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Seriously. I didn't really like manga before, but the OP has convinced me of its merits. I believe I'll stop at the bookstore on the way home today.
Then by all means try to get your hands at Kentaro Miura's Berserk. great story, great artwork, great sword ;)
I remember a panel in volume 1 (i think), picturing Guts (the "hero") in the aftermath of a particularly gruesome fight. What really gave me the creeps was his broken finger, which didn't seem to belong to the rest of his hand (cannot describe it better, but I've never seen any other (be it western or eastern) artist able to describe the brutality of a fight by such a little detail.
Meaning: count me into the "Ignorants"-Camp who cannot see how untalented our beloved WAR really is ;)
I'm not a huge mangaphile, but if one doesn't mind adult themes and the ol' ultraviolence, Blade of the Immortal is a good one. It's like a nihilistic Kurosawa film.
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Seriously. I didn't really like manga before, but the OP has convinced me of its merits. I believe I'll stop at the bookstore on the way home today.Then by all means try to get your hands at Kentaro Miura's Berserk. great story, great artwork, great sword ;)
I haven't read the entire series (or, rather, what's been published thus far), but I'm kind of ambivalent about Berserk. There are definitely things to recommend about it, but sometimes I think it gets a bit much.
Then again, I suppose you could say the same thing about Akira, but it (the manga) is an excellent and worthy read.
As a fan of Miyazaki, I highly recommend Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind. No fan service, no ultra-violence, no sight gags, just good, serious storytelling. The movie's nice, too, but like Akira, the movie version only captures a fraction of the whole story--so I recommend the manga much more so.
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Ehh... the size of the pinna (auricula) isn't really what determines how well you hear. The pinna is certainly important as it acts as a funnel to collect sound, but the pinna is no way essential for hearing (but it does help to determine the direction a sound is coming from). The long point at the end of elven ears seem to have no real function.Sexual selection.
They just think the big ears are hot!
It's not the size of the "ear" that matters... it's how you use it...
As a fan of Miyazaki, I highly recommend Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind. No fan service, no ultra-violence, no sight gags, just good, serious storytelling. The movie's nice, too, but like Akira, the movie version only captures a fraction of the whole story--so I recommend the manga much more so.
I have the entire manga run of Nausicaa, and it's one of the greatest treasures in my long comic-reading history. The film offers the barest glimpse of its greatness, but is still quite enjoyable.
I'll take the chance to plug many other fine films by Miyazaki. "Spirited Away" deservedly won the Oscar, for example. But that's another discussion...
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And why do you deem me a troll, Azzy? Is it because I disagree with you that you ad hom me? Hehe!
Because you completely marginalize anyone's opinion that doesn't agree with yours. Also, you make blanket statements about art as if were an objective experience. It isn't. Art, by its very nature, is a subjective experience (from the artist to the audience).
Yep, a troll he is.I may not share your enthusasm for comics, but I have to agree with you on your assessment. It's almost like he's a huge Manga fan, trying to make sure that no one dares protest its use.
Well, at least he admits that some folks just have bad/no taste. I of course, will lump folks that like Gianni in the "bad" category, as his art isn't that good to me. So again it's important to understand one person's "bad" doesn't translate to the same rating for everyone. Of course, I don't really like most poetry (just say what the heck you mean), artsy art (don't paint a bunch of blobby color on a canvas and try to convince me your a genius) and Indie films (mostly low-budget wastes of my time when I could be watching something that's actually entertaining). So, that probably squarely puts me in the "no taste" category. Meh, I'd rather spend my brain power thinking about more important things than the edgy use of lighting in a picture I'm going to show my players maybe 1-2 times during a campaign...
All of these artists are ripping off the prehistoric cave painters.
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I'll take the chance to plug many other fine films by Miyazaki. "Spirited Away" deservedly won the Oscar, for example. But that's another discussion...
The great thing about the Ghibli films I've seen so far, is that there's something for all ages. The level of detail goes above and beyond the call of duty, unlike much of the manga and anime I have witnessed, which I find cuts too many corners to satisfy me artistically (re-used frames, static talking heads, 'go-faster stripes and posing' instead of actual fight scenes, etc).
That's not to say I can't enjoy manga/anime; simply that I have to look for some other angle than the art to satisfy me, such as a good plot or humour.Miyazaki, Otomo and Shirow are the exception that proves the rule, I find...certainly, Studio Ghibli seem to take the hard road on so many occasions, with so many of their films including panoramic flight sequences, for example.
'Spirited Away' is on regular play at our house, as my 3-year-old loves it. The parents being turned to pigs, the soot-sprites (also in My Neighbour Totoro), the dragon, the severed, bouncing, zombie heads, the radish-creature (in the lift), the giant baby, the regurgitated frog, the master of the baths doing his fan-dance (John Ratzenberger from Cheers!), and most of all...
Whats QFT?
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Well not technically Pathfinder, I count the Gamemastery modules in the same vein since it's the same campaign world...so far I've loved the art in D0, D1 and W (although I must admit Falcon's Hollow has some of the ugliest kids in the world but that might be intentional).
I don't know how you guys pick/find your artists or what artists would be 'in your league' but I might recommend Tom Raney (he did some work on Ultimate X-Men, specifically the 'Magical' storyline) and Talon Dunning (who has done WW, WotC, WEG, Kenzer) whose art I loved in the old Ravenloft S&S books.
Whoever did the art on Page 9 of D1 is really awesome too (I'm not sure which pics were done by which people)
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Part of the "generic" or "derivitive" criticism may come from computer coloring in photoshop. As great as it is as a tool, if one doesn't go out of one's way to make a photoshop colored piece look handmade by adding blemishes/transparency/texture, etc. it will all look very similar and maybe a bit too perfect.
As far as I am aware, Wayne Reynolds' art is all still hand-drawn and coloured. Certainly, I know the work he did for 2000AD and Games Workshop is, because I've held the originals.
I bumped into him at Leeds Games Workshop, where I'd stopped off after visiting a comic mart. I saw he was sat with a large portfolio, and assumed (rightly) that I'd seen him at the same venue, and (wrongly) that he was a budding amateur artist showing his work around in the hope of getting his first commission.
He'd actually been one of the guests of honour, and had been signing, but had left just as I got there (me going late in the day). He'd moved on to the GW store, since he was sure of an audience, having the pages for GW's 'The Redeemer' on him. This was a psychotic witch-hunting, mutant slaying preacher, with a chainsword, a flamethrower, and a brazier of flaming coals on his head, from the Warhammer 40K/Necromunda setting, with sayings like "If it doesn't hurt; it doesn't COUNT!". Very black comedy, and very typical of the writer, Pat Mills, who may be more familiar to US readers for writing Marshall Law and Metalzoic for DC.
Mills is of course much more famous to UK readers for being an early editor/founder of 2000AD, and writer of Judge Dredd-The Cursed Earth, Robusters, ABC Warriors, Flesh!, Nemesis the Warlock, Third World War, Finn and Slaine.
As well as the Redeemer pages, Reynolds also had the original pages for Slaine, which was due to go to press later that year. And I can confirm that what you see is the real deal. Very luminous washes of acrylics on white board, allowing for the fact that the images get darker when re-sized and reproduced.
As well as having some great artwork to show, he was also a very friendly and chatty guy, who obviously loved his work, to the extent of building models of his characters for reference (and possibly, gaming on the side? I know I would...). His vehicle for the Redeemer was quite something; half tank, half cathedral, with gothic stained glass arches and a pulpit.
All in all, a very enjoyable experience, which made me appreciate his art even more, knowing it was 'for real' after all.
I bumped into Mills at Games Day, round the same time, via a queue-jumping VIP ticket, and he too, was a perfect gent, being happy to discuss his early work, as well as his theories of Life, the Universe and Everything, and giving me the sneak preview of the final chapter of Nemesis the Warlock. Not bad for a free ticket!
Overall, I love Paizo's art. The artwork in Dragon and Dungeon over the past few years has been consistently better than that in WotC's books.
And I just saw Kyra colored (missed it when she was first posted)...
I love her and want her to bear my children.
However, I do have one little complaint. This picture (a plague doctor?)
http://paizo.com/image/product/catalog/PZO/PZO9006_500.jpeg
is cool in itself, but would IMO fit better in Eberron.
Now, I'm not nitpicky enough to actually complain about a single picture, I just want to say I hope Pathfinder avoids the trap which D&D easily falls into of not having a distinct visual style.
I love goggled surgeons in 18th-century outfits, I love fur-clad, mailed barbarians, and I love plated Arthurian knights, but mixing them too much dilutes the cool.
But then, I realize that for a RPG product, one of the concerns is appealing to as wide an audience as possible, so maybe I am being to nitpicky.
Creative Director
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That picture's a placeholder, since we don't have the cover done for Pathfinder 6 yet. So you don't have to worry about that particular goggle-wearing guy appearing in Pathfinder anywhere. We probably won't have final art for Pathfinder 6 until October or thereabouts, and when we DO have it, it'll be very different.
Plague doctors won't be illustrated until Pathfinder 8, and they'll look quite different as well.
Anything beyond Pathfinder 3, at this tim, is placeholder art in fact.
I don't like manga and anime, to the extent that I'm actually quite sick and tired of anime-influenced colour and shading - but, despite the presence of such things in some of the Pathfinder artwork, I'm happy enough to tolerate it as long as we don't start seeing manga-style anatomy, especially faces!
Wayne Reynolds' art doesn't look anything like manga or anime. Big swords and exaggerated musculature aren't sufficient - and his use of colour and shading are completely different.
In my four years at Paizo this is my first post on the messageboards. But since I am the art director for Pathfinder I feel this is a good place to start!
If you have liked the art in Dragon for the past year then you will probably like the art in Pathfinder (I was the art director for Dragon). Most of the artists used in Dragon will be in Pathfinder. Yes, I do have a list of rockstar artists that I can rely on because no matter what they always produce great work. In my biased opinion, the artwork in Pathfinder is awesome and the sketches I have seen in future books will also be awesome! (Wes and James agrees too)
As for the anime/manga issue...This argument could go on forever but for me I do not like this style of artwork. The whole childlike face on adult bodies creeps me out and so far I have tried to stay away from that and does not fit well for Pathfinder.
I am always on the lookout for artist to grace the pages of Pathfinder. My goal is to have Pathfinder to have the best artwork out there!
In my four years at Paizo this is my first post on the messageboards. But since I am the art director for Pathfinder I feel this is a good place to start!
Post more! We luff hearing from Paizo staff!
If you have liked the art in Dragon for the past year then you will probably like the art in Pathfinder (I was the art director for Dragon).
Coolness!
The whole childlike face on adult bodies creeps me out and so far I have tried to stay away from that and does not fit well for Pathfinder.
Good to know.
I am always on the lookout for artist to grace the pages of Pathfinder. My goal is to have Pathfinder to have the best artwork out there!
Eeeeeeexcellent. *goes off to brush up on her artsy skillz*
As for the anime/manga issue...This argument could go on forever but for me I do not like this style of artwork. The whole childlike face on adult bodies creeps me out and so far I have tried to stay away from that and does not fit well for Pathfinder.
Well put! And you just might be my new favorite person.
Here's another vote for no manga. I just hate it when I pick up a Spider-Man or X-Men, and Spidey and Wolvie look like something from a deck of Pokemon cards.
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Here's another vote for no manga.
As a manga fan, I don't want manga-style artwork for Pathfinder.
I just hate it when I pick up a Spider-Man or X-Men, and Spidey and Wolvie look like something from a deck of Pokemon cards.
After spending the day helping a friend who runs a comic book business sort his inventory, I (even though not a fan of superhero comics at all) feel your pain. But even worse than manga Spidey is the chibi Witchblade and Lady Pendragon covers complete with a katakana title. Some things are just a bad idea from the word go.
well hey, of you think you could do better, I'm sure Paizo would be willing to look at your work.
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As a manga fan, I don't want manga-style artwork for Pathfinder.Ditto.
Hey Azzy, what kinds of manga do you read? I just picked up volume 14 of Tsubasa Chronicles over the weekend and read it on the bus in this morning. That series is sweet! :D
Well, I'm primarily an anime fan, and my love for manga is really an extension of that. My favorite, as you may have gathered is Nausicaa. Of more recent stuff (read: within the last decade and a half), I've enjoyed Rurouni Kenshin, Berserk, Blade of the Immortal, Narutaru (it starts off so light, but then...), Nana (yes, a girly manga--but a well-written girly manga), and a countless load of lighter fair that one of my nephews has assaulted me with, like Love Hina (fan service overload, anyone?), Vampire Game (appallingly funny), et al.
Most of my manga money, of late, has been devoted more to filling in the holes in my classic collections like 3x3 Eyes (Dark Horse, please just put the rest out--it's been two decades already!), Silent Mobius (when Kia Asamiya's art style was better), Akira (I have become comfortably numb), Guyver (I've got more of that in the original Japanese than in English, and I can't read a lick of Japanese--hey, they were dirt cheap), Record of Lodoss War: Grey Witch (which, for the sake of useless trivia, was inspired by an actual D&D campaign), Vampire Princess Miyu (missing a looot), Bastard!, etc.
On the whole, I prefer sci-fi, but fantasy/occult/horror are my close seconds. And while I'm occasionally forgiving (see Bastard!), I prefer good, well-written stories with engaging character (no Emogelion for me, thanks) and complex, convoluted, and slowly revealed plots (if they're well done). I'm not big on comedies, but I sometimes get sucked in against my better judgment. :)
Aside from Tsubasa (which I haven't yet checked out), you recommend anything?
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Well, I'm primarily an anime fan, and my love for manga is really an extension of that.
I'm kind of the same way, but for the cost of one DVD I can get two volumes of manga, so sometimes I buy lots of manga just based on volume. And I can read manga on the bus. Watching anime is harder. ;)
My favorite, as you may have gathered is Nausicaa. Of more recent stuff (read: within the last decade and a half), I've enjoyed Rurouni Kenshin, Berserk, Blade of the Immortal, Narutaru (it starts off so light, but then...), Nana (yes, a girly manga--but a well-written girly manga), and a countless load of lighter fair that one of my nephews has assaulted me with, like Love Hina (fan service overload, anyone?), Vampire Game (appallingly funny), et al.
Nausicaa is a great movie. Someday I might have to check out the manga... Humorously, I just picked up the first two volumes of Love Hina after a couple friends read my review of the anime and told me the manga is better. :D
(no Emogelion for me, thanks)
*dramatically throws his arm over his eyes*
Alas, Azzy! Alas!
Aside from Tsubasa (which I haven't yet checked out), you recommend anything?
Hmm... I'm not sure. It seems we have almost opposite tastes in what we read. ;D I prefer magical realism or light sci-fi set on our own Earth (mostly near-future stuff) and lighthearted books (comedies or light romances), especially the girls-with-guns (or supernatural powers) motif. I'm also a big CLAMP fan and will read anything they put out, regardless of subject matter. ;)
But to actually answer your question, from what you've said above I'd recommend Gunslinger Girl (my favorite anime and second-favorite manga). It's near-future light sci-fi and, as the name implies, involves girls wielding guns. More than just a shoot-'em-up, though, it also goes into the psychology of the small-scale assassins and their handlers. Definitely NOT lighthearted. ;D
I just picked up the first two volumes of Love Hina after a couple friends read my review of the anime and told me the manga is better. :D
Love Hina is awesome. Read it . . . read it. It's been a while since I read it to be able to rememeber the details, but it is so much better than the anime (which wasn't too shabby either)
Hmm... I'm not sure. It seems we have almost opposite tastes in what we read. ;D I prefer magical realism or light sci-fi set on our own Earth (mostly near-future stuff) and lighthearted books (comedies or light romances), especially the girls-with-guns (or supernatural powers) motif. I'm also a big CLAMP fan and will read anything they put out, regardless of subject matter. ;)
Dang it Mike, I'm starting to like you more and more. It seems our anime/manga tastes are very similar. If it weren't for that whole Gnome Loving thing, and the fact I've already sold my soul to someone else on these boards, I think we could be very good friends.
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I'm kind of the same way, but for the cost of one DVD I can get two volumes of manga, so sometimes I buy lots of manga just based on volume. And I can read manga on the bus. Watching anime is harder. ;)
One of my friends owns a comic book business with which I sometimes help him out (usually sorting inventory or doing cons)–he usually pays me in manga. :)
Nausicaa is a great movie. Someday I might have to check out the manga... Humorously, I just picked up the first two volumes of Love Hina after a couple friends read my review of the anime and told me the manga is better. :D
Actually, aside from my complaint that the manga was draw out a little too long towards the end, I enjoyed Love Hina, myself.
(no Emogelion for me, thanks)*dramatically throws his arm over his eyes*
Alas, Azzy! Alas!
Well, there was one good thing to come out of Evangelion.... Well, two, if you include the string quartet version of Pachelbel’s Canon in D that was featured in Death of Evangelion.
Hmm... I'm not sure. It seems we have almost opposite tastes in what we read. ;D
Hey, that just allows us to cover more ground, right?
I prefer magical realism or light sci-fi set on our own Earth (mostly near-future stuff)
Which I’m hip to, myself.
and lighthearted books (comedies or light romances), especially the girls-with-guns (or supernatural powers) motif.
On the lighthearted fare, whether comedy or romance, I like in doses and if done well–-but if there’s an engaging story with good characters I’ll likely read it anything regardless of the genre. However, my basic rule is that I prefer to keep comedy in my real life and keep drama in my fiction. But I’m more lenient with comedy in fiction–drama in real life usually just sucks. :)
I'm also a big CLAMP fan and will read anything they put out, regardless of subject matter. ;)
Heh, zealot. ;) Aside from seeing the OVAs of X/1999, RG Veda, and part of Night Head Genesis, I haven’t really read/watched much of their stuff.
But to actually answer your question, from what you've said above I'd recommend Gunslinger Girl (my favorite anime and second-favorite manga). It's near-future light sci-fi and, as the name implies, involves girls wielding guns. More than just a shoot-'em-up, though, it also goes into the psychology of the small-scale assassins and their handlers. Definitely NOT lighthearted. ;D
I haven’t read the manga, but I watch the anime fannsubbed before it was licenced. Good. Disturbing on many levels, but good. And its exploration into the psyche of the characters was particularly well done.
One thing I find interesting about this thread is that it makes one thing patently clear: we all have our opinions about our artwork and those opinions are strong. (Okay, so two things are clear)
To me, this is a good thing. We're passionate about our hobby in general and Pathfinder in particular. I don't know the difference between anime and manga and chibi, but I believe back in my day it used to be called "Japanimation." Maybe that name was offensive for some reason? Anyway, there are definitely certain styles I think most people associate with "anime" and big eyes, small mouths, big feet and blue hair are certainly what leap to my mind. Any fans of Homestarrunner might be familiar with the anime version of Strongbad that sort of parodies the genre. In any event, I'm glad to hear that isn't the direction Pathfinder is going.
I'm admittedly old school and in my mind it just doesn't get any better than Larry Elmore. But I also like Easley and even Erol Otus. And it is odd, but I had never heard of Wayne Reynolds until the news came out about Pathfinder. Then, of course, I started noticing various illustrations that I liked in various WOTC sourcebooks and I noticed that a fair number of them had a little "WAR" at the bottom. What do you know?
So, I obviously don't know a great deal about art, but I know what I like. I like art that is unabashed fantasy but still somewhat realistic. I don't particularly care for "dungeon-punk" as a style. I like armor that looks functional. I don't care for armor that is asymmetrical or that looks like it was cobbled together or scavenged from various sets of armor--unless it is meant to say something about that particular character.
I like most of what I've seen so far for Pathfinder. I love the nasty little Goblins...right down to their dogslicers. Very cool. I will say that I wasn't wowed by the drawing of Merisiel. She did seem a tad anime to me. And I wasn't crazy about the guy wearing the cargo pants in the Player's Guide. The boots with the tread I think I could look past, but to me cargo pants just make me wonder, "Did he buy those at the GAP?" If he needs the storage, I'd rather see belt pouches. But that's just my preference. And of all the art we've seen so far for Pathfinder and Gamemastery, two illustrations that didn't thrill me are easy to overlook. Especially since the rest more than make up for the tiny fraction I didn't like.
And the artwork for D0 and D1 was topnotch. So I'm optimistic that the majority of what we can expect for the future will continue to be top notch.
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Love Hina is awesome. Read it . . . read it. It's been a while since I read it to be able to rememeber the details, but it is so much better than the anime (which wasn't too shabby either)
Yeah, I find it hard to put down so far. I'm going to have to pick up more volumes after next paycheck... ;)
Dang it Mike, I'm starting to like you more and more. It seems our anime/manga tastes are very similar. If it weren't for that whole Gnome Loving thing, and the fact I've already sold my soul to someone else on these boards, I think we could be very good friends.
We can still be good friends! ^_^
Talking about anime and manga is lots of fun when it's with friends. Talking about them with random hyperactive teenagers is particularly unfun, which is why I avoid messageboards on anime websites.
I use a video iPod for all my anime needs. :)
I've thought of doing that, but 1) I don't have a video iPod yet (alas) and 2) looking at tiny screens hurts my eyes (I need to go see an eye doctor one of these days). Once I remedy both of those situations I'll be all over watching anime on a video iPod. :D
One of my friends owns a comic book business with which I sometimes help him out (usually sorting inventory or doing cons)–he usually pays me in manga. :)
Lucky!!! We occasionally get review copies of anime and manga here and I constantly try to get my hands on them. Unfortunately, though, I fail more often than not.
Actually, aside from my complaint that the manga was draw out a little too long towards the end, I enjoyed Love Hina, myself.
I have yet to hear anybody say anything truly negative about the manga, and so far in my reading I've found it quite fun. :)
Well, there was one good thing to come out of Evangelion.... Well, two, if you include the string quartet version of Pachelbel’s Canon in D that was featured in Death of Evangelion.
To feud, or not to feud: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to sufferThe slings and arrows of outrageous fandom,
Or to take words against unbelievers,
And by opposing convert them?
;D
Hey, that just allows us to cover more ground, right?
lol, it's true. Just not too much common ground, methinks. ;D Which is fine, really.
On the lighthearted fare, whether comedy or romance, I like in doses and if done well–-but if there’s an engaging story with good characters I’ll likely read it anything regardless of the genre. However, my basic rule is that I prefer to keep comedy in my real life and keep drama in my fiction. But I’m more lenient with comedy in fiction–drama in real life usually just sucks. :)
That's a good way to look at things. ;D
I like interesting and likable characters in my fiction (regardless of source or medium), with a decent story coming as a not-too-close second. I also like happy endings. So yeah, I'm the weird one here at Paizo, in that I like happy and lighthearted things and avoid horror and bad things happening to good people. That follows through with my anime and manga choices as well (and yeah, I'm a pretty big Disney fan). ;)
Heh, zealot. ;)
"Fanboy," if you please. ;)
I haven’t read the manga, but I watch the anime fannsubbed before it was licenced. Good. Disturbing on many levels, but good. And its exploration into the psyche of the characters was particularly well done.
Yeah, it pretty much goes against what I said above about happy and lighthearted things, but it's just so good! :)
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Finished, colored version of Chibi-Merisiel.
That's very cool!
I really like Wayne Reynold's work for the Eberron covers. I think they are comic-book like, but not magna. The Forge of War cover reminds me of those classic crossover books where DC meets Marvel.
I'm also a huge fan. I hope to see more of Wayne Reynolds, Andrew Hou, Ramon Perez (admittedly, without cargo pants!), Warren Mahy, and Ben Wooten. My test for greatness is if the art tells a story, and if they can actually do buildings and landscapes - and they all do. Hold onto them!
Is there any possibility for other favorites like Steven Belledin, Steve Prescott, Christophe Vacher – or the various artists who illustrated my esthetically favourite Mysteries of the Moonsea? I think the main dude was William O'Connor. Love that stuff!
How about you guys? Any *reasonable requests* (Not just gene-splicing Elmore / Lockwood / Reynolds into a stylistic superbeast?)
I really love WAR's work on D&D. It creates an atmosphere that helps my imagination take me to these campaign worlds. I can remember loving Parkinson, Easley, and Elmore for the same reason (although now i think Easley and Elmore are kinda lame). Campaigns need signature artists just as much as they need signature characters.
Speaking of cartoons, Falkedtung, you might want to cut down on the "Family Guy" viewing. You sound EXACTLY like Stewie.
Well, I'm going to have to take back something I said. I hadn't seen the final version of Merisiel, I had only seen the black and white drawing. I just saw the cover for RotRL #3 with the full color version of Merisiel and I've got to say...not too shabby. So, I guess that only leaves one illustration so far that I didn't like. *shrug*
And when it comes to Trolls, I'm always hesitant to throw that word around because I think it is sometimes used unfairly or too readily, however, there reaches a point where it seems appropriate...
By the way, if the Art Director of Pathfinder has a distaste for manga, why on Oerth is manga-style artwork at all present in these publications?
Uhhhh...
Cuz it's not manga-style at all? Manga by definition is having those big goofy eyes and tiny little mouths. It's all about being realistic, but with cartoony extremes every once in a while.
Fantasy has evolved to people having flashy outfits and unrealistic weapons. That wasn't started by manga. There just happens to be manga in that same vein.
I've looked at my Burnt Offerings PDF and let me tell you. The artwork is both wonderful and not manga at all.
Well, I'm not going to comment too much on the specifics in this thread. I just wanted to pop in and say, after three (and a half) GameMastery modules, seven Compleat Encounters, and one volume of Pathfinder, I am very happy in general with the art direction on these lines. Of course there are some pieces that don't do much for me, but overall, I am very,very happy.
But then I do love anime. And classic fantasy art (Frazetta, Otus, Parkinson, Elmore, etc.). And current game art (Reynolds! Lockwood, Wood, etc). And classical art (spent a semester in Greece and Italy studying it).
I find what I have seen so far tickles all my fancies for art. Hm, that last sentence makes me feel kinda funny.
Keep it up Paizo! I especially love the mug-shots of characters in Burnt Offerings (whoever did Shalelu Andosana is my hero).
I'm actually rather disappointed in the art. If that's the kind of stuff Paizo has to use to please their customers I guess I'm okay with it, but it certainly doesn't please me.
Frankly, I can't stand anime, manga, or anything even distantly related to it. It sets my teeth on edge for some reason. I really can't stand the fact that this style of art has so completely saturated my favorite hobby. Seen any of the illustrations for 4e yet? They show a definite anime influence. Bugs the cr** out of me.
I realize some of you will want to argue with me, and I realize this is only a matter of personal opinion, but after pulling out several older issues of Dragon and Dungeon I do get the feeling that the art has drifted somewhat toward the Japanese style. To my eyes, Pathfinder #1 took more than a baby step in that direction.
I know Paizo has to use a variety of artists and that they have to use what sells best, so I don't want anyone to feel that I'm being critical. I'm only offering my opinion for the sake of their own marketing research.
I quite like what I've seen in the pdf version of Burnt Offerings. It's an eclectic mix of styles that I think is really effective. I always like seeing Warren Mahy's work and I really like that bugbear ranger with the almost Jeff Smith Rat Creature face.
Reposted in the correct thread.
I concur. Ditch the manga/anime style artwork.
The maps and scenery/location artwork is just as great as it was in Dungeon and Dragon magazines, but everytime I look at some of the character pics like Valeros and Seoni, I can't help but think about Jim Henson's muppet gelflings in the old Dark Crystal flick. How's that for an obscure reference for you old timers? And Shaleu Andosana looks like she infiltrated from Blizzard's WoW. Give us a break, there's enough of that out there already.
The artwork in Hollow's Last Hope was fantastic by the way. Y'all have a great stable of artists so I know you can do better than anime/manga-esque cartoons. Otherwise my new Level 1 Rogue created for Burnt Offerings will have to pick up a level of Speed Racer next...
Dukan
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...everytime I look at some of the character pics like Valeros and Seoni, I can't help but think about Jim Henson's muppet gelflings in the old Dark Crystal flick...
I think you missed the first of D&D's commandments:
1. Thou shalt not under any circumstances dislike the work of Wayne Reynolds.
2. Thou shalt not compare the work of Wayne Reynolds to manga or anime, to do so leads to perdition.
...everytime I look at some of the character pics like Valeros and Seoni, I can't help but think about Jim Henson's muppet gelflings in the old Dark Crystal flick...I think you missed the first of D&D's commandments:
1. Thou shalt not under any circumstances dislike the work of Wayne Reynolds.
2. Thou shalt not compare the work of Wayne Reynolds to manga or anime, to do so leads to perdition.
Wayne Reynolds is not completely perfect. Look at his "interesting" take on anatomy on his Malcanthet Dragon magazine cover. I like his stuff, but he's not worthy of complete and utter devotion.
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Wayne Reynolds is not completely perfect. Look at his "interesting" take on anatomy on his Malcanthet Dragon magazine cover. I like his stuff, but he's not worthy of complete and utter devotion.
...everytime I look at some of the character pics like Valeros and Seoni, I can't help but think about Jim Henson's muppet gelflings in the old Dark Crystal flick...I think you missed the first of D&D's commandments:
1. Thou shalt not under any circumstances dislike the work of Wayne Reynolds.
2. Thou shalt not compare the work of Wayne Reynolds to manga or anime, to do so leads to perdition.
Seconded. WAR has had some dog pieces (the charging knight on the cover of issue 299, for example, is particularly and egregiously bad), but I have never thought of his art style being particularly "anime."
And yes, I've seen plenty of anime. I know the hallmarks of the style, and Reynolds's artwork doesn't have 'em. The word "anime" has taken on a snide connotation in the RPG world. No, it's not "anime," it's "art I don't like."
I’m late to this thread, but Mr. Jacob’s original point rings true. Pathfinder and the GameMastery line need a distinct and recognizable style to make their mark in the marketplace. Paizo is fighting for its foothold on these new shores. Turning to reliable artists makes sense. When you go to war, you surround yourselves with those you trust to shoot straight.
Do I like the style? The art in the GameMastery modules I have (D1 and W1) engages me but doesn’t knock my socks off. Some of it feels more workmanlike than inspired. Oddly, both the cute cartoon kobold and the cartoon Bulmahn-rosebud sprite in the Designer’s Notes draw unnecessary attention to how cartoon-like the other illustrations are too. IMO, the cartography in both modules outshines the illustration.
The U.S. Mail still holds my first Pathfinder hostage, but I’m hopeful its art will floor me. I find the Pathfinder art samples on the blog compelling, although I’d personally welcome a step towards greater realism.
I hope more varied art styles will emerge in both lines over time. (Personally, I want to see Lilith and James Keegan illustrate a dark-but-humorous GameMastery module – written, of course, by Tim & Eileen Connors and the ubiquitous Mr. Logue. But I’m prejudiced.)
In short, I hope Paizo sticks to its guns until it wins an overwhelming market share. Then I hope to see a broadening of styles to embrace less cartoon-influenced illustration.
(Now I’m shutting up. My hands are so bad these days that drafting this simple post took from dinner until 11:00.)