Question Re: Magus and True Strike


Advice


A Magus can cast True Strike and then hit at +18 (+20 for the spell, -2 for attacking "off-hand" while casting) with no miss chance for concealment.

So, my question: would it be worthwhile for a magus to invest in Power Attack and Combat Expertise?

At 6th level the magus could use True Strike to attack with a +14 bonus (+20 -2 off-hand -2 Power Attack -2 Combat expertise) while gaining an additional +2 to AC for one round and +4 to damage. At 11th level that become a +10 bonus to hit, +3 to AC and +6 to damage. By this time the magus would be able to re-use this several times per day by burning AP points to re-cast True Strike.

Is this a plausible build for a magus?

Doug M.


It's an option, to be sure.

In all honesty, I make use of true strike + power attack when playing my own magus, but I have to admit that I ended up deciding I couldn't justify combat expertise when I was thinking about it. It's simply easier and more workable (to my mind) to utilize spells for the AC bonus directly (or to negate hits entirely, such as mirror image/displacement), and to spend the feat on any number of other valid options.

You may want to consider a combat maneuver feat, since some combat maneuvers can receive the benefit of true strike having been cast.


DreamAtelier wrote:


You may want to consider a combat maneuver feat, since some combat maneuvers can receive the benefit of true strike having been cast.

Say more, tell how. Disarm? Sunder?

Doug M.


First thing on google:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/doesTrueStrikeAddToTripSunderGrapple

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http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html

Combat Maneuver Bonus: Each character and creature has a Combat Maneuver Bonus (or CMB) that represents its skill at performing combat maneuvers. A creature's CMB is determined using the following formula:

CMB = Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier

Creatures that are size Tiny or smaller use their Dexterity modifier in place of their Strength modifier to determine their CMB. The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Bonus is as follows: Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8. Some feats and abilities grant a bonus to your CMB when performing specific maneuvers.

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True Strike

School divination; Level sorcerer/wizard 1

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, F (small wooden replica of an archery target)

Range personal

Target you

Duration see text

You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.

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Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

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Rules seem pretty clear. Looked it up because I wanted to know and seemed rude not to post up my findings.

Need to read each maneuver to see if its an attack action. However I have to go to work so hopefully you (or someone else) will post it up. :)


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

A Magus can cast True Strike and then hit at +18 (+20 for the spell, -2 for attacking "off-hand" while casting) with no miss chance for concealment.

So, my question: would it be worthwhile for a magus to invest in Power Attack and Combat Expertise?

At 6th level the magus could use True Strike to attack with a +14 bonus (+20 -2 off-hand -2 Power Attack -2 Combat expertise) while gaining an additional +2 to AC for one round and +4 to damage. At 11th level that become a +10 bonus to hit, +3 to AC and +6 to damage. By this time the magus would be able to re-use this several times per day by burning AP points to re-cast True Strike.

Is this a plausible build for a magus?

Doug M.

Sure you can do that. But true strike essentially eats an entire round and only works for a single attack. So if you REALLY have to hit, it's great (though you still fail on a natural 1).

I found it not to be worth it with my other martial/arcane characters to justify it. Things look different at level 15 though: quickened perfect spell true strike every round is nasty :-)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

A Magus can cast True Strike and then hit at +18 (+20 for the spell, -2 for attacking "off-hand" while casting) with no miss chance for concealment.

So, my question: would it be worthwhile for a magus to invest in Power Attack and Combat Expertise?

At 6th level the magus could use True Strike to attack with a +14 bonus (+20 -2 off-hand -2 Power Attack -2 Combat expertise) while gaining an additional +2 to AC for one round and +4 to damage. At 11th level that become a +10 bonus to hit, +3 to AC and +6 to damage. By this time the magus would be able to re-use this several times per day by burning AP points to re-cast True Strike.

Is this a plausible build for a magus?

Doug M.

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to play a magus as a somewhat fighter filling up his gaps with magic, thats a valid way to go.

On the other hand, there all those nice neat blasty spells especially as you go up in levels where things like intensified shocking grasp, and fire snake might start looking as more attractive things to do with your action economy.

Feat investments are a permanent choice so you want to make sure that you get long term payback from the investment.

Also, Power Attack and Combat Expertise seem somewht antithetical as feat choices. Personally I think there are far more interesting things to do with Combat Expertise on someone as Int heavy as a magus, especially if you're going the Staff Magus archetype.


Lightbulb helpfully referenced all the rules materials which are used to support the idea, so that leaves me with the far shorter post of simply answering which combat maneuvers qualify for using the trick with.

By my reckoning, the following maneuvers are definitely possible: Bull rush, Disarm, Sunder, and Trip. All of them explicitly are described as being part of an attack action, which means that you're definitely making an attack roll when you use them.

The following maneuvers should never qualify for use with True Strike: Feint (functions off a skill check, which is a different mechanic than an attack roll. Of course, there's almost no circumstance where you'd ever want to perform this maneuver with true strike anyways).

Everything else falls somewhere in a grey zone. Some of them don't say you're making an attack action, which a DM could easily claim means you're not making an attack roll. I personally believe that to be utter BS myself, but it's worth discussing with the DM at your table before starting a sideline discussion. Some are simply exceptionally awkward to rationalize (steal and reposition, for instance). Of course, the generic rules say that all combat maneuvers are attack rolls, but that seems at odds with the demonstrable fact that feinting is a combat maneuver, but is definitely not an attack roll.

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