Contributor
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I had an idea last week for a writing contest and this seems like a good place/time to share the idea.
Harrowing Tales: 5-10,000 word short stories. Each one must be based on one of the Harrow Cards. Don't know how well it would actually work on a message board (that's a lot of reading) but I thought it was a neat idea when I had it.
I don't know how good 5-word short stories would be. ;D
Ah, the orc and the pie, It's become sucha deeply ingrained part of my D&D tradition, I've used it as the first game of many, and I have introduced plenty of people to D&D and now to Golarion.
The last time our group pulled the you-all-meet-at-an-inn cliche, it was at The Orc and Pie. :)
I had an idea last week for a writing contest and this seems like a good place/time to share the idea. Harrowing Tales: 5-10,000 word short stories. Each one must be based on one of the Harrow Cards. Don't know how well it would actually work on a message board (that's a lot of reading) but I thought it was a neat idea when I had it.
That's the coolest thing since sliced beer.
Mike
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I would love to see Pathfinder novels if the quality is as good as the current stuff.
On a side note, they could open a Fanfic forum. Privateer Press did that for Iron Kingdoms and it went over pretty well for them. Some of the fic is very good, much of it is ok and some of it... well not everyone can be writers. But I think a fanfic forum would be a good idea and help people get and stay interested. Any time people can feel a part of something(like the open playtest is doing) I think it can only be good for the company.
What is an Iconic?
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1st - To the extent that persons presently employed by Paizo with full time jobs would be doing the writing, that writing would be a species of "taking the eye off the prize." To point out the painfully obvious, Pathfinder must succeed as an RPG before it can gain any traction as a setting for game fiction. Absent a Dragonlance-like phenomenon, Paizo's ability to pay the bills will depend on Pathfinder the RPG more than Pathfinder the setting for game fiction. Paizo's employees need to be focused on the Pathfinder RPG not writing novels or short stories.
Short stories do not take anyone's "eye off the prize."
2nd - To the extent that persons not presently employed by Paizo might be tasked with writing the game fiction, the question to be asked with the fiction is - will they materially advance the sales of the core line of RPGs which pays the bills? Given the RPG is and will be for the foreseeable future in its infancy, the answer is "no." Paizo needs to release products to define the setting and has a healthy release schedule to that end. Adding novels will misdirect interest from the game to the fiction. Fiction at this point is the wildest sort of cart before the horse.
Except that one of the finest examples of gaming literature, a novel destined to become a classic, The Crystal Shard, was writen by an outsider to TSR when a now famous campaign setting was in it's infancy.
3rd - Game fiction has a tendency, particularly among fans who like game fiction, to drive setting development. If fans like the fiction or if the fiction is compelling enough, many want the game to reflect this. The novels then come to drive the development of the game. This takes the player out of the equation to a degree as the feeling is that the NPCs of the fiction are the real movers and shakers and not the PCs. The Forgotten Realms is the best/worst example of this. For this reason, game fiction is always problematic.
Do you know why Forgotten Realms suffers from novel advancement? Because WOTC puts out 10+ novels a year vs 3-4 supplements. These supplements barely covered the major gaming locations of the Realms and didn't update much of anything, they barely got the new stuff right and in other areas completely dropped the ball because of bad editing.
Novels drive the setting because there's an overwhelming amount of outsider attention being put into them then there is internally. After the FRCS got published, Wizards should have farmed out the supplements to a 3rd party company capable of putting out many supplements. Instead they chose to do it internally with people that didn't know the setting well on expensive paper, with expensive ink, and ridiculous covers which drove the development, production, and retail cost to idiotic levels. Add in the fact that people stopped buying them because of the poor editing, it's a wonder they only released 22 supplements, 6 of which where adventures.
You can have good adventures in a setting that don't alter the setting. If you're going to novelize a major event, it should be special and something you only do once every 10 years (real time.)
Those of us that want fiction want to get immersed in the setting with the interesting characters they've already introduced us to. Fiction allows these characters and this world to come alive in a way table top play can't.
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3rd - Game fiction has a tendency, particularly among fans who like game fiction, to drive setting development. If fans like the fiction or if the fiction is compelling enough, many want the game to reflect this. The novels then come to drive the development of the game. This takes the player out of the equation to a degree as the feeling is that the NPCs of the fiction are the real movers and shakers and not the PCs. The Forgotten Realms is the best/worst example of this. For this reason, game fiction is always problematic.
The Forgotten Realms is indeed a prime example of a place in which the fiction seems to drive the world. But that does not mean that game fiction can not be done right.
IMHO, the Warhammer world is a great example of a place where the fiction adds to the world but does not drive it. The fiction of Warhammer and WH40k, of which I have bought both good and bad, have very few game-world consequences. Instead the fiction mainly seeks to capture the flavor of the world or describe events that have already been chronicled in the mythology of the game. Thus novels describing big events are mostly in the past and end in accordance with history and the novels and short stories that are set (in-game) in the present deal with smaller events of less consequences.
Following these guidelines I would think that Golarion would be ripe for novelization. Authors just need to be given firm direction in what is allowed and not allowed.
I agree with the Pathfinder Novels idea surrounding the Iconics. A Trilogy for each different Adventure Path. No fan fiction.
I agree, give the Iconics completely unrelated adventures. I'd like to read the fiction, but it would ruin the adventure path.
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I don't know how good 5-word short stories would be. ;DI had an idea last week for a writing contest and this seems like a good place/time to share the idea.
Harrowing Tales: 5-10,000 word short stories. Each one must be based on one of the Harrow Cards. Don't know how well it would actually work on a message board (that's a lot of reading) but I thought it was a neat idea when I had it.
Doom!
PERIL!
Mountains of gold!
But I love the idea of a Harrow writing contest, I simply adore the Harrow cards :)
I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus. I've been reading the first three Dragonlance books after being exposed to them via the Dragonlance animated film and some graphic novel adaptations, and it's gotten me a lot more interested in the details of the Dragonlance setting. I realize the setting is falling by the wayside with Wizards' new agenda, but reading the Pathfinder adventures has got me psyched about running them. I came in on the ground floor as an old Dungeon/Dragon subscriber, though, and there are undoubtedly others who have never been exposed to Rise of the Runelords that would be drawn in by a trilogy of novels and seek out the AP much like I plan on seeking out the Dragonlance adventures that inspired the novels/were based on the novels.
So not only would I be interested in buying Pathfinder novels, but I think they'd earn a place on the local bookstore's shelves near the Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms books... maybe not in the Dungeons and Dragons section, but Golarian breathed fresh life into goblins with the very first volume. I think DnD and fantasy fans would enjoy a trip to Golarian, especially with so much interesting background already out there for all of the iconics--the elf rogue raised by humans is a character I'd definitely love seeing in print.
If the Pathfinder authors are already stretched to the limit, maybe the answer lies somewhere between fan fiction and formal authorship. Paizo could hold another contest, similar to the "Who Wants to be an RPG Superstar?" contest, or they could just take open submissions from anyone that wants to play in their sandbox in the form of story outlines and writing samples.
I realize people have been making suggestions to Paizo left and right with regard to the new Pathfinder RPG, proposing changes that range from a tweak here to a full-on proposal there and they must be getting twitchy at this point, so I don't expect Pathfinder novels to rank highly on their to-do list. All the same, I think there's a golden opportunity here to beat Wizards of the Coast at their own game by using all the love we Paizonians have for Pathfinder to expand Pathfinder even further from the humble adventure paths they started out as into a niche that rivals fan-favorite settings like Dragonlance. Paizo has the potential to succeed where Wizards has already failed, and that's in creating a community out of a game. Wizards of the Coast inherited 30 years of community and we've all seen and felt the effects of their stewardship; Paizo, on the other hand, has flourished in the months following the cancellation of Dungeon and Dragon magazine and grown a community of its own that, despite hundreds of differing opinions about the rules of Pathfinder RPG, still retains a sense of family and community that the 4e debate most did not have.
I've been something of a jabberjaw lately on these boards, throwing my two cents in just about everywhere, but that has a lot to do with how passionately I feel about this little community that Paizo and Pathfinder are growing. I hope my overwhelming enthusiasm for Paizo hasn't completely buried my overwhelming enthusiasm for Pathfinder novels.
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:)
The problem with a novel contest is they don't have time to read all the submissions and said submissions would be lengthy.. much longer then the stuff for RPG Superstar. Now with Pathfinder RPG on the rise, I suspect they have even less time then before for more contests, particularly this kind.
All we can do is keep bothering them and maybe they'll move things forward. Either way, a novel takes 6-8 months to churn out... and that's for an experienced novel writer that "knows" the setting.
I would probably sell a body part for the chance to write a PF novel.
-Amber S., already missing several body parts
Here's my thoughts/take on Pathfinder fiction...
First, do it. It would be a great way to introduce people to the world and thus have a chance of getting them into the game. It's been done in other books much like this. For example, Battletech has many more readers of novels than they do players of games. Personally, I read Forgotten Realms novels long before I started playing games in the realms. There is some real, long-term, marketing value here.
Second, use new media to make this all the more awesome. Here is where my personal take as a podcaster (TheTomeShow.com) becomes all the more unique (although I got the idea from Mike Stackpole's discussion of the subject at GenCon, where he said that some gaming company should do this and watch the numbers). Make a Pathfinder fiction podcast. Release the novels and/or short stories in audio format for free as podcasts. Talk about exposing the world to the setting/game! Podcast novels tend to draw huge numbers of listeners (even ones that aren't very good).
Hell, I'd be willing/ready/eager to produce this myself if Paizo wanted to do it.
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Good to hear Mike is still kicking around, haven't heard/seen anything from him since he was really active with the Star Wars novels. I feared he went back to teaching and gave up on writing.
Hmm dunno about the Pathfinder fictional podcast.. for me I'd want a quality product, like the Star Wars radio program from back in the day.. not just a voice reading the novel with occasional music in the background.
But you're right, fiction does open up the setting in ways supplements can't. I also exposes existing fans to the setting in ways the supplements never will. The only thing they have to be careful about is allowing the novels to eclipse the supplements and until we see as many novels coming out (or more) as they're releasing supplements, there's nothing to worry about.
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Another thing to consider. While a series of Novels might cut into some of the PRG products in the short term. In the long term it would give Paizo another source of income and a way to draw in more customers. So it would allow them to more easily stay profitable and grow as a company. So long term i think Novels would increase the amount of RPG products we would see and not hurt quality and help Paizo as a whole business wise.
But yes short term i do think it would decrease the number of RPG books. But the more they diversify the better in my mind. It only makes the company stronger for it.
But then I am a bit biased, I would love to read Pathfinder novels.
I'd buy good Pathfinder novels & anthologies in a second.Especially if they got Matt Forbeck,Robert Earl,Dan Abnett,Don Bassingwaite,Rich Wulf & Paul Kidd.
Hmm dunno about the Pathfinder fictional podcast.. for me I'd want a quality product, like the Star Wars radio program from back in the day.. not just a voice reading the novel with occasional music in the background.
Hmm. Good feedback.
Here's what I know. An audio drama requires a lot more work than a simple audio book, at least if it was to be done well, which, of course, is how I would insist that it is done. There are professional sound effects, voice talent, and rewrites of the original story that have to be done (written fiction doesn't work as audio drama on it's own without some tweaking). An audio book with a podcast-like release, however has some advantages, where it's faster and cheaper (author reads, producer produces, very little rewriting needed, done). Audio books (i.e. the 7th Son trilogy) can bring in tens of thousands of listeners if the content is good. Audio dramas tend to be less popular, although this probably has more to do with the amount of time/effort required to produce one well.
Here's what I believe based on my experience in the industry. The numbers don't change significantly if it's a fully realized audio drama or a simply produced audio book. Ultimately, the tech savvy corner is getting a free story in a setting and genre that they love and Paizo is getting more exposure for it.
These are the reasons I would actually stay away from audio drama, if it was me, and go with a simple audio book.
My vision is that the books be fully realized, published works of fiction, that are also released as a podcast. The numbers are still coming in on this, but the initial data would suggest that a free podcast of a novel does not harm print sales and is likely to actually drive a small number of listeners to buy the print copy.
As a Forgotten Realms Refugee, I know I'm hoping for Golarion to fill in that void. I don't think I'm alone in that. The fiction was what allowed the FR to become a "living" setting rather than just a collection of statistics and thumbnail descriptions. The fiction brings one down to "street level" and establishes an emotional bond between the reader and the characters and world.
WotC churns out 12-15 Realms novels/anthologies a year...no need to aim for anything like that with Golarion fiction, though. 3-4 novels a year would do just fine, provided they're good. I'd recommend having both iconics and non-iconics as characters, and *not* basing the novels on the adventure paths or modules.
I'd also love to see a Pathfinder comic book series, but I'm not sure how feasible that would be...Paizo already has a fiction-publishing arm, but comics are something different. Maybe a webcomic?
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As a Forgotten Realms Refugee, I know I'm hoping for Golarion to fill in that void. I don't think I'm alone in that. The fiction was what allowed the FR to become a "living" setting rather than just a collection of statistics and thumbnail descriptions. The fiction brings one down to "street level" and establishes an emotional bond between the reader and the characters and world.
Exactly. I'm glad I'm not the only one to say it.
Further, I don't want Paizo "churning" out 12-15 novels a year. That's half the problem 3E faced with the Realms, there were more novels then supplements, and the supplements they did release didn't even cover the new events (or in other cases, completely messed them up.)
Keep Pathfinder supplement driven but bring in the novel love for flavor.
Side note, the attack on Sandpoint would still make for a good story.
Here, here, I totally agree, and I would love to buy them if they did get them out, 3-6 times a year.
Pathfinder fiction is inevitable.
And resistance is futile.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Pathfinder fiction is inevitable.
I can't wait. Well, I can, but I don't want to. For the meantime, keep the Eando Kline material coming, as that's the only fiction we've got so far. In fact, I'd more than support Eando himself as the subject of longer format, non serialized fiction.
Pathfinder fiction is inevitable.
Just remember, Erik, I'll happily kick other, more qualified, writers in the knees to get them out of the way so I can write fiction for you. Happily.
-Amber S.
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Contributor
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I would love to WRITE Golarion fic.
^_^
(Now to just hope Erik sees this.)
*just read this weeks later* Mike McArtor, I love you. In the way that guys who love the same kind of stuff love each other. Um, yeah. ^_^;;;
please don't take that the wrong way XD
Anyway, having reread the original post, I throw in my two coppers for Golarion stories about the iconics, or for that matter about anyone. But especially the iconics. I like them. They grew on me in a way that the PHB iconics never did even remotely.
I can feel the love. ^_^
Also, to those folks who seem concerned, it should be noted that Pathfinder fiction would IN NO WAY negatively affect the release of Pathfinder game materials. They'd be something we'd do in addition to our normal RPG release schedule, not a replacement.
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As long as there is a subscription option for Pathfinder fiction I'm down with it. ;-)
-Alfred
Come Join the PathfinderWiki!
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I don't know how good 5-word short stories would be. ;DI had an idea last week for a writing contest and this seems like a good place/time to share the idea.
Harrowing Tales: 5-10,000 word short stories. Each one must be based on one of the Harrow Cards. Don't know how well it would actually work on a message board (that's a lot of reading) but I thought it was a neat idea when I had it.
Started it, never got through. ;)
At my place of employment (a bookstore) we're all doing 6-word memoirs (based on the book by the same title) mine was "Happily married geek out for justice." (I just got my AAS in Criminal Justice and hope to be a police officer in the next couple of years, the rest should be self-evident) It's amazing what you can say with just a few words.
Just felt the need to resurrect this thread and let the good Paizo staff know that I am very interested in some Pathfinder fiction.
Cheers
Ok, Pathfinder fiction is inevitable.
As long as it doesnt alter cannon please. Thats what did the realms in for alot of folks, myself included.
Late Edit*** Just saw James Sutter's post, thank you. :)