Creative Director
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Ok then. We'll be running a big index of all the Dungeon adventures (and campaign workbooks, and maps of mystery, and critical threats, etc. etc.) in Dungeon #150. Now... I know how I'd like to see the index look, but it's not just for me. SO!
What would you want a Dungeon Index to look like? Do you want the index sorted by edition? Do you want to have seperate headers for specific campaign settings? Do you want to have all the Willie Walsh adventures grouped in one place?
Make your voice heard!
Columns I can think of that the index could use:
Dungeon Issue and Date
Adventure Level
Adventure Setting (Forest, Urban, Dungeon, Mountains, etc.)
Author
One line synopsis
Kobold Press
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I'd like to see a chronological listing, but it's not really practical except for the historian in me.
I'd like to see things listed by author, but I think authorship isn't the key indicator when I'm looking for something to run.
Ultimately, I'd want things sorted by level (and maybe into editions, though I've never found it tough to convert). I'd also love indicators of type (dungeon, city, wilderness at a minimum, though adding mystery, underdark, and other categories would be fun).
I don't care about campaign settings for this purpose.
Oh, and a list of new monsters would be great as well. Dungeon has introduced a lot of them over the years.
PS. Good on you for compiling this! I know it's a lot of work, but it's so incredibly helpful to have on paper. I was really happy with the Monster Ecologies listing; same story there.
Ok then. We'll be running a big index of all the Dungeon adventures (and campaign workbooks, and maps of mystery, and critical threats, etc. etc.) in Dungeon #150. Now... I know how I'd like to see the index look, but it's not just for me. SO!
What would you want a Dungeon Index to look like? Do you want the index sorted by edition? Do you want to have seperate headers for specific campaign settings? Do you want to have all the Willie Walsh adventures grouped in one place?
Make your voice heard!
Thanks for asking, James!
I think there should be headings for:
. edition
. party level
. campaign setting
. terrain
. author (somewhat less important than the other items)
. notes (e.g., side trek, AoW Adventure path, solo adventure, etc.)
. issue number
Ideally, the index would have two separate sections: one for 1st/2nd edition AD&D, the other for D&D 3.0/3.5. Then, within each section, you could list the adventures according to a) party level, and then listed according to b)issue (in chronological order). From there, each adventure would be classified according to campaign setting, terrain, etc.
I don't know if you were planning on restricting the index to adventures. If you do include other features in the index (e.g, campaign workbooks, critical threats, maps of mystery, etc.), they should be provided with their own sections in the index as well.
What I find less useful are indexes that simply list issue content by chronological order... not the most efficient way to search for stuff.
Thanks for your consideration!
EDIT: scenarios for other game systems (e.g., Gamma World, etc.) could be included in a miscellaneous section.
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I'd like to see the adventures arranged by issue, then, for example, and in an Excel format:
Issue: 135
Edition: v3.5
Title: Funeral Procession
Author: Mark A. Hart
Level: 1-5
Setting: Any; Urban; Saltmarsh
Tone: Dark, Horror
# Encounters: 23
Highest CR: 4
Major NPC: Eladara Lilybrook, F, H, Necro.4, HP19
Brief: For months the brutal serial killer Crimson stalked the streets of Saltmarsh. Now he lies dead, but the danger has not passed. Crimson's wicked soul is restless, and a local cult of Graz'ztites has plans for the coming horror.
Notes: Saltmarsh was first encountered in a series of AD&D 1E modules developed for the UK branch of TSR's AD&D game line, blah, blah...
Also, if the major NPC, or the setting specifics (Saltmarsh) were encountered in other adventures/issues/modules, this could be indicated by an Also Appearing column, or a parenthetical in the appropriate column...
I would also like to see the campaign setting listed for the adventure, since some of the PCs and events of some adventures have made it into other adventures and stories over the years (making it interesting to research where an NPC or artifact or what have you might have come up with first).
Level can be tricky, since levels weren't consistant between editions and between classes in the same edition. I tried to set up an index of FR adventures along these lines, and it was difficult, especially when, in older editions, there wasn't really a "standard" party structure (remember those oddball adventures that were for 8-10 characters that came out from time to time? Or those adventures that had a massive level range).
The edition "breaks" would be good to know. And the esteemed Mr. Baur has a good point . . . just from an information junkies point of view, it would be fun to know when an adventure was the first to introduce a given monster.
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I was psyched to read in the issue that arrived yesterday that an index would be included in #150! As for what I'd use it for, I'd likely use it to create my own "adventure path" of sorts, so the following headings (most are the same as those already given) would be:
1. Name (alphabetically arranged)
2. Author
3. Issue
4. Level
5. Setting (dungeon, urban, wilderness)
6. Genre (dungeon crawl, battlefield, horror, mystery, etc.--I trust y'all could better classify them than I!)
7. Setting (inclusive--better than "generic"!--Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, PlaneScape, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Eberron... you get the idea)
And then, the one that would be especially nifty if there's room:
8. Related adventures (those in a series... I dunno, perhaps color-code these if you have a large enough palette, or simply list the other adventures that are part of a series, such as the APs or the "Shards of Eberron")
An index is something that's been requested for a long, long time at the forums. You get +5 Karma! Save up enough, and you can learn a new Power Stunt. Thank you again.
I'm also very excited about the index. I have made one for every adventure I own, but it would be nice to have for the ones I don't, not to mention the fact that yours will likely be far better than mine.
I've found that level, edition, and primary type (urban, swamp, plane of the purple glowlamp, etc) of adventure are the most important to me.
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James,
Whatever format ends up printed in the magazine - is there a possibility for posting a sortable version online here? Then users can click on column headings and have it sort within your list (by author, date, levels, setting, title, etc.)
The hard work is assembling the data, being able to sort the data after that should be fairly straight-forward.
So glad to hear you are including this in #150!
-Lori
James,
Whatever format ends up printed in the magazine - is there a possibility for posting a sortable version online here? Then users can click on column headings and have it sort within your list (by author, date, levels, setting, title, etc.)
I second that. A downloadable excel file would be greatly appreciated. I actually have my own index from 3.0 and forward, with name, issue it appeared, level, setting (Realms, Eberron), adventure type (Urban, Crawl, Wilderness) and author.
For the printed version, I would think it best to have alternate lists for editions, and then to list them by level. I use the index to find possible adventures for using for my players, and this is easiest accomplished if it is sorted by level.
I think the essential headings would be as follows:-
Edition. As well as 1st/2nd/3E/3.5, don't forget there used to be a difference between D&D and AD&D. There were also one or two adventures published for games such as Marvel Superheroes and Top Secret!
Title.
Issue #.
Character Levels. This is expressed quite differently in different editions, so it may be sensible to separate out 1st/2nd from 3E/3.5, as others have suggested. (It used to be "For 5-8 PCs of levels 1-3.")
Setting. I'm not sure whether Greyhawk/Ravenloft/Oriental should be lumped in with desert/urban/seagoing, or whether those should be two separate categories.
Notes. In my own handwritten Dungeon index (which I later incompletely converted to a spreadsheet), this was the final heading, under which I noted the main adversaries, and a comment on the hook or style of the adventure (e.g. if it was a mystery to be solved, or was heavily role-playing with little combat). I found this very handy for maintaining variety - the players don't want to always be dealing with undead, for example.
Finally, as has already been mentioned, by far the most useful thing would be to have an online/downloadable version of the index that is searchable and sortable.
Thanks - I'm looking forward to it!
This is what I'd hope for:
Issue
Adventure Name
Level
Category (Low, Mid, High)
Setting (FR, Eberron, Generic etc.)
Type (Urban, Dungeon, Wilderness, Side-Trek etc.)
Edition (3.5, 1st, Alternity etc.)
Notes (<Adv Path Name> 3 of 12, Sequel to XXX in issue 32 etc.)
But really, this stuff would be great in excel format, in the magazine itself you'd probably have to lose some of it :(
Ok then. We'll be running a big index of all the Dungeon adventures (and campaign workbooks, and maps of mystery, and critical threats, etc. etc.) in Dungeon #150. Now... I know how I'd like to see the index look, but it's not just for me. SO!
What would you want a Dungeon Index to look like? Do you want the index sorted by edition? Do you want to have seperate headers for specific campaign settings? Do you want to have all the Willie Walsh adventures grouped in one place?
Make your voice heard!
In a fit of nostalgia and despair at the impending end of my all-time favorite magazine, I recently spent several nights updating my own DUNGEON index. Mine's pretty simple and straightforward, a chronological issue-by-issue index featuring:
Adventure Title/Author/Level (and Campaign Setting)/Table of Contents blurb.
The good thing about a set-up like this is that you can simply have a series of notes marking what issue AD&D 2nd Edition modules began, when 3rd Edition adventures began (issue #82), when Polyhedron was merged into DUNGEON (issue #90), etc. This structure might save some space, as you'd only have to note exceptions for game editions (like the old D&D system, or the handful of Top Secret/Marvel/Dark*Matter adventures that appeared in the magazine).
Personally, I'd like to see all the Forgotten Realms adventures under a separate heading, all the Critical Threats under a separate heading, all the Campaign Workbook: The Casts under a separate heading, etc. I definitely differentiate between actual adventures and shorter articles like the Campaign Workbook stuff, and wouldn't want them all mashed into one index.
In compiling my own index I began to realize how much good stuff I'd been overlooking towards the tail-end of all my recent DUNGEON Magazines, and I also realized how useless a chronological, issue-by-issue index was for all that good stuff. Having separate indices for Dungeoncraft articles, Campaign Workbook articles, Maps of Mystery, etc. would be a godsend.
Not much to add, except this: for party level, could you pretty please have the actual level (e.g., "11th"), rather than the magazine-listed level range (e.g., "Mid Level, 6th-12th"). Outside of that, a blurb and authorship are useful. Example:
Serpents of Scuttlecove . 15th . Pett . STAP Assault on pirate fleet HQ . #146 .
Campaign setting could be color-coded to save space: e.g., Greyhawk = gray; Forgotten Realms = yellow; Eberron = pale blue; Generic/Any = white.
Ultimately, I'd want things sorted by level (and maybe into editions, though I've never found it tough to convert). I'd also love indicators of type (dungeon, city, wilderness at a minimum, though adding mystery, underdark, and other categories would be fun).
I don't care about campaign settings for this purpose.
Oh, and a list of new monsters would be great as well. Dungeon has introduced a lot of them over the years.
Ditto all that.
If you need help with the monsters portion, we've got an index here:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=67183
I am pretty open to what has already been stated above but I must add this does need to have either an online or download version. This will allow many of us to sort them how we please. I view this as critical since there is no way to please everyone except by this method.
- Adventures sorted by starting Level -
That's the main thing for me, if that's there I'll be happy regardless of whatever else you do :)
Edit:
Just thinking about it - Sorting the fluff articles by campaign setting would be nice as well.
Setting and edition are very important to me, next would come the level of the adventure, then author, and type adventure.
Setting and level ranges.
I'd like to see the adventures arranged by issue, then, for example, and in an Excel format:
As great as an idea as a Dungeon Index would be, I can't really see a good way to put it in a magazine. There's just too much.
If I were to narrow it down:
Adventure Name
Level
Edition
Type (using the GameMastery E, J, D, etc)
Subtype (Wilderness, Dungeon, etc)
One line description.
It's true home would be online, searchable, and able to be downloaded. I suggest against Excel, only because not everyone has it. My suggestion would be as a "website" (a main page with the data in the magazine, hyperlinked to a new that gives detail like Andrew suggested).
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Creative Director
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Wow. Thanks for all the input, everyone! The thing that most surprises me is that no one really wants to see the index sorted by adventure title alphabetically, which is how every Dungeon index before has been done.
One thing that I can guarentee won't be in the index, by the way, is a synopsis of each adventure. Dungeon has printed a little more than 650 adventures in all (and that doesn't touch things like Critical Threats or Campaign Workbook entries or maps of mystery), and the adventures alone, running in a 2 column format with one adventure/author/level/issue entry each taking up one line of text (sorted alphabetically and divided into editions and campaign settings) takes up about 10 pages. At this point, adding much else to the index means that we have to cut from the adventures in the issue to make things fit, and that's not gonna happen.
So; no summaries, alas.
I'll check into the possibility of online versions of the index, but frankly, there's already a lot of online resources out there for Dungeon.
In any event, this index is also kind of servng as a "credits section" for Dungeon as well, or for the more gloomy-minded, a memorial.
SO! Let me phrase the question a little differently:
Would an index, split into sections organized by game edition/campaign setting and then alphabetized by adventure break many hearts?
An alphabetical list has the advantage of being easy to look up adventures if you know the title, which plays to folk who know what adventure they want to run but can't remember what iss ue it was in.
A list sorted by issue makes it difficult/impossible to find an exact adventure; it stops being an index at this point, in my opinion, and becomes something more like a Ginormous table of contents.
A list sorted by level makes it easy for a DM to skim down by level to pick an adventure that way, but since we don't have room to list adventure summaries, all he'll have to go on is the title for deciding if the adventure's appropriate for his game, so I'm unsure how useful this method will be.
And of course, if we CAN get this online in a serchable/sortable format (no promisies!)... the organization type kinda becomes a moot point.
Well, now that you put it that way....
If its going to be an index most useful for DMs, then sorted by character level, adventure name, issue and date, and setting type (wilderness, etc) makes the most sense.
However, if its going to be more of a memorial/ending credits to Dungeon Magazine, then I recommend going in Chronological order, issue number and date, adventure name, and author name.
I would like to see it split into two sections (1st/2nd ed and 3.x ed) and organized by level.
In my own database of 3.x Dungeon adventures, the first organization title to pop up is by level, which makes it very easy when searching for an appropriate adventure. Sometimes the titles give no clue, so I may have to look through 4-5 issues, but a quick glance is enough to get me started.
Since I personally can rarely correctly recall the title of an adventure I am looking for, but can narrow it down to approximate level, I like the organization by level. Seeing the title then is usually sufficient to jog my memory the rest of the way.
I've also been experimenting with FileMakerPro Advanced, a kind of souped up version of an Excel spreadsheet, that allows to to organzie and search by level, title, edition, setting, campaign arc, new monsters or magic items, or primary foes. Sweet for a computer; not so sweet to print in a magazine. Still, even in my early version Excel spreadsheet, I had several columns starting with level, title issue #, author, setting/campaign arc, type of adventure, indicators if there were new monsters or magic or spells, a checkbox if it met my current campaign needs, and a small dialog box (limited to three or four words) for synopsis. The latter was sometiems insufficent, but you'd be surprised at how well "Giants!!!" or "Drow!" or even "lame" works.
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Alphabetical or chronological order should only be a priority if your readers know what issue or what title, specificaly, they are looking for. I don't believe this will be the case.
If I'm looking to run a module on the fly I need 2 pieces of info when I check an index, party level and terrain or type. Let's say, for example, my PCs need to level before they take on the next leg of the campaign; an alphabetical or chronilogical organized list would be nearly useless. Dungeon is all about giving the DM an easier, ready made stack of modules; a comprehensive index should reflect that.
If the list is only meant to be for nostalgia, make it chronological. If it is only to be useful for readers who know the adventure titles and have a complete set, make it alphabetical. I'll appreciate it still but will be quite disappointed.
Of course, I want the author's name and the campaign setting in addition; thanks for asking;)
-W. E. Ray
Would an index, split into sections organized by game edition/campaign setting and then alphabetized by adventure break many hearts?
That, to me, sound fine.
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Hmmm, thinking about my post I figured I'd show instead of tell.
INDEX:
City Settings
Party level 1-5
Dun # "Title" author
Dun # "Title" author
Dun # "Title" author
etc.
City Settings
Party level 6-11
Dun # "Title" author
etc.
Underdark Settings
Party level etc.
etc.
This kind of index would be EXTREMELY useful. You could certainly have a sidebar letting your readers know the years of publication and the years of the beginnings of the various editions of D&D.
The weakness I see of this kind of format is that there will be times of ambiguity that will make tough decisions. Some longer adventures have two settings; what group do you put them in. Perhaps being redundant on occassion won't take up too much space???
-W. E. Ray
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Hmmm, thinking about my post I figured I'd show instead of tell.
INDEX:
City Settings
Party level 1-5
Dun # "Title" author
Dun # "Title" author
Dun # "Title" author
etc.City Settings
Party level 6-11
Dun # "Title" author
etc.Underdark Settings
Party level etc.
etc.This kind of index would be EXTREMELY useful. You could certainly have a sidebar letting your readers know the years of publication and the years of the beginnings of the various editions of D&D.
The weakness I see of this kind of format is that there will be times of ambiguity that will make tough decisions. Some longer adventures have two settings; what group do you put them in. Perhaps being redundant on occassion won't take up too much space???
-W. E. Ray
I like this ides, too. In fact, it's exactly what I need.
The things that are important to me to be in the table are Adventure Name, Issue Number, Party Level, Edition (3E, 3.5E, etc.), Location (Urban, Wilderness, Dungeon, etc.), Type (Adventure, Side Trek, Critical Threat, etc.), Author, Campaign Setting (if any).
What would make it most useful to me though is if you could post the list as an Excel spreadsheet. That way I could sort the list in whatever order I wanted to. By having the information in an Excel spreadsheet it would also be possible for me ro delete any issues that I didn't own. That way I can just search through the adventures that I have when trying to pick an adventure to run my group through.
Olaf the Stout
Adventure Name, Edition, Party Level, Terrain, Setting, Author - Issue#
Maps of Mystery: Name, Terrain, Cartographer - Issue #
Critical Threat: Name, CR - Issue #
I'm still partial to my original post (slightly revised below), but to clarify more...
Edition
Type (Wilderness, Dungeon, etc)
Adventure Name
Level
Issue
Broken into Edition, then Type, ordered by Adventure name.
If you're looking for a quick game in 3e or 3.5, it would be easier to find it by the Edition. The type would also allow the DM to find the feel that he wants quite easily. If I were to look for an adventure, I'd say "So, I'm looking for a 3/3.5 that's a dungeon crawl and 5th level." I might have to find my level in the list, but it wouldn't be difficult.
Ex:
Basic Edition
...
1st Edition
...
2nd Edition
----Dungeon Crawl
--------Title--------------------Level----Issue
--------Night Below--------------1-15-----#102
----Wilderness
--------Title--------------------Level----Issue
--------Ruins of Myth Dranor-----5-10-----#98
3rd Edition
....
One thing that I can guarentee won't be in the index, by the way, is a synopsis of each adventure. Dungeon has printed a little more than 650 adventures in all (and that doesn't touch things like Critical Threats or Campaign Workbook entries or maps of mystery), and the adventures alone, running in a 2 column format with one adventure/author/level/issue entry each taking up one line of text (sorted alphabetically and divided into editions and campaign settings) takes up about 10 pages. At this point, adding much else to the index means that we have to cut from the adventures in the issue to make things fit, and that's not gonna happen.
My preference, then? Lose the index altogether. Titles are meaningless to me; I can't remember what I named my own homebrew adventures--I just remember them as "that one on the tropical island," or "the one with illusionist who creates the demi-shadow fallen planetars." Issue # can be looked up on the Paizo website if you have the adventure name, though.
So, maybe just a brief list of who wrote what?
Example:
"Jacobs, James: Porphyry House Horror (#95), Into the Wormcrawl Fissure (#134), There is No Honor (#139)."
That way I could complete my evil collection of Logue and Pett works, and see which of them has truly given up the most sleep.
Would an index, split into sections organized by game edition/campaign setting and then alphabetized by adventure break many hearts?An alphabetical list has the advantage of being easy to look up adventures if you know the title, which plays to folk who know what adventure they want to run but can't remember what iss ue it was in.
Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but an alphabetical list holds virtually no appeal for me. I remember very few adventure titles (especially if they were published a while ago), but will remember their general level range if they caught my eye... and when I build a campaign, a quick scan of Dungeon adventures by level range is the most efficient way to go. For my uses and purposes, an alphabetical listing would be as useless as a list sorted by issue number. I'd go as far as to say that I would be very annoyed to find that index taking up a full 10 pages in my final issue of Dungeon... and believe me, I really would find a comprehensive index useful!
A list sorted by issue makes it difficult/impossible to find an exact adventure; it stops being an index at this point, in my opinion, and becomes something more like a Ginormous table of contents.
Agreed.
A list sorted by level makes it easy for a DM to skim down by level to pick an adventure that way, but since we don't have room to list adventure summaries, all he'll have to go on is the title for deciding if the adventure's appropriate for his game, so I'm unsure how...
This still works best for me. At least I'll have a complete menu of adventures appropriate for a particular level at my fingertips (no need to skim through 10 index pages to find all the 1st level adventures), including those published in issues I might not have (which, in turn, might convince me to purchase those stray issues from Paizo or e-bay, if Paizo has run out of stock)...
Sorry if my comments seem dry/terse, it isn't the intention. I've just got a few things going on in the background right now, and no time to edit for "tone." Thanks again for taking the time to solicit your readers' feedback, James!
Oh, and one more thing... I still feel strongly about including a theme and/or terrain column in the index... small font doesn't bother me, and those columns would increase the index's usefulness dramatically!
For what it's worth, I'd be okay with what tdewitt suggested, especially if it also included an entry for campaign setting...
I've found such an index extremely helpful in selecting adventures for my next campaign. I used an index sorted by level, with columns for (in order) Level, Title, Campaign Setting, Adventure Setting, Issue #, and Page #.
My 2cp.
I've found such an index extremely helpful in selecting adventures for my next campaign. I used an index sorted by level, with columns for (in order) Level, Title, Campaign Setting, Adventure Setting, Issue #, and Page #.
My 2cp.
IMO, that would be perfect, if it were subdivided by game edition.
Wow, this index will either require a magnifying glass to read it, or it's going to cover several pages. I'm very excited. :-)
I think I'd rather just have another adventure. Maybe one of mine, but I'm selfish that way.
GGG
PS Dividing an adventure along type (i.e. Wilderness, Urban, Dungeon Crawl, Planar, Mystery, etc...) is tough when you consider the number of adventures that take place in multiple locations or have multiple themes.
Still, ten pages of index (and that's just the adventures!), that could have been one more rock solid adventure (by maybe Leati, Baur, Greer, Kortes, Logue, Pett, Vaughan, Conners, Boyd, Jacobs, Bulmahn, Kuntz, Richards, or even Walsh or some other past luminary!), a half dozen Critical Threats, a mini-bestiary of Wandering Monsters, a folio of Maps of Mystery, or some huge combination of the above that that could have been added to an online list. Instead I'm getting a dozen pages of spreadsheets. No doubt there will be some pretty art in the margins, but the fact remains it will still be a dozen page chart. I realize it's going to happen, and that folks have wanted it to happen for a while, but still....
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Creative Director
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Cool; thanks for all the input, everyone! Looks like I'll be sorting the index by edition/setting and then by level, which should make it easy to grab adventures to fit whatever current needs you've got for your campaign's level. Plus, we'll be having some sidebars in there that do sub lists. Indexes of all the Campaign Workbooks, Critical threats, and Maps of Mystery too.
Probalby won't include terrains thoguh, since that'd push many of the entries into 2 lines and as mentioned above, many adventures have more than one terrain.
And in the end, it's got to serve as much as a "credits page" as an index, really. We'll be spicing it up with art here and there so it's got some other surprises in there too (while not making the index itself hard to read).
And also in the end... I'll see what I can do about getting the whole thing online in a serchable format too. No promises there... but it currently DOES exist as an Excel spreadsheet, so it ain't impossible...
Cool; thanks for all the input, everyone! Looks like I'll be sorting the index by edition/setting and then by level, which should make it easy to grab adventures to fit whatever current needs you've got for your campaign's level. Plus, we'll be having some sidebars in there that do sub lists. Indexes of all the Campaign Workbooks, Critical threats, and Maps of Mystery too.
Probalby won't include terrains thoguh, since that'd push many of the entries into 2 lines and as mentioned above, many adventures have more than one terrain.
And in the end, it's got to serve as much as a "credits page" as an index, really. We'll be spicing it up with art here and there so it's got some other surprises in there too (while not making the index itself hard to read).
And also in the end... I'll see what I can do about getting the whole thing online in a serchable format too. No promises there... but it currently DOES exist as an Excel spreadsheet, so it ain't impossible...
It would not take that terribly much to bring up a site like this... I'm sure that there would be plenty of volunteers to help out if you simply asked. (and of course provided host server / db to use)
A system for indicating if you own an issue and ranking / comments could also be built in fairly easily.
but it currently DOES exist as an Excel spreadsheet, so it ain't impossible...
If you publish it online, I suggest converting it to a PDF, or have multiple formats. Not everyone has Excel, and Works may help as well.
If it's a text PDF, you can easily find based on key words.
Thanks!