuto Kaijitsu. My players would have cried "foul" if he didn't fling a few ninja kicks their way based on those reasons alone.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Now sometimes, true, there are good reasons for NPCs to not take the optimum combination of feats and abilities to maximise their combat potential....
When I look back at my own life and the number of bad (or, let's say, suboptimal) choices I've made, I'm always amazed at the suggestion that most of the people you meet even might be optimized. Most people are a little here and there, a bit screwed up, a bit misguided. Characters that are optimal should reflect that in their personalities. There should be something obsessive or driven in them and they should be great planners or they should have lived somewhat sheltered lives, trained for one purpose. (Yes, of course, Tsuto has that anger that could have driven him.)
Actually, I was happy to see the 2 monk levels. I hope that more exiles from Tian Xia are bringing the traditions north: "Travelers from the far south, the lands of Tian Xia, and other exotic locales sometimes appear in southern ports, bringing with them the occult battle arts of their people" -- RotRL Player's Guide
Any chance that Tian Xia will be more developed at some point? No ... don't tell me. Let me keep hoping.
Going through the module, the next NPC to get the upgrade treatment is Warchief Ripnugget. I was going to do Koruvus, but I couldn't really reverse engineer the transformation, and he strikes me more as a unique monster than a built NPC. Next in line was Erylium, but I don't have Book of Fiends, i have heard a number of parties have a hard enough time of it with her anyway, and spellcasters rely more on their spells than their builds anyway. Similar reasoning behind skipping Grogmurt as well. Any tweaking is frankly not really worth the effort for what would amount to a rather small upgrade in combat effectiveness. Although for both of these I might swap out a few spells, and maybe tweak Grogmurts stats a little.
Which brings us to Warchief Rignugget. I was really tempted to go with Warblade instead of fighter levels, but Goblins don't really strike me as the type to train as Warblades. So Fighter it is. And I changed his weapon to a Horsechopper, from a dog slicer. To me it feels like he would use the bigger weapon.
Although when dealing with mounted combat, it was tempting to go with a Lance. Actually, that's a great idea, I think I'll go with that. The double damage on a charge is too good to pass up. I know he sn't using normal goblin weapons, but (to me anyway) that sort of makes sense for the chief. No dodgy horsechopper or dogslicer for him.
I was also tempted to give him full plate, but I think Breastplate fits him better. I started statting him out, and basically all that changes is:
Melee +1 lance +8 (1d6+6 20x3) Double Damage on a Charge
Str14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha13
Base Attack +4; Grapple +2
Feats Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (Lance), Weapon Specialization (lance).
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No, that's not what I am trying to say. I understand NPCs being built with 25 point arrays using the core rules only. It 's a good baseline. I am not complaing about Tsuto being a rogue / monk instead of swordsage. I am actually complaining about the mechanical choices made within those confines.
The gripe I have here is that as important as the mechanical choices are, in the game world the NPCs don't have a list of the best abilities to have and the worst ones to avoid. Feats taken by NPCs represent their background and the training they've had in their lives. They didn't just say to themselves "Alright, I want to be the best Fighter there is, so I will make sure to avoid Toughness and Endurance, since these aren't very useful for a good fighter build."
In these people's lives, they take the training that is offered to them. You mention EWP (bastard sword) is a sub-optimal feat, and this is a point with which I will not argue. However, you seem to be implying that no NPCs should HAVE EWP (bastard sword) because it is sub-optimal, and this makes no sense to me. What about warriors who were given their grandfather's bastard sword to train with when they were young? Or warriors who learned their ways from a bastard sword weilding hero? These people exist, and I would argue, are necessary to simulate the verisimilitude of the D&D world.
If EVERY NPC is optimized, then what is the purpose of all of these feats that are sub-optimal? Where does Toughness end up? Agile? Run? Magical Aptitude? I'm not saying that every NPC should have these "poor" feats either, but that there should be some variety. A lack of variety would make a lot of encounters seem boring for me. I'd know what to expect whenever I would face a certain type of enemy.
At least with the current write-up, I'll get to enjoy the look on the archer's face when he fires off an arrow at Tsuto and he knocks it aside with his nimble hands.
All I'm saying here is unnecessary, in a sense, since there's nothing wrong with what you want to do. You want to optimize the NPCs, you want to challenge your group, and this is perfectly fine, especially if your group really enjoys this level of challenge. I applaud your efforts to upgrade these NPCs, and in fact, will probably look into this thread from time to time for ideas. From the posts I've seen around these boards, I recognize that you certainly know how to build a hell of a powerful character, and I may use this for myself.
Really, I just wanted to say that ability choice is not necessarily a mechanical choice, and variety in feats/classes/skills allows for interesting roleplaying elements as well as a way to do something different for your PCs. We're not all perfect, and neither should our NPCs be.
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Creative Director
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A good example of this is Nualia. I think I understand her having fighter levels (she wasn't always a cleric). But why EWP (Bastard Sword)? I could understand if the bastard sword was Lamashtu's favored weapon, but surely such a favoured follower should be using a Falchion, which is Lamastu's favored weapon?
First of all... please don't let me stop you from posting alternate stat blocks here; that's what these boards are for, and I for one really get a kick out of seeing things like that. So post on!
But yeah, there's often a lot more than "what makes an NPC the most numbercrunched we can make him/her" going on with professionally published adventures; the desire to make NPCs different is certainly a major part (as you mention... it's boring to have every fighter have the Power Attack line of feats), but there's all sorts of other things that can get in there and cause seemingly non-optimal choices in NPC builds. Let's take Nualia as an example; specifically, why she fights with a bastard sword and not a falchion.
Lamashtu's favored weapon is the falchion mostly because I like the idea of priests of the goddess of monsters fighting with a big fang-shaped sword. BUT: It's a two handed weapon, and Nualia has a nifty claw hand; it seemed like it would be a waste if her demon hand was only holding onto the handle of her sword, so the option at that point was to just give her a one-handed weapon so she could make secondary attacks with her claw. I still wanted her to have the biggest weapon she could wield in that one hand, and that's pretty much the bastard sword. In addition, since she's a spellcaster too, she needs a hand free to do the somatic components of her spells; it'd be too awkward for her to not have that hand free, really, to wield her weapon properly AND be able to cast spells as she wants.
Honestly... Lamashtu's favored weapon SHOULD be a claw or bite, but that's not really a weapon most folk can use.
In any event... here's another way to look at it. I've been building and editing stat blocks for Dungeon and Pathfinder for close to five years. A conservative estimate would put me at having edited over 2,000 stat blocks over that time, the majority of them using only the Core Rules for feats and spells and options. When you get right down to it, there really is a "best" feat selection for a fighter, or a "best" spell selection for a sorcerer, but if every fighter and sorcerer had the same selection of feats or spells... well, what's the point of having choices in the first place? Why bother having so many feats at all, when it'd be better just to give the fighter the "best" feats as "fighter powers" and give the sorcerer the "best" spells as spell-like abilities. Variety is the answer: It gets old real fast to see the same old fighter and the same old sorcerer. For Dungeon, and now for Pathfinder, I try to build NPCs so that they not only at least fill the role they're required to play (big bad end boss, henchman, guardian, mook, whatever), but also to make each of them, in some way, a unique character. Often, a great way to do that is to give the character a unique appearance, or an unusual personality quirk, but just as often it can be fun to build an NPC who utilizes some of those less-awesome feat choices and spell selections. It keeps the game interesting and fresh, and if I can find a way to make a non-standard feat or spell work out in a new way (such as using unseen servant to constantly close doors or move aside dropped weapons to make a battlefield more chaotic... a trick I pulled in Red Hand of Doom), so much the better, I think.
AND: For the record: I think that Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) is one of the better feats out there; it gives a character great damage with one hand and leaves the other open for off-hand attacks, shields, or spellcasting. Plus, I like being able to print the word "bastard."
OK, now it's time for Orik Vancaskerkin. As I mentioned above, I didn't realise how difficult it actually was to make a core only fighter. Orik screams warblade to me, and so his final version is going to look significantly different to the original. But we will keep sword and board, but will change his armor to Full plate (which is offers more protection than banded mail).
Male human Warblade 2 / Fighter 1
CN Medium Humanoid
Init +1;Senses Listen +0; Spot+0
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Defense
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AC 22, touch 11, flatfooted 21 (+8 Armor, +1 Dex, +3 Shield)
HP 30 (2d12+1d10+6
Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +0; +2 Reflex when not flat footed
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Offense
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speed 20ft.
melee mwk long sword +7 (1d8+3 19-20 x2) or
mwk longsword +5 (1d8+3 19-20 x2) AND mwk spiked shield +5 (1d6+1 20x2)
Ranged Composite Longbow +4 (1d8 x3)
Maneuvers known (IL level 2nd)
1st Level Moment of Perfect Mind*, Sapphire Nightmare Blade*, Stone Bones, Wolf Fang Strike*
Stances Known
1st Level Stance of Clarity
* denotes readied maneuvers
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Tactics
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As per book, but makes use of shield bash on full attacks.
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Statistics
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Str 16,Dex 12,Con 14,Int 14,Wis 10,Cha 8
Base Attack +3; Grapple +6
Feats Agile Shield Fighter, Improved Shield Bash, Power Attack, Shield Specialisation
Skills Concentration +8, Diplomacy +3, Jump +4
Gear as book plus, mwk full plate, mwk spiked heavy steel shield, mwk longsword, minus +1 banded mail, mwk bastard sword
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Creative Director
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I would like to point out that Nualia has only recently 'acquired' her claw? Did she know that she was going to 'get' that claw well in advance, when choosing to take up the bastard sword, or has she simply gained a lot of levels in the past week?
It seems more logical to me that the Lamashtu favoured weapon would appeal more.... (unless the goddess intervened and swapped Nualia's feats around when she gained the claw?)
There's probably a bit of metadesign going on there, but it's pretty easy to justify by saying she had visions of her claw growing in. And as I mentioned in my edited post... bastard swords actually are a pretty good weapon choice for a character who wants to optimize the damage you do with one hand while keeping the other open for shield use or spell casting; two things Nualia certainly would have had in mind long before THE CLAW showed up.
Also, although I'd have to double check the Nualia Timeline to be positive... she started taking fighter levels before she really got into the Lamashtu worship, I believe. I could be misremembering there, though...
In any event, EWP (bastard sword) doesn't seem to me to be a poor choice at all, whereas Power Attack is almost ALWAYS a sub-optimal choice in most battles, unless you happen to be a monster with a LOT of hit dice and a really high strength score...
OK, now it's time for Orik Vancaskerkin. As I mentioned above, I didn't realise how difficult it actually was to make a core only fighter. Orik screams warblade to me, and so his final version is going to look significantly different to the original. But we will keep sword and board, but will change his armor to Full plate (which is offers more protection than banded mail).
Male human Warblade 2 / Fighter 1
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I just wanted to say that I'm enjoying your alternate write ups.
Also: I am so glad you're not my DM. (Please understand; I'm the guy who lowers his stat rolls because I think my character is too poweful. And I once played a 2ed Thief with a Dex of 9. So, you know.)
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Orik Vancaskerkin (pg 46) is a perfect example. Here is a mercenary, an NPC whose life and livelihood rely on his combat effectiveness. As an NPC he is as close as possible to a PC as you can get. And yet his feat choices bear little to no resemblance to most PC feat choices. I can see no reason why he has taken Blind Fight and Athletic.
Athletic, I can agree with. Static modifiers are rather uninteresting. But I have to say that I found Orik's Blind Fight feat to be rather inspiring. I never build NPCs with that one, so I actually ended up coming up with a convoluted story to explain why he took that feat (it had to do with a get-rich-quick scheme involving several Halflings and a Darkmantle ;) ) And that story turned out to be quite useful as a roleplay aid when the PCs bought him out and had him as a cohort for a while. But I digress. . .
I tend to rebuild NPCs to suit the needs of my game, but I always try to retain the flavor of the ones in the module. Sometimes it's fun to see how the PCs react to someone who has feats or abilities that no player in her right mind chooses.
Now if only the NPCs came pre-equipped with treasure from the Magic Item Compendium, specifically tailored to my group's needs. . . ;)
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It's a two handed weapon, and Nualia has a nifty claw hand; it seemed like it would be a waste if her demon hand was only holding onto the handle of her sword, so the option at that point was to just give her a one-handed weapon so she could make secondary attacks with her claw. I still wanted her to have the biggest weapon she could wield in that one hand, and that's pretty much the bastard sword. In addition, since she's a spellcaster too, she needs a hand free to do the somatic components of her spells; it'd be too awkward for her to not have that hand free, really, to wield her weapon properly AND be able to cast spells as she wants.
I'm a little confused. Is there something in the rules that prevents her from letting go with one hand to use the claw for spell-casting or a natural attack? I understand that you wield the weapon two-handed when you attack, but that doesn't mean they're super-glued to the handle for the rest of the round. Maybe you could argue that letting go forfeits attacks of opportunity with that weapon, but that's why she has an evil claw in the first place.
(I also rebuilt Nualia to accomodate a large party, and gave her a Falchion, amongst other changes. I didn't use the modified AoO rule, but I might in the future.)
But yeah, there's often a lot more than "what makes an NPC the most numbercrunched we can make him/her" going on with professionally published adventures; the desire to make NPCs different is certainly a major part (as you mention... it's boring to have every fighter have the Power Attack line of feats), but there's all sorts of other things that can get in there and cause seemingly non-optimal choices in NPC builds.
[SNIP]
In any event... here's another way to look at it. I've been building and editing stat blocks for Dungeon and Pathfinder for close to five years. A conservative estimate would put me at having edited over 2,000 stat blocks over that time, the majority of them using only the Core Rules for feats and spells and options. When you get right down to it, there really is a "best" feat selection for a fighter, or a "best" spell selection for a sorcerer, but if every fighter and sorcerer had the same selection of feats or spells... well, what's the point of having choices in the first place? Why bother having so many feats at all, when it'd be better just to give the fighter the "best" feats as "fighter powers" and give the sorcerer the "best" spells as spell-like abilities. Variety is the answer: It gets old real fast to see the same old fighter and the same old sorcerer. For Dungeon, and now for Pathfinder, I try to build NPCs so that they not only at least fill the role they're required to play (big bad end boss, henchman, guardian, mook, whatever), but also to make each of them, in some way, a unique character. Often, a great way to do that is to give the character a unique appearance, or an unusual personality quirk, but just as often it can be fun to build an NPC who utilizes some of those less-awesome feat choices and spell selections. It keeps the game interesting and fresh, and if I can find a way to make a non-standard feat or spell work out in a new way (such as using unseen servant to constantly close doors or move aside dropped weapons to make a battlefield more chaotic... a trick I pulled in Red Hand of Doom), so much the better, I think.
I think this gets to the heart of what I am not "getting." I have only been playing DnD for about 2 years, (and sporadically at that). Combined with my natural inclination towards number crunching, and those "best" fighter builds are still fresh and exciting for me. I haven't played / run a billion fighters using a Greatsword and Power Attack.
I understand the need for variety I think my problem is I have been looking at the written backgrounds for NPCs, and thinking (wrongly) that that encompasses their entire background. If something isn't referenced in their background, instead of disregarding it, I should probably work a bit harder to work it into their background. I'll try to work on it in the future.
In any event, EWP (bastard sword) doesn't seem to me to be a poor choice at all, whereas Power Attack is almost ALWAYS a sub-optimal choice in most battles, unless you happen to be a monster with a LOT of hit dice and a really high strength score
I suppose wel'll just have to disagree here Mr Jacobs. EWP (Bastard Sword) gives an average of 1 solitary point of damage compared to a longsword. That to me doesn't sound worth a feat at all, especially given the high number of hitpoints most creatures have. There are any number of other feats that provide more than a single point of damage. Although I think I agree with power attack, it is situational at best.
Thanks for your comments James. It has been a fascinating insight into the process of designing NPCs. At least now I know the reasons for those "unoptimal" feat choices. I always assumed that surely game designers would know how to build an effective character, now I know why they build them the way they do.
I just wanted to say that I'm enjoying your alternate write ups.
Also: I am so glad you're not my DM. (Please understand; I'm the guy who lowers his stat rolls because I think my character is too poweful. And I once played a 2ed Thief with a Dex of 9. So, you know.)
Thankyou, that is part of the reason I am posting them here. Looking over what I did with Tsuto, I may need to either scale him back a little, or give my party a lead in adventure so they are second level before they face him.
I'm a little confused. Is there something in the rules that prevents her from letting go with one hand to use the claw for spell-casting or a natural attack? I understand that you wield the weapon two-handed when you attack, but that doesn't mean they're super-glued to the handle for the rest of the round. Maybe you could argue that letting go forfeits attacks of opportunity with that weapon, but that's why she has an evil claw in the first place.
She can let go to use her hand for spellcasting, but I don't think the claw gives you an extra attack, since you are "using" that hand to attack with the Falchion. However, I'm going to give her a Falchion, and then have her make an extra attack with her claw as a secondary natural weapon (and a -5 penalty of course). I don't think the rules work that way, but its cool, and I'm the DM so it doesn't matter what the rules say :)
The first NPC to be rebuilt is Tsuto Kaijitsu. I have been racking my brains as to why he has 2 monk levels, but I can't work it out. Anyway, Tsuto's stats emphasize his mobility and if the PCs can actually pin him down and go toe to toe with him, he will drop pretty quickly, even in the face of 1st level PCs.He has monk levels because I like monks, first of all. Second; it gives him some cool surprise tactics that PCs who see him and are expecting a rogue might not expect. Third, he's NOT supposed to be a dangerous TPK machine. He's supposed to be one of several bad guys the PCs will face... the FIRST one... the one who the PCs catch off guard and not under the best conditions for his own survival, perhaps. If he were a bad-ass who could take out a party of adventurers with ease... he wouldn't need to hide in the basement while his goblin minions do the hard work above. He'd just walk into town and start killing people. That's an oversimplification, to a certain extent, but it gets my point across: He's not supposed to be a big-bad-end-boss.
Also, mevers, remember that Pathfinder is an OGL product, which puts the swordsage (ToB:Bo9S) and ninja (CAd) off limits for publication as WotC/D&D IP. A rogue/monk is a decent way to capture a similar flavor.
Mevers: I take it that you are sticking within the GP limit for these writeups? Full plate gives the best armor class, but it is also alot more expensive.
My character in SCAP at the moment is a fighter with...
(wait for it)
EWP: Bastard Sword.
Specifically so he could do a lot of damage and also use a shield.
The campaign to give everyone EWP: Bastard Sword starts here!
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For Dungeon, and now for Pathfinder, I try to build NPCs so that they not only at least fill the role they're required to play (big bad end boss, henchman, guardian, mook, whatever), but also to make each of them, in some way, a unique character.
I just have to take the time to congratulate you on this, the Dungeon and Pathfinder NPC's have always struck me as being very interesting and unique.
There's probably a bit of metadesign going on there, but it's pretty easy to justify by saying she had visions of her claw growing in. And as I mentioned in my edited post... bastard swords actually are a pretty good weapon choice for a character who wants to optimize the damage you do with one hand while keeping the other open for shield use or spell casting; two things Nualia certainly would have had in mind long before THE CLAW showed up.
What about the time to come when Lamashtu rewards her with another claw? Didn't Nualia think about that? Or didn't she recieve visions of other changes because Lamashtu knew she was going to die? If she did then why reward Nualia with the first claw in the first place?
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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What about the time to come when Lamashtu rewards her with another claw? Didn't Nualia think about that? Or didn't she recieve visions of other changes because Lamashtu knew she was going to die? If she did then why reward Nualia with the first claw in the first place?
It's probably because monsters don't have to be symmetrical.
No, seriously. Take a look at a couple of monstrous monsters; I guarantee that the freakiest and scariest are the ones that are misshapen.
I think it good for the community to share ideas, even if there are more positive ways to broach the subject.
IMO, the more interesting and peculiar a character is, the better.
I think we need to be careful when using the word "optimal" in this setting. The sense of the word changes depending on the type of setting you are creating for your campaign. If the focus is primarily action and combat, then optimal will most likely involve the mathematical sense of the word. If the focus is on an interesting story, and roleplaying, then optimal will take on a different sense, which at the lease will not be focused on mathematics. In fact this could be broken down into the use of the word for different encounters, but the idea remains the same, the sense of the word changes based on setting or intent.
Best.
Please please please put your stuff up at DM Tools - these stat blocks are too useful for a variety of villains. :)
Mevers: I take it that you are sticking within the GP limit for these writeups? Full plate gives the best armor class, but it is also alot more expensive.
I'm basically just swapping like for like. I may not have been clear, but I was comparing fullplate to Orik's +1 Banded Mail. For an extra 100gp, fullplate gives an extra +1 to AC for the cost of 1 ACP.
It is a sad fact that in each category (light, medium, heavy), there is a clear best armor (Chain shirt, Breastplate and Fullplate respectively, or mithril versions of them). For me it breaks realism to have anything else enchanted. They shold exist as mundane armors, but why go to the rtouble of enchanting Banded Mail, when straight fullplate gives better protection for roughly the same cost?
Please please please put your stuff up at DM Tools - these stat blocks are too useful for a variety of villains. :)
Will do Lilith. Thanks for the reminder :)
And finally we come to Nualia, the driving force behind the entire burnt offerings plot line. As the BBEG of the adventure, she deserves a 32 point buy build. Looking at her stats, her AC is woeful for a CR 5 encounter, but with her desire to keep her midrift bare, there is not really much we can do about it. I did consider giving her full plate armor, but it doesn't really fit the character.
I also swapped her Fighter levels for levels in Crusader. This will give her some significant defensive abilities, which should go some way to off setting the drop in AC from not wearing full plate. I was going to go with straight fighter levels, but Crusader makes more sense for someone with her zeal for Lamashtu. If her spellcasting wasn't so integral to the module, I would make her a straight Crusader 5 for some hefty smackdown.
It looks like her initial stats were 15 8 14 10 12 13, with a 32 point buy, I will up them up (before racial modifiers) to 15, 14, 14, 10, 12, 14.
Female Aasimar Crusader 2 / Cleric 3
CE Medium outsider (native)
Init +2; Senses Listen +4; Spot+4
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 12, flatfooted 16 (+6 Armor, +2 Dex)
HP 39 (2d10+3d8+10)
Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +9;
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Offense
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speed 20ft.
melee +1 Falchion +8 (2d4+5 18-20 x2) or
+1 Falchion +8 (2d4+5 18-20 x2) AND Claw +2 (1d6+1 20x2)
Ranged Light Crossbow +6 (1d8 19-20 x2)
Maneuvers known (IL level 2nd)
1st Level Crusader's Strike,Charging Minotaur, Douse the Flames, Stone Bones, Vanguard Strike
Stances Known
1st Level Martial Spirit, Stonefoot Stance
Special Attacks rebuke/command undead 5/day
Spell-Like Abiliities (CL 5th)
1/day - daylight
Spells Prepared (CL 3rd)
As per book
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Tactics
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As per book
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16
Base Attack +4; Grapple +7
Feats Lamashtu's Mark, Evil Devotion
Gear Swap +1 Bastard Sword for +1 Falchion
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I'm a little confused. Is there something in the rules that prevents her from letting go with one hand to use the claw for spell-casting or a natural attack? I understand that you wield the weapon two-handed when you attack, but that doesn't mean they're super-glued to the handle for the rest of the round. Maybe you could argue that letting go forfeits attacks of opportunity with that weapon, but that's why she has an evil claw in the first place.
Actually there is, it goes back to early 3.0 when the feat first surfaced. When you take your hand off the weapon, without the feat, you're no longer proficient with the weapon and thus get the non-proficiency penalty for wielding it. So any AoO you get, you get a -4 to your attack. If you try to cast a touch spell, that -4 is still there too.
From a roleplaying standpoint, it means your character doesn't know how to fight holding the sword in 1 hand or the sword is too heavy for the character to hold in 1 hand.
Too bad reading the statblock of anything from the Bo9S is like trying to decipher sanscrit...
If you don't have the book, and haven't read it, then you are probably right.
But either way, mechanically they are similar to Wizards. Maneuvers known equates to basically spells in their spellbook, and maneuvers readied is the same as spells prepared. The can just "reprepare" (or to use ToB terminology, ready) their maneuvers with 5 minutes "exercise" instead of the 8 hours rest and 1 hour study a wizard needs.
Hey mevers, I'm liking your mods. (What book is the Warblade, Crusader and Swordsage in?)
I too have also started rebuilding some of the key NPCs. However, since I only have the SRD on hand, they are core rules only.
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Orik "Stone Shield" Vancaskerin
Male Human Fighter 4 (CR 4)
CN Medium humanoid
Init +2
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AC 21 [25 when fighting defensively], tough 11, flat-footed 19
(+5 chain mail, +2 dex, +4 heavy spiked shield +1)
hp 32
Fort +6 Ref +3 Will +2
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Spd 20 fit.
Melee mwk longsowrd +9 (1d8+5/19-20) or
mwk longsword +5 (1d8+5/19-20) and +5 spiked heavy shield (1d6+1)
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Tactics: Orik, first and foremost is a cautious fighter. He is always on the lookout for chokepoints or other areas, where he could use his expertise with his shield to full effect. As soon as he is hit, he will begin to fight defensively against the individual who hit him.
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Str 16 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 8 (28 point buy)
Base Atk +4; Grp +7
Feats Improved Shield Bash, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Weapon Specialization (longsword), Weapon Focus (longsword)
Combat Gear: potion of cure moderate wounds; Other Gear: mwk chain mail, +1 heavy spiked shield, mwk longsword, 2pp
Notes: My inspiration from Orik hit while I was looking at his picture on page 46. His massive shield with a face emblazoned on it got me to thinking: "here's a guy who really loves his shield." So, I switched his +1 banded mail for a +1 spiked heavy steel shield which I described as: a stone shield studded with numerous crystalline spikes, with the calm visage of a stone giant elder emblazoned on the front. (I'll probably tie this in with RotR 4 somehow, by making it Conna's buckler or something).
Another nifty thing about Orik is that he's able to lay the smackdown with his beloved shield as well as his longword. The players will be surprised when they see him using what is normally a defensive item for offensive purposes. (i.e., he is literally fighting with a sword and shielf)
As a fighter who loves fighting defensively, Orik will be a big nuisance for my players, but ultimately, they should be satisfied when they get him to surrender. If placed strategically behind a door, he'll be able to fare well against 6 3rd level PCs. Enterprising players will realize that he may be akin to a stone wall physically, but mentally he's a pushover (low will save).
Hey mevers, I'm liking your mods. (What book is the Warblade, Crusader and Swordsage in?)
Glad you like them. Crusader, Warblade, and Swordsage are all from Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords. I really recommend picking it up, epsecially if you like playing melee classes. Some don't like it, but I love it, it not only gives the melee classes a much needed boost, it also provides them with a range of interesting options each round as oppossed to "I attack. I full Attack, I full Attack again."
I too have also started rebuilding some of the key NPCs. However, since I only have the SRD on hand, they are core rules only.
He looks good, my initial thought was to give him TWF and improved shield bash, and he really benefits from that extra level of fighter. I didn't actually realise how limited Core is regarding fighter feat choices till I sat down to have a look for Orik. The cupboard is really bare.
Glad you like him. Part of the fun for me, as a DM, is to take NPCs and modify them. I enjoy giving each of these Paizo NPCs my own personal spin, I regret not doing something for Tsuto, but ah well, I still have plans for him.
[Tsuto is currently being held in the Sandpoint Garrison, but when my PCs come back to Thistletop, they will be asked if they would like to escort him safely to Magnimar for trial. Of course, the judge will be none other than our good friend Judge Ironbriar (talk about someone who needs modding :D), who instead of sentencing him to death, will order him to be sent to Fort Rannick to serve out his sentence as a Blackarrow Ranger.]
For me it breaks realism to have anything else enchanted. They shold exist as mundane armors, but why go to the rtouble of enchanting Banded Mail, when straight fullplate gives better protection for roughly the same cost?
It doesn't break realism at all. I think you are way too focused on number-crunching. Imagine a tribe of primitive goblinoids. They might not have the technology to manufacture anything but hide armor, but they might still have an adept who can make a hide armor magical.
In any event... here's another way to look at it. I've been building and editing stat blocks for Dungeon and Pathfinder for close to five years. A conservative estimate would put me at having edited over 2,000 stat blocks over that time, the majority of them using only the Core Rules for feats and spells and options. When you get right down to it, there really is a "best" feat selection for a fighter, or a "best" spell selection for a sorcerer, but if every fighter and sorcerer had the same selection of feats or spells... well, what's the point of having choices in the first place? Why bother having so many feats at all, when it'd be better just to give the fighter the "best" feats as "fighter powers" and give the sorcerer the "best" spells as spell-like abilities.
James,
Based on your post, I'm interested in hearing what you think the "best" feat selection for a Fighter is and the "best" spell selection for a Sorcerer.
Olaf the Stout
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Creative Director
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James,
Based on your post, I'm interested in hearing what you think the "best" feat selection for a Fighter is and the "best" spell selection for a Sorcerer.
Olaf the Stout
For me, the "best" selection are the ones that support the NPC's personality the best. I prefer building NPCs in a more organic way, and that does indeed mean that now and then they'll have spells and feats that will raise hackles.
But for the "power" build for a fighter using the core rules only, I tend to prefer the Weapon Specialization/Focus feats and Improved Critical, and then either the archery, mounted combat, two-weapon, or power attack line of feats.
For a sorcerer, I'd say that the must have spell for each level would be:
1: mage armor
2: false life
3: fly
4: dimension door
5: wall of force
6: greater dispel magic
7: project image
8: maze
9: time stop
But if I think more about it, I'd probably pick different spells.
My DM insists that sorcerers who don't take limited wish and wish are idiots. I'm not sure I'd go quite that far. :) I would add the shadow conjuration and evocation spell lines, to give the sorcerer a wider array of options.
And my last character was a thri-kreen fighter/tempest, working toward a four-bastard-sword build with, at early epic levels, a sixteen-hit full attack action. :) Sadly the campaign didn't last long.
Got a few more NPCs to add. With 6 characters with high rolls (very few have scores less than 12), I have a lot of beefing up of encounters to do.
So first we have
Female goblin bard 2 (MM 133)
NE Small humanoid
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +5, Spot +1
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Defense
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AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 13 (2d6+4)
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +4
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Offense
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee whip +1 (1d2-1 nonlethal) or dogslicer +1 (1d4-1/19–20)
Ranged shortbow +5 (1d4-1/×3)
Spells Known (CL 2nd)
1 (1/day)—inspirational boost, grease (DC 13)
0 (2/day)—daze (DC 12), ghost sound (DC 12), [i]mage hand, message[i]
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Tactics
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As per book, Inspire Courage boosts not factored in above.
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Atk +1; Grp –4
Followed by a
Goblin ranger 2 (MM 133)
NE Small humanoid
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +6, Spot +6
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Defense
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AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 16 (2d8+4)
Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +1
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Offense
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee mwk dogslicer +4 (1d4+1/19—20) or mwk dogslicer +2 (1d4+1/19—20) AND mwk dogslicer +4 (1d4/19—20)
Ranged shortbow +6 (1d4/×3) or shortbow +4 (1d4/×3) AND shortbow +4 (1d4/×3)
Special Attacks favored enemy +2 (animal)
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Tactics
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As per book
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +2; Grp –1
Feats Two Weapon Fighting, Track, Rapid Shot
Skills Handle Animal +3, Listen +5, Move Silently +7, Ride +11, Spot +5, Survival +5
Now to work on Aldern. Instead of the boar hunt, he is leading them on the Treasure hunt from TC1, so I need to stat him up fully for that. Plus I think he will need some beefing up for my party, although with 2 rogues, a scout and no Cleric, they should get a bit of rude shock.
Aldern's Stats as a Dread Ghast are 17, 18, -, 14, 12, 22. The dread Ghast template gives +4 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Int, +4 Wis and +6 Cha. His starting stats therefor were 13, 14, -, 12, 8, 16. Looks like his Con was 10, and his Cha was 15, and got the level up point at 4HD.
I'll give him a 32 point buy, since he is the major antagonist of (at least the first half of) The Skinsaw Murders. Giving him the Stats 14, 14, 10, 13, 8, 17 and his level up will go into CHA for an 18.
To give him a bit more staying power, I'll also swap an aristocrat level for a rogue level, which gives him uncanny dodge.
For feats, not sure what to go with, especially since weapon finesse doesn't really give him anything. To give him some staying power, I think I'll go with defensive feats, Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Improved Buckler Defense, and improved feint (in lack of any better options). If anyone has suggestions for better feats, I am all ears.
And so we come to the Stat Block
Male Human aristocrat 3/rogue 4
CE Medium humanoid
Init +6; Senses Listen +0, Spot +0
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+5 armor, +2 Shield, +2 Dex, +1 Deflection); Uncanny Dodge, Combat Expertise
hp 31 (3d8+4d6)
Fort +2, Ref +7, Will +3; evasion
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Offense
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee +1 war razor +7 (1d4+3/18-20)
Ranged shortbow +6 (1d6/×3)
Special Attacks sneak attack 2d6, Improved Feint
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Tactics
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Aldern will do his best to stay out of melee, only entering hand to hand combat as a last resort. In the meantime he prefers to fight at range.
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 18
Base Atk +5; Grp +7
Feats Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Improved Buckler Defense, Improved Feint
Skills Bluff +14
Languages Common, Elven
SQ trapfinding, trap sense +1
Gear +1 war razor, +1 Mithril Shirt, +1 Buckler, ring of jumping, ring of protection +1, extravagant nobles outfit
It will be interesting to see ho my PCs go when they finally meet him in his Dread Ghast form.
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My DM insists that sorcerers who don't take limited wish and wish are idiots. I'm not sure I'd go quite that far. :) I would add the shadow conjuration and evocation spell lines, to give the sorcerer a wider array of options.
And my last character was a thri-kreen fighter/tempest, working toward a four-bastard-sword build with, at early epic levels, a sixteen-hit full attack action. :) Sadly the campaign didn't last long.
Well, call me a MTG goober, but I personally like to really theme sorcerors. It makes them a bit more flavorfull. so, If I was making a "Red" sorceror, I would give them plenty of of fire and electricity, but also Fear, Shatter, Haste, and so forth. But, Illusion spells simply dont fit the theme, no matter how good shadow evocation would be. A good builder can maintain flavor without loosing power, and while certain choices might be "sub optimal," they are never "stupid"
I thought that Nualia might be easier to run with a minor tweak: favored Soul instead of Cleric. also gives her access to Touch of Madness via eberron's single-domain-for-adepts-rule.
NUALIA CR 5
Female aasimar fighter 1/Favored Soul 4(Lamashtu)
CE Medium outsider (native)
Init 1; Senses darkvision 60ft.; Listen +2, Spot +2
DEFENSE
AC 15, touch 9, flat-footed 15
(+6 armor, 1 Dex)
hp -38 (1d10+4d8+10)
Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +6
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
OFFENSE
Spd 20ft. (30 ft. base)
Melee +1 bastard sword +9 (1d10+4/19 20) and
claw +3 (1d6+1)
Ranged composite longbow +-3(1d8/H3)
Special Attacks: Mark of Lamashtu (DC 14, 1d4 cha penalty)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th)
1/day daylight
Spells/day: 6/7/4(CL 4th)
2nd bull's strength, Touch of Madness (DC 15), shatter (DC 15)
1st cure light wounds, divine favor, protection
from good, shield of faith
0 cure minor wounds (2), detect magic, mending
Domains Madness
TACTICS
Before Combat If Nualia suspects combat is imminent, she casts bull's
strength and shield of faith on herself.
During Combat Nualia activates her Sihedron medallion as a free
action at the start of combat to gain false life and casts divine favor.
She prefers to fight her fights with her bastard sword, her face an
impassive mask save for her eyes, which blaze with anger. She saves
shatter to use on any weapon that seems to be particularly dangerous
in an enemy's hands.
Morale Nualia fights to the death.
STATISTICS
Str 16, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 15
Base Atk +4; Grp +7
Feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Lamashtu's Mark, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bastard sword), Weapon Focus (claw)
Skills Concentrate +5, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (religion) +3, Ride +2
Languages Common, Celestial, Goblin
Other Gear +1 breastplate, +1 bastard sword, Sihedron medallion, masterwork composite longbow with 20 arrows, gold
holy symbol (100gp), 7 pp, 5 gp