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Hi James,
First let me say that my favorite part of Dragon magazine has been the demonomicon of Iggwliv articles you have written on the various Demon Lords. I know that we are getting a write-up of Orcus at CR 32 in Dungeon, and there is one final Demonomicon article in Dragon 359. All that said, there is something I was hoping you could help with. As near as I can tell, the only Demon Lords from FCI that won't have had an advanced write-up by the time Dragon finishes are Grazz't, Obox-Ob, Pale Night, Juiblex, and Yeenoghu. All of that said, I can advance those remaining Demon Lords using the rules outlined in FCI, but the one thing it didn't cover is the unique abilities to give the advanced Demon Lords. In my case, there are two specific Demon Lords from that list I need to advance for my home campaign that aren't covered in a Demonomicon article or in Dungeon, Grazz't and Obox-Ob. I can do all the number crunching and adding feats etc. using the formula from FCI, but I don't have a good idea what sorts of unique abilities to give the two of them. As examples of the sorts of things I am talking about, abilities like Demogorgons Aura of Demonic Command and Ability to summon 90 HD worth of Demons per day. So I was wondering if you could give some "unofficial" suggestions for what sorts of abilities to give them.
Also, I know from another thread, that you said Grazzt would have been around CR 32 if he had gotten a Demonomicon article, but what CR would you have chosen for Obox-Ob? If any of this can't be given away because of the last article in Dragon 359 I understand, but I was hoping I could pick your brain for suggestions on special powers/abilities for those two demon lords at higher CR, and to get your take on what Obox-Ob would be. Your article on Demogorgon implied that the only Demon Lord Demo really feared was Obox-Ob, but I don't know if that means he would be on the same level as Demo, or perhaps closer to Grazzt and Orcus.
Thanks in advance for the help.
i think i remember hearing that there is likely to be a final Demonomicon article in #359...
I really really really hope it's Graz'zt.
I really need a Demonomicon-style Graz'zt for my games. If Orcus is getting his stats in Dungeon, it's only fair Graz'zt gets his in Dragon #359. It's the "Big Three" after all. Why wouldn't Dragon finish off with the big three?
I am hoping that the last Demonomicon might actually contain BOTH Orcus and Graz'zt...but that's really wishful thinking. :(
Creative Director
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First of all... thanks for the kind words! It's always good to hear that I'm not the only one who gets a kick out of D&D's demons! :)
Let me answer the questions here in Shopping List Format.
1: Orcus gets a CR 32 stat block in Dungeon #149, and gets a little bit of additional flavor added on, but it's nothing nearly as extensive as what one gets in a Demonomicon article. So he's still on that list with Graz'zt, Obox-ob, Pale Night, and the rest as far as I'm concerned.
2: Unique abilities are just that; there's no real way to standardize them. Coming up with new powers for the advanced stat blocks has actually been one of the more fun parts of writing the articles, in fact.
3: Graz'zt's got 3 editions of history, so with a little sleuthing and research, there's plenty of source material out there to inspire unique abilities for him. Obox-ob doesn't have this luxury—I made him up for the FC1 and so he hasn't had much time to build up his legends. Still... a look at his stats should serve to inspire additional powers. (See note 6 below, though.)
4: Graz'zt is CR 32 in the Demonomicon series. Obox-ob is also CR 32.
5: Obox-ob is indeed the only demon that Demogorgon's really afraid of. Graz'zt and Orcus are certainly tough, but they're as interested in fighting each other as they are in fighting Demogorgon, plus both Graz'zt and Orcus have recently taken hits (Orcus died, Graz'zt spent a long time imprisoned by Iggwilv) that have distracted them from their efforts against Demogorgon. Not so Obox-ob. He's got no real close-by enemies to distract him, and he's had eons to recover from his own near-death. No one really knows what's going on down in Zionin. AND: Unlike Graz'zt and Orcus, Obox-ob has been the Prince of Demons. He probably knows trade secrets that no other demon in the Abyss knows.
6: There will be a Demonomicon in the last print issue of Dragon. There's a LOT more in that issue too, though, and as a result, I have less space than normal (6,000 words instead of 8,000 words). That, combined with the fact that no matter which demon I pick several others who were equally deserving of the spot get left out, made me decide to go a slightly different direction with this one. Details to come soon!
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6: There will be a Demonomicon in the last print issue of Dragon. There's a LOT more in that issue too, though, and as a result, I have less space than normal (6,000 words instead of 8,000 words). That, combined with the fact that no matter which demon I pick several others who were equally deserving of the spot get left out, made me decide to go a slightly different direction with this one. Details to come soon!
What's it gots in its pockets, my precious?
By the way, isn't it like 6:30 pm there? Go home already!
By the way, isn't it like 6:30 pm there? Go home already!I'm home now. 6:30 is actually an EARLY day for me, but since I roll in to work at about 10:30 AM... staying past 6:30 isn't really that bad at all. :-)
Are you absolutely SURE you can't fire Bulmahn and hire me? ;)
with all the work that has been put into the Demonomicon, is it a possibility to release them in a PDF format in the future, it would be great to have them all in one eash format to refrence.
Only if WotC does it, or allows Paizo the license to do it.
According to WotC, they do plan on keeping Demonomicon in their DI, since it's so popular. They want to provide material that large groups are crying out for, and Demonomicon is one of them.
According to WotC, they do plan on keeping Demonomicon in their DI, since it's so popular. They want to provide material that large groups are crying out for, and Demonomicon is one of them.
...only because Paizo did so well with it...
;)
First of all... thanks for the kind words! It's always good to hear that I'm not the only one who gets a kick out of D&D's demons! :)
Let me answer the questions here in Shopping List Format.
<snip>
So...is that a yes or a no on a CR 32 write-up of Graz'zt? Not a whole Demonomicon treatment since we all know that's not happening, but his stats? (like Orcus got his?)
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Creative Director
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So...is that a yes or a no on a CR 32 write-up of Graz'zt? Not a whole Demonomicon treatment since we all know that's not happening, but his stats? (like Orcus got his?)First of all... thanks for the kind words! It's always good to hear that I'm not the only one who gets a kick out of D&D's demons! :)
Let me answer the questions here in Shopping List Format.
<snip>
The Demonomicon in Dragon #359 will not have Graz'zt or Orcus. It will not be about a single demon lord, in fact, but several of them (mostly more obscure ones.) Think of it as James getting 6,000 words to say all the other things he wants to say about demons and demon lords before the print medium for the whole thing goes away.
Think of it as James getting 6,000 words to say all the other things he wants to say about demons and demon lords before the print medium for the whole thing goes away.
A bells tolls.
Think of it as James getting 6,000 words to say all the other things he wants to say about demons and demon lords before the print medium for the whole thing goes away.A bells tolls.
Oh I meant does Graz'zt get stats in Dungeon like Orcus will be getting his in it? Or maybe I misread something on another forum. Most likely that's what happened with me, heh.
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Creative Director
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Oh I meant does Graz'zt get stats in Dungeon like Orcus will be getting his in it? Or maybe I misread something on another forum. Most likely that's what happened with me, heh.Think of it as James getting 6,000 words to say all the other things he wants to say about demons and demon lords before the print medium for the whole thing goes away.A bells tolls.
Ah. No, Graz'zt doesn't really play a part in Savage Tide at all. He's doing stuff down in the Demonweb Pits.
The Demonomicon in Dragon #359 will not have Graz'zt or Orcus. It will not be about a single demon lord, in fact, but several of them (mostly more obscure ones.) Think of it as James getting 6,000 words to say all the other things he wants to say about demons and demon lords before the print medium for the whole thing goes away.
woohoo! if we weren't going to get a full article on a single demon lord, then that's exactly what i was hoping for. :)
now, here's hoping against hope that WotC's DI has room for the demonomicon and/or will let paizo do a demon lords/abyssal politics hardcover...
I roll in to work at about 10:30 AM...
got any openings? ;) heheh
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Thanks James!!! If WotC does decide to include the Demonomicon in it's digital initiative, I hope they pay James to continue them. I would very much like to get writeups on at least the remaining demon lords from FCI, but I guess we will see what happens. I am very much on the fence about whether or not I will invest money in WotC digital initiative, but if there are Demonomicon articles by James in them then I will likely make the financial commitment. I believe Pathfinder will do a spectacular job of replacing the content I was getting in Dungeon, so I will likely subscribe, but there isn't really a good source to replace the lost content from Dragon. I subscribed to Dragon exclusively for the Demonomicon articles and the AP support articles. Pathfinder will include it's own support material. So really the Demonomicon is what I will miss the most.
Regardless, thanks for the response.
I can't find myself getting too excited about a DI Demonomicon until I find out who's going to be writing it. Wolfgang Baur would be good or Bruce Cordell (who gave us Ashardalon, Aameul and Hethradiah).
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I can't find myself getting too excited about a DI Demonomicon until I find out who's going to be writing it. Wolfgang Baur would be good or Bruce Cordell (who gave us Ashardalon, Aameul and Hethradiah).
As long as they don't get the folks who contributed to the Realms of the Dragons II anthology....
If WotC does decide to include the Demonomicon in it's digital initiative, I hope they pay James to continue them. I would very much like to get writeups on at least the remaining demon lords from FCI, but I guess we will see what happens. I am very much on the fence about whether or not I will invest money in WotC digital initiative, but if there are Demonomicon articles by James in them then I will likely make the financial commitment.
i suspect that a lot of people are feeling this way. the presence or absence of Demonomicon won't be my sole determiner in deciding to subscribe to the DI, but it will go a long way in helping me make up my mind. ;)
The Demonomicon in Dragon #359 will not have Graz'zt or Orcus. It will not be about a single demon lord, in fact, but several of them (mostly more obscure ones.) Think of it as James getting 6,000 words to say all the other things he wants to say about demons and demon lords before the print medium for the whole thing goes away.So...is that a yes or a no on a CR 32 write-up of Graz'zt? Not a whole Demonomicon treatment since we all know that's not happening, but his stats? (like Orcus got his?)First of all... thanks for the kind words! It's always good to hear that I'm not the only one who gets a kick out of D&D's demons! :)
Let me answer the questions here in Shopping List Format.
<snip>
I'm intrigued what more obscure ones they are, are they ones that got just a name mentioned before back in 1e, or ones that were name-dropped by Xanxost the Slaad, or did they have write-ups before?
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Creative Director
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I'm intrigued what more obscure ones they are, are they ones that got just a name mentioned before back in 1e, or ones that were name-dropped by Xanxost the Slaad, or did they have write-ups before?
For the most part, they'll be ones that I've been mentioning here and there in previous Demonomicons. For example: You'll find out more information about Ugudenk. There's others that haven't yet been mentioned in a Demonomicon I'll be doing some stuff on too.
I'm intrigued what more obscure ones they are, are they ones that got just a name mentioned before back in 1e, or ones that were name-dropped by Xanxost the Slaad, or did they have write-ups before?For the most part, they'll be ones that I've been mentioning here and there in previous Demonomicons. For example: You'll find out more information about Ugudenk. There's others that haven't yet been mentioned in a Demonomicon I'll be doing some stuff on too.
So a few of the Obyrith lords, and maybe Xinivrae and Lynkhab?
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I'm intrigued what more obscure ones they are, are they ones that got just a name mentioned before back in 1e, or ones that were name-dropped by Xanxost the Slaad, or did they have write-ups before?For the most part, they'll be ones that I've been mentioning here and there in previous Demonomicons. For example: You'll find out more information about Ugudenk. There's others that haven't yet been mentioned in a Demonomicon I'll be doing some stuff on too.
Maybe Miska? Or the Queen of Chaos! Oooohhhh!
Dwiergus, Pale Night, and the Malgoth and I'll be happy. :)
Any hope for Siragle? I always liked that guy... ever since he showed up in a really cool adventure from Dungeon's past, I've been dropping him in and out of my campaigns. I was pretty excited when he was mentioned as having escaped the wells of darkness. It would be pretty cool to see him all demonomicon'd up.
Say, here's a question from me...
Any chance that the Demonomicon series will be continued in some form or another in future?
Say, here's a question from me...
Any chance that the Demonomicon series will be continued in some form or another in future?
Read some of the above posts.
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For the most part, they'll be ones that I've been mentioning here and there in previous Demonomicons. For example: You'll find out more information about Ugudenk. There's others that haven't yet been mentioned in a Demonomicon I'll be doing some stuff on too.I love (and respect) you a little more each and every day Mr. Jacobs. Thank you.
Crossing my finger's in hope's that Adimarchus gets his long over due props.
There was A LOT of info on Adimarchus in the SCAP. So he has already had an entire adventure path built around him. Further, it is the only AP you can presently get in a hardbound compilation. That rather makes him lower on the priority list IMHO. That said, with only 6,000 words, James will likely only be able to spend a few paragraphs on each Demon Lord he talks about in the final article if he intends to include more than a handful or so. Time will tell I suspect, but I doubt there is much more about Adimarchus that will be said beyond what was covered in the SCAP.
Adimarchus won't be mentioned. He's had a lot already in Shackled City, and on top of that, I kind of assume he's dead. So, no Adimarchus.
***Keeps Siragle hopes alive.***
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Creative Director
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Adimarchus won't be mentioned. He's had a lot already in Shackled City, and on top of that, I kind of assume he's dead. So, no Adimarchus.***Keeps Siragle hopes alive.***
Probably no Siragle. I almost picked him as one of the demons to focus on, truth be told, but decided on others. If there's room, I might do something with him... but I wouldn't count on it.
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Creative Director
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There were two demon lords in the Demogorgon article; don't remember their names, but Demogorgon's always fighting with them. One is the demon lord of drowned dead...and his abyssal lair was somewhat described. Is there anything else anywhere on those two guys?
Sounds like you're talking about Azuvidexus and Zuregurex. I made both of them up, but in the case of Azuvidexus, I started making up his story in an old set of articles I wrote for the WotC website called "The Crawling Jungle," which covers what happens on the Material Plane after N'gharl got compressed down to a seed and thrown into a jungle there, with more info about the Cult of the Ravenous Maw.
got linkage? ;)
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There were two demon lords in the Demogorgon article; don't remember their names, but Demogorgon's always fighting with them. One is the demon lord of drowned dead...and his abyssal lair was somewhat described. Is there anything else anywhere on those two guys?Sounds like you're talking about Azuvidexus and Zuregurex. I made both of them up, but in the case of Azuvidexus, I started making up his story in an old set of articles I wrote for the WotC website called "The Crawling Jungle," which covers what happens on the Material Plane after N'gharl got compressed down to a seed and thrown into a jungle there, with more info about the Cult of the Ravenous Maw.
Yeah, that's the two guys. Crawling Jungle....I'll look for it.
I'm sure someone has asked this already, but will there be a hardcover collected edition when it's all said and done?
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Contributor
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I'm sure someone has asked this already, but will there be a hardcover collected edition when it's all said and done?
If Wizards of the Coast lets us: probably.
If not: no.
Sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer, but right now we have to hear back from our friends down in Renton. :)
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Creative Director
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The Crawling Jungle articles start HERE. They don't match up exactly with what I ended up doing in the Demonomicon of Iggwilv (primarilly since I wrote the Crawling Jungle stuff while WotC was still kind of deciding what they were doing with demon lords, and before I had the guts to really get in there and tinker with hardwired-canon). There's still some fun stuff in there though! :)
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Just read the Demogorgon Demonomicon article. Awesome stuff there James, I really like the origin story (is that a Doc Jacobs original, or has that story been told elsewhere?), and all the other little tid-bits.
The artwork was really cool too, the repeat of the cover illustration with the darker tones was really good, and that is a very evocative and powerful looking Demogorgon!
Will we see a repeat of this version of the Demogorgon stat block in the final Dungeon? Or should I just hold my horses, wait and see? ;-)
The most notable demon lord that has my attention is Ulgurshek (spelling?). Given his ambiguous status as either a plane unto himself, or a demon lord, I'd love to hear more of this entity discussed. But I get the feeling it might be too involved of a subject to tackle in a 6000 word article. (I write in my spare time--6000 words go fast, don't they?)
Ulgurshek is actually not a demon at all. He is something older. A draeden.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draeden
Neat. I had no idea. Thanks for the heads up!