
Merm7th |
So I have a whip kensai that has just reached 7th lvl. I have improved whip mastery so I threaten out to 10', 15' with longarm active which is almost always. I just got Iaijutsu, which allows me to AoO while flat footed and draw for free while making an AoO. RAI that I threaten while wearing my whip and can draw in the process of AoOing.
Is there a sample list of non-combat actions that provoke AoOs? Standing from sitting in a chair, receiving something handed to them, putting on a jacket, reading a note, sneezing, pointing at something, catching something tossed to them...
If I started combat with a provoked AoO, Would I be at the top of surprise round? Would it be a free attack before surprise round or regular initiative?

MurphysParadox |
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I don't believe you can provoke 'out of combat' because there's no combat, thus no one is being all 'watch for an opening and strike!' It is simply called starting a surprise round. Now, if you start a surprise round and somehow lose the init to a very perceptive enemy, you can still AOO the bad guy as they move towars/away from you.
So, functionally, it isn't really any different. You say "I am going to attack that guy surprisingly!" and the GM has the guy make a perception check, then everyone rolls inits. You either get a straight up normal attack (target fails perception check or loses to you in initiative) or they have to move through your threatened range and you get an AOO.

Dave Justus |
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Provoking only happens in combat.
If you intend to initiate combat the opponent gets a perception chance to avoid surprise and you both roll initiative. Combat begins, with a surprise round if you surprised your opponent. At that point, they may provoke but you are in combat.
There is an entire table of actions and which ones provoke attacks of opportunity.

Merm7th |
I don't believe you can provoke 'out of combat' because there's no combat, thus no one is being all 'watch for an opening and strike!' It is simply called starting a surprise round. Now, if you start a surprise round and somehow lose the init to a very perceptive enemy, you can still AOO the bad guy as they move towars/away from you.
So, functionally, it isn't really any different. You say "I am going to attack that guy surprisingly!" and the GM has the guy make a perception check, then everyone rolls inits. You either get a straight up normal attack (target fails perception check or loses to you in initiative) or they have to move through your threatened range and you get an AOO.
My character doesn't have quick draw. If I said "I am going to attack that guy surprisingly!" would I still get to draw for free if is the normal attack?

Merm7th |
Ditto on what everyone else has said,
I am wondering how you have longarm 'almost always' active at 7th lvl.
It has a duration of 1 minute/ caster level.
That is an exaggeration. I have a wand that I use a lot. Before almost every room in a dungeon. Every time we go to question someone, if it is something that might go a bit longer, say talking to someone who might be the big baddie, or making a trade that might go south. I cast it myself for the full 7. I have 5 1st lvl pearls of power and go through 15+ wand charges/scenario. I trip, disarm, and shock everything.

Paulicus |

Normally, I argue against the idea of arbitrarily separating combat/noncombat, as it makes the game feel too much like Final Fantasy. However, this is a situation that could end up a bit cheesy, so the GM would be well within his rights to reign in out of combat AoOs, depending on how you use them.
That said, the easiest way to rule this (and the way I would do it) is to simply count that AoO as you starting a surprise round.
I have to disagree with most other posters on a minor point, though. Unless you're hiding from your target with stealth, it would be Sense Motive check (DC20 let's you get a hunch about the situation) to determine who acts in the surprise round, and that includes your allies. I might up the DC by 2 since there's no weapons out, but I'd have to think on that before doing so.
The wand sounds expensive, and with a 10' reach I wonder if you need it anyway.

Cap. Darling |

You start combat when you hit the poor guy as he is getting up from his chair. He may win initiative and if he then still get up from the chair you get a AOO since you have combat reflexes. If you win initiative you can hit him in his chair or delay and hit him if he gets up. But you need to start combat for things like AOOs to happen. IF not it would create silly situations where folks wanting to ambush other folks would stand and wait for them to get up or move past and try to cheat the initiative system like that. You can get what you want you just need to start combat to get it.

Cap. Darling |

MurphysParadox wrote:My character doesn't have quick draw. If I said "I am going to attack that guy surprisingly!" would I still get to draw for free if is the normal attack?I don't believe you can provoke 'out of combat' because there's no combat, thus no one is being all 'watch for an opening and strike!' It is simply called starting a surprise round. Now, if you start a surprise round and somehow lose the init to a very perceptive enemy, you can still AOO the bad guy as they move towars/away from you.
So, functionally, it isn't really any different. You say "I am going to attack that guy surprisingly!" and the GM has the guy make a perception check, then everyone rolls inits. You either get a straight up normal attack (target fails perception check or loses to you in initiative) or they have to move through your threatened range and you get an AOO.
I missed this. You only get to draw for free on a AOO. You just declared that you will hit him and if you win initiative you delay until he gets up. Then if he provokes in his turn you get to draw and hit him but if he blast you with a Spell cast defensively you dont.

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You're exactly right. I think most everyone here just isn't familiar enough with the magus archetype. If you're a kensai and 7th level you're intended to do exactly what you're asking.
So it just depends on what they're doing. If they're right next to you and try to grapple you without Improved Grapple that's too bad because they're too close for you to attack. But if they're 10' away and they start casting a hostile spell at you for a surprise round then go ahead.
To answer your other question, you wouldn't be at the top of the surprise round. If you get to act in the surprise round (your AOO doesn't count as acting) you'd roll your initiative normally and take your turn like you would any other round.

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You're exactly right. I think most everyone here just isn't familiar enough with the magus archetype. If you're a kensai and 7th level you're intended to do exactly what you're asking.
So it just depends on what they're doing. If they're right next to you and try to grapple you without Improved Grapple that's too bad because they're too close for you to attack. But if they're 10' away and they start casting a hostile spell at you for a surprise round then go ahead.
To answer your other question, you wouldn't be at the top of the surprise round. If you get to act in the surprise round (your AOO doesn't count as acting) you'd roll your initiative normally and take your turn like you would any other round.
I don't see anything in the long arm spell that would remove the ability of the whip to threaten in the entire area, so threaten at 5', 10' and 15', make attacks at up to 20' reach.