For Runeforge it's a bit muzzier. It's easy to get the PCs back to Sandpoint by just dropping a big hint that Mokmurian was trying to get at a powerful magic item underneath the Old Light, or by having Sandpoint call for help. But clueless PCs may not figure out the riddle, or may not want to go to Runeforge.
In my game, Xaliasa recruited the PCs to go to Runeforge as his agents. I moved the Runeforge gate to Sandpoint to make this easier. Maybe that would work for you? You can save the white dragon encounter for later, such as en route to Xin-Shalast.
You could also replace the riddle with explicit notes from Xaliasa about his desire to get to Runeforge and seize the weapon-crafting power of the Runeforge Pool for himself.
We actually had much more trouble cueing the PCs to make runeforged weapons; they were initially sure that the faction leaders already had some, and focused on taking the leaders' weapons. I think I had sages at Windsong Abbey recommend the weapon-forging route to them. There is also a Thassilonian scholar in Sandpoint who might nudge them.
As part of getting the PCs to Xin-Shalast, I had Karzoug try to recruit them when speaking through Mokmurian, and he challenged them to come to Xin-Shalast to prove themselves worthy of being Mokmurian's successors. This got them thinking in that direction. The scholar in Sandpoint has information that could help. (My problem, again, was keeping my PCs from heading there immediately after #4.)
If your players really do not follow cues, maybe you could find an NPC to act as their patron and send them to these places. If any of them are religious, a high priest of their faith could work well. There is room for such a person in Magnimar or at Windsong Abbey.
Mary
Thanks, that helps alot. Sorry about the miss post.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The alu-fiend stat blocks mention that they position themselves in flanking position to allow for sneak attacks. However, they don't have sneak attack. Did this get cut?
Just as a note, this adventure had more editorial mistakes than I expect from a Paizo product. I wish I'd marked them as I was reading, but I remember noting a few things like the sneak attack reference. This may just be a function of being a high level adventure with a lot of moving parts, but wanted to raise the issue in the interest of constructive criticism.
The sinspawn in Wrath have had +6 added to their axe damage and +3 to their bite damage for 3-point Power Attack, but have not had 3 subtracted from their to-hit.
Mary
Maybe I'm a little late here. My group doesn't play as often, so we're not as far through this first path yet, I've only recently read through this module. I have a bit of a problem with one character in my group... a Soul Knife. This character pretty much doesn't need or use any normal weapons. She carries one, but it's only been needed a couple of times where I modified some encounters to make manifesting her weapon more difficult.
My quandry is what to do with the Runeforge. All the other three characters will probably end up with enchanted weapons, but not the Soul Knife. I haven't read the last module yet, so I don't know how important having a Dominant weapon is, though the current module seems to indicate it will be a not insignificant advantage. Even if the Soul Knife ends up with a forged weapon, it won't be very useful in the last module. I've toyed with the idea of giving him a forged potion that will reproduce the Dominant effects for one encounter, or maybe a couple of them... if there are multiple points the weapons are useful. I've also toyed with allowing the psionic weapon to do what a runeforged weapon does (minus the spell absorption)... but until I read the last module, I'm not sure if that ends up being overpowered. I hate to have this character feeling left out at the conclusion of the module, but I'm not sure exactly how to remedy it without having weird balance issues later.
I have a smaller issue in that none of my characters are excessively sinful. None of them have been overly greedy. The Soul Knife, in particular, being a psionic character tends to be moralistically very neutral. The cleric is also neutral, but follows the god of war (can't remember the name at the moment) so might have some wrath issues, but that's about the only one. The party also doesn't include a Sorcerer or Wizard, so I'm a little worried how tough these last two modules will be for them.
I'm having some problems with The Scribbler's stat block that might be a result of not having access to the templates with which he was created. Maybe someone can help me out ...
1) Initiative modifier should be +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Divine Swiftness)
2) AC should be 21 (+8 armor, +1 Dex, +2 natural). Where does the +4 deflection that is listed in his block come from?
3) Falchion's to hit modifier should be +14/+9 (+6 BAB, +4 Str, +3 enhancement, +1 weapon focus). The block has +15/+10, what am I missing?
4) If The Scribbler has Improved Critical, the falchion should be (2d4+9/15-20). However, with a measly +6 BAB, The Scribbler doesn't qualify for this feat.
5) Just out of curiosity, why does The Scribbler have fast healing 5 and all his immunities? Are these from his various templates? It's just nice to know.
Thanks.
O
My last post seems to have vanished ... so a quick repeat:
The Scribbler should be:
Init +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Divine Swiftness)
AC 21 (+8 armor, +1 Dex, +2 natural) [+4 deflection?]
Falchion +14/+9 [+6 BAB, +3 enhancement, +4 Str, +1 weapon focus] (2d4+9/15-20) [This accounts for Improved Critical (falchion) a feat that The Scribbler does not qualify for.]
What am I missing?
Also, why does he have fast healing and all his immunities? Are they part of the templates?
o
Regarding the elementals on Xin's Stairway ...
Are these guys lurking on the landing or some distance up the stairs? The text reads that "Anyone who climbs these stairs immediately attracts their attention," but does that mean that they will start down the stairs to deal with the intruders? or do they wait for the intruders to reach the top of the stairs?
I ask because it has a direct relation to the difficulty of the encounter: if the elementals start flinging PCs off the stairs, it is important to know how high up they are. Maybe I should see how badly Arkhryst messes the party up before deciding how the elementals react.
Creative Director
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Regarding the elementals on Xin's Stairway ...
Are these guys lurking on the landing or some distance up the stairs? The text reads that "Anyone who climbs these stairs immediately attracts their attention," but does that mean that they will start down the stairs to deal with the intruders? or do they wait for the intruders to reach the top of the stairs?
I ask because it has a direct relation to the difficulty of the encounter: if the elementals start flinging PCs off the stairs, it is important to know how high up they are. Maybe I should see how badly Arkhryst messes the party up before deciding how the elementals react.
Them being elementals... they're likely lurking inside the stairs or the stone walls nearby. Which means they can pop out of the stairs right in the middle of the party if they (you) want.
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Creative Director
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My last post seems to have vanished ... so a quick repeat:
The Scribbler should be:
Init +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Divine Swiftness)
AC 21 (+8 armor, +1 Dex, +2 natural) [+4 deflection?]
Falchion +14/+9 [+6 BAB, +3 enhancement, +4 Str, +1 weapon focus] (2d4+9/15-20) [This accounts for Improved Critical (falchion) a feat that The Scribbler does not qualify for.]What am I missing?
Also, why does he have fast healing and all his immunities? Are they part of the templates?
o
His falchion attack and initiative are indeed off by one point. And he doesn't qualify for improved critical with the falchion, true. I'd switch his Improved Crit feat over to Improved Initiative, probably, if I were to go back in time and correct this.
AC: I suspect that at one point, he may have had shield of faith prepared, and we took it away from him but unfortunately forgot to back it out of his AC.
He does indeed get fast healing and immunities from his template.
Thanks, James.
It should also be noted that The Scribbler is kind of a push-over if the PCs can tackle him without any back-up. His AC and hp are low enough that, in my campaign, he never even finished casting his buffs. If he is counting on his summoned friends to protect him, he needs to summon some beasties that can actually hit the PCs once in a while and do some damage, or PCs will just run around them and smack The Scribbler in his milky eye.
You might think the ability to dimension door anywhere in the complex would save him, but it's a hard decision to "leap" out after you've cast all your buffs, which will have expired by the time the PCs find you and then, you guessed it, smack you in your milky eye.
In retrospect, I should have had the Scribbler leap into the fray while the PCs had their hands full with Yaenit-Ku and his evil twin brother Skippy, but I was afraid that would push things over the edge into a TPK. ah, well. Live, learn, and post my warnings to others. That's my motto.
O
Is the web enhancement out yet? Either it's not, or I'm just failing my check to navigate the Paizo website.The web enhancement is not out yet. Sarah's laying it out Right Now, though. After which point we do a few editing passes on it and then it'll be good to go. I suspect mid next week it'll be ready.
Where can I find the Web Enhancments?
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Creative Director
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Thanks, James.
It should also be noted that The Scribbler is kind of a push-over if the PCs can tackle him without any back-up. His AC and hp are low enough that, in my campaign, he never even finished casting his buffs. If he is counting on his summoned friends to protect him, he needs to summon some beasties that can actually hit the PCs once in a while and do some damage, or PCs will just run around them and smack The Scribbler in his milky eye.
You might think the ability to dimension door anywhere in the complex would save him, but it's a hard decision to "leap" out after you've cast all your buffs, which will have expired by the time the PCs find you and then, you guessed it, smack you in your milky eye.
In retrospect, I should have had the Scribbler leap into the fray while the PCs had their hands full with Yaenit-Ku and his evil twin brother Skippy, but I was afraid that would push things over the edge into a TPK. ah, well. Live, learn, and post my warnings to others. That's my motto.
O
Well... on one point, the Scribbler's not supposed to be a throw-down edge of the seat "we barely made it" fight. His MAIN purpose in the adventure is to show the PCs the way to the big dungeon. Any fight he gets in with the PCs isn't the point.
Also: After dealing with the spells and traps and monsters in the dungeon, and assuming the PCs have used up some resources, the Scribbler isn't as much of a pushover.
AND: If the PCs get to be tough in battles now and then, get to FELL high level and powerful... that's good. Thats IMPORTANT. If every battle is an edge of the seat fight for life... then the PCs never feel like they're getting better or tougher. They feel like every battle is as tough as when they were first level, and never get to feel bad-ass. Which is unfortunate.
Now and then... the PCs SHOULD face pushover monsters.
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Creative Director
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Where can I find the Web Enhancments?Is the web enhancement out yet? Either it's not, or I'm just failing my check to navigate the Paizo website.The web enhancement is not out yet. Sarah's laying it out Right Now, though. After which point we do a few editing passes on it and then it'll be good to go. I suspect mid next week it'll be ready.
The only web enhancement we've done is posted to the blog. We don't have an easy way to get to it yet, alas... but it was posted on Jan 28th.
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Creative Director
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My question comes from the Thassilonian Rune magic. Overall, I like them and the flavor they give to the campaign. Most of the runes seem to give the bearer of the rune a power or ability, except for the Rune of Obedience. The Rune of Obedience (pg59) seems geared toward giving the proscriber of the rune power over the person receiving the rune. What would be the benefit for the bearer of the rune and why would any player want to get this rune?
There's not many reasons a PC would want this. The only one I could think of is that perhaps he gets captured by a powerful spellcaster and as an option against execution he can gain a rune of obedience and become that spellcaster's minion.
It's not meant to be something a PC wants, really. There really IS no real benefit for having this rune, apart from taking it instead of taking some worse punishment from your master. Since PCS rarely if ever have masters like this... it's not a good PC rune.
It's GREAT for NPCs though!
For Runeforge it's a bit muzzier. It's easy to get the PCs back to Sandpoint by just dropping a big hint that Mokmurian was trying to get at a powerful magic item underneath the Old Light, or by having Sandpoint call for help. But clueless PCs may not figure out the riddle, or may not want to go to Runeforge.
I'm starting to suspect that I'd be one of those clueless PCs. The real motivation behind everyone going to Runeforge seems divided up among a few entries in a couple different books and my brain is missing whatever part it needs to put them all together.
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So...Karzoug wants the Runeforge destroyed because it contains the only tool capable of defeating him. Big K knew of a traitor to him who knew the secret of Runeforge, so he tasks Mokmurian with finding the spy's former home and obliterating it so there'd be no clues leading anyone to Runeforge.
The PCs, of course, stop the giant's plan before that happens but, thanks to the villainous Golarion habit of keeping diaries, they know that he was looking specifically for a traitor with information about the "Runeforge". Assuming the enemy of their enemy is a friend,the PCs go searching for Xaliasa to find out why Karzoug (or at least Mokmurian) is interested in this Runeforge.
Putting together the Scribbler's rhyme, the PCs track down the location of Runeforge and learn the "trick" to unlocking it. Inside, they get another handy diary entry that explains that a couple of the Runeforge bosses were scheming of a plan to defeat Karzoug themselves by combining their magic into their Runeforge to empower their weapons with abilities that Greedy McWantit can't defend against.
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Is that about it? Do I have any of that right?
Putting together the Scribbler's rhyme, the PCs track down the location of Runeforge and learn the "trick" to unlocking it. Inside, they get another handy diary entry that explains that a couple of the Runeforge bosses were scheming of a plan to defeat Karzoug themselves by combining their magic into their Runeforge to empower their weapons with abilities that Greedy McWantit can't defend against.
I don't think that last sentence is supported by the module, though it makes sense and would certainly help guide the players forward. As far as I can tell, it's true that Vraxeris, Athroxis and Delvahine were conspiring to break out and stomp Karzoug in some way, but the runeforged weapons don't really feature in that plan. I'm not really sure how the players are supposed to find out about forging the weapons. I resorted to just having someone tell mine. (And then he refused to do it, leading to the long thread on virtue-forged weapons somewhere on the boards.)
Our group's experience of Spires of Xin-Shalast was that after all that fuss about runeforged weapons, they didn't matter much. The ability of the runeforged weapon to defend against certain environmental hazards wasn't significant, since they had to find alternative defenses for all the other PCs anyway. And the direct combat effects proved totally irrelevant. No one struck a blow against Karzoug in melee anyway.
Pragmatically, the PCs go to Runeforge to gain levels and treasure. If they didn't need those, it would be better to go directly to Xin-Shalast.
One way to play it would be to emphasize finding allies, not weapons, in Runeforge. My PCs ended up allied with Athroxis, and that worked pretty well for us. (Once the Wrathlings get a few more levels they are quite a respectable force, if you have the force of will to keep them in line.)
Mary
Pragmatically, the PCs go to Runeforge to gain levels and treasure. If they didn't need those, it would be better to go directly to Xin-Shalast.
One way to play it would be to emphasize finding allies, not weapons, in Runeforge. My PCs ended up allied with Athroxis, and that worked pretty well for us. (Once the Wrathlings get a few more levels they are quite a respectable force, if you have the force of will to keep them in line.)
Mary
What would be a good way to go if I did not even want to run Sins of the Saviors? Is there a Gamemastery adventure for that approximate level, and does anyone have any suggestions as to how to integrate it into Rise of the Runelords in place of Sins of the Saviors?
The Curse of the Crimsom Throne links have changed, so I'm updating these as well.
Chapter 1: Burnt Offerings
Chapter 2: The Skinsaw Murders
Chapter 3: The Hook Mountain Massacre
Chapter 4: Fortress of the Stone Giants
Chapter 5: Sins of the Saviors
Chapter 6: Spires of Xin-Shalast
I have a question in the Part Five:
The Ravenous Crypts it is Desecrated but here is my question
As the spell is it considered to have a shrine?
Spell Discription
This spell imbues an area with negative energy. Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area takes a -3 profane penalty, and every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.
If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power, the modifiers given above are doubled (-6 profane penalty on turning checks, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead in the area).
Thanks James
I might have to add one with the Radiant Servant of Sarenrae (Pelor) cause im pretty sure he will be nuking Undeads
Heres another question
On page 41 dealing with the four Alu demons in there tactics it talks about all getting sneak attacks but in there stat block i cant find any sneak attack
What am i missing Thanks again
Is the web enhancement out yet? Either it's not, or I'm just failing my check to navigate the Paizo website.The web enhancement is not out yet. Sarah's laying it out Right Now, though. After which point we do a few editing passes on it and then it'll be good to go. I suspect mid next week it'll be ready.
James what ever happened to Web Enhancements?
Can A PC get the Mark of Wrath?
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Creative Director
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Heres another question
On page 41 dealing with the four Alu demons in there tactics it talks about all getting sneak attacks but in there stat block i cant find any sneak attack
What am i missing Thanks again
They at once had levels in rogue, but those levels went away. Ignore references to sneak attack as a result.
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Creative Director
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Is the web enhancement out yet? Either it's not, or I'm just failing my check to navigate the Paizo website.The web enhancement is not out yet. Sarah's laying it out Right Now, though. After which point we do a few editing passes on it and then it'll be good to go. I suspect mid next week it'll be ready.James what ever happened to Web Enhancements?
Can A PC get the Mark of Wrath?
The web enhancement for Pathfinder #5 is out... but it's sort of buried on our website. I'm not sure where it's at right now...
Which is part of the reason why we're not doing many web enchancements for now; until we get that part of our website a bit more organized, at least. Furthermore, we actually don't really have the TIME to produce web enhancemnts; the monthly schedule of stuff we're doing pretty much prevents us from being able to do much more than the print products.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Mark of Wrath," though... if you mean the spells in magic of wrath on page 63 of Pathfinder #5... sure! Either the GM puts them in the adventure, or the PC pays for them, and presto! Hooked up!
Thats the Mark im talking about
Yeah I really wish you guys had more time to do web enhancments cause in the old Dungeon Magazine they were great
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Creative Director
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Ah... yeah. A PC can indeed gain the Mark of Wrath if one of the PCs deals the killing blow to Athroxis. If she dies through something else, like a summoned monster or an accident... the mark doesn't go anywhere.
And it would be nice to be able to do web enhancements more often... but the grim fact of the matter is that we've basically increased our monthly output of about 150 pages per month to something closer to 300 or so pages per month... all without increasing actual head count in the editorial pit from the magazine days. So yeah... not much time to do anything else than what we print.
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It should also be noted that The Scribbler is kind of a push-over if the PCs can tackle him without any back-up. His AC and hp are low enough that, in my campaign, he never even finished casting his buffs. If he is counting on his summoned friends to protect him, he needs to summon some beasties that can actually hit the PCs once in a while and do some damage, or PCs will just run around them and smack The Scribbler in his milky eye.
I just want to give a warning on this. I had read this post a while back and was expecting the fight against the Scribbler to be a piece of cake for my group. It wasn't. They fought him at the same time as Glabrezu (who did not manage to summon anything else), and the 6 Hounds of Lamashtu from the next room joined the fight after a few rounds.
It was a brutal fight... pretty much a TPK. At the end, only the group's ranger was left alive, facing 4 hounds. Everyone else was lying on the floor in the negatives. It was late so I just said "ok let's say the ranger killed all the dogs and dragged the rest of the group back up for some healing". It felt dirty and cheap, but it also felt completely ridiculous for our group to wipe on the very first fight of the adventure. :(
Of course, our group is not the most powerful in the world (4 PCs using core classes), so other groups will find the encounter not so difficult, but I want to give a word of warning for other GMs who might, like me, underestimate this fight based on the post above. Had I known, I would've reduced the number of hounds of lamashtu or found a way for them not to join the fight at all (their trip ability is nasty and they have a pretty good to-hit bonus ...)
Ah... yeah. A PC can indeed gain the Mark of Wrath if one of the PCs deals the killing blow to Athroxis. If she dies through something else, like a summoned monster or an accident... the mark doesn't go anywhere.
One of our PCs ended up with it--the absolutely perfectly right PC, too (Lel the Halfling of Wrath, we called him). I swear I didn't arrange this, it just happened.
After they brought back Athroxis from the dead so that she could lead their new Wrathling allies, it was interesting to see Athroxis' reaction to losing the Mark. She ended up willing to be Lel's second in command, though of course she was waiting for the right moment to challenge and beat him. Her old second in command, however, a Wrathling we named Pakkha, was disgusted to be demoted to third, and ended up plotting against Lel with the bad guys in Module 6. Not that this did him any good....
Mary
In area F10, it says a PC is dealt 14d6 Negative Levels. Is this correct? With the party at level 12 or 13, this is an automatic death sentence even if I roll all 1's.
In area F10, it says a PC is dealt 14d6 Negative Levels. Is this correct? With the party at level 12 or 13, this is an automatic death sentence even if I roll all 1's.
Actually, it doesn't say negative levels, it says negative energy damage:
All creatures in the room take 14d6 points of negative energy damage every other round (DC 25 Will save halves)...
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oops...
My bad aim with the buttons ended up editing Karlstar's post instead of replying. He asked a question about the white dragon, with its high AC and whether or not that it was over the top. And I accidently DESTROYED said post by clicking EDIT instead of REPLY. Doh!
Sorry about that, Karlstar! I did post a reply below, though, before I ruined your post! :(
(James Jacobs the Destroyer of Posts)
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Creative Director
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Dragons are tough. Their CRs are, as a general rule, too low; this was done on purpose to skew dragons to the tough side so they'd be memorable opponents.
This isn't necessarily a fight that's built for the melee guy to win, though—not every fight should be one where standing toe-to-toe and hacking is the best plan. Like many dragons, Arkrhyst's critical flaw is his touch AC; scorching ray in particular is a great spell to use against him (even with his fire resistance). Acid Arrow's good too because it even avoids SR.
Also, 8 points of his armor class comes from magic, and his caster level is pitiful. A dispel magic should quickly make short work of shield and mage armor, which drops his AC don to 31, a much more manageable number.
In short, Arkrhyst isn't intended to be a foe one fighter-type can take down. To deal with him, you'll need the entire party working as a team.
Of course, this makes a few assumptions: that there ARE PCs in the group who can fly or dispel magic or have touch attacks. This isn't at all an unreasonable assumption for a 12th level party, but if through chance or design your group lacks them, you should absolutely consider taking away the dragon's shield and mage armor spells. Adapt the adventure to suit your style of play and the style of your players.
Dragons are tough. Their CRs are, as a general rule, too low; this was done on purpose to skew dragons to the tough side so they'd be memorable opponents.
This isn't necessarily a fight that's built for the melee guy to win, though—not every fight should be one where standing toe-to-toe and hacking is the best plan. Like many dragons, Arkrhyst's critical flaw is his touch AC; scorching ray in particular is a great spell to use against him (even with his fire resistance). Acid Arrow's good too because it even avoids SR.
Also, 8 points of his armor class comes from magic, and his caster level is pitiful. A dispel magic should quickly make short work of shield and mage armor, which drops his AC don to 31, a much more manageable number.
In short, Arkrhyst isn't intended to be a foe one fighter-type can take down. To deal with him, you'll need the entire party working as a team.
Of course, this makes a few assumptions: that there ARE PCs in the group who can fly or dispel magic or have touch attacks. This isn't at all an unreasonable assumption for a 12th level party, but if through chance or design your group lacks them, you should absolutely consider taking away the dragon's shield and mage armor spells. Adapt the adventure to suit your style of play and the style of your players.
Thank you James, that pretty much confirmed my assumption, that the PC wizard will end up doing most of the damage - though Freemaw should know that and target him first.... Unfortunately, they only have one PC with ranged touch attacks, so this should be interesting. I'll leave it up to them to see if they remember Dispel Magic. I'm dealing with relatively new players facing their first 'real' dragon foe, wanted to make sure I wasn't lining them up for an unfair fight.
Simple question: Fireball + Ravenous Crypts = TPK. Yes or no?
Please Explain how this could be a TPK?
Damage to walls draws out wraiths. I have a party who likes their fireballs.Simple question: Fireball + Ravenous Crypts = TPK. Yes or no?Please Explain how this could be a TPK?
One Fire ball releases 1d6 Wraiths then the party better get smart and stop using fire balls LOL
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Creative Director
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Damage to walls draws out wraiths. I have a party who likes their fireballs.
Thing is, fireballs don't damage walls normally. Unless the spellcaster is specifically focusing on the wall, I guess. But unless your GM is in the habit of tracking damage on the environment from the start, and keeping track of how long locations can stand up to fireball damage and missed acid arrows and all that, it's not fair OR realistic to suddenly say that the baseline assumption of the game changes in one wing of one dungeon.
The design intent is to add an additional level of difficulty to attempts to dig through walls, not to punish people for playing the game in the same way they've been playing the game for the previous 11 levels.
I made the level tougher by adding Coin Golems from one of the Goodman game suplements makes the over all level much more difficult I covered it in my changes to 6 players thread
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I made the level tougher by adding Coin Golems from one of the Goodman game suplements makes the over all level much more difficult I covered it in my changes to 6 players thread
Thanks, I missed the coin golems part. I fully plan on using your Kazaven enhancements for 6 players, but I'm thinking I have to change his spells a bit too. Some area of affect stuff maybe.
I've got a puzzler.
My players want to loot the demon-spider silk from Delvahane's pavillion in the Iron Cages of Lust.
Anyone have any idea what the encumberance or selling price for these would be?
