Okay so the town lord hires some adventurers to go recover an item from a dungeon for him. What's the going rate? Seriously, this has always been a hard one for me. I've usually just pulled numbers out of the air and said things like "This is a little lower than average..." or "Wow, what an incredible offer!" when the players inevitably ask "So...is that good?"
I mean is 1000 gold a lot to give out for an adventure? Is it too little? 500? 5000? 50? What?
I guess it's weird because I have no context, no guidelines on what an adventurer should earn. Gold doesn't really feel like money to me, and there's such vast discrepencies between what regular folk have versus monsters, versus NPCs, versus PC's. It just doesn't seem real to me. I can't quite get my head around it. For example, the DMG says a mercenary works for 2sp a day. Yikes! I know THAT'S won't work as a good baseline!
So I ask you all--what's a fair paygrade for adventurers--preferably in terms of "X amount of gold per character level". That way I can go...well a 3rd level character can expect to earn 1500 gold (500 per level) but it's a particularly dangerous job so he'll throw in an extra 500 each.
The amount of compensation, whether it be gold, magic, or other rewards is in my opinion, subject to the type of campaign you run. Some DMs really are generous and offer a lot, others are stingy and the PCs barely hold their own. Other things to consider is the rate of advancement for your campaign as well as if you have the PCs pay to advance a level (training). It also depends upon how many PCs you have in the group.
In my campaign, I advance the PCs very slowly, far slower than in the Players Handbook, so in the long run they probably have more money than the average campaign. I also use a lot of 1st edition modules and try and not change the treasure to much as well. This inflates the wealth of the campaign. Of coarse I find other ways of balancing things out.
Now in regards to what the lord, mayor, or whoever offers the PCs gold for returning a magic item from a dungeon, say at 1st level, in a campaign using the advancement given in the Players Handbook (unmodified), I'd say 500 gold each would be appropriate, plus they get to keep say 50% of the take from the dungeon as well, with the exception of whatever it is they are retrieving.
If they ask why they don't get everything in the dungeon, the lord would point out taxation, rights to the land, etc. if he's outfitting the PCs with equipment that they can keep, that would have to be paid for as well so that could account for some of the money. It is difficult to justify not giving the PCs the entire dungeon take however so this isn't for everyone.
If you know that the dungeon is going to provide them with a lot of wealth you may want to consider having the lord simply offer them the job without pay and give them everything in the dungeon save what they went to retrieve. The contents of the dungeon is their pay. Without the lord telling them where the dungeon is, they don't make any money, so in that sense, yes they are paid.
The DMG (page 135) provides level by wealth if you want to try and use those figures. If your characters advance a level every 1-3 games, I'd maybe offer each PC half of the amount shown on the chart.
Just some ideas...
The DMG sets out wealth by level guidelines that could probably be used to make a good guess on what a noble might offer a party of adventurers. I don't think, in standard D&D, that this can be translated into X money per level because the cost to hire 20th level adventurers is going to be higher then 20 times any reasonable amount one might hire 1st level adventurers at. 20th level PCs expect to do something nutty like a million gp worth of business before 21st level while first level PCs might well be over compensated with an offer of 1000 gp.
If you hate the DMGs wealth by level guidelines then I suggest taking 3 or 6 magic items that would each represent an appropreate reward for the players of about this level in your campaign, see what they cost and kind of average that. This should represent roughly whats good value for their work in gp.
The award money should be included in the treasure total for the adventure when calculating against the standard awards for the encounters. If you want to offer an award, then reduce the treasure found (usually from the "incidental" treasure not being used by the PC's foes).
The amount of the award depends on the level of the PCs, the difficulty of the adventure, and the means of the person/organization offering the reward. A rule of thumb I use is based on the Wealth by Level guidelines in the DMG. If an adventure provides enough XP for the PCs to go up one level, then the reward should be less than half the amount (usually 25% at most) of the amount they would need to gain. Cash awards will likely be smaller than items, gems, property, services, etc.
I like to try and cheat the players. The NPC makes them an offer and they either take it, barter the fee up, or refuse.
A really honest benefactor type NPC will, of course, be fair, but as a rule of thumb, in my games, the wealthy are wealthy for a reason: because they are shrewd and cheap in their expenses.
When a player OOC asks me if the offer is fair I tell them the value of a year's rent and the annual salary of a few trades around town to give them an idea of what other people are making and let the players judge from that: "The Blacksmith clears about 300 gp a year/the basketweaver about 90....". Considering that anything PCs do is dangerous, the usual bartering technique for them is to say "I accept, provided you add 3000 gps in danger pay to be shared by the survivors, and all funeral expenses of deceased including a wake banquet." Then the dickering ensues.
Sometimes it depends on whether they get a percentage of the take, which for me can be downright stingy, actually, but they do ask about it.
Many small towns and fiefs cannot afford to pay what an adventuring party is worth. (Consider for example the NPC spellcaster rates and look at how many spells get slung in an adventure.) So I prefer to give out a small monetary reward coupled with a non-monetary reward. (As a rule, 50 or 100 gp per person times level is good for money in my mind.) Make up a list of things in advance, and then consult as needed.
Example Rewards:
*a small farm or building
*free meals and stays at the inn (also removes upkeep issues)
*a favor to be named later from powerful NPCs
*defrayed or free healing or raise deads (up to X per person, where X is a certain number of adventures like 2-4 for heals and 1 per party member for raise dead)
*identify the next twelve items for free
hmm; this is an interesting question; one I have pondered over and over considering what there is to purchase; how much will it take to entice the characters; how much money would any such persons who would hire pc's really have at their disposal; would the pc take a few cows and pigs instead. What services would be provided and thier worth compared to the risk involved and would any diety be willing to aid a cleric to aid said adventurers outside of thier religion; all kinds of details come to mind with no real solution; though, it is always intersting to sit back and listen to parties argue about whether or not to take a job and if they should or should not accept gratuity.
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It also depends if the PCs are being sent to recover known treasure, or are going someplace where a treasure horde is likely to be kept. In such a case, the local lord might give them a little money upfront (I think 100 gp x level is a good formula, as suggested above), and will allow them each to claim a share of all treasure found. It's nice to have the lord offer to pay for supplies upfront (like horses and food) as well (though I usually like to RP the haggling scene with the hiring entity).
EDIT: Ah, Kruelaid already touched on this aspect of payment, above.
hmm; this is an interesting question; one I have pondered over and over considering what there is to purchase; how much will it take to entice the characters; how much money would any such persons who would hire pc's really have at their disposal; would the pc take a few cows and pigs instead. What services would be provided and thier worth compared to the risk involved and would any diety be willing to aid a cleric to aid said adventurers outside of thier religion; all kinds of details come to mind with no real solution; though, it is always intersting to sit back and listen to parties argue about whether or not to take a job and if they should or should not accept gratuity.
This is the whole reason I am completely disillusioned with the coinage, cost of magic items, and magic item frequency in 3.0 and 3.5. Player characters arise above even most wealthy people's yearly salary in the first adventure or two if you use the standard 'per level' wealth tables. By level three or four they have so much gold to throw around they are buying minor magic items. Suddenly it becomes a magic item fest where an evil fighter they are battling drops a +2 longsword but everyone in the group has better by level 8 or so and this item gets handed to a henchman.
The real problem lies in the fact that by the time you're level 7 or so if you arent wielding a +2 sword half the monsters in the book that you fight have a DR 10/+2 rating so they are trying to force you into turning your campaign into a "made for kids" Monty Haul type loot fest.Keeping coinage and treasure down makes it "special" when you do get a decent sum or a nice item and it keeps incentives for the PCs to keep adventuring (hopefully your plot plays into it more but some characters it just doesnt).
I play low coinage and relatively moderate on the magic items. I'm not super-stingy but I dont exactly hand the paladin in the party a holy avenger by level 9 either. I run into scaling monsters to the party all the time because of this. I try to then make a side adventure or two where hte PCs can acquire the 'keyed weapons of demon slaying' to handle the monsters but this ploy can get tiresome because the mechanic of needing 10 items per character is so broken.
The key to me would be twofold. 1) How much is the "key" item worth? No noble worth the title would pay more than half that cost, because he could hire mages to make one at that price,
Interesting. Statements like this are why I think rules such as magic item creation shouldn't potentially be used to override an adventure scenario, if used at all. Nothing kills the whole point of adventuring more than to know (in theory at least) that an NPC could simply manufacture away any losses he may ever suffer.
I think the prices for the manufacture of magic items should be so expensive that it causes even kings to hesitate at the thought of having to commission the manufacture of another item similar to the one that was lost or stolen. This would put the value back into the adventure focus items, and make adventuring the higher priority, as it should be imo.
I think the prices for the manufacture of magic items should be so expensive that it causes even kings to hesitate at the thought of having to commission the manufacture of another item similar to the one that was lost or stolen. This would put the value back into the adventure focus items, and make adventuring the higher priority, as it should be imo.
However, this runs contrary to the inherent math and assumptions of D&D (with the possible exception of 4.0) that you need items to round out characters and provide abilities.
The key to me would be twofold. 1) How much is the "key" item worth? No noble worth the title would pay more than half that cost, because he could hire mages to make one at that price,Interesting. Statements like this are why I think rules such as magic item creation shouldn't potentially be used to override an adventure scenario, if used at all. Nothing kills the whole point of adventuring more than to know (in theory at least) that an NPC could simply manufacture away any losses he may ever suffer.
I think the prices for the manufacture of magic items should be so expensive that it causes even kings to hesitate at the thought of having to commission the manufacture of another item similar to the one that was lost or stolen. This would put the value back into the adventure focus items, and make adventuring the higher priority, as it should be imo.
This bumps into a couple of problems.
OK the PCs realize that they have priceless loot. So what if they then decide to have an auction? You've already established that the items are priceless - but maybe the PCs will be really humble and only go with an asking price of 80,000 gp for that +1 short sword that the, now dead, thief used to own.
Where the heck did all these magic items come from? Even in a low magic world you can't really excite PCs with +1 leather. It just is not shiny no matter how rare magic is. Their basic abilities have made this item such a tiny fraction of their powers that your not going to get their blood racing unless you pump up the loot at least somewhat. Unless your willing to actually make your game less fun to play in order to be consistent. So eventually they are going to be toting around a fair number of priceless magic items? So who made all this stuff?
If magic is rare and priceless your forced to make all interesting NPCs that are supposed to be the PCs peers ex-Adventurers. The world is friggen crawling with ex-adventurers. It gets insane. 1st Edition was like this. You could not turn around without bumping into yet another ex-adventurer. Every third retail establishment was run by ex adventures - if the establishment is an inn or tavern then the chances that the owner is an ex-adventurer rises to 9 out of 10.
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in my games, the wealthy are wealthy for a reason: because they are shrewd and cheap in their expenses.
So you're not DMing a psuedo-medieval campaign then? One in which you're born into wealth and can hold onto it simply by being vaguely competent and having a few competent employees...
Petty nobles just squeeze the locals when they get short.
Even in the modern world most of the wealthy people i've met were born into privilege and hold onto it despite being pretty average souls.
As for the nobles' offer - how much does this noble know about adventuring? How much does he think is reasonable? Why would he be an expert on spell component costs and magic-item creation? I tend to go with something like; take a years pay for his military chief, add half as much again, offer to each party member.
Unless the noble is a bit strapped at the time...
However, this runs contrary to the inherent math and assumptions of D&D (with the possible exception of 4.0) that you need items to round out characters and provide abilities.
I'm not totally against magic item creation, if you're going to use magic items in your game, someone or something has to make them, right? I just have it so as to be difficult to defray any manufacturing loopholes using a creation system might bring (such as the one above).
Don't get me wrong; I'm all for the idea of NPCs creating magic items for the PCs to find on their adventures. Given how outnumbered PCs are in relation to the number of possible NPCs out there that can manufacture magic items in any given campaign world, the possibility of discovery of magic items on adventures is far more likely in my games then to spend the time, money, and energy making one.
Unless it happened to be a very specific item a PC wanted to create, his chances of discovering the magic item, in my games at least, is fairly decent, and significantly cheaper. Much more dangerous to be sure, but hey, that's what they've chosen to do.
I don't know. I just find the manufacture of magic items distasteful, and prefer to leave it in the background via the NPCs. I always have.
Yuck. I resist the idea vehemently that there's some kind of special awesomeness about adventurers that makes them the only guys who have cool stuff. You get this same spiel in every D&D book you pick up. It's just bunk. The world is what it is, and you get from it what you get from it. The idea that PC's are the only ones who find the magic gems that seem to be under every rock and behind every brick in the "typical" D&D game are victims of too rigid application of slanted, ridiculous rules to that effect in the DMG. Sometimes that book just makes me laugh. A PC is a character in the world, just like an NPC. He gets the same breaks, has the same advantages, takes the same tumbles. That only makes sense.
As for how that effects magic items, I can't see them being these huge priceless items--for one thing that whole reasoning is wrongheaded. You make the item priceless so that the lords or whatever are armbarred into having PC's go questing for said item when it's inevitably stolen. Urgh.
Magic items are nice. They're magic spells that you can wave around without even having to once look at a spellbook. They aren't priceless heirloom anythings. They work best when they're functional and fun, something for characters to enjoy or for badguys to oppose them with.
There's too much gold in D&D. The gold per level in the DMG is just crazy. Prices for things are ridiculous. A standard mercenary cohort gets 2 sp a day, remember. PC's having 100 gold is time for celebration. That's a few months of no work, staying in nice inns and feasting whenever you like. A magic item that costs 300,000 gold to buy should never have been made. No one will ever pay that. Never. Even transporting 300,000 gold would be laughably hard. That's heavy!
That said, the game being what it is, players expect to be paid in the hundreds to thousands of gold for whatever they do. Partly I think that's because as DMs we don't give our players an adequate sense of what a gold peice is worth. It's a room for the night, with a meal and beer. In our world it's something akin to $50. Players, however, see g and think $. 100g = $100. Therefore they expect to be paid like that. Were this not an established Campaign Setting, I might scathe them with the idea that they're getting 10 silver for the job and they should be happy to get it. On the other hand, it's not. It's Pathfinder. So I'm trying to find a road of reasonability between what they might honestly be expected to earn, and gold as is handled in the setting.
I like the idea of 50-100 gold x character level. High level characters might not be thrilled by it, but then that's part of the pressure to retire from adventuring and start building a legacy. No one is interested in paying a hoary old adventurer a 100,000 gold to do anything, no matter how legendary he is with a sword. Honestly most folks are whispering to each other why he hasn't just gotten married yet...