What is the cultural difference between mountain dwarves and hill dwarves? I applaud the thought that the two distinctions can have the exact same abilities and stats, rahter than making them into wildly different subraces, but the Monster Manual has only a pitifully small blurb to define the mountain dwarf's differences from the hill dwarf. Developing the culture of the various races and peoples in my campaign world is an important thing to me, so any information would be great. I had previously not thought that there was enough of a difference, and just gotten rid of the distinction (I really like WoW's image of dwarven architecture, and was going with that), but then I thought that I should try and learn more before making such a decision. Thanks in advance!
I think its a Tolkeinesque anachronism, based on the differences between Thorins band of wandering craftsmen (the Hill dwarves) and thier wealthier, mining cousins, a la Dain and the Iron Hills bunch (Mtn Dwarves). I'd think the Hill Dwarves may be more cosmopolitan, maybe more NG than LG in outlook, and trade oriented, where mtn dwarves would be more focused on dwarven culture and hierarchy. Just random thoughts...
In Dragonlance, the Hill Dwarves were more common because they were on the surface and interacted with humans and other races more often. Mountain Dwarves always seemed to be hiding underground.
Yes, that's pretty much what the Monster Manual tells me. But what about their government, religion, art, culture, history, architecture, politics, racial tensions, etc.? That's what I want to know. If there are no resources along those lines, then I'd just as soon merge the two.
Yes, that's pretty much what the Monster Manual tells me. But what about their government, religion, art, culture, history, architecture, politics, racial tensions, etc.? That's what I want to know. If there are no resources along those lines, then I'd just as soon merge the two.
There some basic differences that you could bring up base on location. Mountains can almost be mined forever so mountain dwarves would be more into grand stone halls and galleries(like Moria). Their history would carved into the stonework, everything would vaulted and tall like the peaks they reside in. Their magic forges could be used to create the most awesome artifact weapons.
Hill dwarves would be more rustic. They would travel more, act as tinkers and merchants. When they mine a hill for all it's worth they would move on. They wouldn't have need of large austere art objects. Their traditions would be passed on in a almost strictly oral form. They would be more pragmatic then their mountain kin and less bound by the rules. The differences would be similiar to comparing big city folk from country folk or the Sheiks of Saudia Arabia to the Nomads of the Sahara. Racially there would not be much difference, but socially there would be.
Really though it is your game and if you don't have differences (culture, phsyical appearance, linguistics) between your human societies (desert dwellers, city dwellers, rural folk, far northerners, etc....) you really don't need them here or with any other sub-divided race. Look what Birthright did with goblinkind. Who says drow have to be black - wouldn't they be scarier if they looked like everyone else?
GGG
Really though it is your game and if you don't have differences (culture, phsyical appearance, linguistics) between your human societies (desert dwellers, city dwellers, rural folk, far northerners, etc....) you really don't need them here or with any other sub-divided race.
Oh, but I do have racial subdivision amongst humans! It's kind of strange: I'm trying to reduce the number of non-human subraces, and increase the number of human subraces (from zero to more than zero; so far I've got five).
I'd considered the rural folk/city folk analogy to the dwarves before. But, when I consider dwarven cities and communities, I immediately think Moria and Ironforge and places like that. So, if that's mountain dwarf, what is hill dwarf like?
And which flavor of dwarf would you like?Chocolate, please.
:D
I'd considered the rural folk/city folk analogy to the dwarves before. But, when I consider dwarven cities and communities, I immediately think Moria and Ironforge and places like that. So, if that's mountain dwarf, what is hill dwarf like?
I do the mtn ones like you describe, and the hill ones more like rustic highlanders, living in long halls up in the hills, raising herds of goats (and drinking fermented goats' milk when the ale just isn't packing enough punch), etc. A lot of them are bandits, too. On the whole, I allow them to have a chaotic bent and sense of humor that their underground-dwelling cousins tend to lack. Just my way of doing it; your mileage, as they say, may vary.
The hill dwarf architecture is much more simplistic IMC. They use wood along with stone. Mountain dwarves enjoy their grand vaulted Moria-style dwellings while Hill dwarves tend to have lower ceiled, small-brick construction or long wooden lodge halls - like hill giant architecture on a miniature scale. Hill dwarf communities would look similar to halfling communities - except with more stonework. I sorta picture a wild west boomtown kind of transient feel to such communities. Small individual forges rather than huge elaborate ones. A rustic small-town feel with gossipy womenfolk and bearded males playing dragonchess or dice in the local tavern.
While mountain dwarves are hoarders, hill dwarves are traders. The influence of "surface dwellers" makes hill dwarves a bit friendlier and more flexible. Though both subraces have no particular love for elves, hill dwarves are much less extreme in their views against other races (finding them annoying but tolerable). Their behavioral similarities to halflings and gnomes makes them particularly sensitive and irritable to any implied connections between the races. Still, in general, hill dwarves are much more gregarious than their mountain-dwelling cousins and much less concerned with the whole evil-subterranean dwarf rivalry. Hill dwarves still maintain a healthy animosity toward goblinkin, however.
Family honor is important, as is the clan, but hill dwarves are less concerned with bloodlines and long genealogies. Each dwarf is responsible for establishing his own honor and respectability (rather than relying on the fact that their great-great-grandpappy was the high mucky-muck of such and such an organization). Their rules for living are less stringent. Hill dwarves would have more non-standard classes represented (spell-casters, etc). Family traditions exist but community traditions are less defined.
Just some of the differences in my campaigns.
Oops, forgot to mention thatin keeping with the whole city mouse versus country mouse analogy I use in the dwarven ecologies of my campaign, the hill dwarves almost never live in large communities and vice versa. Every mountain dwarf community represents countless generations of dwarves living in the same place - so they have grand, complex societies. Hill dwarf communities rarely exceed 2 or 3 clans, all of whom have only been living in this one area as long as the mining holds out (supplimented by small scale farming as Kirth suggested). Again, with similarity to real-world western boomtowns, if too many hill dwarves gather in one community this often leads to lawlessness and conflict. Usually one or more clans will break off and create a new community nearby before too much chaos breaks out.
Rogues in hill dwarf communities are uncommon and any practice of banditry frowned upon but it's not as rare (virtually non-existent) as it is in mountain dwarf communities where such besmirchment of generations of honor would not be tolerated and reprecussions would be extremely harsh.
Now that's what I was looking for! Excellent post. I have a much clearer vision in my head of the hill dwarf versus mountain dwarf now, and I think I can deffinitely see a place for that in my games. I like the thought that the hill dwarves might still be part of the same kingdom as the mountain dwarves, but ages ago their ancestors decided to try mining on the surface, perhaps fed up with the drow and duergar of the Underdark. Then one can play up all kinds of interesting inter-relations and politics and histories between the two.
I dont like dwarf; they get stuck between my teeth and they are all stringy; take to long to marinade and you gotta cook em real slow over a low heat; prefereably in a flower pot with various spices, but some come complete ....what? why is everyone looking at me? was it something i said; hehe do I have dwarf on my chin; someone hand me a napkin pls. I am so embarrassed.
I think Terry Pratchett had some interesting ideas about dwarven culture in Discworld, especially books like Feet of Clay and Fifth Elephant.
guess this thread needed more spice; I agree; dwarves are dry tuff ol birds; but if set at a low temp; well; they come pre seasoned from years of injecting booze, you just gotta use low wet heat cooking methods or have floss and toothpicks onhand.
Lady Aura did the best job in describing the difference between us Mountain Dwarves and our Hill Dwarf cousins. Another way to look at the culture differences is take a look at England and America (or United Kingdom/Great Britian and United States). England does to have a much greater since of thier history and heritage. Where as in general not so much in America. And on and on goes the culture similarties and differences.
As far a physical describtion. Mountain Dwarves tend to be lighter complextion, due to having less contact with the sun. But not near as light as those filthy backstabbing Duegar/Gray Dwarves. We also tend to be taller and weighter than the Hills. It comes from us working harder so we have more muscles. Lastly, the bride and joy for any self respecting Dwarf, our beards (and the rest of our hair). In colour we tend to have more red. Where as the Hills have more black and brown. Clothing wise the Hills tend to choose darker, somber earth tones, and wear little jewelry. Whereas we take more pride in our clothes and like to show of our work as a matter of pride.
