These are actually more optimistic responses than I thought I'd get. I pretty much assume that we will never see a peep from the world Greyhawk ever again, unless its sold to a third party, and since they covet the names Pelor, Vecna, Mordenkainen, etc., I don't think that will ever happen, ever.
5th edition maybe?
I pretty much assume that we will never see a peep from the world Greyhawk ever again...
Unfortunately, that's where I'd put my money :|
As far as official support. It lives on with fans...
Perhaps things will improve for Greyhawk when 5th edition comes out. I'd like to go back to getting some older game designers involved. I think we are really losing something with younger and younger game designers. Not an indication that all ideas are bad simply because of age, but I think a balance of age and play styles would be better for the overall designing of any fothcoming D&D edition.
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Check this out, I swear its like freakin magic:
Light seeps into your room from the window. You swing your feet to the floor down from your bed, you stand and walk to the window. You pear outside and look down upon Greyhawk City. You pull your chair to the window and smile at thh sunrise.
I DONT EVEN HAVE THE 4TH ED BOOKS! And I just started a scene in Greyhawk. It's freakin magic I swear. I have personally brought Greyhawk to 4th edition.
I hope this brings joy to all the world fans.
Sincerly,
GOD
(Gaming Operation Director)
WotC will never take my Sea of Dust away from me.
Never.
I spit lightning on the fourth edition.
But... Is it really official?
(I feel like we've had this conversation at least five times now.)
But... Is it really official?
(I feel like we've had this conversation at least five times now.)
On Canonfire you can find tons of fan produced articles on almost any topic. Since the material is written by fans it usually picks up where "official" leaves off or is "unofficial" but strictly written for the World of Greyhawk and goes into uncharted teritory for that world. I would suggest visiting the sights that may interest you and deciding for yourself. If it was "official" it would be exactly what you already find in a Greyhawk supplement, thus such information goes well beyond that in order to flesh out parts of Greyhawk. If you only want official you need to stick with the things that TSR and WOTC produced which were defined as being in the World of Greyhawk. Bottom line.....it depends upon what your looking for and how you feel about "your version of Greyhawk".
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Beloved Greyhawk... Nay, not the end of Greyhawk, only the end of the concept of "official content." Since WOTC seems to be wontonly throwing away our traditions (such as Greyhawk), perhaps they no longer deserve to be the proprietors of something called "official content" especially after their incoherent display in Worlds and Monsters, and after their destruction of the realms and our game's heritage and the many ways their consumer base has been violated. Consider the following...
I hold in my hands the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and see Erik Mona's name in the design credits along with a special thanks to Lisa Stevens. (Yes. Two of our favorite people, credible designers, great stewards of our game.) Oh, and what a small world (no pun intended)——look, there's Richard Baker's name as the creative director and I'll bet there are others who still work at WOTC. It would seem about eight years ago there were a bunch of great guys and gals who honored the games 30+ years of history when writing third edition and the various supplements etc.
So what happened? Only those who were there truly know, but my guess is the B-string got left behind and the very talented went on to other prosperous careers - like Erik who is a top shelf publisher, Monte Cook of the Malhavoc Press fame, and Lisa who is PAIZO's CEO.
I've seen the 13 slams written about 3.5 from Mike Mearls, and I'm familiar enough with the putdowns about 3.5 from names like Baker, Collins, Noonan, Perkins, etc. who work for WOTC. As Eric Mona explained in his post last fall (4.0 PAIZO IS STILL UNDECIDED), perhaps WOTC now fears competetion from their own game...3.5!
So, I believe the millions of gamers who love dungeons and dragons may already realize that we're getting the same (or better) quality dungeons and dragons material from PAIZO than the poor design hinted at in Races & Worlds marketing materials. We don't need a copyrighted game name to know good quality materials.
Because Erik Mona was Greyhawk's champion, we feel its sad that Greyhawk is not "allowed" to "officially" continue. I agree that its a shame that WOTC can just pull the plug on a setting that deserves to continue (and is desired by many consumers) and has remained through the years close to the traditions of dungeons and dragons.
But this can happen tonight: When we wake up tomorrow, we can all say, "We like PAIZO, and to hell with the concept of "official content."
Does that bring Greyhawk back? ...not yet.
What does that buy us? ...our freedom from the ringlords over at wizards who shamelessly seem to covet a monopoly over this genre, over the entire dungeons and dragons franchise! If we no longer buy-in to the idea of "official content" then PAIZO, and TROLL LORD GAMES, and NECROMANCER GAMES, etc. are suddenly on EQUAL footing with Wizards (who seem to be driving our game into the dirt!) Again, just glance at Worlds and Monsters and you'll see how they have "reconcepted" everything until it is a distinctive departure from the game we have enjoyed throughout the previous editions.
Again, saying "to hell with the idea of official content," makes PAIZO the true stewards of our game. Just look at Pathfinder 1-4 or Gamemastery modules TC1, D0, D1, E1, J1, W1, D2, U1 or J2 and we see the same quality (if not better) than WOTC has ever done.
I say to those who enjoyed Greyhawk—keep playing it! Be free of the shackles of WOTC. I say to those who appreciate the Gamemastery line- This IS dungeons and dragons. WOTC may own a copyrighted game name, but they don't own dungeons and dragons any more than the NFL owns football. And for them to cut off Greyhawk and abandon it, just like they've destroyed the realms—————IS MEANINGLESS as long as you no longer give WOTC any attention. If you believe they're through as our game leaders, then we can be liberated to buy OGL materials that are 3.5 and adapt them into any traditional dungeons and dragons setting we choose: our own homebrew, Mystara, Duchy of Karameikos, and indeed Greyhawk! In this way Greyhawk lives on.
For those who may not have noticed it yet, I perceive 4E (and the subsequent versions that will follow) to be a massive "legal" conspiracy to rein-in 3rd party publishers. And, boy does this suspicion grow every day...
Long Live Greyhawk! Long Live 15th Century Realms!
Three-Point-Five Never Dies!
Three Cheers for Eric Mona and Lisa Stevens—the proposed new stewards of our game!
-LONG LIVE 3P-
Beloved Greyhawk... Nay, not the end of Greyhawk, only the end of the concept of "official content." Since WOTC seems to be wontonly throwing away our traditions (such as Greyhawk), perhaps they no longer deserve to be the proprietors of something called "official content" especially after their incoherent display in Worlds and Monsters, and after their destruction of the realms and our game's heritage and the many ways their consumer base has been violated. Consider the following...
Good Post my friend! The only power they have is that what we give them! I for one, stopped giving them the power and my money. WOTC doesn't want to follow through, one goes elsewhere.
Pax, my sword and fealty is yours if you'll have me!
Great post!
The future of D&D is right here on this website and various others - it's time for revolution! Rise up indy publishers! Rise up and conquer!
-g-
I'm all for supporting Paizo, and any other company that produces great material. But that doesn't bring Greyhawk back.
I'm glad that there are other people passionate about Greyhawk out there, but I have to say that I've never really been that into Canonfire, etc. As I've said before, Greyhawk is what D and D is to me, and in my mind you can't have one without the other.
Sorry for being a downer.
I'm all for supporting Paizo, and any other company that produces great material. But that doesn't bring Greyhawk back.
Actually, Paizo made me feel that Greyhawk was alive and well again, and as well-supported as ever.
Before the dark times. Before DDI.
As I've said before, Greyhawk is what D&D is to me, and in my mind you can't have one without the other. Sorry for being a downer.
Not a downer to me -- you're my hero :)
I whole-heartedly agree with you concerning Paizo's Greyhawk revival. But that was official D and D material, and that is no longer the state of things.
Also, I make a rather sad and melancholy hero, but thanks for the support.
From what I can remember, to a certain extent it has. There was a big story arc in which the PCs had to stop a plot of Rary the Traitor, for instance, and the metaregion system allowed adventure authors to delve into national poliitcs (for instance California and other areas in the Nyrond metaregion were treated to a series of adventures where we literally had to counter-coup against Prince Sewarndt, who had usurped King Lynwerd's spot on the throne of Nyrond). Other favored baddies like the Scarlet Brotherhood appear as well (one adventure I recall fondly had me playing an Oerdian fighter in an otherwise all-Suel party. We'd come across a group of Olman slaves held by the Brotherhood, and I almost literally had to threaten the rest of the party to get them to go along with freeing the slaves. He ended up abjectly hating all Suels by the end of the adventure!) Now, early adventures are more generic, but as the player evolves, they go deeper into the flavor of Greyhawk.
How has the "Living Greyhawk" RPGA campaign contributed to the Greyhawk mythos? Has it been high-quality? Has it been specific to Greyhawk, or kinda generic with famous names tagged on? Has it advanced any of the ongoing Greyhawk plots or tensions?
I haven't played any of it, but from what I have picked up on the internet is that some modules were great others poor (about what one would expect). I guess they made some significant changes (I'm thinking Tenh) that got some folks up in arms. So, kinda a mixed bag I think.
I appreciate what Canonfire! does, and is, but for me all of the material that is not official can be wiped out by whoever owns the license to GH by merely updating the world without regard to the contributions of people who should probably own the license. Imagine if Greyhawk got the 4th edition treatment that Forgotten Realm did (spell plague, death of major gods, serious time lapse.) It could happen at any time, though I hope that it doesn't.
When the inevitable 4th edition TOEE comes out, what do I consider it? Where does it take place? Is it an updated version of the classic module, or does it warp the original one beyond recognition? Sure, I can just ignore it, but "officially" that is the TOEE. I'm not saying its right. In fact, I'm saying its a down right crime that GH has been pillaged for its doodads merely because the designers of 4th apparently couldn't envision their own modules, gods, items, etc. But that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. To ignore it means that I am gaming in some sort of "alternate reality" GH in which the changes of 4th edition never happened. And, since D and D and GH are one and the same to me, GH must exist in 4th edition, even if its in a twisted and ruined version of its former glory. As far as I'm concerned, Points of Light is Greyhawk. Its just a Greyhawk that we no longer recognize, and that some of us hate. Others are bound to love it. Only time will tell.
When the inevitable 4th edition TOEE comes out
Oh, heaven forbid!
I appreciate what Canonfire! does, and is, but for me all of the material that is not official can be wiped out by whoever owns the license to GH by merely updating the world without regard to the contributions of people who should probably own the license. ... When the inevitable 4th edition TOEE comes out, what do I consider it?
Whatever you want to. I don't mean to sound snide, but you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Wizards (or TSR before them) necessarily have to dictate how you -- yes, you -- play D&D (or OD&D, or AD&D or BD&D or whatever). You're giving them a lot more power than they deserve. Even, IIRC, Gary Gygax expected and even flat-out encouraged players to take his modules and stretch them to within an inch of their lives to fit their personal campaigns, and not shoehorned into necessarily what Gygax et alia wrote. AFAIC, D&D isn't a game for slavish devotion to canon, and there's no way, with thousands upon thouseands of DMs across the globe, to even try to enforce uniformity. No WoTC death squad is going to come in black suits and a salamander car and burn your house down because you decided that in 570 Robilar failed to solve the River of Blood Murders or some other violation of official canon. In the FR, I'm sure that Ed Greenwood is not losing sleep if some DM somewhere lets his players kill Elminster and take over Cormyr.
My suggestion is with any 4E changes, take what you like, discard the rest and backfill from older edition sources the stuf you can't do without. And liberally make stuff up to suit your own campaign. It's your world, dang it -- enjoy it! :)
Imagine if Greyhawk got the 4th edition treatment that Forgotten Realm did (spell plague, death of major gods, serious time lapse.).
Thoughts like that make baby Vecna cry. :))
See, one of the things I pride my Greyhawk campaign on is its close conformity to the established canon of Greyhawk, and putting my PC's close the the action of the rich history of the world. So if a player of mine reads fluff material from the Gazetteer he can say, hey, I remember that, we were part of the forces that broke that siege, etc...
Once I start making up my own events, timelines, etc, I might as well just make up my own world: One that WOTC doesn't own. And, perhaps, I'll end up doing that. But still, creating my own world, or creating an "alternate reality" version of Greyhawk doesn't bring back the setting in my eyes. There won't be any new events in that world until they keep the timeline rolling.
I'll say it again: I think the fine custodians of Paizo should have been allowed to continue producing material that enriched this incredible world, and advancing the stories within it that have been going on since the beginning of D and D.
But they weren't, and I will have a hard time forgiving WOTC for that.
I think the fine custodians of Paizo should have been allowed to continue producing material that enriched this incredible world, and advancing the stories within it that have been going on since the beginning of D and D.... But they weren't, and I will have a hard time forgiving WOTC for that.
Agreed. They've wiped away the cradle of D&D because there's no profit in it -- and they'll be damned if anyone else is allowed to profit from GH. Never mind that successful campaigns require rulebooks to support them.
For simple-minded WotC executives, that means people buy books when they play the game.
Sure, they can do anything they want with GH, but it's disturbing on a number of levels.
Agreed. They've wiped away the cradle of D&D because there's no profit in it -- and they'll be damned if anyone else is allowed to profit from GH. Never mind that successful campaigns require rulebooks to support them.
Huh?!? No profit in it? Was Paizo losing money all those years they were publishing GH stories in Dungeon? Heck, I just laid down serious bucks for The Shackled City hardback...and it was worth every cent. How about Expedition to GH Ruins? Did that flop? Last I checked, RPGA adopted it for a world tournament. Actually, I have no idea why regime after regime treats GH as a second-class campaign world since Gary Gygax [praise his name] was de-throned.
As soon as I win the lottery, I'm going to buy the rights for D&D from Hasbro (I'll probably be able to buy it at bargain rates about a year from now), start a new company, put GG in charge, and we'll go back to giving the customers what they want.
Huh?!? No profit in it? Was Paizo losing money all those years they were publishing GH stories in Dungeon?...
It's mystified people for years.
Actually, my theory is that the real money from D&D is from spinoffs -- mainly fiction and miniatures. GH generates neither.
As soon as I win the lottery, I'm going to buy the rights for D&D from Hasbro (I'll probably be able to buy it at bargain rates about a year from now), start a new company, put GG in charge, and we'll go back to giving the customers what they want.
I know you're joking, but Hasbro has a history of holding onto property rather than letting someone else profit.
So don't get your hopes up :/
When the inevitable 4th edition TOEE comes outOh, heaven forbid!
Sorry, but the plans are already made.
^According to Lord of Grumpiness you don't know what the hell your talking about. Not my words.. his. Don't you GreyHawk, GreyHawk
I'm gonna Bungle every last bit of Poon in here! GreeeeeeeeeeeyHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawk! Lord of Grumpiness emailed me: " Greyhawk WILL be on the Wii in '09!"
why does he say such things?
And this, children, is why we don't allow our parents to drink and post...
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Perhaps things will improve for Greyhawk when 5th edition comes out. I'd like to go back to getting some older game designers involved. I think we are really losing something with younger and younger game designers. Not an indication that all ideas are bad simply because of age, but I think a balance of age and play styles would be better for the overall designing of any fothcoming D&D edition.
It really looks like the software model to me. Thye bring in the new kids with the hot ideas, work them at relatively low wages for about 6-10 years mining them out for all their ideas, and then pitch them to the curve in favor of the next wave of kids. Look at what hapened to Monte and crew between 3.0-3.5....
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You guys should be happy they're not trying to make a 4E Greyhawk. They're turning the Forgotten Realms into Eberron-lite for 4E.
They're literally killing all the hallmarks of Forgotten Realms hoping to attract Eberron fans over to the Realms so that they can get Eberron fandom and Drizzt under 1 title.
Wizard's 4E theme is keep it simple so new authors and designers don't have to do research or be familiar with the setting they're supposed to be writing for.
I have to add that Living Greyhawk is pretty close to as "official" as you can get for products and material created during the 3.0 and 3.5 eras. I loved many of them, as they had some very well-written sweeping plotlines and stories. They also tried very hard to make use of previously established continuity and material, particularly in regards to NPC's and places. As a longtime RPGA member I saved all the LG modules I ran and played in my personal e-library, and I was lucky enough to also connect with people to gather an archive of over 650 of the RPGA LG modules and publications released since the campaign started. I plan on using them to keep Greyhawk alive and well in my own gaming groups and for many years worth of additional gaming. I know that some folks have begun torrent-ing similar Living Greyhawk archives, though the legality of releasing copies of RPGA modules is sort of grey. After all, RPGA isn't enforcing the material copyright, but still... Since I obtained all my copies as a member of the organization, I am happy that I have an archive that I can continue to use and share with my players. :-)
Beloved Greyhawk... Nay, not the end of Greyhawk, only the end of the concept of "official content." Since WOTC seems to be wontonly throwing away our traditions (such as Greyhawk), perhaps they no longer deserve to be the proprietors of something called "official content" especially after their incoherent display in Worlds and Monsters, and after their destruction of the realms and our game's heritage and the many ways their consumer base has been violated. Consider the following...
I hold in my hands the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and see Erik Mona's name in the design credits along with a special thanks to Lisa Stevens. (Yes. Two of our favorite people, credible designers, great stewards of our game.) Oh, and what a small world (no pun intended)——look, there's Richard Baker's name as the creative director and I'll bet there are others who still work at WOTC. It would seem about eight years ago there were a bunch of great guys and gals who honored the games 30+ years of history when writing third edition and the various supplements etc.
So what happened? Only those who were there truly know, but my guess is the B-string got left behind and the very talented went on to other prosperous careers - like Erik who is a top shelf publisher, Monte Cook of the Malhavoc Press fame, and Lisa who is PAIZO's CEO.
I've seen the 13 slams written about 3.5 from Mike Mearls, and I'm familiar enough with the putdowns about 3.5 from names like Baker, Collins, Noonan, Perkins, etc. who work for WOTC. As Eric Mona explained in his post last fall (4.0 PAIZO IS STILL UNDECIDED), perhaps WOTC now fears competetion from their own game...3.5!
So, I believe the millions of gamers who love dungeons and dragons may already realize that we're getting the same (or better) quality dungeons and dragons material from PAIZO than the poor design hinted at in Races & Worlds marketing materials. We don't need a copyrighted game name to know good quality materials.
Because Erik Mona was Greyhawk's champion, we...
I agree. My earlier post mentions a little about how WOTC has been slowly defranchising themselves away from original D&D gaming content, such as Greyhawk, even though they used it as a default setting with no development on it. To me that was a great insult to those who hoped for more on that beloved world. "Oh we recognize Greyhawks feats of fan base but we do not respect it enough to centre new material around it." Crap. Yes, the Adventure Paths took place on the Eastern half of Oerik, the Flanaess, but they didn't put it in the forefront of importance. It was WOTC way of distancing themselves away from forefather campaigns by making it easy for newcomers to just pick up the material and play, not worrying about the real history around the adventure. I actually, see the strategy of a company doing such a tactic but it leaves the core fanbase in the dust. Easy to setup and to incorporate it into your own capmaign, or to force the players to come up with new ideas thus throwing out any relations with Greyhak.
I just wish the creators of their worlds would keep their own rights to them so we do not have to see the integrity of them go to the vaults.
WotC still posts Greyhawk material as part of the LG campaign.
And it still supports the LG campaign.
But, LG is seperate from WOTC WOG. While RPGA develops a growing developing community of players who change LG history or story line, WOTC uses the basics of WOG history for when they need it, so it stays static. For example, most of us know specific references to the Flanaess, like Amedio Jungle or the Sea of Dust. But that is it. Everything is left vague unless it directly ties into the adventure at hand. (e.g., Cauldron is located in a southern jungle of the Flanaess. But what jungle is anybody's guess, but fans know what jungle they mean and that was the problem.)
I have used LG as a guide to direct my WOG. But I always wonder what the original writer was thinking when they thought up that adventure. I always go back to the roots, if it makes sense to. I understand that some things were hard to translate from, like Ruins of Greyhawk 1stE to Return to the Ruins of Greyhawk 3.5E. I finished reading the latter (it seemed a bit rushed) and I itch to incorporate some original abstract random, chaoticness, into it. Some day I will. I just remember the oddness how a lot of 1stE was. But I believe that is what the charm about D&D is. Wonder and amazingment.
See, one of the things I pride my Greyhawk campaign on is its close conformity to the established canon of Greyhawk, and putting my PC's close the the action of the rich history of the world. So if a player of mine reads fluff material from the Gazetteer he can say, hey, I remember that, we were part of the forces that broke that siege, etc...
Once I start making up my own events, timelines, etc, I might as well just make up my own world: One that WOTC doesn't own. And, perhaps, I'll end up doing that. But still, creating my own world, or creating an "alternate reality" version of Greyhawk doesn't bring back the setting in my eyes. There won't be any new events in that world until they keep the timeline rolling.
I'll say it again: I think the fine custodians of Paizo should have been allowed to continue producing material that enriched this incredible world, and advancing the stories within it that have been going on since the beginning of D and D.
But they weren't, and I will have a hard time forgiving WOTC for that.
Here, here!
Sorry, but the plans are already made.When the inevitable 4th edition TOEE comes outOh, heaven forbid!
1stE for TOEE? Interesting. Expanding or "Returning to..."
I appreciate what Canonfire! does, and is, but for me all of the material that is not official can be wiped out by whoever owns the license to GH by merely updating the world without regard to the contributions of people who should probably own the license. ... When the inevitable 4th edition TOEE comes out, what do I consider it?Whatever you want to. I don't mean to sound snide, but you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Wizards (or TSR before them) necessarily have to dictate how you -- yes, you -- play D&D (or OD&D, or AD&D or BD&D or whatever). You're giving them a lot more power than they deserve. Even, IIRC, Gary Gygax expected and even flat-out encouraged players to take his modules and stretch them to within an inch of their lives to fit their personal campaigns, and not shoehorned into necessarily what Gygax et alia wrote. AFAIC, D&D isn't a game for slavish devotion to canon, and there's no way, with thousands upon thouseands of DMs across the globe, to even try to enforce uniformity. No WoTC death squad is going to come in black suits and a salamander car and burn your house down because you decided that in 570 Robilar failed to solve the River of Blood Murders or some other violation of official canon. In the FR, I'm sure that Ed Greenwood is not losing sleep if some DM somewhere lets his players kill Elminster and take over Cormyr.
My suggestion is with any 4E changes, take what you like, discard the rest and backfill from older edition sources the stuf you can't do without. And liberally make stuff up to suit your own campaign. It's your world, dang it -- enjoy it! :)
Imagine if Greyhawk got the 4th edition treatment that Forgotten Realm did (spell plague, death of major gods, serious time lapse.).Thoughts like that make baby Vecna cry. :))
Actually mine does. I have been trying to come up with a feasible way of seperating magic from divinity and the death of Boccub does it for me! But he really doesn't die, he expells his conrol over magic thus energizing all of the oblisks on/in Oerth, enabling the freedom of magic; magic should be weilded by all who can weild it. Boccub doesn't really care becasue he is "The Uncaring" and the most powerful spellcaster ever (Greyhawk Crystal Sphere only) along with his apprentice, Zagyg, Vecna, Iuz, Igglwilv, Mordenkainen... All magic become ley-lines that gets obsorbed by Beory, The Earth Mother (earth is the material that encapsulates Oerth). She uses it to expell outsiders gaining control on the use of elemental magic. The oblisques become focus points of magic, similiar to Planescapes. And speaking of the Lady of Pain, she is the epitome of magic. Why have more than one who can rule over magic (She can keep gods powers at bay!) when she is the progenitor of it...
Agreed. They've wiped away the cradle of D&D because there's no profit in it -- and they'll be damned if anyone else is allowed to profit from GH. Never mind that successful campaigns require rulebooks to support them.Huh?!? No profit in it? Was Paizo losing money all those years they were publishing GH stories in Dungeon? Heck, I just laid down serious bucks for The Shackled City hardback...and it was worth every cent. How about Expedition to GH Ruins? Did that flop? Last I checked, RPGA adopted it for a world tournament. Actually, I have no idea why regime after regime treats GH as a second-class campaign world since Gary Gygax [praise his name] was de-throned.
As soon as I win the lottery, I'm going to buy the rights for D&D from Hasbro (I'll probably be able to buy it at bargain rates about a year from now), start a new company, put GG in charge, and we'll go back to giving the customers what they want.
Yeah thats the spunk!
I have met Gary Gygax and it is about time someone takes his mantle of creative ideas (Or Dave Arneson) and stay true to them. He has so many untold, unfinished story plots that it freaks me out. He even gave away the secret of the Elder Elemtal Eye that it wasn't his idea! He implied another source of evil. I think it was to do woth a Lovecraft generated creation? Like what is going on in his head? Does he even have an end to his thoughts?
In fact, I believe the "Gord the Rogue" novels explained the vision of Mr. Gygax's own ending to his campaign world. [He left T.S.R. in 1995, and began his novels after leaving the copmpany.] In retrospect, unless you follow Dave Arnesons Blackmoor setting (why, it is not a campaign), anything published after Mr. Gygax's leaving of T.S.R. is "NOT" canon of the WOG. In respect to Skip Williams, Carl Sargent, Roger Moore, David Cook, Monte Cook, Douglas Niles, James Jacobs, and of course, Erik Mona, there aren't too many writer's to step up and fill their place in prolonging the WOG. Especially when they are envisioning somebody elses vision. We are just going to have to do with the superb work of said writers and deal with what ever comes froms "Beyond The Looking Glass!"
Keep the dream alive by gaming on!!!
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I find it amusing so many people get so upset about the death of Greyhawk. So what?
My own favorite setting, Mystara, "died" years ago. The fans of the world have kept it alive and growing ever since. Same thing will happen with Greyhawk, if and when it dies.
Absolutely nothing is stopping anyone from running their game in Greyhawk, whether it is 4E, 5E or even 6E when they come.
The world is not about the rule set, it is all about the fluff, the STORY, and that can be used in any rules, and at any time. Anyone can take a basic adventure, set in Mystara, and convert the story to 4E and Greyhawk if they want.
What matters is the story. If WOTC stops supporting Greyhawk, does that mean the story stops? Does that mean no one will ever have an idea for Greyhawk again?
Or does it mean that the fans take it over, the loyal, passionate fanatics of the world, who hold it more dear to their hearts than even TSR or WOTC did? Does it mean that the people most dedicated to the world will share their passion for free on the web, just like all the other so-called dead worlds?
"Official" support doesn't mean anything. Greyhawk will die only when the last fan of the setting ascends. There is nothing to fear, unless you don't want Greyhawk to become even better and more passionate.
I find it amusing so many people get so upset about the death of Greyhawk. So what?
My own favorite setting, Mystara, "died" years ago. The fans of the world have kept it alive and growing ever since. Same thing will happen with Greyhawk, if and when it dies.
Absolutely nothing is stopping anyone from running their game in Greyhawk, whether it is 4E, 5E or even 6E when they come.
The world is not about the rule set, it is all about the fluff, the STORY, and that can be used in any rules, and at any time. Anyone can take a basic adventure, set in Mystara, and convert the story to 4E and Greyhawk if they want.
What matters is the story. If WOTC stops supporting Greyhawk, does that mean the story stops? Does that mean no one will ever have an idea for Greyhawk again?
Or does it mean that the fans take it over, the loyal, passionate fanatics of the world, who hold it more dear to their hearts than even TSR or WOTC did? Does it mean that the people most dedicated to the world will share their passion for free on the web, just like all the other so-called dead worlds?
"Official" support doesn't mean anything. Greyhawk will die only when the last fan of the setting ascends. There is nothing to fear, unless you don't want Greyhawk to become even better and more passionate.
I have said it better, but not as short and precise as yours. Cheers!
May the Celestials preside over Gary Gygax's canonization for the Saints Hall of Fame.
Your right - Greyhawk won't die, but and this is a big but the 4.0 rulesset does not support Greyhawk. It is completely alien. It's like asking people to play ice hockey with a basketball and baseball bats... Troll, Troll, Troll
I love trolls :)
And I agree. 4/e doesn't just fail to support GH -- it makes GH hard to play.
And FR also, unless you buy into their new campaign they've decided to call Forgotten Realms. I could call my home NYC -- but there still won't be an Empire State Building here :/
I just repeat myself from this thread:
Q: How did Ruins of Greyhawk do?A: Did well, don’t have exact numbers. Greyhawk is still on the table as a campaign setting.
I´m not decided if Greyhawk as a 4e setting would be a good thing or a bad thing. Still, if they actually decide to publish GH under 4e, I will probably buy it.
(They should publish it and stay true to the setting to honor Gary Gygax IMHO)
Stefan
So HOW do I set up a subscription for the remaining months then?? I want to get the last few issues while I still can but I can't find any where to renew a subscription!!!
Err... I assume you know that the mags are not printed any longer? So there is no way to renew a sub anymore. If you are missing any issues, try your luck at the paizo.com store, and get them while they last - they are worth it.
Stefan
For those interested, Oerth Journal #23 is finally out. It's a Maure Castle special.
For those interested, Oerth Journal #23 is finally out. It's a Maure Castle special.
Awesome. Thanks for the tip!
For those interested, Oerth Journal #23 is finally out. It's a Maure Castle special.Awesome. Thanks for the tip!
Your welcome!