I've just read the STAP preview in dungeon #138 and it made me wonder: Are there no appearances of dragons in this adventure path? I couldn't imagine a whole campaign without any!
It is interesting that none are mentioned. I sure hope there are. Dragons are well...half of D&D. I was even considering turning the crested felldrake, Gut Tugger, into a wyrmling dragon.
If there are no dragons, I for one will be adding some.
Creative Director
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The strange thing about dragons is that when we do use them, there seems to be just as strong an outcry that by using lots of dragons the adventure somehow marginalizes them. In Shackled City, one of the more common complaints was that dragons should be the focus of an adventure, not just another monster encountered along the way. In Age of Worms, we had several folk complaining about the same thing. It's always struck me as a little strange that people would argue against the inclusion of the monsters that the game's named after.
In any event, there won't be many dragons in Savage Tide, but that's not to say that there won't be any. We've got no significant dragons in the outline, but we leave a fair amount of what goes on in each adventure to the authors, so it's certainly possible that we'll be seeing dragons in Savage Tide now and then.
It will be extremely disappointing if we don't see a SAVAGE dragon at some point in the AP.
I could definitely see some planar dragons or the sea serpents that appeared in Dragon a few issues back making an appearance in the later chapters.
Well, I know it's not quite as cool as black dragons swimming into the harbor to scuttle ships (I just love that idea Heathansson), but after seeing Gut Tugger, I'm planning on adding some more Felldrakes to my campaign. There is a sea elf settlement near my version of Sasserine, and I thought it would be neat to add some Crested Felldrakes with the amphibious template. My party has a druid from that community, and there is a ranger in the group as well - I may allow one to become a non-traditional animal companion (will probably make up a feat for that when I have time).
I'm not sure if I want to make Gut Tugger into this variant or just leave him be - I don't think it will impact the encounter with him and Rowyn either way.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
Maybe a dragon or two are amongst the allies you will be gathering later?
Last i checked the island had some black, green and reds. A golden clan (2 mature adult & 6 kids of various ages) dedicated to Io wouldnt hurt either, their main task being to make sure the cromatics dont missbehave too much.. and punish them when they do.
Certainly a few black ones could do awesome damage from underwater :D
The strange thing about dragons is that when we do use them, there seems to be just as strong an outcry that by using lots of dragons the adventure somehow marginalizes them. In Shackled City, one of the more common complaints was that dragons should be the focus of an adventure, not just another monster encountered along the way. In Age of Worms, we had several folk complaining about the same thing. It's always struck me as a little strange that people would argue against the inclusion of the monsters that the game's named after.
I think the real complain was about the randomness with which some of the dragons were treated (e.g. Gotrrod in SCAP). People believe that using dragons as random battle encounters along the way of the characters is just wrong, and I agree. Fighting dragons should be among the most memorable encounters. I wouldn't say that they have to be the focus of an entire adventure though. But if the dragon has its own goals and is in some way connected to the plot, they sure make very memorable villains (or allies).
How about a sea dragon, indeed? Are any of the authors present? :)
The strange thing about dragons is that when we do use them, there seems to be just as strong an outcry that by using lots of dragons the adventure somehow marginalizes them. In Shackled City, one of the more common complaints was that dragons should be the focus of an adventure, not just another monster encountered along the way. In Age of Worms, we had several folk complaining about the same thing. It's always struck me as a little strange that people would argue against the inclusion of the monsters that the game's named after.
In any event, there won't be many dragons in Savage Tide, but that's not to say that there won't be any. We've got no significant dragons in the outline, but we leave a fair amount of what goes on in each adventure to the authors, so it's certainly possible that we'll be seeing dragons in Savage Tide now and then.
Well, it's always been my view that dragons in D&D should be used conservatively. I've always thought that they're meant to be a rare, intimidating encounter. In some campaigns, though, like for instance The Sunless Citadel where you fight a dragon in the first module, they tend to lose that mystic, intimidating air that they're supposed to possess.
In some campaigns, though, like for instance The Sunless Citadel where you fight a dragon in the first module, they tend to lose that mystic, intimidating air that they're supposed to possess.
Not sure if anyone plays WoW, but I call this Dragonwhelp Syndrome. At fairly low levels you encounter very pathetic, stupid creatures called Dragon Whelps that are supposed to be dragons. No matter how bad ass the dragons get after that, the first impression is of these whelps and it sticks.
(You could also call this the Spyro Faux Pas.)
If you're a DM please think twice about introducing wyrmlings and other pathetic dragons to PCs at low levels. And make sure that ALL dragon encounters, regardless of level, are "very difficult" to "overwhelming".
I understand the viewpoint that dragons should always be a major encounter, and to some degree I agree with it. But I think they work fine as just a "random" encounter because for the players it's "Oh *!@!, it's a dragon!" I disagree that dragons should not be used as wyrmlings for low-level encounters. One of the best things about 3.5 dragons is that they work for adventurers at all levels.
I have an idea for a black dragon encounter on the way to the Isle, based on just a cool visual image. The set-up is that it is night, and storming. Periodically lightning illuminates the sky. Whichever character(s) are on watch would see a bolt of lightning illuminate the night sky and for that brief moment they see a black dragon. It goes dark again, then lightning again and they see the dragon once more. I think it should be a cool set-up for a dragon encounter.
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Creative Director
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You know... the more I think about it, the more I think that dragons having age categories is bad for dragons. Sure, it lest you use dragons in any adventure, but wouldn't it be just as easy to have several dozen types of different dragons of various levels? After all... very few other monsters in the game have such a strange age-category-based setup for advancement. Wouldn't it be better to, say, have the red dragon be a straight-up CR 18 monster, with an advancement line that would allow it to be advanced up from there? That way there'd be no problems with wimpier red dragons, and you'd pretty much always associate red dragons with CR 18 mayhem.
You're absolutely right. The dragon age categories are a sort of throwback to the times when monsters were not scaleable.
If you wanted a tougher gnoll you invented a new monster, the flind.
In 3.x that is no longer necessary, monsters can (relatively easily) be scaled, given class levels, etc. (Nowadays, if you want a tougher gnoll you make a fiendish half-troll gnoll ranger/dervish....... uh, I digress.)
We never see, say, 5HD fire giant children as the main monster, so why are immature dragons so common?
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Well, I know it's not quite as cool as black dragons swimming into the harbor to scuttle ships (I just love that idea Heathansson), but after seeing Gut Tugger, I'm planning on adding some more Felldrakes to my campaign.
I sort of came up with the idea, but someone else on an earlier thread in the STAP forum had the idea of a dragon swimming underwater to wreak havoc. I just went with it.
I think that's 5 "side treks" for Sasserine now...