I'd go with a rogue/sorcerer/prestige bard (the latter from Unearthed Arcana, also found on the SRD, so it's open content). Use one of the Paizo bloodlines for sorcerer melee powers, and be sure to pick up the Arcane Strike feat that Saern recommended as well as Practiced Spellcaster to boost your caster level. You'll have some sneak attack capability, more spell slots than a normal bard, access to more offensive and personal buff spells, and the charisma for your Perform synergizes nicely with the sorcerer spells.
I DM for a half-drow (Possibly homebrewed) bard 12/swashbuckler 3, and her main role is to trip and disarm with her whip. She also buffs like crazy, usually using Haste, and Mirror Images and Displacements.
The half-drow I made up is just like the half-elf, but with +2 to Bluff and Intimidate (instead of Diplomacy and Gather Info), +1 to Hide and Move Silently (instead of Search, Listen, and Spot) and Darkvision 60 feet (instead of Lowlight vision).
She isn't a powerhouse in combat, but she makes everyone else a whole lot better. She is also the secondary healer (the druid being the primary.....at least until the DMPC Aasimar Healer was introduced).
Is it possible to make a very effective combat bard?
I'd say probably not.
But I'd also say few players creating a bard are trying to be effective combat participants. More than any other class, they fill a support role.
I don't see a problem with that. I'm not going to make a cleric if I want to fill the role of a thief, and I'm not going to make a bard if I want to be a capable combatant.
Just an idea, only slightly off-topic. I have always found bards to be "support" characters, and very rarely "front-men", barring an exceptionally role-playing/subterfuge campaign. A "regular" bard faces an immense challenge to be combat-strong. However, there is one area where the bard can morph into a very powerful character. One can use the bard class to qualify for ur-priest very fast, essentially allowing one to achieve ninth-level spells at either 15th or 16th level (I forget the details). Sure, one is not really a bard anymore, but one is a very effective spellcaster, with one hell of an opportunity for a nackground story as to how one got there...
We broke the bard without using a single prestige class. It was giving everyone in the party +8 to hit and damage and there were alot of archers in the party (3-4?) including the bard. With rapid shot and haste it was feral. The Bard done arond 50 points of damage per round but spread out over the whole party on average it was about 150-200 points maybe more. It was sicker than the infamous 3.0 Cleric Archer build as every PC in the party was an archer apart from the Dwarven Defender who stood there holding off any few survivors that made it through the arrow barrage.
|
It all depends on what you mean by effective in combat. If you mean you want a Bard who can deal massive damage, its not likely. There are things you can do to improve your survivability in combat.
Like using the Longsword, but can't use Weapon Finesse with it, and find the Rapier less usefull? Spend a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency-Elven Thinblade(Longsword's damage, Rapier's criticial and damage type, Finesse weapon).
Don't wade into melee if you don't have to. You get access to a crossbow, plink the badguys untill they've made it to close-range, then go melee. Additionally, consider carrying three or four crossbows and keep each of them loaded, then just move your speed away from your enemy, fire one, and put it away. Investing in Rapid Reload helps here.
Invest in the Dodge and Mobility feats to boost your AC. Mobility is oft-overlooked, I find it exceptional for its +4 to AC vs AoO, as it makes it easier to get away from trouble.
Remember your spells, they're not much for dealing the hurt, but they allow you to control the flow of the fight. Bad guy about to turn you into to salami? Use any number of state effects on him and back off. Also, remember that your Cure spells deal damage to undead, if you find yourself facing them. Wands & Scrolls are also handy in this regard.
Remember your Countersong. Countering enemy spellcasters makes for a great advantage when your party enters combat. "Magic Missle!" "I don't think so." "Okay... FIREBALL!" "Not this time."
Bardic tactics may be different, but that doesn't make them less viable. Finally, remember that the Bard is ment to be a Jack of All Trades; you can do a little bit of everything.
If you mean "combat bard" in the individual sense, yes, it can be done, but its not that impressive when compared to other classes in terms of "personal combat power".
Now, if by "combat power" you mean the total amounts of damage/victory/success that happened because of your presence in the fight, its so easy to come in tops with a bard that its laughable.
Some things that come to mind:
There is a feat for humans and half elves from races of destiny, taken at level 1, that allows your bardic music to provide +1 on top of normal bonuses. Likewise, there is a level 1 spell that does so as well. A human bard who takes a level of sorceror could, at level 3, take Dragonfire Inspiration from Dragon Magic. Which would allow said bard to grant +3d6 fire damage to every attack made by allies. And, if he wanted to, he could stop that song, let it continue on its own for five more rounds, and then add +2 to attack and damage as well.
I've seen Tasha's Hideous Laughter end fights incredibly fast. Granted, the -4 cross creature type penalty hurts, but whats worse is watching the evil monk drown to death because he failed the save in a shallow pond.
So yeah, my opinion: if your going to play a bard, don't be afraid to count every other person's hit that landed just by the bonus that your music provides, and don't forget to count the extra damage your music gives on the ones that would have hit anyway. The bard shines by making other's shine, just make sure they're willing (or force them) to bring you out on stage after the performance for the victory cheer.
The only bard I ever played was a "Rage Singer" that's a nifty title for an evenly multiclassed Barbarian/Bard.
I got the skillz (lol) the rage, the extra movement, and buffing spells. I was pretty happy with it until he was eaten by a green dragon.
Obviously, there's the Character Optimization boards:
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-67002.html
The only bard I ever played was a "Rage Singer" that's a nifty title for an evenly multiclassed Barbarian/Bard.
Hey, that's a "Bardarian"! ;) I created one, but never played him. He did make a suitably annoying NPC later though...
The only bard I ever played was a "Rage Singer" that's a nifty title for an evenly multiclassed Barbarian/Bard.Hey, that's a "Bardarian"! ;) I created one, but never played him. He did make a suitably annoying NPC later though...
Fafhrd?
no...just an incredibly annoying always off key half orc with a song in his heart. His perform was drums, but low wisdom always led to his singing along...like a terrible greenish jack kerouak(sp?)...only with a greataxe.
Honestly, variant bards are good (see Harbinger out of the dragon magazines, I forget which one).
Seeker of the song is great, but takes a while to get into. Honestly though, I'm surprised no one suggested the Dirge Singer Prestige class from the Libris Mortis. And the Complete Mage has got some great general and bardic feats. (melodic casting is great).
As far as actual combat is concerned, use the whip to its full advantage. Get the wounding enchantment and take combat reflexes with a good dex modifier and "hit, trip, get up, smack, trip" to your heart's content (or until your DM decides to DM-smite you)
A good combat bard is possible, you just have to think harder and be a little more creative than you would be with a typical "hack n' slash" character concept.
If you can't make a decent Bard you're not trying hard enough. Probably the 5th best class in the PHB behind Druid/Clric/Wizard/Sorcerer.
My favorite character was a straight bard and she was always on the front lines and one of the most effective in combat. It comes down to one thing, really. Put your dexterity before your charisma. DMs always seem more willing to give out items that boost charisma rather than anything they consider "useful" in combat, so it's doubtful that you'll take a real hit on that score.
There are plenty of feats (most already listed here) that allow you to use dexterity to excellent advantage in combat. Since I don't stray far from the core rulebooks in character creation, I can't recommend a wide array of PrCs, etc, but I do suggest one must. Pick up Complete Scoundrel and study your skill tricks. While a lot of them are useless for anyone but a rogue, many of the combat skill tricks are useful for anyone that can qualify, and a bard is so easy to overlook in the average fight that they can take the time to use these skill tricks to the best effect.
Sorry this post was so uncrunchy. It's late and I'm tired.
I've never played a bard before, but I'm interested. The campaigns I usually play in tend to be very combat-heavy. Suggestions?
Rebuild all your levels as <insert any other class here> and take some singing lessons.
"Is it possible to make a very effective combat bard?"
It is probably not possible to make a bard that is as effective in combat as a Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin or Ranger.
If the question is "Is it possible to make a very effective bard?" Then, in spite of all the shouting from the crowd, the answer is definitely yes.
None of the base classes "suck", some are just a little harder to optimize.
Most of the time, it seems like people try to force Bards into some kind of Fighter/Mage role or play them as good-looking buffoons, that aren't really useful. The truth is that Bards have a slew of unique abilities only available to them.
Played correctly, Bards are almost brokenly powerful. If a Bard takes the spell Glibness, there is literally almost no situation they can't bluff their way past, except of course unintelligent monsters.
There are lots of examples of this sort of thing. The trick to making a useful bard is to stick to spells, skills and feats that accentuate the abilities that other characters don't have. Focus on sonic abilities, abilities tied to charisma and counterspelling. You wouldn't usually have a wizard wielding a Greatsword and roaring into melee, right? Same goes for Bard, make sure you understand their role before building the character.
Yes, it is possible to make an effective bard, but he needs friends.
Glitterdust. Hideous Laughter. Grease. Just about any bard can shut down his opposition. Then just let your friends do the actual killing.
Yes, it is possible to make an effective bard, but he needs friends.
A bard/mindbender makes a great villain or anti-hero, BTW. Talk about a "captive audience!"
Glitterdust. Hideous Laughter. Grease. Just about any bard can shut down his opposition. Then just let your friends do the actual killing.
I Love Glitterdust! It's one of the most underrated 2nd lvl spells.
I just started playing a bard in a campaign. I picked Hideous Laughter (devestating at a high DC) and Distort Speech out of the spell compendium. (if used properly this spell can be a caster's worst enemy)