What do you think is the best melee simple weapon? These usually get ignored by the majority of people and for good reason. Yes, yes I know the sorcerer and cleric, but how many cleric have you seen that are either a dwarf, elf, or have taken the war domain so they usually end up with a martial weapon? I would actually like to see more simple weapons used besides the dagger and crossbow.
Fizz
Those in my game seem to prefer the heavy mace or (in the case of the player with the Goliath Barbarian/Ranger/Warblade 2 heavy maces. It used to be 2 light maces, but through a combination of feats he is truly frightening now.
Personally, I prefer the spear as well. Flexibility is good.
From an adventuring standpoint, a morning star is a pretty good utility weapon. It does 1d8, and while a lot of weapons have better critical ranges or capabilities (a 20, a confirmation roll, and you only get x2 . . . ), its still a respectable amount of damage AND it does piecing and bludgeoning damage, meaning that if you run into something that has a "type" damage reduction, you should still be good.
A third for morningstar--almost every melee character I build carries one. Spear and shortspear are both nice for switching between melee and ranged. And longspear is a great second-rank weapon. Oh, and the club--that's the highest damage ranged bludgeoning weapon on the standard charts. I once had a character with a returning club...
I too make heavy use of the morningstar and lets not forget that the heavy and light crossbows are simple weapons. I almost always use a heavy crossbow. 1d10 points of damage is pretty sweet against a kobold.
I too make heavy use of the morningstar and lets not forget that the heavy and light crossbows are simple weapons. I almost always use a heavy crossbow. 1d10 points of damage is pretty sweet against a kobold.
If we open to the door to ranged weapons, I honestly prefer the light crossbow -- 1d8 per round is preferable to 1d10 every other round (or, in the case of my current crossbow wielder, 1d4 per round rather than 1d6 per two. Yes, she uses the crossbow to avoid taking a strength penalty on damage rolls) With Rapid Reload, you can make iterative attacks with the light crossbow when your base attack bonus is high enough.
1d10 is a pretty nice opening to combat though, for a simple weapon. As far as simple melee weapons go, I think I recall Sexi Golem mentioning the concept of a Ranger using the Two Weapon Combat Style and carrying a quarterstaff rather than a pair of weapons. It's a pretty nifty way to get some extra mileage out of a simple weapon with no GP cost, and it's less likely to get you dirty looks when you carry your weapon into the bar with you.
I'm a fan of the Longspear and it's reach ability, makes it a little more possible for a fragile character to do some melee, especially if you're standing behind another.
Plus, you get a nice AoO against most medium and smaller creatures, and you can set it against a charge.
The sling can also be nice, specially around lower levels, because you can add your strength bonus to damage without cost.
|
I'm a fan of the Longspear and it's reach ability, makes it a little more possible for a fragile character to do some melee, especially if you're standing behind another.
Plus, you get a nice AoO against most medium and smaller creatures, and you can set it against a charge.
The sling can also be nice, specially around lower levels, because you can add your strength bonus to damage without cost.
Sling is my favorite simple weapon, especially when coupled with Alchemical sling bullets from the Arms and Equipment Guide.
Just wish it got more love feat-wish.Morningstar is a close second for me and, as a previous poster stated, almost all of my characters carry one as a backup weapon (and some as a primary).
FH
Quarterstaff -- probably among my favorite three or four weapons in D&D.
Unobtrusive, reasonable damage, and your can double your punch with 2-wpn fighting. BTW, it's my understanding that a well-trained staff wielder will beat an unarmored swordsman in a real-life duel.
Simple weapons are just plain fun! Morningstars are virtually as good as a longsword, and almost anyone can use them. Crossbows are excellent opening-salvo weapons. I'm not sure if light or heavy are better. If one plans on actually firing with one for any amount of time, light is better for its speed, but in my experience, one shot every other round is often fast enough for anyone using such a weapon, making the 1d10 punch quite nice. Not to mention they have a decent critical range.
I am a huge fan of spears in the hands of druids. It just feels so right to me, for some reason. And they are such a versatile weapon type. Throw them, close to melee, set for a charge, use the from the second rank... very fun.
Daggers are also great. Quick draw and throw them, Sleight of Hand to conceal them, Weapon Finesse them, or even just carry one as a back-up for worst-case scenarios (purple worm, anyone?). I'm currently trying out a necromancer wizard in NWN2. I'm getting to the point where running out of spells is rare, but I have to say there's something exciting about getting to the point where I have to break out my +1 dagger and close to melee with a wolf or a lizardfolk, uncertain if my 8 Str wizard will be able to do the job. The thrill of actually pulling it off can't be beat. And that is in a computer game! Doing the same in pen and paper is even better.
Simple weapons are just plain fun, because they're often used by secondary or even tertiary combatants, who have to really get creative and brave to squeeze out the most that they can from their sub-par combat abilities when needed.
Simple weapons are just plain fun! Morningstars are virtually as good as a longsword, and almost anyone can use them.
I've never used a morningstar. It seemed very menacing to me. I could just never picture any of my pc's using one. I do think they are very useful, but they never seemed right for a good pc.
Fizz
In my humble opinion it has to be the Quarterstaff. Followed closely by the Light Crossbow.
With the quarterstaff you get most of the versatility of weapons the fighters had to spend feats on to get exotic weapons that do potentially TWO (2) more points of damage.
With the Light Crossbow you have the awesome adventage of being out of harms way, doing damage in combat and bumping your armor class up. My thiefs' favorite tactic in combat will come as no suprise to any military folks out there. He finds the enemy, puts a tree between him and them... and then drops prone firing away. (+8 AC bonus? yeah, I'll sign up.)
just my two coppers,
-Roth
A third for morningstar--almost every melee character I build carries one. Spear and shortspear are both nice for switching between melee and ranged. And longspear is a great second-rank weapon. Oh, and the club--that's the highest damage ranged bludgeoning weapon on the standard charts. I once had a character with a returning club...
Back in the day (2nd edition) I had a player that wandered around with something like a dozen masterwork clubs which he used to throw during combat. At the time it really irked me that he could 'master work' a club. I mean it was like 1 gp to buy the master work version. However these days the thought just brings on a fond smile and waves of nostalgia.
anyway my players are big on the spear and long spear.
|
Yes, yes I know the sorcerer and cleric, but how many cleric have you seen that are either a dwarf, elf, or have taken the war domain so they usually end up with a martial weapon?
Not me. My cleric is human, and does not have the War domain. He uses a heavy mace (cleric of Pelor) and it works pretty well for him, when he can actually hit something despite his +0 Str bonus, that is.
|
I agree with those posts about the club. It does decent damage, and almost anything can be made into one - "Oh, I am trapped in a furniture store without a weapon! Wait, I shall take this table leg smite my enemies with it." I also like daggers - great back-up weapon that can be easily concealed and thrown. Also, I like the dart - not much damage, but they make a great "in a pinch" ranged attack. I had a monk character who wielded darts for any enemies he couldn't get to, like flyers.
Not much news here...crossbows and morningstars are also for me the ones which see most use.
Ah, however I do remember AD&D halfling fighters with weapon specialization in darts...for first level character that was the damagecombo.
I agree with those posts about the club. It does decent damage, and almost anything can be made into one - "Oh, I am trapped in a furniture store without a weapon! Wait, I shall take this table leg smite my enemies with it." I also like daggers - great back-up weapon that can be easily concealed and thrown. Also, I like the dart - not much damage, but they make a great "in a pinch" ranged attack. I had a monk character who wielded darts for any enemies he couldn't get to, like flyers.
I agree with the club. In fact my current gnome wizard fancies himself a pretty good cook. His weapon if choice is a heavy wooden spoon (a club). It goes pretty much un-noticed whereever he goes which works just fine for a gnome trying not to look like a wizard. ;)
I kinda like the punching dagger. It's damage is kind of low but its a light weapon AND its got a x3 crit. Plus, I enjoy the idea of the weapon aesthetically. Especially if you're dual-wielding them.
True be told, I'm looking for a good aesthetically appealing simple melee weapon for a gun mage...you may have a bit more insight on this Fate.
Fizz
Another vote for the morningstar - specifically a large morningstar. -2 penalty, but then a rogue can throw 3d6 to 5d6 damage (including sneak attack) at 1st level, plus Strength bonus.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
True be told, I'm looking for a good aesthetically appealing simple melee weapon for a gun mage...you may have a bit more insight on this Fate.
Punching daggers are a good choice there, too. You could even customize the grips on your pistols to incorporate said weapons without really altering their function. The blade would be perpendicular to the gun, however, so you couldn't use the blade and shoot the opponent at the same time (as you can with the usual firearms/melee combos in the IKCG). Still, it provides some protection for the gun mage in melee and allows you to score some fairly devastating criticals with a light, easily concealed weapon.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm a huge quarterstaff fan myself, one of my current daydreams(If I could get anyone else in my group to run a game) is to play a dual wielding ranger who makes full use of his quarterstaff. Give him that unassuming traveler look until he lays the hurt down.
I do have to put in a vote for a heavy crossbow though. Had a buddy who played a fight/knight type(was dragonlance and he went through the different solomnia prestiges). At first level he got a masterwork heavy crossbow out of some treasure and it became his baby even though he had no dex to speak of.
That crossbow was his baby, whenever we were RPing some downtime he would take just as good of care of it as he would his swords, polishing it and checking the bolts and the like to make sure all of them were perfect. It never got a touch of magic on it though as we all knew it was never going to actually get used.
Then low and behold, we are in the upper teens(probably 17th at the time) and we bust into an arch-enemy caster's lair. We make fairly quick work of his minions and he starts to run down a hallway to try and draw us into more enemies and a trap. The casters in the party fail to stop him from getting away and we prepare to give chase when low and behold the knight pulls out his crossbow, gives the bolt a kiss, and snaps off a shot.
Our DM at the time had a house rule that if you roll a twenty, back it with a 20, and then can confirm the hit it functions almost as a coup de grace. Of course that never happens but in this one moment of glory we got to see why the knight had been destined to carry that masterwork xbow for 17 levels as the caster was pierced cleanly and collapsed to the floor as the night casually reloaded his crossbow and returned it to its place of honor upon his back.
So yeah, long story to say I vote for heavy crossbows and staffs.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Our DM at the time had a house rule that if you roll a twenty, back it with a 20, and then can confirm the hit it functions almost as a coup de grace.
We have a house rule that is a little similar to this. If you roll a natural 20, each additional natural 20 exponentially multiplies the critical until you roll anything other than a 20. This has only come up twice in my entire history of d20 gaming.
Example:
Bob the Barbarian rolls a natural 20 to hit with his greataxe (x3 crit). Then, on the confirmation roll, he rolls another 20 (up to x9 crit now). He is allowed to roll again. Miraculously, he rolls ANOTHER 20 (x27 crit!). Finally, he rolls a 4, which does not confirm the x27 crit afterall, but the x9 crit still happens, usually with devastating results.
This 'explosion' of crits only happens on natural 20s, no matter the weapon's normal crit range. The two times this has happened to me were once with a longsword (only got a x4 crit out of it) and once with a scythe (actually tripled this one... x64 crit was confirmed... it was horrendous).
I'm a huge quarterstaff fan myself, one of my current daydreams(If I could get anyone else in my group to run a game) is to play a dual wielding ranger who makes full use of his quarterstaff. Give him that unassuming traveler look until he lays the hurt down.
I do have to put in a vote for a heavy crossbow though. Had a buddy who played a fight/knight type(was dragonlance and he went through the different solomnia prestiges). At first level he got a masterwork heavy crossbow out of some treasure and it became his baby even though he had no dex to speak of.
That crossbow was his baby, whenever we were RPing some downtime he would take just as good of care of it as he would his swords, polishing it and checking the bolts and the like to make sure all of them were perfect. It never got a touch of magic on it though as we all knew it was never going to actually get used.
Then low and behold, we are in the upper teens(probably 17th at the time) and we bust into an arch-enemy caster's lair. We make fairly quick work of his minions and he starts to run down a hallway to try and draw us into more enemies and a trap. The casters in the party fail to stop him from getting away and we prepare to give chase when low and behold the knight pulls out his crossbow, gives the bolt a kiss, and snaps off a shot.
Our DM at the time had a house rule that if you roll a twenty, back it with a 20, and then can confirm the hit it functions almost as a coup de grace. Of course that never happens but in this one moment of glory we got to see why the knight had been destined to carry that masterwork xbow for 17 levels as the caster was pierced cleanly and collapsed to the floor as the night casually reloaded his crossbow and returned it to its place of honor upon his back.
So yeah, long story to say I vote for heavy crossbows and staffs.
That is awesome. Anyone who doesn't believe that dice are sentient, I direct you to this story!
I'm a huge quarterstaff fan myself, one of my current daydreams(If I could get anyone else in my group to run a game) is to play a dual wielding ranger who makes full use of his quarterstaff. Give him that unassuming traveler look until he lays the hurt down.
I keep going back to the same idea myself. A ranger with a a quarterstaff, two-weapon fighting when he can full attack, and two-handing it for 1 1/2 str damage when he charges or for whatever reason can only make one attack. Add the "hunting" enchantment from masters of the wild on both ends, improved favored enemy, and favored power attack (both from complete warrior i think). Thats ALOT of damage on a favored enemy from just a quarterstaff.
We just use the generic instant kill rules in our group. so far it has only happened twice, both time it was the same player. Once was against the fatigued bombardier beetle in the "Whispering Cairn" (1st adventure or the Age of Worms). I felt so bad for the poor thing.
The second time was actually a life saver. We were playing Star Wars RPG. somewhere on Tatooine we crashed a sail barg after going through a huge fight. the fight hadn't gone well for us, but we made it through barely. we made some reflex saves to avoid being crushed by the barg rolling over and then our GM says... "Roll initiative, and a Krak Dragon rises up out of the sand." We manged to hide with our first round before the thing could charge. We had all almost died already. We were in no shape for this. That same player took a full round to concentrate and fire. Natural 20. Everyone held there breath. Natural 20 again! Our GM was stunned. It fell over dead. Probably shouldn't have happened, but it as really the only way we were going to survive.
To add to the crazy-ness of it, he rolled both instant kills with the same d20. It had never been used for anything but those 2 times. Now he is afraid to use it inappropriately or he might jinx it.
This 'explosion' of crits only happens on natural 20s, no matter the weapon's normal crit range. The two times this has happened to me were once with a longsword (only got a x4 crit out of it) and once with a scythe (actually tripled this one... x64 crit was confirmed... it was horrendous).
I like this idea a lot. It has a 'even the kobold can kill your 10th level fighter' effect that appeals. Sure the chances of the Kobold doing a x64 critical (which probably kills a 10th level fighter outright with 128 or 192 points of damage) is very low but it does mean that the players should always be at least a little weary when they draw blades. Don't think my players will go for it though. I had to pull teeth just to get the most basic critical rules in. They saw the section in the PHB that said criticals where bad for players in the long run and formed a united front to ban criticals from the game. I beat them down but it was hard work.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
I like this idea a lot. Don't think my players will go for it though.
If you want, let them know that we've been doing it this way for almost 10 years and its come up TWICE... EVER. Of course, you could always rule that only the PCs can explode crits this way. Either way, it happens so rarely that it will have virtually no effect on your game at all.
Oh, and if anyone cares, the x64 crit ended up dealing ~1600 damage to a fire giant (which had 280ish HP). Very, VERY dead. The DM jokingly said that after the hit landed, the number '9999' popped out of the giant and it faded into nothingness.
I like this idea a lot. Don't think my players will go for it though.If you want, let them know that we've been doing it this way for almost 10 years and its come up TWICE... EVER. Of course, you could always rule that only the PCs can explode crits this way. Either way, it happens so rarely that it will have virtually no effect on your game at all.
Oh, and if anyone cares, the x64 crit ended up dealing ~1600 damage to a fire giant (which had 280ish HP). Very, VERY dead. The DM jokingly said that after the hit landed, the number '9999' popped out of the giant and it faded into nothingness.
Ahhhh that is awesome!
|
Sling. Can be used with a shield, adds strength to damage, range 50', allows for cold iron, silver, and adamantine ammo. By far the best range weapon for a shield-bearing fighter with high strength and low speed.
Runner-up: Quarterstaff. Non-threatening, double weapon, can be enhanced to cast spells, retributive strike, etc.
I like the "exploding crits" idea but I enjoy the old charts such as those found on omnihedron... "x2 crit and arm removed at the shoulder" seems much more interesting than "x2 crit"
On the topic of insta-kills, it has happened several times already with one player (the dice love him, he has only ever missed once and the party is lvl 4)
and then there was the time that our sorcerer decided to go over and examine the "dead" goblin, failed his sense motive, goblin lept up, 20-20, roll on chart "hit in chest, death"
it did however come to a good end, as the players had their first "real" roleplay as a result of that.
I then let the dead player play several big enemies to the chagrin of his former partymembers.
back on topic: dagger; easily concealable, inconspicuous, throwable, 19-20 crit, piercing or slashing, small, fun to rp with (trim your nails while talking to an NPC), can be used as a utensile (dang... that dragon bolld never really washed off)
Sling. Can be used with a shield, adds strength to damage, range 50', allows for cold iron, silver, and adamantine ammo. By far the best range weapon for a shield-bearing fighter with high strength and low speed.
I beg to differ. The best ranged weapon for such a fighter is a wizard :)
|
|
I beg to differ. The best ranged weapon for such a fighter is a wizard :)
The problem with wizards as range weapons is their poor range increment, the use of two hands to throw them, and the required exotic weapon proficiency (wizards) feat. Still, if you can throw a staff of power wielding wizard who readies an action to make a retributive strike, you can afford the penalty for using a non-proficient weapon since the thrown wizard is probably a touch attack. To make this attack even more powerful, put the wizard in spiked armour and get the rogue to throw him to get the sneak attack.
The problem with wizards as range weapons is their poor range increment and the required exotic weapon proficiency (wizards) feat. Still, if you can throw a staff of power wielding wizard who readies an action to make a retributive strike, you can afford the penalty for using a non-proficient weapon since the thrown wizard is probably a touch attack. To make this attack even more powerful, put the wizard in spiked armour and get the rogue to throw him to get the sneak attack.
I beg to differ. The best ranged weapon for such a fighter is a wizard :)
make shure he has all those spare alchy fires and acids in his backpack first
|
|
The problem with wizards as range weapons is their poor range increment, the use of two hands to throw them, and the required exotic weapon proficiency (wizards) feat. Still, if you can throw a staff of power wielding wizard who readies an action to make a retributive strike, you can afford the penalty for using a non-proficient weapon since the thrown wizard is probably a touch attack. To make this attack even more powerful, put the wizard in spiked armour and get the rogue to throw him to get the sneak attack.
So if a wizard casts true strike on himself, and then is in fact thrown at an enemy(or hurled in some way, think ballista) does the bonus apply as he is the one doing damage(as an unarmed strike) even though the thrower is the one who has the attack roll to make?
LOL :)
I think we can improve on the range increment and eliminate the two-handed requirement by using halfling wizards. Who wants to keep halflings around, anyway?
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Let's be honest... the real problem with using wizards is that they are incredibly easy to sunder. I mean, your average piece of plywood has more HP than a 1st level wizard. If you want to start toting 10th level wizards around, well, I think you'll discover that they get expensive very quickly.
|
|
Let's be honest... the real problem with using wizards is that they are incredibly easy to sunder. I mean, your average piece of plywood has more HP than a 1st level wizard. If you want to start toting 10th level wizards around, well, I think you'll discover that they get expensive very quickly.
+1 returning, balanced, throwing wizard. You won't be able get multiple attacks a round off but once a round you get watch your pasty-faced wizard splat into the giant and spin back to your hand, ready to be fired off again.
Also like Javelins. I just like the concept and the fact that alot of monstrous humanoids use them.
FH
|
|
Let's be honest... the real problem with using wizards is that they are incredibly easy to sunder. I mean, your average piece of plywood has more HP than a 1st level wizard. If you want to start toting 10th level wizards around, well, I think you'll discover that they get expensive very quickly.
That's what raise dead is for. Think of it as a REALLY expensive alchemist fire.
Quarterstaff -- probably among my favorite three or four weapons in D&D.
Unobtrusive, reasonable damage, and your can double your punch with 2-wpn fighting. BTW, it's my understanding that a well-trained staff wielder will beat an unarmored swordsman in a real-life duel.
Right until they cut your stick in half, followed quickly by you. :D
(Trying to think of a Simple weapon with Necromantic overtones . . . .)
