I don't know that there is any big secret, other than that Rich doesn't seem to want a lot of speculation about his health. He posted an announcement earlier this week or last week saying that he has had some bad health issues, he doesn't really want to discuss them but that they are not life threatening, and that the new schedule is that there is no schedule.
I didn't think it seemed that sinister or conspiratorial. And I don't think the delay of Start of Darkness had to do with this, but with a problem at the printers.
I wish him all the best and thanks for the wonderful free and funny webcomic. Let him update it whenever he wants to, or can, or not at all. Why even speculate or discuss something that is so much "none of our business?" All my best wishes to you, Rich and thanks for all the laughs.
I wish him all the best and thanks for the wonderful free and funny webcomic. Let him update it whenever he wants to, or can, or not at all. Why even speculate or discuss something that is so much "none of our business?" All my best wishes to you, Rich and thanks for all the laughs.
Quoted for supreme truth.
I am so grateful for OOTS -- there are a lot of great webcomics out there, but for me, as a diehard D&Der nothing beats OOTS. For FREE. I plan on ordering his book, because I feel guilty having enjoyed his talents for free so long.
I think that it is a little odd to use Erfworld as evidence that the quality has been going done since a year ago Erfworld wasn't up yet. The site has made progress since then, although I would say it is smaller than what I thought when I saw the news at the end of last year.
I am saddened by the last annoucement, but only because I rather have more free stuff than less free stuff. But I am happy to get anything at all.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I have to say, I find Rich Burlew to be a very unprofessional creator. He is frequently late, has had pacing problems, and is known for being hostile towards his fanbase and his critics. The OotS boards are not a place I have spent much time in, as they tend to be cluttered up with a bunch of fanboys. With that said, if his strip is bothering you, vote with your feet and leave. Since the strip is his job right now, the way to promote change is to register your grievance - with the creator, not the board - and leave.
So, in short: I agree, the site is going to heck again (like it did last soummer), but I don't see what use posting here about it is :)
I have to say, I find Rich Burlew to be a very unprofessional creator. He is frequently late, has had pacing problems, and is known for being hostile towards his fanbase and his critics. The OotS boards are not a place I have spent much time in, as they tend to be cluttered up with a bunch of fanboys. With that said, if his strip is bothering you, vote with your feet and leave. Since the strip is his job right now, the way to promote change is to register your grievance - w ith the creator, not the board - and leave.
So, in short: I agree, the site is going to heck again (like it did last soummer), but I don't see what use posting here about it is :)
If I may offer a counterpoint -- That site is free. A free comic with 400 some odd issues all posted for your pleasure. A free forum where you can talk,debate, whatever -- if it is your opinion that Burlew is unprofessional, you have a right to it, but please keep in mind that it comes out somewhat insulting. Burlew has been under the weather, dealt with printing problems, and note he is a single man, not a creative team of people.
If you must quibble with him in some fashion, you could say that has tried to do to many things at once -- oh wait, he has already ceded that fact . . . .HERE.
Leave the man alone, wish him well, and enjoy the free items he puts forth for your entertainment. It is one thing to call a person unprofessional when they jip you, cheat you, or screw you over in business, it is another to disparage a man who offers much of his creativity at no cost.
sorry for rant
I demand my money back!
Seriously, I'm impressed the man's been so consistent throughout the years. I'd have given up after four strips. I genuinely enjoy burlew's work (even if I prefer the comedy and rules mocking to the current action line), and I buy his products in support. If you don't want to wait for an update, stop reading.
How nice that you guys all point out that it is a "free" comic. It is just a free as a McDonald's commercial. The free comic exists to sell merchandise.
I bring up Erfworld because the current state of Giant in the Playground is hurting Erfworld. Another quality comic is being hurt because Mr. Burlew isn't able to post it when he receives it. If this is such a problem, it could easily be fixed by allowing the creators of Erfworld to update their comic themselves.
I really hope Mr. Burlew's health improves. I hope Giant in the Playground provides us with good comics and gaming products for a long time. I'm afraid if things don't change, OotS won't be around much longer, and Erfworld will find another host site.
Did it ever occur to you that Erfworld may have chose to join Burlew because the popularity of his page? Did you hear of Erfworld before Giant in The Playground? Obviously the creator of Erfworld can go to another site, and he/she will do so if they desire -- don't make it seem like they have gained no benefit from sharing the spotlight with a popular webcomic.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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If I may offer a counterpoint -- That site is free. A free comic with 400 some odd issues all posted for your pleasure. A free forum where you can talk,debate, whatever -- if it is your opinion that Burlew is unprofessional, you have a right to it, but please keep in mind that it comes out somewhat insulting. Burlew has been under the weather, dealt with printing problems, and note he is a single man, not a creative team of people.Leave the man alone, wish him well, and enjoy the free items he puts forth for your entertainment. It is one thing to call a person unprofessional when they jip you, cheat you, or screw you over in business, it is another to disparage a man who offers much of his creativity at no cost.
sorry for rant
Wow, I didn't know it was free! (sarcasm)
Rich Burlew writes OotS for a living. That makes it his business to not alienate his fan base enough to jeopardize his living. When he behaves in a fashion that alienates them (i.e. an entire year of having to translate Haley's speech, months of late or missing updates, and his generally unpleasant attitude towards people on the board) it eventually has an impact on his bottom line. While the pacing problems aren't truely unprofessional, the late updates, broken promises, and attitude are unprofessional.
Just because he has issues doesn't mean you have to stop reading or starting complaining, but it does constitute grounds for either or both from any reader who is tired of it. And trotting out the "it's free" card is bordering on asinine, since (1) everyone knows it and (2) he makes his living off of selling merchandise, which makes the free strips promotional material - in other words, part of a money-making venture.
By the way, "jip" is considered offensive by many people.
Wow, I didn't know it was free! (sarcasm)
Ok . . .
Rich Burlew write OotS for a living. That makes it his business to not alienate his fan base enough to jeopardize his living. When he behaves in a fashion that alienates them (i.e. an entire year of having to translate Haley's speech, months of late or missing updates, and his generally unpleasant attitude towards people on the board) it eventually has an impact on his bottom line.
I would argue that items like Haley's speech do not alienate too many readers as, quoting you "Burlew writes OotS for a living." He is obviously aware of his "bottom line'. Just because you do not enjoy some of what he does, or have had a bad experience with him, really does not entitle you to disparage him.
At the very least give him the credit to understand what is best for his business.
I have said what I have to say --
I find your statement about him being 'unprofessional' incorrect because
1) He offers a quality product. Much of which is of no cost to us, which is very customer-friendly.
2)He has been forthright in apologizing for his tardiness and made us aware his ongoing struggles
3) He has allowed other people to use his site as a jumpstart.
You find him unprofessional because --
1)you believe him to be unpleasant (I do not frequent his forums, you must know better than I)
2)Haley's speech
3)missing free updates to his free website.
Let's just agree to disagree.
By the way, "jip" is considered offensive by many people.
I did not know that. By the way, calling someone's argument asinine is also considered offensive by many people. I am not sure what in my post produced such sarcasm and ire in you, it was not my intent.
While the pacing problems aren't truely unprofessional, the late updates, broken promises, and attitude are unprofessional.Just because he has issues doesn't mean you have to stop reading or starting complaining, but it does constitute grounds for either or both from any reader who is tired of it. And trotting out the "it's free" card is bordering on asinine, since (1) everyone knows it and (2) he makes his living off of selling merchandise, which makes the free strips promotional material - in other words, part of a money-making venture.
Gee. I've never really heard "health problems" called "unprofessional" before. It must be rough that someone's illness causes that much angst in your life.
Then stop reading the strip. You won't have to waste your time refreshing to see if a new update's been posted, you won't have to worry about whether the next book is on time, and you won't have to worry whether the man is sick. That will leave lots of extra time on your hands, and potentially bring happiness to your life, in part because you won't have to complain about all the above.
Frankly, as much as I love the FREE <gasp> web-comic, I don't feel that Mr. Burlew owes me one single thing. Period. If he stopped writing the comic tomorrow, so be it. I'd be sad, but would I call him unprofessional for daring to stop writing? Hmm.....I don't think so.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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By the way, "jip" is considered offensive by many people.
I did not know that.
*Not getting involved in this argument - but agrees wholeheartedly that Mr. Burlew is NOT being unprofessional in any manner whatsoever*
I only wanted to comment on "jip" for what it's worth. (Only because I unknowingly ran afoul of this too, and want to spare anyone else if possible.)
I believe it's spelled "gyp" and it is a derivation of the term Gypsie. It is incredibly offensive to those of any Gypsie, or Roma, ethnicity. I only found this out after tossing it out there many years ago, and being informed by someone within earshot of what I was saying. (Being a stupid kid at the time, I'd just never thought of it.)
It infers that gypsies are liars, cheaters, cons, etc. - and people that "gyp" you are acting like a gypsie.
::WOW! Now I know. And knowing is half the battle. GI Joe.::
By the way, "jip" is considered offensive by many people.
I did not know that.
*Not getting involved in this argument - but agrees wholeheartedly that Mr. Burlew is NOT being unprofessional in any manner whatsoever*
I only wanted to comment on "jip" for what it's worth. (Only because I unknowingly ran afoul of this too, and want to spare anyone else if possible.)
I believe it's spelled "gyp" and it is a derivation of the term Gypsie. It is incredibly offensive to those of any Gypsie, or Roma, ethnicity. I only found this out after tossing it out there many years ago, and being informed by someone within earshot of what I was saying. (Being a stupid kid at the time, I'd just never thought of it.)
It infers that gypsies are liars, cheaters, cons, etc. - and people that "gyp" you are acting like a gypsie.
::WOW! Now I know. And knowing is half the battle. GI Joe.::
Yeah, I just wikied it. Not only have I offended an entire culture, I spell poorly. It is not a good day to be the Last Rogue.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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2)He has been forthright in apologizing for his tardiness and made us aware his ongoing struggles
He actually hasn't been forthright. Originally, his FAQ on his site contained a snide answer (to "Why is the strip late" about how the strip had "never been late", because it wasn't late until midnight. This was eventually removed after he repeatedly blown that midnight deadline (his own). The strip has since then gone through grudging retractions of the writer-declared posting schedules, usually after several months of missed or late updates.
"Professional" involves meeting your deadlines. Prompt explanations when you meet them still isn't terribly professional, but it's not yet unprofessional. Constantly missing your deadlines, and usually having no explaination is unprofessional - the sort of thing that gets people who have a boss fired.
~shrugs~ OotS is free. There is a saying "Do not look a gift horse in the mouth." Yes, it would have been polite if he had not said in the first place that he would do 3 strips a week and they would be up at a specific time. But he also has health problems. Give the guy a break. At least his health problems are not fatal, so all we need is a little patience. Our beloved stip will be coming, just not as quickly as we would like. Live with it or do not read it. We are on Rich's schedule now.
Good on you Eyebite for not getting involved. I don't have your restraint.
How nice that you guys all point out that it is a "free" comic. It is just a free as a McDonald's commercial. The free comic exists to sell merchandise.
I take some exception to this statement. It may be a "Chicken-Egg" debate, or it may depend on your point of view, but from my point of view, the merchandise exists so that Rich could quit his day job and updates would come with greater frequency. In fact, we decided the frequency based on how many books he sold. Or possibly how many were pre-ordered; it's been a couple years. In essence, the merchandise falls more under the category of "subscription fee" than "purpose of the comic." If anything is commercials, it's the merchandise. Not only because the compilations allowed Rich to reach an even greater fan base, but also because commercials are what you put up with to watch network television and listen to the radio.
I really don't care that the book is late. If it never comes, I'll not be too greatly bothered, since Paizo hasn't charged me for it yet. I do see your point though, about how much it sucks that he's been late so often, and it is kind of unprofessional in the sense that if he called in sick this often and made the statement "my work will be done when it's done" at a normal job his boss would be breathing fire. And yes, he can be acerbic to the forum people, but in all honesty, I would have been far less polite than he has been in every case I have seen him get short.
I guess what I'm saying is that I can see what you are saying, but I don't agree that it is as big a deal as you are making it out to be.
Russ, I was just being contrary in order to support a comic I enjoy.
You argue your point with much more fervor.
You win. I cede this discussion. Congrats.
So its now considered unprofessional to have a health disorder?!
Rich Burlew has provided us with a quality product for a long time. Is it too much to ask for him to be forgiven for having an illness that disables him for weeks at a time? It isn't his fault that he doesn't update regularly. It sin't like he's choosing to update several days late to snub his readership, he updates late because he is frequently ill.
How was Haley's speech problem unprofessional? I found it funny and I've had fun decoding here speech. I think that it was meant to be a funny quirk of a character, not something unpleasant to the readership.
I've not frequented the GitP boards so I can't say whether or not he is unpleasant to the readership there but he has apologized for the late strips on more than one occassion and has come out and said that he has a health disorder, something he didn't have to do, so that we could know why the best webcomic around was late.
It is true that he does this for a living and that he tries to sell his work and tries to promote his work through the almost 500 comics that he has on his site available for free but is that not the right of anyone who produces a product? He doesn't even ask for a subscription fee to have access to his comic archives. We have free access to them all of the time.
All in all I can't say that I agree with you (Narthon) and I must admit that what you've said on this thread has made me see you as a little but ungrateful and inconsiderate. I really mean no insult, I'm merely speaking my mind. We are all entitled to our own opinions.
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I wish him all the best and thanks for the wonderful free and funny webcomic. Let him update it whenever he wants to, or can, or not at all. Why even speculate or discuss something that is so much "none of our business?" All my best wishes to you, Rich and thanks for all the laughs.Quoted for supreme truth.
I am so grateful for OOTS -- there are a lot of great webcomics out there, but for me, as a diehard D&Der nothing beats OOTS. For FREE. I plan on ordering his book, because I feel guilty having enjoyed his talents for free so long.
Doubly qouted for supreme truth.
I also feel bad about the several hundred free comics of his that I read on his site, and I rectify that by purchasing every single book he puts out and by telling all my friends to do the same.
Viva La Berlew!
FH
~smiles~ Yes. I agree. We are getting an amazing product for FREE. I would pay money to access his web site for OotS and Erfworld. But I get them for nothing. At least Rich is alive to do more comics, not long gone like my Dad and a few other people that I know. I count my blessing for that.
P.S. - As for the delay in Start of Darkness, I do agree that it sucks as to how it was handled once the printer got it right. But we all make mistakes.
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...Finally, the new OotS book, Start of Darkness is now two months late for anyone who didn't order it with ridiculous shipping costs from his pet distributor, Ape Games. ...
I received my copy from Ape two weeks ago. The book was originally delayed because it had to be reprinted: the printer did not print the color pages.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I hadn't heard Rich was having health problems, and wish him the best of luck.
I _DO_ know that having The Order of the Stick in Dragon this last couple of years has been a real joy and a treat. Rich is an immensely talented cartoonist and deserves all the successes he has achieved.
I think he deserves a little slack, personally.
--Erik
I think he deserves a little slack, personally.
--Erik
Agreed. I say give him the whole coil. The man has been a one-way joy machine.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Just for the sake of argument, how many late or missing strips constitutes "a little slack", rather than "a lot of slack"? I'd say he's gotten rather a lot more slack than most people get when they're late :)
For a webcomic run by a guy with one heck of a work ethic (he hasn't had a late strip in something like 7 years), I recommend Howard Tayler's Schlock Mercenary. He pretty much sets the bar for timely posting.
Just for the sake of argument, how many late or missing strips constitutes "a little slack", rather than "a lot of slack"? I'd say he's gotten rather a lot more slack than most people get when they're late :)
For a webcomic run by a guy with one heck of a work ethic (he hasn't had a late strip in something like 7 years), I recommend Howard Tayler's Schlock Mercenary. He pretty much sets the bar for timely posting.
~tright smile that then relaxes into a grin~ Ok. On the "Little slack versus lots of slack", ask yourself this... Have you ever had a long term illness or know someone who has? If the answer is "NO" then you might want to think some. If the answer is "Yes", then show a little bit of understanding please.
(I have had several loved ones have long term illness. It screws up their life and the lives of those around you. It takes a long time to recover from those effects. Everyone, please think on that before commenting as to why someone is late with something. Trust me, it is no fun what so ever.)
Sorry about the rant. I will get off the soap box and out of this thread.
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Just for the sake of argument, how many late or missing strips constitutes "a little slack", rather than "a lot of slack"? I'd say he's gotten rather a lot more slack than most people get when they're late :)
For a webcomic run by a guy with one heck of a work ethic (he hasn't had a late strip in something like 7 years), I recommend Howard Tayler's Schlock Mercenary. He pretty much sets the bar for timely posting.
Russ...it's a free comic. If the author shelves it for the rest of his life, much less is "late" in updates...who are any of us to actually complain? This isn't a public service, this isn't a taxpayer-funded operation, and you're not paying him anything except your thanks for a fun and funny comic.
Russ,
Yeah....I think I'm calling in "unprofessional" tomorrow. I get 3 weeks of accumulated "unprofessional" time a year. Give me a frickin' break about the complaints about Oots being "late" or "poor quality." Call General Motors if you want a f*!$ing warranty. I have tried to restrain myself, but for cryin' out loud-you act like Rich is responsible for air dropping MRE's to troops pinned down behind enemy lines. Hope you never have to face any adversity in YOUR professional life, like having to take five weeks off because your kid is in the hospital 700 miles away. Yeah...I was real "unprofessional" then, but at least my "customers" felt bad when they found out why their cases weren't being worked. Had any of them acted like you act, I'd have given them the "donut powdered sugar" covered middle finger.
By the way, "jip" is considered offensive by many people.
Nobody's offended by jip. However gypsies do dearly loathe gyp as it refers to the racial stereotype that they, as a race, are swindlers. Why, my very own accountant is a Tzigani and he swears all is fine with my investment portfolio.
Personally, I'm offended by the word stereotype. It's true meaning should be typing with both hands.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Russ...it's a free comic. If the author shelves it for the rest of his life, much less is "late" in updates...who are any of us to actually complain? This isn't a public service, this isn't a taxpayer-funded operation, and you're not paying him anything except your thanks for a fun and funny comic.
OH MY GOODNESS IT'S A FREE WEBCOMIC! I HAD NO IDEA!
Have you read the thread, and seen people posting that? Did you think I missed it, even though I referred to it at least twice, and explained why it's a bogus argument?
The comic is advertising for his occupation. I'm certainly entitled to comment on what I think of his lack of ability to meet deadlines - that it shows a lack of professionalism.
In point of fact, Rich has my money for several collections, so I'm also a paying customer.
Is there any special reason why people are married to the idea that a customer can't disapprove of broken commitments?
You know, I'm almost reminded of the people that complained about how late Superman/Batman was for a while, regardless of Jeph Loeb's personal situation.
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You know, I'm almost reminded of the people that complained about how late Superman/Batman was for a while, regardless of Jeph Loeb's personal situation.
I love that comic. I was kinda sad that it was delayed for a bit, but lucky for me I collect enough other titles that I didn't really notice. Either way, the stories have been pretty good, especially the recent one with Despero (although I wish they had more of him).
So what was Loeb's personal situation?
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I don't know how much business support Mr Burlew has - as far as I was aware, he is a one-man band, certainly where the comic is concerned. If that's the case, anything coming along to disturb the regular routine will impact on what he does. I doubt he considers himself a comic-writing machine, so he's entitled to maybe chill occasionally. If he has health problems, and possibly has done all along, these may well impact on what he is doing and when. I don't want the guy to work himself into an early grave to write OotS.
I also can't comment on his snideness or whatever, since I haven't seen it on his website. Maybe someone is just good at taking offense, like at the completely harmless word "jip" - English slang, meaning a bit of pain or annoyance such as "My leg is giving me jip" (and the same context as the original post too). Insulting to gypsies? Do me a favour. Are you lot going to have to give up referring to limes in case I get annoyed?
(Further evidence of sense of humour failure: hey, Hayley talking funny was a joke. If someone found it annoying, or unfunny, one has to wonder why they actually like the comic. OK, it's not the only joke in there, but since they don't like at least one of them, and their creator even less, why are they even there? Oh, and you can ignore Hayley anyway - I never bothered to translate her and enjoyed the comics just fine.)
As for the marketing bit - well, the guy is entitled to run his business the way he likes. If there is no one to help him, and he is busy, or tired, or ill, or just wants to relax a bit - up to him. It has been said already - vote with your feet. Most of us can enjoy his comics without spending a penny - I haven't - so it's not exactly a sure-fire money spinner of a business model.
And he probably does the comics less as a cold-blooded business and more as a creative outlet and to have a laugh. Given the consistent quality (leaving aside the consistency of the publishing schedule) I would prefer he maintains that rather than a rigid publishing schedule with the possible decline in the product. At full tilt, he needs to come up with three good, original jokes each week. I couldn't do it, and I doubt most other people could either.
I write as a red-blooded capitalist. But this is where business, creativity and, yes, dammit, art coincide. It's not just about the money and deadlines.
I think Russ has taken that absurdity to new extremes
....just remember that he is entitled to it ;)
Russ,
I just finally read Rich Burlew's announcement on his website about how his health is affecting his work schedule and all I can tell you is that you're one heartless dude!! I was just kind of yanking your chain a little earlier in this thread, but what inspires you to be such an uncaring person? Jeez!!! Unprofessional? Good God, man!
IT'S A FREE WEBCOMIC
ABOUT GAMING!!!!!
I would hate to think what you might say about the obstetrician who got killed in a car wreck on his way to deliver your wife's baby.
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Russ...it's a free comic. If the author shelves it for the rest of his life, much less is "late" in updates...who are any of us to actually complain? This isn't a public service, this isn't a taxpayer-funded operation, and you're not paying him anything except your thanks for a fun and funny comic.OH MY GOODNESS IT'S A FREE WEBCOMIC! I HAD NO IDEA!
Have you read the thread, and seen people posting that? Did you think I missed it, even though I referred to it at least twice, and explained why it's a bogus argument?
The comic is advertising for his occupation. I'm certainly entitled to comment on what I think of his lack of ability to meet deadlines - that it shows a lack of professionalism.
In point of fact, Rich has my money for several collections, so I'm also a paying customer.
Is there any special reason why people are married to the idea that a customer can't disapprove of broken commitments?
You sir, are a cad (insert much stronger language on your own). The man is f-ing sick. Instead of wishing him a quick and full recovery, your ignorant, self-importance rears its ugly head as a call to force the sick man to meet his commitment because his free comic not being updated is interrupting the flow of your joy. I'm sure you will have some more replys about how he "owes" you and all his other fans, and how he is in a business and blah-blah-blah. Why don't you try being a human and showing some friggin' humanity.
People like this is why the world is turning into a bastard-place to live.Arse.
FH
OH MY GOODNESS IT'S A FREE WEBCOMIC! I HAD NO IDEA!
Russ...it's a free comic. If the author shelves it for the rest of his life, much less is "late" in updates...who are any of us to actually complain? This isn't a public service, this isn't a taxpayer-funded operation, and you're not paying him anything except your thanks for a fun and funny comic.
Yeah! It's a FREE comic! Didn't you know? That was sarcasm which you apparently don't get. The point is that it is FREE. Is this FREE comic used as advertising to sell the merchandise that Rich has to offer? Yes it probably is but it's still a FREE comic! If the delay in his comics causes you not to buy his books then it will probably only be you and Narthon who don't buy them! He has always let us know that there would be times when he would be off schedule. The fact that you are so annoyed by this makes me wonder about your priorities. Every day I click on "My Favorites" and hope that there will be a new strip. If there isn't, I'm sad but the next day I click on "My Favorites" again to see if it's there yet. When it finally is it makes me happy. I read it. I'm disappointed when it's over and I can't wait until the next strip is out. In no way whatsoever does the fact that there's no new strip ruin my life or make me angry at Mr. Burlew! If the quality of the product stays as superb as it has always been then I'm willing to wait on the strip. I will DEFINITELY buy his new book when it's available on Paizo and then I'll read it in one sitting because I love The Order of the Stick!
Actually I think that your rant, in a weird, backwards way, could be considered a compliment. It means that you enjoy the strip. Apparently not getting your OotS fix makes you very cranky.
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Quantum Field TheoryQFT?QFTPeople like this is why the world is turning into a bastard-place to live.
Arse.
Quite F-ing True.