RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
How do you handle it if an NPC uses these magic words? Wish is a horribly complicated thing to judge if you above the standard effects, and any NPC with wish is an open invitation to DM fiat.
More specifically, since its usually flawed when used above its default abilities, you as the DM can usually come up with an interesting way to twist the wish... but it becomes progressively harder if both improve and hose your own challange.
For example: A BBEG the (high-level) group faces is surprised by the group storming into his throne room. He is alone, and unbuffed - the party is all suited up with tons of buffs and equipment. He uses his ring of three wishes, stating "I wish your magic to fail you". This would usually translate to a Mage's Disjunction... but that's a 9th level spell. So some kind of flaw must be worked into the wish. But how do you work out just what is reasonable without seeming (or even being) arbitrary?
Alternatively, do your villains ever use wish at all?
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
"I wish your magic to fail you". This would usually translate to a Mage's Disjunction... but that's a 9th level spell. So some kind of flaw must be worked into the wish. But how do you work out just what is reasonable without seeming (or even being) arbitrary?
I tend to avoid running games of such advanced level as to make things like wish available to PCs or NPCs, but since you asked, I'll give you my ideas.
First of all, the way your NPC phrased his wish in your example sounds like a perfect candidate for an anti-magic field to encompass the entire room (and that's only a 6th-level spell, with a Metamagic effect to widen it).
Secondly, if the NPCs have access to wish, the PCs should as well. Wish is a very powerful spell, as we all know, but also a good tool for an NPCs hubris to come crashing down on him. If the NPC is using the spell beyond its 'standard' uses, make the 'flaws' evident to the PCs somehow. Perhaps he wished for the wisdom of a dragon but was also blessed with their characteristic greed and now finds himself going out of his way to accrue more wealth for himself. When the PCs find out about this, they might set up some valuable cargo to be transported nearby as 'bait' to lure him into battling them on THEIR terms.
There are many options for how to twist this but, in the end, pick the option that suits your campaign on your players best.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
For example: A BBEG the (high-level) group faces is surprised by the group storming into his throne room. He is alone, and unbuffed - the party is all suited up with tons of buffs and equipment. He uses his ring of three wishes, stating "I wish your magic to fail you". This would usually translate to a Mage's Disjunction... but that's a 9th level spell. So some kind of flaw must be worked into the wish. But how do you work out just what is reasonable without seeming (or even being) arbitrary?
Hmmm...how about doing a greater dispel magic on each and everyone of them (i.e., multiple targeted greater dispel magics).
|
|
I'd agree with the area greater dispel magic concept as well. The wording of the wish was "YOUR MAGIC FAIL", so it would be restricted to the party the being was facing, and not something all-encompassing like an antimagic field.
The other DMs I play with and myself tend to treat magic like water or electricity; it follows the path of least resistance. Poorly worded wishes are "corrupted" in the simplest way possible, which also makes it easier for the DM to adjucate what occurs. Find the easiest way to fulfill the wish, and you will find it a lot easier to handle wish spells in your campaign.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
My most important concern is seeming arbitrary in my judgement. After all, i am even less impartial in this case than otherwise. Somehow making the flaws evident probably helps. I guess one way would be to have some "contigency wishes" and their effects ironed out before.
As for the concrete example, i would usually also opt for a cascade of "greater dispel", but on a more general principle, i am sorely tempted to limit wish to the "standard uses" only for NPCs. However this is quite a bit off its potential.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
My most important concern is seeming arbitrary in my judgement. After all, i am even less impartial in this case than otherwise. Somehow making the flaws evident probably helps. I guess one way would be to have some "contigency wishes" and their effects ironed out before.
As for the concrete example, i would usually also opt for a cascade of "greater dispel", but on a more general principle, i am sorely tempted to limit wish to the "standard uses" only for NPCs. However this is quite a bit off its potential.
Hmmm...have you checked the spell compendium? It seems like there are a number of good dispels at various levels in that book. The other thing I can think to do is to look at the split ray feat and see how many levels it adds. It's not a perfect fit, but if you could apply that metamagic feat to GDM and still come out under the level limits of wish, you've got a pretty good argument for doing it that way.
Thammuz - I love that idea. Very simple and fairly intuitive. Much better than the old fashioned interpret-the-wish-to-screw-the-players method of adjudicating the spell.
In my game I do not allow the wish spell. For the most part its more trouble than its worth. If a PC wishes for something abstract or complicated then we go through the routine of "how the tricky DM will twist the words around" or he/she can simply wish to duplicate some spells, which to me seems like a rip. Sure you can wish for abilities scores to go up but by that level the PCs already own (or make) magic items that can do that.
Also, I've always felt a wish should be a rare thing that is capable of more than a standard wish spell. If I hand out a ring of 3 wishes say, my players know they need to be very careful and selective with it because they know its a once in a lifetime thing. I don't allow them to kill gods with it or anything but I'm OK with them wishing for a powerful magic item or going a little further than a 9th level spell. To me, thats a wish and yeah, sometimes there are consequences for what you wish for...all depends on the situation. I think the wish spell takes the mystique out of "a wish".
What's wrong with seeming to be (or being) arbitrary? It depends on your players. Wish is a powerful spell and is extremely rare in my game. Now that you mention it, I've never had a villian use a wish (ooh, my evil DM brain is spinning with the possibilities). I agree with the last poster, though, putting too many restraints on the spell ruins its mystique. It's one of those areas of fantasy that I allow a large amount of latitude, just to keep it fantastic. If I felt the players were trying to take advantage of me or that their idea for the spell's fulfillment would overly disrupt the game, I would adjust the consequences. Otherwise, I let them have fun with it and don't worry too much over how closer it matches the RAW.
Let me get the Dungeon Community's opinion on this quandry I must make a ruling on:
I am on the second to last module for Age of Worms (James Jacobs Dragotha module), and I have 6 20th Level PCs whom are quite powerful. They know up front that there will be no Epic Level progression.
The player of a 20th Level Wizard (whom the PC fashions herself wearing a white dragon hide like skin) self-described ice-princess wants to cast a "Wish" spell to become a half-dragon. Needless to say, this confers special abilities and ability adjustments with the end result being an ECL +3 if I recall. Frankly this still makes her no more powerful (in my opinion as a DM) than other player's PCs around her as they are twinked to the Nth degree and the player is ultra-conservative (using only the Spell Compendium on rare occasions).
I am leaning toward allowing the wish, but letting the player know that I will not allow further ability modifying wishes in the future. Whats everyone's take on that?
|
I guess that I look at the guidelines of wish less as what the spell can do, that what it can do without the GM having fun twisting it around.
Heck, twisting a poorly thought out wish is one of the best parts of high level campaigning.
And I really like that clerics have their own version now in Miracle.
Best use of a Wish/ Miracle ever: We were running the Bastion of Broken Souls, and that half demon/ half devil marilith thingy had teleported away with the cleric. The party had to go rescue him from her lair. He's unarmed, nekked as a jay, and with no spell components. When he hears the party coming he uses Miracle......to bring him his holy symbol. With that he was back in the fight.