A player in my new game just told me that he wants to play an incarnate with Vow of Poverty. I'm looking the feat over right now, because if I had a nickel for every time someone claimed that this feat is overpowered...
Anyway, the only two things that I really don't like about VoP is the huge AC bonus that they get which is typed as 'exalted' and their DR X/evil at later levels.
So what gives? Is there something that I'm missing?
A player in my new game just told me that he wants to play an incarnate with Vow of Poverty. I'm looking the feat over right now, because if I had a nickel for every time someone claimed that this feat is overpowered...
Anyway, the only two things that I really don't like about VoP is the huge AC bonus that they get which is typed as 'exalted' and their DR X/evil at later levels.
So what gives? Is there something that I'm missing?
That pretty much sums it up. Vow of poverty uses two feats that give a whole bunch of AC and stat boosts, which is not too big of a deal cause they don't get equipment. Unless the PC ends up playing a class that doesn't want equipment and can self buff (which does not violate the vow). For example: an incarnate can add to the stat boosts and (basically) untyped AC bonuses with soulmelds and become the biggest combat monster in your group.
Consider it carefully. If a PC wants to play a VoP fighter there will be no problem, but a monk, druid, psychic warrior, warlock, sorcerer, or incarnate might raise an eyebrow or five.
+1. It also depends on if the player is a good role player vice roll player. A player who really gets intot he Exalted aspect of the charatcer, doing good deeds, feeding the poor, etc, will be less of a problem than someone who wants the feat for its stat benes. Not saying the former guy isn;t secretly thinking the same thing, but at least he is trying to look pious :)
Well I've only met this guy once, but my impression of him is that he does a bit of both roll- and roleplaying. I just wrote up an alternate VoP progression that grants a few more bonuses, but does away with the 'exalted' type bonus, the DR X/evil and reduces the bonus feat progression to 1/3 levels. If VoP still ends up causing major grief, I'll nerf it further.
The biggest, and IMO, the only, drawback to VoP is that it forces the DM to give out treasure to everyone else in the party on par with the PC's VoP bonuses. It takes control of the party's power level away from the DM, which is almost always a bad thing.
That being said, if you look at the bonuses and think "Meh, not so bad," then by all means let them use it as is. If it freaks you out, chances are you give out less treasure than VoP makes up for, so naturally you'll resist it.
The biggest, and IMO, the only, drawback to VoP is that it forces the DM to give out treasure to everyone else in the party on par with the PC's VoP bonuses. It takes control of the party's power level away from the DM, which is almost always a bad thing.
That being said, if you look at the bonuses and think "Meh, not so bad," then by all means let them use it as is. If it freaks you out, chances are you give out less treasure than VoP makes up for, so naturally you'll resist it.
Well, looking at the bonuses and then considering the ease with which I'll be allowing my players to buy those bonuses (and better) in magic item form, VoP actually stinks. The only difference will be that the VoP bonuses will be a little better at lower levels, while magic item bonuses will be better at higher levels, because of the way the wealth-by-level guidelines balloon.
After my VoP edit, my only real concern is that not having magic items interfering with the incarnate's soulmelds will cause me headaches. We'll see.
One thing a lot of people don't notice about VoP is the limitations. Sure, you can exist in the vacuum of space, have an AC through the roof, and get a very nice suite of stat boosts, among other things, but thats about ALL you get.
Think about a lot of high level (10+) encounters in say, Age of Worms, or Savage Tide. Undead bane is awesome in AoW, but none for the VoP character. Fly can be used to great advantage in Savage Tide; no fly for you, lootless boy.
VoP is strong in the core magic abilities (the ones the Magic Item Compendium marks as being benchmarks for the "value" of other powers) but it gives jack and squat in the range of "other powers". Not needing to breath, eat, or drink are about the extent of them.
So, no FLY (Boots of Flying), no DISPLACEMENT (Cloak of Displacement), no DIMENSION DOOR (Cape of the Mountebank), no SPEED (Boots of Striding and Sprining, Boots of Haste), no EFFECTIVE ENHANCEMENT BONUSES (Bane, Flaming, Disrupting, Vorpal).
And thats just from the DMG.
True, a monk, warlock, psionic, or incarnate character can cause a lot of problems (you should see a VoP Binder, ye gods!) but a well constructed adventure will generally keep most VoP characters from dominating just because they just can't have a solution for most of the common non-combat problems (including the ones that come up mid-combat)
Well, looking at the bonuses and then considering the ease with which I'll be allowing my players to buy those bonuses (and better) in magic item form, VoP actually stinks. The only difference will be that the VoP bonuses will be a little better at lower levels, while magic item bonuses will be better at higher levels, because of the way the wealth-by-level guidelines balloon.After my VoP edit, my only real concern is that not having magic items interfering with the incarnate's soulmelds will cause me headaches. We'll see.
Still look at how much it would cost your players to actually buy the equivalent stuff. The VoP player is at least 3 levels above the rest of the players in equivalent wealth up through 10th level and I'm assuming that bonus feats are worthless - which they most certainly are not. Oh sure a big chunk of this is in massive bonus' to AC but that is hardly going to be a huge problem. Massive bonus to AC is one of the best possible benefits and most of the rest of the bonus' come in ability scores. Sure there is some loss of versatility and the idea of a fighter with this feat is insane but for some characters - especially Monks, well this would mostly be what one is aiming to buy in any case.
Sure you are limited - your companions (read the parties mage and cleric) will have to keep that somewhat in mind. If you want to fly they'll have to cast that on you but, well that's what mages are for.
Its true that the ballooning wealth by level guidelines will eventually outstrip the VoP but this does not really take place until at least 16th level. For the vast majority of the campaign you'll be really extra special kick ass and maybe for the last few levels - if the game even gets to 16th level, you might wish you had money instead of the VoP.
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Isn't the real limiting factor for the vow of poverty that the character must be exalted? So any time they don't act in an exalted manner then they should lose access to the feat benefits until they atone. For any major violation or continually not acting in an exalted fashion then they lose it permanently.
Playing an exalted chaarcter is hard work. It is a great achievement if the player accomplishes it but it should never be assumed that just becasue the player says the character is exalted and has an exalted feat that they are actually exalted. Make the player work to keep their exalted status. Also, regularly check with the other players that they see the character as being exalted.
The real problem with the VoP doesn't come up until you add the Vow of Peace and Vow of Nonviolence. With all 3 of these feats together (easily achieved as a result of VoP bonus exalted feats) is that rather than a so-so +6 additional AC, it adds a total of +12 beyond your normal bonuses from VoP, also the calm emotions aura and the fact that even if someone manages to strike through your crazed AC, they must make a Fort save or have their weapon shatter.
Why are all you guys calling these "problems"?
Taking Vow of Povert (and especially taking all 3 of those feats) keeps the character so rooted and straight-jacketed with what actions that character can take that it's not really worth it.
At almost any moment, the DM can say,"You broke this vow by doing that...you also broke this other vow by doing that." Boom! There goes your feats and abilities that came with it.
Break those vows just once and it's freakin' over. It's like trying to walk across a floor with pools of magma, shards of glass, and contact poison bare-footed without coming to any harm whatsoever. As a previous poster stated, taking those feats and having those benefits requires some strict role-play and being strictly "exalted".
I think those feats are perfectly balanced. It's no different than taking Spellfire Wielder. Since, after all, having that feat means you're likely to have a million enemies and you need to have DM's permission first.
Isn't the real limiting factor for the vow of poverty that the character must be exalted? So any time they don't act in an exalted manner then they should lose access to the feat benefits until they atone. For any major violation or continually not acting in an exalted fashion then they lose it permanently.
Playing an exalted chaarcter is hard work. It is a great achievement if the player accomplishes it but it should never be assumed that just becasue the player says the character is exalted and has an exalted feat that they are actually exalted. Make the player work to keep their exalted status. Also, regularly check with the other players that they see the character as being exalted.
Exactly, I never understood why people freaked out over a Monk VoP character, they're so limited in what they can do mechanically, combat-wise, and roleplay wise it's insane. But it makes sense and comes to a fine balance.
Well in my humble opinion, roleplaying restrictions do not balance out mechanical awesomeness. That said, I'm not planning on looking over this character's actions with a fine tooth comb looking for mistakes. I'm looking at this feat from the perspective of 'I don't need money or expensive toys just because I'm a decent guy/gal and would rather help others out with my cash.'
As far as I'm concerned, the Book of Exalted Deeds seems to be heavily tilted towards the "Good >>> Evil" ideal, so I warned this player that there is a good chance of me denying or editing any given character option from this book.
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Well in my humble opinion, roleplaying restrictions do not balance out mechanical awesomeness.
Is the fact that if you lose Exalted status then you lose the feats a mechanical restriction though? Yes, you can only have Exalted status by roleplaying it appropriately but it's still a mechanical restriction in the same way that alignment restrictions stop some class abilities (e.g. lawful barbarians can't rage.)
One more bit of randomness- If you are running BoED for PCs, make sure to use BoVD (Vile Darkness) for your bad guys. They are really designed to balance each other. And yes, the Good > Evil paradigm is in effect. Make sure to have the player WRITE DOWN thier code, somewhat like a paladin, and recommend they purchase a phylactery of faithfulness (1000 GP, DMG) which will tell them if they are about to break thier code. Helps when they decide to torture an evil doer, and the DM calls them on it, and gives the player a "warning" with out the DM saying "are you sure you want to do that?"
Is the fact that if you lose Exalted status then you lose the feats a mechanical restriction though? Yes, you can only have Exalted status by roleplaying it appropriately but it's still a mechanical restriction in the same way that alignment restrictions stop some class abilities (e.g. lawful barbarians can't rage.)
At higher levels about the time you attack your players with flying creatures and enemies often. V.O.P. is a huge hindrance when your spellcasters can not afford to waste time and slots casting fly spells on you, you are in a world of trouble.
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Is the fact that if you lose Exalted status then you lose the feats a mechanical restriction though?No, because your Exalted status is 100% up to the DM's interpretation.
If the DM wants you to lose Exalted status, you're going to lose it.
If the DM wants to look the other way while your Exalted character murders babies, you're going to stay Exalted.
One could argue that only a stupid or incompetent DM would do something like that, but that does not change the fact that Exalted = role-playing "restriction" = interpretation. Not game mechanic.
I'm not convinced that there is a real distinction between roleplaying restrictions and mechanical restrictions to be honest. There are clear rules about paladin codes, etc and many mechanics that require some interpretation by the DM.
And yes, the DM could ignore the notion of Exalted status, just as they could ignore the rule that a natural 20 roll always hits. If your DM doesn't want you to hit somebody then they are going to stay unhit.
Having to remain Exalted (in the eyes of the DM) is a balancing element for the feat (and just about everything else in the Book of Exalted Deeds). There are other feats which have alignment requirements yet they are not seen as problematic.
I guess that the vow of poverty is seen as problematic because some of it's mechanic is seen as dependent on roleplaying. Yet it is odd that playing a paladin character isn't seen as being unbalanced despite having a code of conduct and alignment roleplaying restrictions thta could be disregarded by the DM.
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Is the fact that if you lose Exalted status then you lose the feats a mechanical restriction though?No, because your Exalted status is 100% up to the DM's interpretation.
If the DM wants you to lose Exalted status, you're going to lose it.
If the DM wants to look the other way while your Exalted character murders babies, you're going to stay Exalted.
One could argue that only a stupid or incompetent DM would do something like that, but that does not change the fact that Exalted = role-playing "restriction" = interpretation. Not game mechanic.
I'm not convinced about the distinction between 'roleplaying' and 'menchanical' restrictions. There are plenty of feats and rules that require some DM interpretation and there are clear 'roleplaying' requirements such as a paladin's code and alignment restriction that don't seem to attract the accusations of being unbalanced in the same was as Exalted feats, particulalrly the vow of poverty, do.
I agree that Exalted status needs to be enforced by the GM and if they choose to ignore it then it will radically change the game. Just as a DM could choose to ignore the rule that a natural 20 always hits so that you don't connect and the villain stays unhit.
Maybe a little bit of a silly question, but I'll ask anyways. What book does the VoP stuff come out of. I'm assuming Book of Exaulted Deeds.
Incidentally, I will not be enforcing any class-based alignment restrictions in this game. So, lawful barbarians can rage, non-LG paladins can smite and if this guy roleplays outside of his alignment he'll just become a different type of incarnate.
I just looked up the phylactery of faithfulness, but it does not in fact automatically tell a character if they are about to break their alignment. They must concentrate for a moment (hey DM, can I do...?). Personally, I tell my players up front what I consider to be Good behavior, at the start of the campaign and if a player asks in the middle of it.
Kuthax: You win a prize! It's a brand new...okay, you didn't win a prize. But you are right.
Maybe a little bit of a silly question, but I'll ask anyways. What book does the VoP stuff come out of. I'm assuming Book of Exaulted Deeds.
Yep, it comes out of the Book of Exalted Deeds, sometimes abbreviated as BoED (while its companion, Book of Vile Darkness, is abbreviated as BoVD).
One more bit of randomness- If you are running BoED for PCs, make sure to use BoVD (Vile Darkness) for your bad guys. They are really designed to balance each other. And yes, the Good > Evil paradigm is in effect. Make sure to have the player WRITE DOWN thier code, somewhat like a paladin, and recommend they purchase a phylactery of faithfulness (1000 GP, DMG) which will tell them if they are about to break thier code. Helps when they decide to torture an evil doer, and the DM calls them on it, and gives the player a "warning" with out the DM saying "are you sure you want to do that?"
A character with the VoP can't own that item, right?
Do'h!!! Good call guys :)
Ok, back to asking the DM :)
Thanks to Lich-Loved and Lilith for answering my question. Had to ask because due to bias against 3x that was intially put into me when I tried running I fell back to 2e, thus don't have alot of the expansion books. I have come to a point that I can "deal" with my issues with 3x so long as I don't have to run, but playing is okay. In fact this weekend I plan on continue playing in which I playing a Dwarf Fighter that I plan on going Paladin with, so I'm looking for really good feats to help smite the evil. I do want anything I take be with in character concept though, no taking a feat just cause it gives me this really suped up ability. But if I find 1 or 2 that fit the concept that just happen to really kick ass then so much the worse for my opponents. Anyways with out all the tangent the orginal question stems from wanting to know what books to look at. Which will lead to does anyone know of a good site to be able to look at the books without having to pay. Yes eventually I do plan on buying books because they are much more useful to show the DM and other players than trying to get it off the computer during game play.
I plan on going Paladin with, so I'm looking for really good feats to help smite the evil.
Lots of good Paladin feats around but Vow or Poverty is not one of them - for a Paladin. Naked Paladin = bad idea. Paladins need equipment to be really viable and VoP does not give one money or equipment. Now that said if your in a really role playing heavy game the Paladin with the stick might be a lot of fun but mechanically these two don't mesh well.
Maybe a little bit of a silly question, but I'll ask anyways. What book does the VoP stuff come out of. I'm assuming Book of Exaulted Deeds.Yep, it comes out of the Book of Exalted Deeds, sometimes abbreviated as BoED (while its companion, Book of Vile Darkness, is abbreviated as BoVD).
And here I was thinking BoVD meant "Bonvines of Vermont, Destroy!"
My biggest gripe with it is the concept that a feat should give you more feats. Something about that just rankles me, like it's a violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics or something. Otherwise, one of our STAP players has a Sentinel of Bharrai with with vow of poverty: anything that comes within reach of her paws gets mauled, but she's totally useless for sneaking about Scuttlecove, for example. And the lack of a wand of cure wounds is hurting a lot. Other than the infinite feat generation, it seems fairly well balanced.
My biggest gripe with it is the concept that a feat should give you more feats. Something about that just rankles me, like it's a violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics or something. Otherwise, one of our STAP players has a Sentinel of Bharrai with with vow of poverty: anything that comes within reach of her paws gets mauled, but she's totally useless for sneaking about Scuttlecove, for example. And the lack of a wand of cure wounds is hurting a lot. Other than the infinite feat generation, it seems fairly well balanced.
I think it's a feat because they needed some place to jam it in mechanically. It could have just as easily been a variance considered during character generation. Actually, that would have suited me better.
it is fine as is; no reason to change anything; sheesh the damage resistance is a nice player perk; but, really; doesnt change anything from a gm perspective; a couple points this way or that just doesnt matter and you can always make little adjustments to your game; I recommend that you leave the feat itself alone as the only thing that sort of tinkering seems to do is annoy players for no good reason. This feat has enough drawbacks that come out when playing that nerfing it is just plain cheating the player depending on how much magic is in your game and how much magic the other players have. As for the feats you gain; well, there are only a few that are useful for each class as it is so unless you have multiple classes your not going to have that many to choose from. This vow certainly lends itself to some classes better than others; I would be more agreeable to limiting the classes that could take this feat if anything; for example; I dont think a monk should be allowed to take this feat as they are already getting benefits from their class for nearly the same thing and they really give up very little and the poverty part rarely even comes into play. A disadvantage that is not disadventagous is not a disadvantage, but still, I let monks take it if they wish and have not noticed any imbalance. They are not more or less effective than other players with other builds.
The Gift of Discernment feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun allows you to do the same thing that a phylactery of faithfulness does, so that might be a good feat for an exalted character to take.
Well our first session was Friday, and fun was had by all. The incarnate with VoP was the most effective character in a fight, I'd say, but I think mostly because he's the most experienced player in the group. He didn't complain about my VoP modifications, even printing out a copy himself and bringing it to the game. I'm looking forward to next session, as I will have the chance to scare...I mean, ugh, challenge the group separately after they split up into two groups at the end of Friday's session.
Creative Director
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The thing that I personally don't like about Vow of Poverty isn't the fact that it's Overpowered (It is, because it balances crunch bonuses with flavor penalties, but that's another post), but because you essentially stop playing D&D once you take it.
I mean, face it. At its core, D&D is about killing things and taking their stuff. With vow of poverty, you can't take their stuff. You're basically losing out on one of the most interesting parts of the game; being able to customize and evolve your character's powers by using magic items. Sure, the Vow gives you a lot of benefits to replace this loss of power, but it's a static list. It doesn't allow any flexibility or creativity or chances to do something weird or off the wall.
Worse... it kind of robs the OTHER players of this fun, since technically, to keep things balanced, you should probably be taking your share of the treasure and donating it to the needy or something. While at that point the other players might still be in line with what treasures they deserve, the perception is that the vow of poverty character is "stealing" their loot. And if the poverty character instead just abstains from his share, suddenly the other characters have WAY more treasure than they should. So the GM reduces the amount of treasure monsters and NPCs have, which in turn makes them weaker (remember; the VOP character still has all the benefits of all that treasure anyway, so it's not like reducing treasure reduces the party's power at all), which makes them easier to defeat, which makes gathering their treasure easier.
Yuck.
Basically, the game isn't built to accommodate vow of poverty, in the same way that the vow of peace doesn't mesh well with the game. In my opinion, it only really works if everyone in the party has a vow of poverty.
I think it's a feat because they needed some place to jam it in mechanically. It could have just as easily been a variance considered during character generation. Actually, that would have suited me better.
Ooh, I like that idea! I think that I'll use something like VoP as a non-treasure variant for my Fantasia game, for the rare groups that would rather not bother with loot. Ah, the possibilities...
PS JJ: I can imagine a less mature group of players, or an evil group of PCs being rped to feel like they're being cheated out of loot by the VoP player. I have trouble imagining such feelings evolving in other groups though...maybe I'm just naive. I don't agree that you essentially stop playing D&D when VoP is introduced. Loot is an important part of the game, and I don't know many people that have ever considered VoP, but the game has enough elements other than 'kill and loot' to reamain D&D without the loot part of the equation.
The thing that I personally don't like about Vow of Poverty isn't the fact that it's Overpowered (It is, because it balances crunch bonuses with flavor penalties, but that's another post), but because you essentially stop playing D&D once you take it.
I mean, face it. At its core, D&D is about killing things and taking their stuff. With vow of poverty, you can't take their stuff. You're basically losing out on one of the most interesting parts of the game; being able to customize and evolve your character's powers by using magic items. Sure, the Vow gives you a lot of benefits to replace this loss of power, but it's a static list. It doesn't allow any flexibility or creativity or chances to do something weird or off the wall.
Worse... it kind of robs the OTHER players of this fun, since technically, to keep things balanced, you should probably be taking your share of the treasure and donating it to the needy or something. While at that point the other players might still be in line with what treasures they deserve, the perception is that the vow of poverty character is "stealing" their loot. And if the poverty character instead just abstains from his share, suddenly the other characters have WAY more treasure than they should. So the GM reduces the amount of treasure monsters and NPCs have, which in turn makes them weaker (remember; the VOP character still has all the benefits of all that treasure anyway, so it's not like reducing treasure reduces the party's power at all), which makes them easier to defeat, which makes gathering their treasure easier.
Yuck.
Basically, the game isn't built to accommodate vow of poverty, in the same way that the vow of peace doesn't mesh well with the game. In my opinion, it only really works if everyone in the party has a vow of poverty.
Those are some interesting perspectives, and ones I'm inclined to agree with. Really, I don't think highly of the BoED (and only slightly more highly of the BoVD); not only do I disagree with some of the things they call "good" in my personal beliefs, I don't necessarily believe that they have a good place in D&D, either.
Now that there's both Fiendish Codices, I'd just as soon forget both the BoED and BoVD exist at all.
Worse... it kind of robs the OTHER players of this fun, since technically, to keep things balanced, you should probably be taking your share of the treasure and donating it to the needy or something. While at that point the other players might still be in line with what treasures they deserve, the perception is that the vow of poverty character is "stealing" their loot. And if the poverty character instead just abstains from his share, suddenly the other characters have WAY more treasure than they should. So the GM reduces the amount of treasure monsters and NPCs have, which in turn makes them weaker (remember; the VOP character still has all the benefits of all that treasure anyway, so it's not like reducing treasure reduces the party's power at all), which makes them easier to defeat, which makes gathering their treasure easier.
The DM really has little choice but to reduce that amount of treasure the characters get by 1 share.
If its just a matter of the VoP player taking his share and giving it to poor people then the players can easily make that a minimial problem. Designate 80% (or some other high percentage) of all treasure as 'party treasure'. This way the players are loosing only 1 share of 20% of the treasure but in reality their keeping almost everything.
If the DM is hard nosed about this and simply skims 1 share off the top that will work. Howver the other players are going to loose out in this case. Most parties have some kind of a 'party pool' to cover things like healing and what not. The VoP player does not contribute to this pool but he or she still makes use of it along with the rest of the players. So he is actually stealing money from them - or more accuratly he is using the commons without contributing to the commons.
If its just a matter of the VoP player taking his share and giving it to poor people then the players can easily make that a minimial problem. Designate 80% (or some other high percentage) of all treasure as 'party treasure'. This way the players are loosing only 1 share of 20% of the treasure but in reality their keeping almost everything.
I would be very amused if a group of players tried this. "You're designating 80% of your loot as 'party treasure'? Well, in that case I'm designating 80% of treasure stashes as 'previously looted'."
Most parties have some kind of a 'party pool' to cover things like healing and what not. The VoP player does not contribute to this pool but he or she still makes use of it along with the rest of the players. So he is actually stealing money from them - or more accuratly he is using the commons without contributing to the commons.
That's a valid argument, even if the VoP player's non-contribution is of negligible consequence. Maybe I'll end up letting the VoP player to give a few gold to the party cash for healing staves and resurrection diamonds. After all, he can't help the poor if he's dead.
That's a valid argument, even if the VoP player's non-contribution is of negligible consequence. Maybe I'll end up letting the VoP player to give a few gold to the party cash for healing staves and resurrection diamonds. After all, he can't help the poor if he's dead.
Just keep in mind that whatever he contributes is essentially bonus treasure not accounted for in the wealth by level guidlines. He already got his treasure in the form the benifits of VoP. Also keep your eyes peeled for things like 'party' wands of of fly - such items might be carried by someone else but they are more useful to the VoP player then they are to everyone else.
Never EVER let him use polymorph if you allow VoP, it WILL break your game and you WILL have a huge gap in power levels between characters. This is because most of the bonuses that he attains through VoP will still function under polymorph because unlike shapechange, you do not lose your extraordinary and supernatural abilities while polymorphed. This is the biggest advantage of VoP because normally your equipment would stop functioning, however since this is a feat, it still works perfectly well. So unless you want to be trying to break a 50 or 60 AC at 15th level, do NOT allow him to use polymorph with this feat!!!! I know this from playing a VoP monk/sorceror/enlightened fist, after I attained polymorph the combat became extremely boring because it was no longer challenging, there also became a rift between my character and the party because they felt they were no longer useful in combat. Furthermore, a well played VoP character is not going to function remarkably well in any party that is not an entirely exalted party. You may say that this is a good chance for RPing.... well maybe.... in my experience my character got so incredibly aggravated with the party for constantly killing intelligent beings (not a good act by the BoED standards) that he ended up having to leave the adventuring group, at which point the DM then stated that my character wandered off and died on his way back home, at which point I left the gaming group and campaign all together. So, since you seem to not know everyone in the gaming group very well, this is an extreme option for a character to use, not only in power, but in roleplaying as well. Generally I would not suggest letting someone play a character that has this much potential to create conflict in the party when you do not know how the people playing in your game are going to behave together.