I suppose it had to happen eventually. It is sad to hear, however. Dragon has been an indispensable asset for my group for the last couple of years, and Dungeons APs have been amazing. I’ll give Pathfinder a shot. And if I don’t like it, well, I’ve got plenty of adventures in past issues that I haven’t run yet. Or, I could just go back and do it the old fashion way – write them myself. I’ll admit that I’ve gotten a little spoiled on the excellent stories and the PDF supplements. I used to write fairly good multi-plot stories and a pretty good artist. These two fantastic magazines have been like candy sticking to my teeth.
All-in-all, I don’t think it will be much different. WotC has already started a Sage Advice online column, and they put out supplemental information every day. We all check it on an almost daily basis. WotC will still have their hard product available for purchase and there will still be message boards where we can discuss and share ideas.
I do hope that all of the back issues will be available. If not, I better get all I can now and start writing.
Wow! It’s the end of an era. But all good things must end, right. There was a song that said, “every new beginning came from some other beging’s end”. I was around for issue #1 of both magazines, and I’ll be here for the last. Raise an ale and sing a song to the books of bards and welcome the winds of change.
I'm shocked. I'm stunned. I'm ANGRY.
And here I thought what they did to E-Tools was bad!
A world without Dragon magazine is barely comprehensible. It's like having one of your school buddies die.
I'm depressed now. :(
-The Gneech
WotC has just shot itself in the foot. Any interest I ever had in a 4th edition has been squashed. A pox on them.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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We will continue to sell them while supplies last (which may take years for some issues).I do hope that all of the back issues will be available. If not, I better get all I can now and start writing.
Will you still have the license to sell back issues in pdfs format for which no print copies are available?
I don't know how much more bad news I can take for one day. First, we learn of the passing of Tom Moldvay, and then I learn of the passing of my two favorite periodicals. And even though I don't play or care for d20, I still got some use out of Dragon and Dungeon because they could always be converted. Any more great news for today? :(
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I'm actually crying right now.
Why did WotC do this? I'm trying like so many others to have an answer to this... this outrageous event.
If you want to voice your opinion, please join us there:
Just voiced it. It sounds like even the WotC fanboys are up in arms about it. I'm never again going to buy WotC products, or visit their site. For all I care, WotC can go f&$% themselves. They've just made possibly the worst business decision they will ever make.
I have purchased and subscribed to both Dragon (issue 45 to current) and Dungeon (issue 1 to current); they adorn my gaming wall in sturdy magazine boxes labeled by year. Recently, I made more shelf room to accommodate the 2007 & 2008 editions of the publications. What a great time I had collecting, reading, carting around, using, laughing at the comics, and just admiring these valued tomes. On many occasions many of them found their way into my briefcase, my business colleges astonished that a man of my age (45) continues to dabble in what they consider a childish game, fools they be.
I will sincerely miss seeing these shrink-wrapped friends arrive, truly an end of an era. However, I remain truly optimistic and foresee the day when these beloved magazines resurface back into the capable and creative hands of the wonderful Paizo staff.
For the time being, Pathfinder and all of Paizo's valued products shall line my shelves. As for WOTC, let us hope that they discover that we gamers truly love these publications - I only hope their decision will generate a product that can capture much of the excellence we have seen in the last five years.
Continued good gaming, I too share in your grief.
When I heard about Dragon and Dungeon going away, I was pretty bummed out. I've been a reader since The Dragon #27, and my icon is a portrait that Stan! drew for a Dragon piece we did on fantasy movies. Dragon was where I wrote the first of my three gaming adaptations of Stonehenge (the other two being Risk Godstorm and the upcoming Stonehenge board game), and Dungeon let me turn my three favorite Shakespeare plays into D&D adventures. As our big team at WotC R&D put together 3rd Edition, I got to watch the magazines morph and grow into something new. I'd seen every transition the magazines had made, and didn't much like what the last transition would be.
But in the last nine months or so, I've gotten to see Paizo from the inside, as I've helped them launch the Titanic Games board game line. And well before this transition, Lisa and her crew were thinking about the future of Paizo. They'd launched a strong online store, and put out some solid game books and accessories. And what I saw was a company that was about to turn all the skills it gained kicking out magazines into a full-fledged entertainment company.
I've seen the Pathfinder line, and it's gorgeous. I've seen what's in Erik's fiction-packed brain regarding Planet Stories, and the gleam in his eye is the same one I had when I got to get all my favorite comics artists to work on my Marvel games. And I've had everybody at Paizo--everybody--hovering over my shoulder on the board game plans, contributing idea after idea. Stonehenge wouldn't be what it will be without Vic, Jason, Joshua, Jeremy, Sean, Jeff, Phil, Erik and the rest of the Paizo folks playtesting, critiquing and writing board game material. And I listen, because they really know what they're talking about. They've come a long way from just being a magazine company.
I've seen a lot of the things on the schedule for Paizo in the next months, and I'm here to tell you that there's a decent chance you'll like it all. Anyway, it'll be worth your time to check it out. Thanks for listening.
Mike
After I got the news about Dragon and Dungeon mags, I called my wife and told her. She was extremely distressed, and asked, “what about Savage Tide and new APs?” I told her about what WotC wanted to do with the online format and about Pathfinder. She seemed mildly appeased but still not real happy. I’m the game geek of the family, so I read each magazine cover to cover, find the stuff I know she’ll be interested in and stick it in her face. Now I’ll have to do it online and print it. Not as convenient as carrying a magazine around in the car, book bag or brief case, but, hey, what can you do. Maybe WotC did commit a grave error. Maybe a boycott of their products would make a statement that will get the mags back in hard pint. Maybe the second coming of Christ will be this afternoon. Maybe not.
As gamers, we had to change with the times. How many of us resisted 3rd edition at first?
I know I did. But I gave it a shot, read the PHB and said, “WOW! This is pretty cool”. How many of us use a laptop as a DM tool? I’m guilty. I would have thought about ten years ago; now spreadsheets, dice rollers and XP calculators make our games run a lot smoother. The point being, we have to move with the technology and the times.
I have to give a pat on the back to Paizo for being farsighted enough to start a new line of OGL products. I’ve found myself being more interested it material produced by companies other than WotC anyway.
WotC will make bad decisions. Paizo will make bad decisions. Not all choices made in business are good ones. This could be one of the kinds of bad decisions that causes a monsoon of creativity to flood us with a buffet of great products. Be ready, someone will fill the void.
D&D players unite! I say we boycott WotC. I won't buy any of their products from a source that gives them profit (still off ebay though). The only way to make a point to some people is to hit them in the wallet as hard as you possibly can. I am am going to go send them an irate email as soon as I'm done here and mabye another one everyday. I might just tell them where they can stick their 'online content'. I love Dungeon and Dragon magazines and no online content is going to replace the feel of an actual magazine in my hands. I will deeply miss the articles in Dragon and the talent displayed therein. If anyone aggrees with the idea of avoiding giving WotC any money please spread the word; send them emails, post encouragements to others on other sites.
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While I know that it won't do any good, there is an online petition that will at least allow us to have our voice heard.
This is a supremely stupid and heartbreaking decision on WotC's part. I'm extremely angry about this.
I'm actually crying right now.
Why did WotC do this? I'm trying like so many others to have an answer to this... this outrageous event.
If you want to voice your opinion, please join us there:
Unfortunately its a simple derivation... its their new line of adventures.. and choosing to have no competitors.
I suppose it had to happen eventually. It is sad to hear, however. Dragon has been an indispensable asset for my group for the last couple of years, and Dungeons APs have been amazing. I’ll give Pathfinder a shot. And if I don’t like it, well, I’ve got plenty of adventures in past issues that I haven’t run yet. Or, I could just go back and do it the old fashion way – write them myself. I’ll admit that I’ve gotten a little spoiled on the excellent stories and the PDF supplements. I used to write fairly good multi-plot stories and a pretty good artist. These two fantastic magazines have been like candy sticking to my teeth.
All-in-all, I don’t think it will be much different. WotC has already started a Sage Advice online column, and they put out supplemental information every day. We all check it on an almost daily basis. WotC will still have their hard product available for purchase and there will still be message boards where we can discuss and share ideas.
I do hope that all of the back issues will be available. If not, I better get all I can now and start writing.
Wow! It’s the end of an era. But all good things must end, right. There was a song that said, “every new beginning came from some other beging’s end”. I was around for issue #1 of both magazines, and I’ll be here for the last. Raise an ale and sing a song to the books of bards and welcome the winds of change.
Unlike the WotC message boards where there have been extreme negative responses to the news, I so far have not found any extreme responses to the news from those on this forum.
I began with #48, the one with the Phil Foglio "Demonic IRS Agent" cover. Still have it.
Subscribed, back when I was a teener. Got every issue, straight from Lake Geneva to my dusty little Texas cow town, every month. When one grows up in a dusty little Texas cow town, this is something to look forward to. At least until one gets a car.
The articles did a lot for my game. The ads did a lot for my hobbies. I found ads for stuff I never dreamed existed in there, and eventually wound up buying in pretty big. As I write this, I sit in my office at home, a room lined with literally thousands of miniatures. Even in the times where I didn't play much of anything, I always loved the minis. Kept collecting.
When the DRAGON CD-ROM collection came out, I about busted a gut getting out to buy it. A lot of those issues were old friends, you see, and not all of 'em held up too well through my college years, or the many moves, or the growth of my children.
As I ponder this decision on WOTC's part, I find myself wondering what they're thinking.
You know, the Coca-Cola company thought they were pretty smart, too. They decided to "improve" their formula. What they didn't realize was that they weren't just altering a product... they were screwing around with what had become, in many minds, an American institution -- a TRADITION.
When one monkeys with sacred cows, one had best be ready to be burned at the stake as a heretic.
I will not, personally, camp outside the WOTC offices with a sniper rifle, or anything, nor am I recommending that anyone else do so. I do feel a bit like waving a torch around and screaming, though.
I feel robbed.
If someone had said, "These magazines aren't profitable, so we're ceasing publication," that'd be one thing. It would suck, true, but it's not like I can pay 'em to keep publishing.
But now I am told, "Well, Paizo would have been happy to keep publishing, but WOTC has decreed that something that has been a tradition in your life since 1979 is going to die now, for no apparent reason, as WOTC hasn't really gotten around to explaining why this is going to happen."
Even when I didn't play, I could always pick up a copy of DRAGON and read about it. There have been occasions when travelling that this was a durned handy thing to be able to do in a strange town.
What WOTC has done is a remarkably boneheaded PR move, if nothing else. It's highhanded, hamhanded, and worthy of the Lorraine Williams era, when TSR seemed to think it could gleefully (expletive) all over its fan base and still make money.
Dungeons and Dragons has a history, you see, and it has traditions. It has old bores like me who remember the Brown Boxes, the Basic Sets, and a whole lot more. And it has youngbloods like you, there, reading this, despite my windy old maunderings, who might even be interested in all that. And today, I find that a part of that tradition is going to die.
DC editor Mike Carlin made an unpleasant discovery when they killed off Superman. To paraphrase him, "We hadn't just sold a story. We hadn't just changed a product. We don't really own Superman. We are merely custodians of a legend."
Is Dragon Magazine a product? Sure. Do they own it? Yes. Can't argue with that. But if it's not a liability... why kill it?
WOTC, you have rattled a great many cages with your decision. I really hope you know what you're doing.