Where do I find the rules for the minor runewells(making sinspawn) in the Anniversary Edition?
The rules on page 425 do not explain the intricacies of how this process works.
I really really wish it did.
I believe that the original books to explain this. I did not by the original books.
So I was reading through the recent discussion about destroying the minor runewell under Sandpoint in this thread and I realized that I made a few amateur mistakes when running this part of the AP for my PCs. First, I mistakenly revealed that it could be destroyed and the ritual would require filling it with holy water and boiling it for 24 hours, and the PCs then worked with Father Zantus to perform the ritual while guards watched over for the 24 hour period.
Now I'm not sure how we actually played it out (can't remember), if I explained that it was utterly destroyed or if it was deactivated or what. I'll admit that I was fairly green (and still am) when it comes to GMing. I've since learned that I tend to reveal too much information, requiring some retconning of past events (never good) when I get to later parts of the AP. Now I've learned to read ahead in the AP to make sure nothing comes back to bite me, but I'm still stuck with what the players think is an inactive (destroyed) runewell. They think that chapter is closed.
As GM, I know I can basically do what I want (though I am loathe to stray too far from the...er, ahem...*guidelines*). I am considering, when it comes up later in the AP, having the PCs discover the magic within the runewell was simply too powerful and/or evil for the simple ritual performed by Father Zantus and that though he deactivated it temporarily, it simply couldn't be destroyed by such amateur divine power. Do you think this is fair to do to my players? They didn't really expend any party resources, but I'm having a hard time justifying it since it's my mistake that created the situation.
Considering they didn't spend over 100K gold for holy water to boil in the well? Having them only temporarily deactivate it works fine.
It is a moot point as its reactivation in Book 5 collapses the area so the well becomes buried and inaccessible.
How intricate do you need, Karlgamer?
Step 1: Put blood in runewell.
Step 2: Sinspawn pops out.
Step 3: Get eaten by sinspawn, since you don't actually control it.
How am I suppose to know any of this?
Because the encounter with the Quasit explains a bit of this. The information on the Runewell explains some more.
Pages 37-38 of the Anniversary Edition has some on the Minor Runewell, as does page 424-425. In fact, there is a vital point on page 424 that you should note - concerning deaths of "wrathful" entities and "charges" for the minor runewell.
Alright guys, I found it. For some strange reason my eyes jumped over this part.
A minor runewell can also be commanded to disgorge a
sinspawn. To manifest a sinspawn, a creature need only allow
a few drops of its blood to fall into the pool. One round later,
a sinspawn emerges from the well and immediately attacks the
closest creature in which it cannot scent wrath. Each use of a
minor runewell in this manner costs 6 wrath points.
A little embarrassed here.
I'm sure I read this part. I guess I was just up late and my brain wasn't working right.
The last paragraph under Runewell, Minor is all I needed. Sorry if I wasn't being clear enough.
No problem. Even the most expert of GMs will forget things, miss paragraphs, and so forth. Heck, my running of Runelords (and Reign of Winter) is replete with me forgetting abilities of monsters and the like. I've started double-checking stats before running the game just to try and refresh my memory and hopefully catch things. And sometimes I STILL forget 'til the combat has run for a bit.
(Two embarrassing bits was forgetting that the Paladin's Aura of Courage only provides a +4 to saves vs. fear for nearby allies, not immunity - and that Paladins are immune to Phantasmal Killer. I made both mistakes in the same combat.)
No problem. Even the most expert of GMs will forget things, miss paragraphs, and so forth.
I once forgot about the Split ability of Black Pudding until the fight was almost over.
Well, that escalated quickly.
Okay this seems like a pretty good question, but no one has asked it yet and that worries me.
C19 THRONE ROOM
She may also use her wand of silent images to create an illusion of a curtain dropping down between her and the rest of the room, providing herself cover she can use to shoot arrows at anyone who fails to see through the illusion
Doesn't silent image immediately end when they use their bow?
Possibly before they use their bow if they have to draw their bow.
LOL. Totally missed that. Silent Image does indeed have a duration of, "Concentration" and concentration is a standard action, so the warchanter could draw her bow (move action) but not fire it (standard action). Must be a holdover tactic from the 3.5 days (you'll find a few of those mentioned throughout the GM threads).
I always wondered (and this is probably a Rules Forum question) whether a caster can see through his/her own image -- nothing I've read indicates that they can, so how does the warchanter shoot through the illusion? A slit in the curtain? Or does the fact that she cast the spell give her an auto-save to see through it?
I forgot to even USE the Silent Image in that situation. It was hectic. ^^;;
Wouldn't she automatically save against her illusion?
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others.
Ruyan.
Mind you, it's important to remember that illusions aren't exactly selective. I had one of the most hilarious moments in Reign of Winter when the PCs, knowing they had set off an alarm, created the illusion of a fallen tree (Silent Image). The bandits rounded the corner... and saw this huge tree across the path.
They KNEW it couldn't be real. And yet every. single. one. rolled really low for Will Saves - especially as they couldn't interact with the illusion, and the distance (and snow) caused problems with perception checks.
At which point it dawned on me. This was also true for the PCs. And... um... every single PC promptly failed his or her Will save and were convinced that somehow this tree had appeared in front of them. One PC blew four straight Will Saves (one per round) to try and see the tree as an illusion.
Admittedly, the caster had an 18 Intelligence, but still! ^^;;
So Silent Image can be fun. But remember, both sides have to make savings throws!
Wouldn't she automatically save against her illusion?
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others.Ruyan.
That's my assumption (and we shouldn't derail an AP forum with an extended discussion, but I like the occasional off-topic chats that pop up on these threads. On the other hand, maybe that's just me...), but it's one of those things that has always bothered me: If the caster CAN'T see the illusion, how does he/she manipulate it? If he/she CAN see the illusion, why isn't he/she affected?
I guess I have to imagine it like a video game special effect: The illusion is translucent but there, so the caster can see through it without a save and still manipulate it, but everyone else (friends and foes alike, as Tangent points out) sees it.
And Tangent, that's actually fairly common. In a battle with Shining Children our bard put up an illusion of a stone wall between the party and the "children" to block their blinding flashes. So the party truly and desperately WANTED to fail their saves so that they WOULDN'T see through the walls.
Ah, the entertainment of illusions. Will they never cease?
Must be a holdover tactic from the 3.5 days
I just checked both my 3.5 and 3.0 books and in both the duration is concentration, and concentrating is a standard action.
I thought maybe it had something to do with the wand being a Spell Trigger item but looking up that
so how does the warchanter shoot through the illusion? A slit in the curtain? Or does the fact that she cast the spell give her an auto-save to see through it?
Well, the book doesn't say the warchanter is getting total cover, just cover. And this makes sense, if he/she shoots an arrow through the curtain and it fails to act appropriately that would count as proof that it was just an illusion. Everyone who saw that interaction would instantly disbelieve the illusion.
Or does the fact that she cast the spell give her an auto-save to see through it?
I would and have always assumed this. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to properly effect the other side of their illusions.
Silent Image is a Figment, which per the Illusion section in the Magic Chapter, remains as a Translucent Outline once disbelieved. In addition, an Illusion would be instantly disbelieved if a person is presented proof it is not real... I'd say casting the spell and visualizing it's existence before it appears is enough to give the caster an automatic disbelieve.
One note of caution... people only get saves against a figment if they interact with it, and just looking at it doesn't count as interacting. I usually rule that if they see it appear in an unnatural fashion, that qualifies as an interaction and they'd get a save. If they weren't in view when the image was cast (or in the case here, seeing a curtain drop which is fairly natural thing), they would have no reason to think anything was amiss until they interacted with their senses (noticed a fire had no sound, or an orc had no smell). I also usually give a PC who ID's the spell as it's being cast a save to pinpoint what the illusion is, since they know something illusory just happened.
In the case above w/ the wand, that's just odd... it would give her cover so as to not be a target from ranged weapons (although it would be hard to forget about the goblin "singing" at the top of her lungs, so many PCs would probably charge the curtain, and touching it would give them an auto disbelieve). But as soon as she used her standard action for something else, the illusion would end.
My players are going to the Glassworks next, and this thought just occurred to me: what prevents them to go right into the Catacombs immediately after the Tsuto's fight?
Please, don't tell me the answer is 'their common sense'...
My players are going to the Glassworks next, and this thought just occurred to me: what prevents them to go right into the Catacombs immediately after the Tsuto's fight?
Please, don't tell me the answer is 'their common sense'...
It doesn't really matter, since the Catacombs are part of the same chapter in Burnt Offerings and they're meant to be discovered and explored as part of that same encounter.
If your concern is that they'll be too beat up and unprepared, then, well, sorry to say, but that answer IS 'common sense'. If they aren't genre-savvy or don't have much system mastery it might take a little coercing from the GM to convince them they should at least rest first.
That shouldn't be too difficult, however, if they discover Ameiko and she needs help getting back to the Rusty Dragon. I mean, they aren't likely to just leave her there, right?
Yeah, I hope so. They're not even near to be able to defeat E with depleted resources.
If they're smart, once they're low on spells and the like they'll retreat, especially if they realize the Catacombs may not be abandoned... or may be larger than they initially expect.
One other method is to deliberately leave behind Tsuto's note and point them out to one of the players. You could even have Tsuto try to snag the notes and fail. (Hopefully you won't have what happened with MY group where one of the PCs immediately assumed "worker who was sleeping on the job" rather than "suspicious fellow" and woke him up demanding to know what had happened. Followed by an epic sequence of failed Sense Motive rolls. It took a Random Die of Fate having Tsuto try to kidney punch the Barbarian (and miss by 1) that cued the group in that this guy wasn't a worker. (Well, I think they knew. They just were good enough roleplayers that they couldn't act on it.)
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I've created a little replica of some of the pages from Tsuto's diary. If they capture him, they should find it. And maybe, just maybe, pay attention to the quasit part. I also put random drawings of Bruthazmus and Lyrie, just for fun xD
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My players are going to the Glassworks next, and this thought just occurred to me: what prevents them to go right into the Catacombs immediately after the Tsuto's fight?
Please, don't tell me the answer is 'their common sense'...
"Player characters" and "common sense" are not concepts with any natural affinity.
Some lessons need to be learned the hard way. Good experiences come from good judgement. Where does good judgement come from? Bad experiences.
Silent Image is a Figment, which per the Illusion section in the Magic Chapter, remains as a Translucent Outline once disbelieved. In addition, an Illusion would be instantly disbelieved if a person is presented proof it is not real... I'd say casting the spell and visualizing it's existence before it appears is enough to give the caster an automatic disbelieve.
One note of caution... people only get saves against a figment if they interact with it, and just looking at it doesn't count as interacting. I usually rule that if they see it appear in an unnatural fashion, that qualifies as an interaction and they'd get a save. If they weren't in view when the image was cast (or in the case here, seeing a curtain drop which is fairly natural thing), they would have no reason to think anything was amiss until they interacted with their senses (noticed a fire had no sound, or an orc had no smell). I also usually give a PC who ID's the spell as it's being cast a save to pinpoint what the illusion is, since they know something illusory just happened.
In the case above w/ the wand, that's just odd... it would give her cover so as to not be a target from ranged weapons (although it would be hard to forget about the goblin "singing" at the top of her lungs, so many PCs would probably charge the curtain, and touching it would give them an auto disbelieve). But as soon as she used her standard action for something else, the illusion would end.
Creating the silent image of a curtain strikes me as a strange illusion to start after the PC's enter the room. Seems much more effective to put the illusion of a curtain in front of the commandos (who know it's an illusion and have bows) if the alarm is raised and to use it to support her ghost sound "allies are comming" tactic if needed once combat starts.
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Personally I reward coming up with creative solutions to problems, and I would definitely allow the method discussed to work in destroying the Runewell.
Having said that, before the PCs started spending money and effort, I would say, "If you do this, you will not experience the Rise of the Runelords adventure path. No dangers will rise and you will essentially live the rest of your lives as farmers."
If that's what the players decide, upon having full disclosure, then so be it.
I plan on replacing the shadows in Thistletop's dungeon level (E6) with two shriezyx. While the shadows make sense from the complex' backstory I doubt the PCs will ever make the connection.
The shriezyx fit the theme of the ruin, are the same CR and offer a more conventional combat situation (and are less/un-known to my players).
Has anybody ever done this and can share her experience?
Ruyan.
Guys, shouldn't be Tsuto's flurry of blows +3/+3? He uses his monk lvl as BAB (+2) plus his Dex thanks to Weapon finesse (+3) minus the penalty left by Two Weapon fighting (-2) = +3. This is the first time I play a monk, and I'm not even near to be familiar with it.
I don't believe so, because he also has 2 levels of Rogue, which gives him a +1 BAB in addition.
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level.
So for the 2 monk levels, he gets a +2 BAB, but his 2 Rogue levels give him an additional +1, so it's +3 BAB, +3 Dex, -2 TWF, +4/+4 total.
If you're using Herolab, it doesn't do the calc right in the unarmed strike entry, but it is correct in the Anniversary Edition stat block.
Thanks a lot! I lack so much knowledge in multiclass melee u.u
This is actually not an uncommon mistake. IIRC, the original language in the CRB did not have the language of "his monk class", and it was changed as a result of a FAQ.
That makes sense; but, why is the entrance to the smuggler's cave from the tunnel-side a hidden secret-door, rather than from the outside only? My best guess is that it is a crude mechanism for opening (push hard at the base, or use an overt pulley system) essentially being a facade of stone on a central pivot that needs to be propped open to pass-through, and heavier on the bottom so it would auto-close... Still, during the day, I would presume that there would be light-leakage around the frame that would make the portal nearly obvious from inside the unlit tunnel (DC10?) Why would the portal need to be hidden on the inside? It seems more reasonable that a secret-door would have been in the basement of the Glassworks, and that it was either Disabled or removed in favour of bricking it up by Lonjiku's father. I understand the need to lead the low-level party into the Catacombs, without risking that they flub their Perception checks; so, I presume that Grampa just wanted to demonstrate his integrity by bringing in some masons; but, if that was the case, why wouldn't he also block-up the entrance/exit in the smuggler's cave (at least by disabling it from the inside---perhaps the wooden wedges deteriorated over the decades)?
Also, I have some similar queries about the entry-tunnel (aside from the gratuitous tunnelling in the complex itself) to the Catacombs: If the smugglers only just made penetration into the complex (even if it had been the Barracks) it seems reasonable that they would have kept it quite small, to minimize detection until they had reconnoitered the breach, so it seems strange that there is a long rough tunnel in addition to a cavern-room leading into the Catacombs... I would have expected a small hole (requiring a squeeze-through) into the hallway leading to B2, if not the room itself or B6. I could presume that the diggers may have built the cavern-room (B1) 'searching' for the Garrison basement and/or as a storage-area for their illicit goods, but it seems strange that there are three entries into the Catacombs complex, when they (the smuggler-sappers) would doubtless have only barely had a chance to make their first foray inside before they were justifiably repelled, and moved to brick-up their work... and that small entry-way would have been directly from B1 to where-ever the breech was initially made.
It would also seem natural that the statue in B3 be facing the hallway to the stairwell, since that was the original entryway.
Because sending men through the tunnel would have alerted it. Just having the one tunnel sealed meant it could be kept quiet and not risked anyone. And anyone breaking THROUGH the tunnel would alert people working above, in theory.
The lower level was used regularly so someone breaking in would be quickly found. Unless you had goblins with you to kill that person. ;)
I couldn't find an answer to this elsewhere, which makes me think its so obvious no one has needed to ask ... So I've probably missed something somewhere.
I'm currently dming Rise of the Runelords, and the party is about to finish Burnt Offerings, however they are stuck on the idea that they are looking for a necromancer. This is because they found the Robe of Bones in the Desecrated Vault.
Who actually left that robe there? Who used it to summon the two skeletons in the vault? I thought it was Tsuto be he has no means of using magical device from what I remember.
I pretty much read all of burnt offerings and a bit of the Skinsaw Murders ... Does anyone know how that robe got left there and who used it? I'm sure its a major oversight on my part!
Thanks everyone!
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Use Magical Devices is meant for using a device or scroll that you don't have training for; for instance, a wizard using a priest scroll or a thief using a wand of magic missiles. Robes of Useful Items and Robes of Bones have "patches" that function when used, so you don't need the UMD skill to use them.
Ohhhh! So it's probably Tsuto then lol I knew it was an oversight on my part! I love that my group thinks there is this necromancer to find. Thanks.
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Ohhhh! So it's probably Tsuto then lol I knew it was an oversight on my part! I love that my group thinks there is this necromancer to find. Thanks.
If you wanted to, you could create some trail of clues that leads to Barl Breakbones, necromancer in book 3.
Ohhhh! So it's probably Tsuto then lol I knew it was an oversight on my part! I love that my group thinks there is this necromancer to find. Thanks.If you wanted to, you could create some trail of clues that leads to Barl Breakbones, necromancer in book 3.
That's an amazing idea. I haven't read that far yet, but I will now and see if I can pull that off! Thank you for the tip!
Another idea might be to have the robe lead to the totally red herring character Caizarlu, who lives beneath Habe's Sanatorium (Ch 2, Skinsaw Murders). That character is already a red herring in that chapter but it could really drive the point home.
Nope, it was Tsuto. He left the skellies behind as a present for whoever opened up the tomb after him.
Yep. To quote the AE version: ...but Tsuto’s left a frightening surprise behind to further the campaign of terror against Sandpoint. After he stole Tobyn’s bones, he used a robe of bones to place two human skeletons in the vault as he left.
Which doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't work a necromancy theme into the story. Though in a strange way, the robe might actually be a distraction then since you don't have to have any necromantic ability at all to use it. Of course you do to build one... And where did Tsuto get it in the first place? Just more things that make you say Hmmm.
I'll pick up gaming with my group after six weeks this coming Tuesday.
My players are currently investigating Thistletop and they've taken out the gobbos on the main land so far.
Now they're prepping for the commandos on the island across the bridge and have no idea how to attack them without alarming the rest inside the fort.
They're rather light on ranged combatants (polearm fighter, ranger [with bow], inquisitor, cleric, rogue, all are lvl 3).
They know the bridge is trapped and can only be disarmed from the island's side.
With all the extra time on hand, it made me think how I'd tackle that question. So. How did your groups handle that situation?
Just curious whether I should prep additional stuff or not.
I usually give my monster max hp to have them have a slight chance of surviving 2 rounds in combat so they at least get to act once... - should I resign from doing so in this situation?
Ruyan.
I didn't mean to suggest that Caizarlu left the robe in the mausoleum, all I meant was that Tsuto had to have gotten it from somewhere, and perhaps that was Caizarlu.
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I'll pick up gaming with my group after six weeks this coming Tuesday.
My players are currently investigating Thistletop and they've taken out the gobbos on the main land so far.
Now they're prepping for the commandos on the island across the bridge and have no idea how to attack them without alarming the rest inside the fort.
They're rather light on ranged combatants (polearm fighter, ranger [with bow], inquisitor, cleric, rogue, all are lvl 3).
They know the bridge is trapped and can only be disarmed from the island's side.With all the extra time on hand, it made me think how I'd tackle that question. So. How did your groups handle that situation?
Just curious whether I should prep additional stuff or not.I usually give my monster max hp to have them have a slight chance of surviving 2 rounds in combat so they at least get to act once... - should I resign from doing so in this situation?
Ruyan.
Not sure this will help...
Gogmurt is going to tell the Birdcruncher goblins on the mainland they can join the tribe if they kill the longshanks. Unfortunately the Birdcrunchers don't know the bridge is trapped (and they're going to charge off before Gogmurt can warn them) Ten of them on the bridge at once is very likely to spring the trap. After he does a head slap, Gogmurt will hide on the far side waiting to hack the bridge down should any of the party try to cross.
The key point is the goblins are not a talented fighting force. They're not disciplined and not necessarily all that alert. No one's ever messed with them at Thistletop and they assume the bridge trap will defeat most enemies. If your PC's watch for a while they should notice no obvious watchers on the other side. The AP does a good job of describing the limited alertness of the goblins. Even if you significantly up the quality of their tactics - massing archers in the towers to shower the pc's with arrows as they cross, I suspect that will be a losing battle for the goblins. One 3rd level Ranger with a bow is going to start knocking goblins off pretty quick if they stick their heads up to shoot his friends as they cross the bridge.
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I have to say, Latrecis' description of goblin tactics (in the spoiler) is sheer brilliance.
THAT is how goblins SHOULD be played!
I love the Birdcrunchers running across the trapped bridge and triggering it :D
Thanks for all your insight, folks! I really appreciate it.
Latrecis, your ingame story made me smile. Nice description of tactics--on both sides!
I've played up to the goblins crazyness and non-sensical behavior a lot in the past, so this hopefully turns out to be another fun event.
Let's see how my group fares tonight.
Ruyan.
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Here are my thoughts on the storming of the fortress, RuyanVe -
Think of it this way: A scouting party of obviously superior goblins (say twenty with torches and mounts) returns, catching the party against the cliff, in the brambles. The players can't stand up straight, use ranged combat, and their melee is limited with no movement. Very very bad for the players. Roll initiative. But don't really use it. It just makes the players expect combat.
The goblins attack, excited to finish off the foolish longshanks, and then light the thistles on fire. Cause their goblins.
The goblins don't actually close the distance through the bramble tunnels to melee, or if they do, it's at most two. They end up not being able to actually attack the characters effectively either, and now the goblins inside are either gleefully loving all the burn (it should go up like a pyre) or fleeing further in, towards the players...even past the players.
Flaming goblins jumping from the cliffs. Brilliant.
This should convince the players not to be fools and jump. I picture the players saying screw it, we've gotta cross the unknown bridge, or burn to death...this brings fear, apprehension of what the trap is, pressure...all good things at a table.
Let them "safety" their way across as much as possible, and describe how rickety and shifting it is...they realize its about to give. But they've got two rounds, tops. Ten seconds. And make them fast rounds. No debating, no planning...just reaction. :)
As the last of them is halfway across it, a goblin who is on fire, of course, runs onto the bridge, burning the last of the remaining rope, dropping it into the ocean. The final character has to do a leap, the players have to scramble for a heroic save...and they watch as the other side burns a company of goblins alive.
They'll remember that a lot longer than any combat with rules. :)
No real combat. Just a dramatic situation, with tension and comedic moments, that should make them cautious inside at the size of the goblin tribe. They've been "forced" onto the island. The trap bridge triggered with them on it. And now the lethargic, pickle-eating goblins may be alerted, and slow-responding to the party. (I think goblins would rather watch the pyre burn than care that a party is at their doorstep).
And they can't retreat easily now...it forces some caution. They're here until they sort this island out, and the goblins know they're here...and initiative is already rolled.
And if the party gets in too deep, a cavalry from Sandpoint of the sheriff and two guards, or Shalelu arrives just in time to get a bridge up for when they need to leave or need help, having seen the enormous smoke cloud on the horizon. All totally unnecessary, but easily explained in a logical fashion, and planned out in advance.
:) Have fun gaming.
In the Catacombs of Wrath, is there a way into room B3 from the rough tunnel that also gives access to B1 and B2 (and B6, sort of)? It's not mentioned in the description of B3 (or anywhere else), and hasn't been clarified anywhere in this thread that I can find.
Also, what are the doors in the catacombs made of, in general? The three doors in B8 are described as being stone, but does that imply that the rest of the doors aren't (and thus are wooden)?