I’m wrestling with how to fit the demon princes and the Abyss into Eberron’s cosmology.
This isn't premature. It may be many moons before we see Eberron conversion notes on the STAP adventures Into the Maw, The Wells of Darkness, Enemies of my Enemy, and Prince of Demons. But I need to start foreshadowing soon. I want to lace the earlier adventures with fragments of prophesies, hints, clues, and whispers that create background themes and atmosphere as harbingers for what’s to come. I want to begin generating fear now about the places the PCs will ultimately have to visit and horrific entities they’ll have to face.
So, what thoughts do you have on how best to integrate these classic abyssal elements into Eberron? Should Demogorgon, Orcas, Malcanthet and the rest be in different parts of Khyber? How does one “sail” to Khyber? Should Demogorgon be in Khyber, but Orcas in Dolurrh and Malcanthet in Mabar? Are there meaningful, powerful ways to give these Greyhawk/FR elements a distinctly Eberron feel?
I'm planning to make Demogorgon a Rakshasa Rajah, much like is suggested by the conversion notes so far. He's bound in Khyber, but is more shallowly bound than many of his brethren and can therefore more easily directly affect certain points on Xendrik and Khorvaire. Instead of being a modified Aspect, Khala is an independent but loyal unique Rakshasa in Demogorgon's service.
I plan to make Malcanthet a Radiant Idol. She was initially a powerful planar outsider, but when she became obsessed with the sentient races of Eberron in eons past, she found she was no longer able to return home. As time passed, she found she no longer wanted to. In any case, lesser outsiders that are unable to return home flock to her cult, and amongst the PC races it has a modest following, although nothing like any of the standard religions.
I am less certain what I'll do with Orcus, but it might be worthwhile to make him a Daelkyr. The Daelkyr and Rakshasa are violently opposed to each other even as they are bound within Khyber, and even though Daelkyr-Orcus ultimately wants to destroy all of Eberron the destruction of Rajah-Demogorgon is a necessary step on that path. No matter how powerful the PCs get, Daelkyr-Orcus can simply wait until they've become irrelevant. Naturally, helpful Orcus will offer to 'retrofit' the PCs and their allies with Daelkyr bio-magitech, with no strings attached. Honest!
The Aztech deities of the Isle of Dread are becoming Native Outsiders that found alongside the Coatl in the Age of Demons. Quetzalcoatl, of course, was a legendarily powerful Coatl himself, and not actually a god. Camazotz and Tlaloc, etc. were similarly powerful Native Outsiders that were taken for gods by the mortal races, but are simply not as well known to Khorvaire as the Coatl, due to the influence of the Silver Flame as a Coatl Mystery Cult.
How does one “sail” to Khyber?
I remembered Keith Baker writing something about this specifically on the Wizards forum. Yay google yay!
The connections between [Demogorgon's realm and Eberron] are magical as much as physical, but if you sail your vessel into Eberron's answer to the Bermuda Triangle (the Grey Tide, perhaps), and while there steer directly into a terrible storm, if your ship survives the experience, you may reach the Abyssal Ocean that lies on the other side.
So, there is one possible answer. I think I'll run with some version of this unless something else comes along. Fortunately I'm running so far behind both the adventures and the conversion notes I don't think my group will move faster than the notes.
We're pretty far from even starting STAP/Eberron, but I know that I'll be relying on Dragon article #337 pretty heavily. This is the one where Keith gave a pretty indepth review of the Lords of Dust.
Personally I was pretty shocked that Demogorgon wasn't connected to the Daelkyr some how.
Connecting Demogorgon and the Savage Tide itself to the daeklyr sounds logical to a certain extent, but Keith's stated objective was to minimise the need for actual work in the conversions . . . and re-statting everything connected to Demogorgon and the Savage Tide as aberrations instead of fiends would definitely count as work!
We're pretty far from even starting STAP/Eberron, but I know that I'll be relying on Dragon article #337 pretty heavily. This is the one where Keith gave a pretty indepth review of the Lords of Dust.
Based on this comment I went to the store and picked up #337 as a pdf file. I haven't had a chance to read any of the rest of the magazine, but if you are running STAP in Eberron, then the Lords of Dust article is well worth the $5 IMHO.
Connecting Demogorgon and the Savage Tide itself to the daeklyr sounds logical to a certain extent, but Keith's stated objective was to minimise the need for actual work in the conversions . . . and re-statting everything connected to Demogorgon and the Savage Tide as aberrations instead of fiends would definitely count as work!
Nonsense. Take the original stat blocks, cross out "Outsider (Evil, Chaotic, Extraplanar)" and scribble in "Aberration". Free associate some new descriptive text, and never identify the creature by its official name. Granted, the stats won't match up exactly, since (for instance) aberrations are supposed to have crappy BAB and saves compared to outsiders, but who cares? To the players, your monsters are black boxes anyway. For instance, the Hezrou in the Plateau become "reeking fishlike abominations bristling with razor teeth and wriggling cilia". If the PCs have enough knowledge skills to force you to name it, call it a "Deep One Corruptor" or whatever comes to mind at the moment. They don't need stats detailed enough to reverse-engineer the fact that it is a Hezrou.
I like the Lord of Dust option best, myself, but I can't really call it 'work' to make Demogorgon a Daelkyr. Keith's objective is not without merit, but I can't help but think that the reason people pick a specific campaign world is because they want it to not be generic. If you didn't want airships, dragonmarks, or aberrations you wouldn't have chosen to run in or play in Eberron in the first place.
Yea that was pretty much what I was thinking just a simple cross out and making them aberrations. Plus I mean I can't see why evil outsider's couldn't simply affiliated with the flesh-warping of the Daelkyr. I don't see the bigger picture of the WHOLE adventure so once every thing's out and I start to plan it all out, I'll figure what makes the most sense with the least amount of work and most fluff.
What I want to stay away from is the Lords of Dust being the masterminds for EVERYTHING. If I'm not mistaken their's a major LoD connection in the AoW path which we have the been running intermittently.
Well, to be precise, Demogorgon isn't part of the Lords of Dust. He doesn't want to free the rajahs, he wants to replace them.
Well, to be precise, Demogorgon isn't part of the Lords of Dust. He doesn't want to free the rajahs, he wants to replace them.
As has been briefly touched upon in previous replies!
Demogorgon for me = Daelkyr, his allies and minions = aberrations
Sure this makes a bit more work and alteration, but I do this to all the adventures I use anyway, to make it fit my style, the players and most of all the campaign!
But I am thinking of leaving the Demonic lords like malcanthet and orcus as demonic forces or at least soemthing that opposes the daelkyr.
Maybe one of the them a Powerful Draconic entitity, but so far we are a long way away, but I do like to foreshadow and add hints and plots.
Outsiders just don't seem to mesh as well for me with Eberron, besides the lords of dust featured heavily for our group in the Age of Worms, so we needed a change.
But I am thinking of leaving the Demonic lords like malcanthet and orcus as demonic forces or at least soemthing that opposes the daelkyr.
Oh great idea!!! Might have to steal that one from you!