Daemon hunter...

[Capt. Sav-A-Hoe]

I am running a militant paladin/cleric of St.Cuthbert who is focusing on demon hunting. I need some help with a prestige class and the feats list first-twenty. I am also going to ask our DM if I can have a Legacy Holy avenger.

[Aramil Naïlo]

Capt. Sav-A-Hoe wrote:

I am running a militant paladin/cleric of St.Cuthbert who is focusing on demon hunting. I need some help with a prestige class and the feats list first-twenty. I am also going to ask our DM if I can have a Legacy Holy avenger.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read this was an example in the PHB about class customization. You might be better off combing the Paladin class with the Ranger class and create a custom Demon Slayer class. If you are interested in taking this route I would gladly do all the work for you.

[ericthecleric]

You should look up the Knight of the Chalice PrC (Complete Warrior). As a 9th-level KotC, you'd have a +4 competence bonus on attacks against evil outsiders, and every strike would deal +4d6 against evil outsiders. :-)
The simplest way to handle it would be paladin10/knight of the chalice 10.
A multiclassed paladin/ranger is a good idea.
You need at least BAB +8 to qualify for the PrC, so, consider paladin 6/ranger 2 and getting the Improved Favored Enemy feat (also Complete Warrior). Doing this, your favored enemy damage bonus (evil outsiders, right?) would be +5, and stacks with the PrC bonus. Plus you'd get the 1st combat mastery feat.
And if you want a high Cha (which you do for great saving throws), consider also getting Divine Might feat (Complete Warrior).
Edit: Go for Paladin5 at the start, pick up 4 ranger levels and the Devoted Tracker feat (Complete Adventurer) at 9th-level, then 10 levels of Knight of the Chalice. You'll need at least Wisdom 12 early on (so your bonus spell can be Protection from Evil, a requirement for the PrC). Adding a 5th level of ranger (at 20th-level) would improve your favored enemy bonus by another +2. Although, adding a level of a Tome of Battle class at 20th-level might also be a great idea.
Along the way, pick up Divine Might (if you have a good Cha) and Extra Turning as well if you get the former, and definitely get Devoted Tracker. Other nice feats: Power Attack, and Weapon Focus and Improved Critical with weapon of choice.
No doubt other people will have extra feat suggestions.

[Bran 637]

Capt. Sav-A-Hoe wrote:

I am running a militant paladin/cleric of St.Cuthbert who is focusing on demon hunting. I need some help with a prestige class and the feats list first-twenty. I am also going to ask our DM if I can have a Legacy Holy avenger.

One of my player in the SCAP (set in FR) plays an Aasimar Chultan Ranger1/Fighter2/Paladin of Ubtao 5/Knight of the Chalice 1 wielding a heavy pick and a shield whose favored enemies are evil outsiders. With smart feat-picking he's doing something like 2d6+1d4+5 with every attack and has AC32 when using Divine Shield. A great PC all in all with a good set of skills thanks to his 1st level in the Ranger class. He really doesn't need a holy avenger to be dangerous when demons skulk around :))

Bran.

[Capt. Sav-A-Hoe]

Thank you for all the help. I think that I am going to go with a 7th level Human Cleric of St. Cuthbert (Domains Law and Destruction)/3rd level paladin/10th Knight of the Chalice.
He carries a masterwork cold-iron Maul with the symbol of St.Cuthbert on the head.

I wanted to have some who had almost a fanatics view and single purpose toward his life,which is why I went with a cleric and paladin. The Legacy Holy Avenger is a great way for a character to start of with an Iconic weapon that fits the look of the character from the start.

[ericthecleric]

Captain, another feat I should have mentioned is Practiced Spellcaster, from Complete Arcane and Complete Divine. If you get it for your cleric levels, then your caster level will be 11th (but have the spells of a 7th-level cleric). Much more effective.
Try also suggesting to your DM to see if you can ditch the KotC's spell list in exchange for "+1 divine spellcaster level" gained at even levels. That way, you'd eventually have a cleric with spells as a 12th-level cleric, caster level 16th.

[Capt. Sav-A-Hoe]

Thanks, Eric.
I am thinking of getting my friends to playing an all St. Cuthbert group. So far we have cleric/paladin/KotC, warmage/favored soul/mystic theurge, bard/Seeker of the song, ranger/cleric/KotC(TWO-WEAPON),and ranger/cleric/Kotc(ranged). The healing spells alone should get us through anything.

[ericthecleric]

Some observations about your proposed party to help make it more rounded.
The obvious biggy is that you have no rogue, ie. no-one can disable traps. Personally, I’d ditch the bard in favour of an elf rogue, maxing out Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable Traps, Gather Information, Listen, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot. If you have the Miniatures Handbook and Player’s Handbook II, I’d also add a level each in Marshal (getting Motivate Charisma) and Dragon Shaman (getting Vigor).
If the rogue’s Charisma is 20 (which it could be, later on), that means his Charisma-based skills gain a +5 circumstance bonus, AND he get Skill Focus (Diplomacy) from the first marshal level.
The Vigor aura will ensure that the party is almost never below half hit points, as long as you have time to rest.
This way, there will be someone who can: easily talk their way out of trouble, find traps, gain allies where necessary, gather information, more find secret doors, and ensure healing spells aren’t wasted as well as the other benefits.

The second problem is that there’s little arcane versatility. Personally, I’d swap warmage for sorcerer, because a sorcerer can have a greater variety of spells (including utility spells and handy buffs), but that’s just me. I think the reason warmage is there is so that the character doesn’t have to worry about armor. One way to get round this would be to have the rogue be a rogue/wizard/arcane trickster (the arcane trickster PrC is from the DMG), but if you do this make sure someone else gets the dragon shaman and marshal levels. Using wizard to meet the requirement for the PrC also helps with another potential problem, which is that I think Intelligence will otherwise be used as the dump stat for most PCs.

Lastly, I’d suggest the mystic theurge goes: warmage (or sorcerer) 3/favored soul3/mystic theurge10, with the last four levels going into favored soul. Even then, you’re still (just) missing out on someone capable of casting true resurrection.

Anyway, hope this helps.

[Dragonchess Player]

ericthecleric wrote:

Lastly, I'd suggest the mystic theurge goes: warmage (or sorcerer) 3/favored soul3/mystic theurge10, with the last four levels going into favored soul. Even then, you're still (just) missing out on someone capable of casting true resurrection.

That should be Warmage (or Sorcerer) 4/Favored Soul 4/Mystic Theurge 10 (must be able to cast 2nd level arcane and divine spells to qualify for the Mystic Theurge PrC).

As far as balancing the party, I'd recommend switching out the Bard or one of the Knights of the Chalice for a Slayer of Domiel (BoED). The party is very focused on combat and divine power, but three Knights of the Chalice might be a bit too much focus (unless you are going to run a game where fighting evil outsiders is the central plot element). Some other PrCs to look at might be (BoED) Beloved of Valarian, Celestial Mystic, Exalted Arcanist, Fist of Raziel, Stalker of Kharash, Troubadour of Stars (if the group can handle the Law/Chaos tension), Vassal of Bahamut, (CAd) Daggerspell Mage, Fochlucan Lyrist, Shadowbane Inquisitor, Shadowbane Stalker, (CAr) Sublime Chord, (CD) Consecrated Harrier, Divine Crusader, Hospitaler, Radiant Servant (if undead will make frequent appearances), Rainbow Servant, Sacred Exorcist, Shining Blade, (CW) Hunter of the Dead (again, if undead are frequent), Spellsword, War Chanter, (DMG) Arcane Trickster (as mentioned), Eldritch Knight, and Thaumaturgist (a Cleric 3/Wizard (Conjurer) 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Thaumaturgist 4 is a nasty 20th level character).

[ericthecleric]

DP, you’re right about the level 4 thing (d’oh!).
I also thought that 3 KotC’s was maybe a bit much, but maybe they’re about to play Savage Tide and want to be especially strong against fiends.

[Dragonchess Player]

Capt. Sav-A-Hoe wrote:

Thanks, Eric.

I am thinking of getting my friends to playing an all St. Cuthbert group. So far we have cleric/paladin/KotC, warmage/favored soul/mystic theurge, bard/Seeker of the song, ranger/cleric/KotC(TWO-WEAPON),and ranger/cleric/Kotc(ranged). The healing spells alone should get us through anything.

I'd recommend the following alternate party (shown at 20th):

NG Bard 8/Exalted Arcanist 2/Seeker of the Song 10
NG Cleric (Boccob; Knowledge, Magic) 3/Wizard (Conjurer; Rapid Summoning variant from UA)/Mystic Theurge 10/Thaumaturgist 4
LG Fighter or Ranger 2/Cleric (Ehlonna; Good and Sun) 8/Fist of Raziel 10 (with the Ranged Smite Evil exalted feat from BoED)
LG Ranger 1/Paladin 10/Knight of the Chalice 9 (with the Nemesis exalted feat from BoED)
LG Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 5/Slayer of Domiel 10

An all St. Cuthbert group would have to switch the Mystic Theurge for something else (Battle Sorcerer from UA?) and change the Fist of Raziel to Cleric (St. Cuthbert) 8/Fist of Raziel 10/Hierophant 2 or Favored Soul (St. Cuthbert) 10/Fist of Raziel 10.

[Capt. Sav-A-Hoe]

Eric is right. We are about to start the Savage Tide. My friends and I are big Warhammer 40k players and we wanted to play a D&D campaign.
So we decided to play a young Inquisitor and Retinue. So, each character is more pictured in our mind than making the best group. The Bard/seeker of the Song is the constant street preacher.
You were also right about Warmage and armor, but the fluff of the warmage fits better. I know we are mage short. I was hoping that the bard can pick up were the rogue left off. We may change some of the ranger to scouts instead.

We are only using books from the basic handbooks which is all we have.

[ericthecleric]

I'm hoping to DM Savage Tide in 2007, and from what i've read of it so far, it's fantastic, so I hope that you really enjoy playing it.
Diplomacy shouldn't be neglected (that's all I'm gonna' say without giving any spoilers), but you need physical might also.

[Arctaris]

I mean no offense to anyone here when I say, in my opinion as a chaotic, irreversnt rogue, that paladins suck. On topic however, from a strictly tactical point of view I suggest a Paladin 10/Cleric 5/Shadowbane Inquisitor 5.

[Dragonchess Player]

Arctaris wrote:

I mean no offense to anyone here when I say, in my opinion as a chaotic, irreversnt rogue, that paladins suck. On topic however, from a strictly tactical point of view I suggest a Paladin 10/Cleric 5/Shadowbane Inquisitor 5.

You'd need at least one level as a rogue. From CAd, pg. 68:

To qualify to become a shadowbane inquisitor, a character must fulfill the following requirements:
Alignment: Lawful Good
Base Attack: +5
Skills: Gather Information 4 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 2 ranks, Sense Motive 8 ranks
Feats: Power Attack
Special: Detect Evil class feature or ability to cast Detect Evil as a divine spell
Special: Turn Undead class feature
Special: Sneak Attack class feature

Anyway, Knight of the Chalice is better against evil outsiders than Shadowbane Inquisitor. Shadowbane Inquisitor works better in a urban environment with lots of intrigue and a variety of evil foes.

[Dragonchess Player]

On the note of alternate paladins, how about a halfling Rogue 3/Paladin 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10/Pious Templar 3? BAB +19 (+20 counting size), Damage Reduction (OK, only 1/-), Evasion AND Mettle, with +1 on all saves as a halfling AND +Cha mod on all saves from Divine Grace, Smite (Evil 2x/day, any creature 3x/day), Sneak Attack +5d6, and Weapon Specialization. Not much in the way of spells, though.

[Arctaris]

I'm sorry about the error in my last post, I guess my mind just left me for a moment there. How about a Knight 5/Cleric 5/Paladin 10?

[Dragonchess Player]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

On the note of alternate paladins, how about a halfling Rogue 3/Paladin 4/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10/Pious Templar 3? BAB +19 (+20 counting size), Damage Reduction (OK, only 1/-), Evasion AND Mettle, with +1 on all saves as a halfling AND +Cha mod on all saves from Divine Grace, Smite (Evil 2x/day, any creature 3x/day), Sneak Attack +5d6, and Weapon Specialization. Not much in the way of spells, though.

For feat selection I was thinking Divine Might (CW), Extra Smiting (CW), Improved Smiting (CD), Improved Sunder*, Power Attack, True Believer (CD), Weapon Focus (favored), Weapon Specialization (favored)*; the last feat would be either Greater Resiliency (CW) or Monkey Grip (CW).

*-free feats

[Molech]

I'm sure you all wanted to know: I hate Prestige Classes. Bring back the Kits from 2E.

-W. E. Ray