There is one thing that probably tips the balance to TWF in game if you allow it into your games: Complete Adventurers Oversize Two Weapon Fighting feat, allowing you to wield a one handed weapon in your off hand as if it were a light weapon. Potentially quite nasty if you also have exotic weapon proficiency (bastard sword) or (dwarven waraxe) feat(s)
However, when you have weapon enhancements or stuff like sneak attack that works on a per-hit basis, more hits is better.
Okay...perhaps my mind has failed me, but I could have sworn that only the first hit out of a series of hits was allowed to be a sneak attack. Was this changed from 3.0 to 3.5? The thought of a rogue getting 6 or 7 sneak attacks in a round against a target is just...frightening to me. The potential to do 54d6 damage plus 9 times strength, plus 6 times anything from enhancement is just...wrong somehow. (This would be with a level 16 rogue/4 fighter with two short swords.)
Perhaps I'm confused?
i believe the post is assuming flanking, or another situation where sneak attack can continually apply (greater invisibility comes to mind), regardless of how many attacks are used. yes, its brutal, but also about the only time a rogue can do serious damage of that magnitude.
tog
I talked about the con of two handed sword on a thread about 6 months back; prolly called two handed; you might search for it; basically, there are almost no feats or specialist stuff you can do for a two handed sword; there is a couple for pole arm; a whole lot for light fighting and weapon in two hands, but basically, there are no greatsword specialists or feats for example. Sure, you can take power attack and cleave, but so can anyone with any weapon.
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I talked about the con of two handed sword on a thread about 6 months back; prolly called two handed; you might search for it; basically, there are almost no feats or specialist stuff you can do for a two handed sword; there is a couple for pole arm; a whole lot for light fighting and weapon in two hands, but basically, there are no greatsword specialists or feats for example. Sure, you can take power attack and cleave, but so can anyone with any weapon.
That's cool, because they exist in real life...
I'm not the expert on't but I've heard of "half-swording."I think that's what it's called--you grip the hilt with one hand and halfway down the blade with the other, and use the sword like a spear to punch through plate mail.
yep; that is true; in real life two handed sword were not usually sharpened in the first 18 inches from the hilt to do just that; provide more leverage.
considering many other games have 2h sword specialists; I was actually surprized by this gap in this game; hence my other thread, but nobody agreed or even cared I guess. No sword masters of Hoeth look alikes possible.
edit: I have yet to find among the plethora of combat styles one for 2h sword either.
I'm playing a dervish now with dual scimitars. I find the advantages of two weapon fighting are that much better when using twin weapons. Weapon spec and focus on each hand makes a big difference in melee capability.
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considering many other games have 2h sword specialists; I was actually surprized by this gap in this game;
Actually, I'm wondering how a 2h weapon specialist makes any sense above and beyond what feats like Power Attack, Cleave, and things of that nature already allow. What would you add? 2h Weapon Defense? How does that make sense? 2h weapons are too slow to be used as an effective defensive weapon. Things like Weapon Specialization enhance damage and Power Attack gives 2h weapons ungodly damage potential already. Do you really need a feat or prestige class to make it WORSE? I'm willing to hear your ideas for what a '2h weapon specialist' would feature because I can't think of anything myself.
Okay...perhaps my mind has failed me, but I could have sworn that only the first hit out of a series of hits was allowed to be a sneak attack. Perhaps I'm confused?
Not unless I am, too... although I don't see it in the SRD.
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Okay...perhaps my mind has failed me, but I could have sworn that only the first hit out of a series of hits was allowed to be a sneak attack. Perhaps I'm confused?Not unless I am, too... although I don't see it in the SRD.
I'm pretty sure you are thinking of characters using Invisibility after the start of combat. In that case, the invisibility goes away as soon as you attack, so only the first attack gets sneak damage unless there is another reason. Flanking gives you the extra damage on each hit, and attacking a flatfooted opponent before surprise wears off does the same. (RAW)
I think the last is somewhat nonsensical, but those are the rules.
considering many other games have 2h sword specialists; I was actually surprized by this gap in this game;Actually, I'm wondering how a 2h weapon specialist makes any sense above and beyond what feats like Power Attack, Cleave, and things of that nature already allow. What would you add? 2h Weapon Defense? How does that make sense? 2h weapons are too slow to be used as an effective defensive weapon. Things like Weapon Specialization enhance damage and Power Attack gives 2h weapons ungodly damage potential already. Do you really need a feat or prestige class to make it WORSE? I'm willing to hear your ideas for what a '2h weapon specialist' would feature because I can't think of anything myself.
Well okay:
Bonuses to disarm
Bonuses to resist being disarmed
Bonuses to sunder
Bonuses to defense (probably melee attacks only -not missiles)
Ability to trip (which I see as a whole class of techniques to drop someone and cause them to lose balance - not just "trip")
Bonuses to damage (probably in specific situations)
Additional attack as a follow-up to a critical hit
Well thats a start - certainly there are lots of 2H specialists (most kendo - at least that I have seen which is admittedly limited - has been 2H) and they have some very effective defense - certainly one could specialize in that as easily as one could learn special defensive techniques with two weapons. besides its a fantasy game with ABSURDLY strong characters etc.
How many times does anyone really get sundered; tripped or disarmed? Maybe it is just our games, but I havent seen this happen in quite a few years; guess everyone figures why waste time, just kill the guy; most opponents are down in one or two rounds anyway. A bonus that isnt a bonus, well, isnt a bonus. I am sure these things come up; but most peeps build there characters around combat feats, sytles and bonuses. I can't really see anyone going heavy into trip and sunder is probably only useful for a boss mob type; even then I am suspect. Hmm, I am really curious about this now; anyone heavy into two handed and trip, sunder, and disarm?
How many times does anyone really get sundered; tripped or disarmed? Maybe it is just our games, but I havent seen this happen in quite a few years; guess everyone figures why waste time, just kill the guy; most opponents are down in one or two rounds anyway. A bonus that isnt a bonus, well, isnt a bonus. I am sure these things come up; but most peeps build there characters around combat feats, sytles and bonuses. I can't really see anyone going heavy into trip and sunder is probably only useful for a boss mob type; even then I am suspect. Hmm, I am really curious about this now; anyone heavy into two handed and trip, sunder, and disarm?
Most times people go for the kill - no question, but thats up to what the DM sets up - if the townsfolk are possessed, killing them maybe bad - if the weapon is evil breaking it might be a higher priority than the bad guy, if the noble that hired the party is serving has been tricked into thinking you are the foe - killing him might not be the way to go, and if the character was really good at sundering he might do it more often - as written its tough to pull off - with the right feat tree it could become cool. In a hack and slash - sure you're right - if politics and relationships are key in your game - the ability to keep opponents alive (if only for questioning) could make such abilties a lot more useful.
You could also create feats to damage armor, mobility, my point was that there is just as much opportunity to create a cool 2H guy as a a 2W guy - and just as much historical stuff to support one (on both offense and defense).
How many times does anyone really get sundered; tripped or disarmed? Maybe it is just our games, but I havent seen this happen in quite a few years; guess everyone figures why waste time, just kill the guy; most opponents are down in one or two rounds anyway. A bonus that isnt a bonus, well, isnt a bonus. I am sure these things come up; but most peeps build there characters around combat feats, sytles and bonuses. I can't really see anyone going heavy into trip and sunder is probably only useful for a boss mob type; even then I am suspect. Hmm, I am really curious about this now; anyone heavy into two handed and trip, sunder, and disarm?
Obviously you have not had a player with improved trip and a spiked chain. Phenomenal combination. If the trip works you get a free attack in any case and then the opponent is prone (easier for everyone to hit) plus the opponent has to stand up – provoking attacks of opportunity and of course once he's standing he has used a move action so he can't use a full attack option. However Improved Trip is not an attack usually associated with a 2 handed weapon.
When conisdering fighting with a two handed weapon Improved Sunder certainly comes up in my games. Take out the BBEGs weapon - or the evil mages spell component pouch - and he is usually a lot easier to kill. In any case going on to Great Cleave, Greater Weapon Focus, Improved Weapon Specialization, Monkey Grip, Weapon Mastery etc. is certainly viable. Certainly I'm not about to go and add feats to make it even better. Its arguably already better then the other basic combat styles.