Anyone notice that the mithril shirt is much better than the elven chain in both stats and price? Not only does it have a higher dex bonus, no armor check penalty, and a less arcane failure percentage, but it also costs about a quarter of the price. My blighter player brought this to my attention (looking for it while playing one of his other characters). I was wondering if this was a typographical error or what the bonus to elven chain is that he or I must be missing.
Yes, I suppose that the Elven Chain was included in the DMG just out of nostalgia or to pay respect to this age-old name of the fantasy RPG world.
But the way the rules work, the "real" Elven Chain (in terms of mythical efficiency) is a Mithral Chainshirt and not a Mithral Chainmail.
Bocklin
The reason for the discrepancy in price is that light mithral armour costs an extra 1,000gp while medium costs an extra 4,000gp. The logic behind this is that Mithral makes armour 1 'type' lighter so it should be more expensive for 'heavier' armour types. In game the logic is it takes more mithral to make these other armours. IMO both Mithral and chain shirts are unbalanced in that they are too good. When you combine them this problem is exacerbated.
The reason for the discrepancy in price is that light mithral armour costs an extra 1,000gp while medium costs an extra 4,000gp. The logic behind this is that Mithral makes armour 1 'type' lighter so it should be more expensive for 'heavier' armour types. In game the logic is it takes more mithral to make these other armours. IMO both Mithral and chain shirts are unbalanced in that they are too good. When you combine them this problem is exacerbated.
I don't think its really possible to combine them. Elven Chain, by the description givin in the DMG, is already made of Mithral. Be a pretty leniant DM that would allow a player to stack mithral on top of mithral.
That said the idea of mithral stacking on elven chain to be 'real' elven chain as an option in ones home campaign sure does make the armour special. Might want to change the cost however - or maybe make the item only available as a gift from grateful elves.
I think he meant combining chain shirt and mithral.
Funny timing btw, we discovered this just last night in my group as well. The halfling rogue spends 2 days pimping his fancy dragon chess set and buying rounds of expensive wine to find someone willing to hook him up with some elven chain.. until the cleric player pipes up with the mithral chain-shirt alternative.
Well, we see elven chain as an elven racial item. Hard to get alhold of unless your an elf. However, we see the dwarves and mithral in pretty much the same way.
IMO both Mithral and chain shirts are unbalanced in that they are too good.
Yeah, and even more so when you look at the "armored mage" variant class feature. In fact, I can think of maybe one armor-wearing character in any campaign that wears anything except a chain shirt. That's a tip-off right there... much like the 3.0e "1 hr/level" duration for bull's strength, et al., which led to a 100% chance of all casters preparing all of those spells all of the time.
Lordy Lordy the Mithral chain shirt. My Rouge/Wizard/Blood Mage never leaves home without his.
Fakey! Fakey! You're needed!
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Fakey! Fakey! You're needed!
What?! Huh!? Oh. Errr-huummmm.
Phox-Puka!
INFIDEL!!! DEFILER!!! MANGLER OF THE CORE CLASS!!! R-O-U-G-E is a lovely shade of red, not a halfling's favored class. R-O-U-G-E is a type of make-up, not a stealthy rake with a penchant for larcenous acts! R-O-G-U-E is the word you meant to use. Know that heretofor ye shalt not mispell core classes or though shalt be smitten by The False One and forced to endure the Vicious Vocabulary Vexation of Vestiferses.
Ye of little vernacular take heed.
FH (propetualator of diacabulation)
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Maybe he's one of them thar Red Wizards of Thay.
Get your facts together before you chew them suckers out, boah!And Saern,....nobody likes a tattletail, boah.
;)
I am not concerned, any wizard who switches letters during the casting of their spell is bound to explode themselves long before they could harm the likes of me!
And Heathy is right Saern, nobody likes a tattle-tail!*Saern gets promotion packet for position of Lord-High Squaficilator of Vocabulary with a hearty letter of thanks from The False One*
FH (the raise to go with the position is 1/2 a shilling per week, reviews to be performed every 6 months)
I always thought they were the same thing until this game edition came out and confused the issue. I have always played humans make steel and less; elves mithral and less, dwarves adamantium and less. Elves dont share the secret of mithral with anyone and dwaves dont share the secret of mithral or adamantium with anyone and very few elves and dwarves know these secrets anyway.
I do agree that the given bonuses are obscure, but in my game the mithral shirt is a superior and rare crafted dwarven item and the elven chain is an elven item so the bonuses reflect the style and skill of the individual race methods of crafting.
hehe the rouge rogue strikes again
Huzzah! 8P
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What?! Huh!? Oh. Errr-huummmm.Phox-Puka!
INFIDEL!!! DEFILER!!! MANGLER OF THE CORE CLASS!!! R-O-U-G-E is a lovely shade of red, not a halfling's favored class. R-O-U-G-E is a type of make-up, not a stealthy rake with a penchant for larcenous acts! R-O-G-U-E is the word you meant to use. Know that heretofor ye shalt not mispell core classes or though shalt be smitten by The False One and forced to endure the Vicious Vocabulary Vexation of Vestiferses.
Ye of little vernacular take heed.FH (propetualator of diacabulation)
While of course I support your effort to correct the use of both "rouge" and "rogue", I must decry your lack of pronoun/verb agreement. "Ye" is a second-person plural pronoun*, while "shalt" is a second-person singular verb. "Thou shalt" is correct; "ye shall" is correct; "ye shalt" and "thou shall" are both abominations.
Note that I am the grammer** police, not the spelling police; I have a certificate and everything. Though someone should probably place a call to that other force really soon.
8-)
* As used here. There is another commonly used "ye", where the "y" is used by the typographically deficient instead of a thorn ("Þ"). That sort of "ye" is pronounced "the". (Do not even get me started on the gratuitous use of a terminal "e" to make something look "olde". Really.)
** Yes, I know. That's why it's funny. (If you don't know what this refers to, you are definitely not the spelling police.)
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Anyone notice that the mithril shirt is much better than the elven chain in both stats and price? Not only does it have a higher dex bonus, no armor check penalty, and a less arcane failure percentage, but it also costs about a quarter of the price. My blighter player brought this to my attention (looking for it while playing one of his other characters). I was wondering if this was a typographical error or what the bonus to elven chain is that he or I must be missing.
First of all, Elven Chain = Mithral Chain Mail. This is consistent with price, stats, etc.
I hadn't really broken it down before --
Elven Chain/Mithral Chain Mail
AC Bonus -- +5
Move -- 30 ft.
Arcane Spell Failure -- 20%
Max Dex -- +4
Armor Type -- Light
Armor Check Penalty -- -2
Cost -- 4,150 gp
Chain Shirt (NON-mithral type)
AC Bonus -- +4
Move -- 30 ft.
Arcane Spell Failure -- 20%
Max Dex -- +4
Armor Type -- Light
Armor Check Penalty -- -2
Cost -- 100 gp
As far as the stats are concerned -- the only difference between Elven Chain and a Chain Shirt is +1 AC bonus and 4,050 gp value.
And for what it's worth...
Mithral Chain Shirt
AC Bonus -- +4
Move -- 30 ft.
Arcane Spell Failure -- 10%
Max Dex -- +6
Armor Type -- Light
Armor Check Penalty -- 0
Cost -- 1,100 gp
So, I agree. If available, the Mithral Shirt is the best use of your gold. However, just because it exists in the DMG, doesn't mean that it is easily obtained.
It becomes less of a no-brainer when you start enchanting it.
+2 Mithril Shirt = 6 Armor = 5,100 gp
+1 Elven Chain = 6 Armor = 5,150 gp
Mithril Shirt wins.
+3 Mithril Shirt = 7 Armor = 10,100 gp
+2 Elven Chain = 7 Armor = 8,150 gp
Elven Chain wins (unless you have an obscene dexterity)
However, that said, you're always better off with a mithril breastplate then Elven Chain, since the 50 gp difference in cost between a mithril breastplate and elven chain is pretty irrelevant once you're talking about something costing upwards of 8k.