Been A long time coming any clue as to when?
Been A long time coming any clue as to when?
I'd like to know that sames thing regarding Eberron conversions? C'mon guys. We've been patient...
Creative Director
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We're waiting for the layout of the conversions to come back to us so we can do our final round of editing on them, at which point they should be going up online ASAP. Since this week's mostly "Get Dragon off to press," things are tight...
In any event, I apologize for how long it's taking to get these up online, as well as for the Dungeon map & art supplements. We're moving as fast as we can on these things, but sometimes things get caught in the gears.
Been A long time coming any clue as to when?I'd like to know that sames thing regarding Eberron conversions? C'mon guys. We've been patient...
Just another reason to convert to Greyhawk...:)
Just another reason to convert to Greyhawk...:)
This is a little off topic, but has Greyhawk even been in print since the 1980's? I've often wondered why it is the default setting for 3rd Edition, but doesn't seem to be available for 3E.
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Creative Director
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This is a little off topic, but has Greyhawk even been in print since the 1980's? I've often wondered why it is the default setting for 3rd Edition, but doesn't seem to be available for 3E.
Just another reason to convert to Greyhawk...:)
Greyhawk's had numerous reinciarnations since the 80's; It's had at least two relaunches during 2nd edition in the 90s, and with 3rd Edition the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer was the first campaign setting product to be released for the new rules of the game. The Living Greyhawk RPGA campaign has well over ten thousand players, and that doesn't count the uncounted masses who still use the campaign for their home games.
As for why it's the default setting for 3rd edition, well... mostly becasue it's the OLDEST D&D setting, and because it cleaves the closest to the most popular style of D&D play, as inferred by the core rules. You'll note that whenever a proper noun like St. Cuthbert or Mordenkainen or Heward pops up as part of a religion or spell or magic item, those names are from Greyhawk. In a way, the Player's Handbook, DMG, and Monster Manual ARE the current incarnation of the Greyhawk setting.
As for Dungeon, all I can say is that whenever we do something really blatantly Greyhawk, the issues sell quite well, so strictly from a numbers viewpoint, it's good business sense for us to continue supporting the setting in the magazine, even if it doesn't have an extensive line of product support these days. Nostalgia is a powerful force.
i must argue here... i think a cool, well maintained, detailed, well supported background like FR is more important then just nostalgia.
i must argue here... i think a cool, well maintained, detailed, well supported background like FR is more important then just nostalgia.
FR was and always will be just too unweildy. yes there is a lot of very highly detailed info out there for it but that can create just as many problems as it solves, especially if you are playing with a rules lawyer.
the beauty of greyhawk has always been its adaptability. it also lets those who want to be just that little bit more creative do so. i guess at the end of the day it is much the same as who is your favourite Bond or Doctor Who... the one you experience first generally tends to be the one you go for.
i must argue here... i think a cool, well maintained, detailed, well supported background like FR is more important then just nostalgia.
Personally, I prefer Eberron or Greyhawk... and not for lack of trying. When they decided to put out the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting I was incredibly enthusiastic about it. But then it became the tack on setting, and gradually the quality of the add ons seemed to suffer.
Not that a lot of the current supplements for FR aren't cool, but I have a whole lot of trouble getting into the current supplements, to the point that I only own one beyond the current incarnation of the FR Campaign Setting.
I don't discount nostalgia, as I am an old school player who got into the game over 25 years ago.... but I am not in the 'everything new is bad' camp either. (Except truenamers from Tome of Magic. they're broken.)
- Ashavan
There just isn't enough information out there related to Greyhawk. I'm referring particularly to the lack of well defined organizations. When I make a character, I like to be able to fit them into the world like a peice of a puzzle. You can't do that with Greyhawk because the campaign isn't well defined. You can't do that with FR, either, because the FR lore is so convoluted. That's why I love Eberron.
Greyhawk's had numerous reinciarnations since the 80's; It's had at least two relaunches during 2nd edition in the 90s, and with 3rd Edition the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer was the first campaign setting product to be released for the new rules of the game. The Living Greyhawk RPGA campaign has well over ten thousand players, and that doesn't count the uncounted masses who still use the campaign for their home games.
Ah, I didn't know about the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer - I've never seen it in any game store, and I'm not an RPGA member, so I thought it was odd that WotC didn't publish the default setting.
As for Dungeon, all I can say is that whenever we do something really blatantly Greyhawk, the issues sell quite well, so strictly from a numbers viewpoint, it's good business sense for us to continue supporting the setting in the magazine, even if it doesn't have an extensive line of product support these days. Nostalgia is a powerful force.
Is it really nostalgia that makes Greyhawk adventures so popular or is it because Greyhawk (as I recall it from my old 1st Edition gazeteer) is so vague and generic that they are easily modified for any setting?
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FR was and always will be just too unweildy. yes there is a lot of very highly detailed info out there for it but that can create just as many problems as it solves, especially if you are playing with a rules lawyer.
Interesting - I don't see how a detailed setting causes problems. If you have someone quoting history or the latest novel at you, set your campaign in an area or a genre where that stuff doesn't matter. Rules lawyers are trouble, no matter what setting you play in, I would think.
Currently I'm running a Forgotten Realms campaign in the Wizards' Reach - it's a lightly published area, the novels don't hit there, I can freely use things from the Unapproachable East or the Heartlands since it's halfway.
But, I do have a soft spot in my heart for Greyhawk - it was my first real campaign setting through high school and university. I wish the info for Greyhawk out there wasn't so scattered. It isn't a generic setting at all!
There just isn't enough information out there related to Greyhawk. I'm referring particularly to the lack of well defined organizations. When I make a character, I like to be able to fit them into the world like a peice of a puzzle. You can't do that with Greyhawk because the campaign isn't well defined. You can't do that with FR, either, because the FR lore is so convoluted. That's why I love Eberron.
The "info" for Greyhawk is sparse...because it's *supposed* to be. Greyhawk is about -creating-, not about -buying-. If you talk to a half dozen different GH DM's, you'll get 9 different campaigns. If you talk to a half-dozen different FR DM's, you'll be lucky to get 2 diferent campaigns. The reason is simple; in 'high detail' campaigns, you have lots of, well, detail. Stuff like "NPC X has these stats...", and entire write ups of so-called 'mysterious organizations' that go into minute details. This basically means that DM's have to ignore/drop stuff to fit their campaigns. This is bad because other published things will assume that all that minutia is being used whole-cloth...so the DM has even more work to do. As the campaign progresses, the DM's personal touches will start to seriously conflict with what gets published, making new published material less and less useful.
Anyway, Greyhawk is about a DM and Players making it their own. If you want to "puzzle-piece" your character into the setting, do it. Ask your DM for specifics he has. If he doesn't have any, ask him if you can make some stuff up. Need a secretive guild of 'shadow mages'? Fine, write it up yourself, give it to the DM, and go to it! If you are more inclined to just forking over some $ to use something someone else created, without any input from your DM or yourself...then Ebberon or FR is probably more your style. :)
In any case, have fun! That's the whole point, right? :D
There just isn't enough information out there related to Greyhawk. I'm referring particularly to the lack of well defined organizations. When I make a character, I like to be able to fit them into the world like a peice of a puzzle. You can't do that with Greyhawk because the campaign isn't well defined. You can't do that with FR, either, because the FR lore is so convoluted. That's why I love Eberron.The "info" for Greyhawk is sparse...because it's *supposed* to be. Greyhawk is about -creating-, not about -buying-. If you talk to a half dozen different GH DM's, you'll get 9 different campaigns. If you talk to a half-dozen different FR DM's, you'll be lucky to get 2 diferent campaigns. The reason is simple; in 'high detail' campaigns, you have lots of, well, detail. Stuff like "NPC X has these stats...", and entire write ups of so-called 'mysterious organizations' that go into minute details. This basically means that DM's have to ignore/drop stuff to fit their campaigns. This is bad because other published things will assume that all that minutia is being used whole-cloth...so the DM has even more work to do. As the campaign progresses, the DM's personal touches will start to seriously conflict with what gets published, making new published material less and less useful.
Anyway, Greyhawk is about a DM and Players making it their own. If you want to "puzzle-piece" your character into the setting, do it. Ask your DM for specifics he has. If he doesn't have any, ask him if you can make some stuff up. Need a secretive guild of 'shadow mages'? Fine, write it up yourself, give it to the DM, and go to it! If you are more inclined to just forking over some $ to use something someone else created, without any input from your DM or yourself...then Ebberon or FR is probably more your style. :)
In any case, have fun! That's the whole point, right? :D
Well, I work full time and have 14 hours per week of classes, so I don't really have time to create detailed lore. For me it's easier to have the campaign setting mapped out fairly well and figure out where my character and his storyline fits into it all. I can understand your issues with FR. With all of the FR supplements, novels, and magazine publications, it becomes a bit unwieldy. It's a bit easier to do with Eberron, though, especially since I've been reading it since release and I don't have to play catch up. Oh well. To each their own, I suppose.
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The "info" for Greyhawk is sparse...because it's *supposed* to be. Greyhawk is about -creating-, not about -buying-.
No it isn't.
Greyhawk was like every other setting, about buying.While it was presented as not being so at first, the ever expanding amount of material for it in Dragon, along with the adventures being set there, quickly relegated that idea to nothing more than a convenient claim for those who want to oppose any expansion of the setting.
The real reasons the info was so sparse included:
1. Gygax didn't realize people would obsess over such details - he certainly didn't
2. The setting was adapted from a home campaign, and so much of it was made up just for the product
3. It was an active home campaign, and much was hidden to avoid giving away spoilers about active characters
4. A lot just never existed, as a combination of 1 and 2
5. Gygax left TSR, and they went with FR
But once it was realized just how much people would actually buy for a setting, the material started coming fast and furious, starting with the boxed set upgrade from the folio, and continuing with Dragon article after Dragon article until the big switch.
So no, the setting isn't just "fill it in yourself." The expansion just got cut off before it could really start flowing.
*Crosses fingers and hopes the upload is up tomorrow*
I'm an "equal-opportunity" gamer. That's good for games, but sad for my wallet ;) FR will always have a place in my heart as my first campaign setting, Greyhawk has that old-school goodness that FR seems to have misplaced in its current incarnation (but it's there if you look hard enough), and Eberron puts a new spin on my favorite game.
As to the subject at hand, why not run Shackled City or Age of Worms? I'm currently running AoW so I have PLENTY of time for the STAP conversions (please don't throw stones...or rotten veggies) ;P
IMHO...why is there a need for yet another topic about this? James has said on multiple occasions that they are working on getting the conversions out as soon as is possible to release a quality project. I, for one, would much rather have my copies of Dungeon and Dragon on time than a short supplement. If a DM (I'm not one to use names), really needs this information, they can 1) Put in a little leg work and elbow grease and create their own; 2) Look around on the boards for topics where this type of information is already going up; or 3) *gasp* Use the campaign as written...introduce your players to a different setting...throw a few surprises. Now, before I am BBQ'd extra crispy by flames, I'm not calling anyone out. Every group has a preferred setting/world/house rule/etc. Tis not for me to judge another's preferences. At the same time, STAP (and the other APs) were written for Greyhawk. So, if you wish to run it elsewhere...be content to wait...it'll come...and it's free!
/end msg
FFB
I'm an "equal-opportunity" gamer. That's good for games, but sad for my wallet ;) FR will always have a place in my heart as my first campaign setting, Greyhawk has that old-school goodness that FR seems to have misplaced in its current incarnation (but it's there if you look hard enough), and Eberron puts a new spin on my favorite game.
As to the subject at hand, why not run Shackled City or Age of Worms? I'm currently running AoW so I have PLENTY of time for the STAP conversions (please don't throw stones...or rotten veggies) ;P
One of the PCs in my STAP game is actually running SC as I speak, and will be running AW in a few months. I had to pounce on ST before he got to it. :-D
I have a homebrew Age of Worms conversion for the Forgotten Realms posted at the RPGenius address below.
It's set in Amn prior to the Time of Troubles. Not exactly a by the book conversion, but it might contain a couple elements to help you along your way.
http://therpgenius.com/ageofworms/RoleplayingAids/tabid/227/Default.aspx
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If you like it, let me know what you think, yo!
I have a homebrew Age of Worms conversion for the Forgotten Realms posted at the RPGenius address below.
It's set in Amn prior to the Time of Troubles. Not exactly a by the book conversion, but it might contain a couple elements to help you along your way.
http://therpgenius.com/ageofworms/RoleplayingAids/tabid/227/Default.aspx
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If you like it, let me know what you think, yo!
Man, I don't know what in the nine hells I was thinking. I totally thought that I was reading an Age of Worms thread. Well, I guess to who it may concern, you know where to find it...
i must argue here... i think a cool, well maintained, detailed, well supported background like FR is more important then just nostalgia.
If the default setting in 3.5 were FR, I would have gone with a completely different game...
i must argue here... i think a cool, well maintained, detailed, well supported background like FR is more important then just nostalgia.If the default setting in 3.5 were FR, I would have gone with a completely different game...
huhh, i started a long arguement here, i didnt ment to. everyone plays with and were they like!
i found it cool in FR that there is a 2nd ed. ADnD area sourcebook for every location and that they are easely adaptable to the game RPG wise. i wasnt talking about rules or exact things in history, only the feeling boosters.
read the Jungles of Chult for example. it gives a powerboost in creating the atmosphere for STAP being played in or around Chult, FR.
it is also cool that there are numerous organizations, locations, names, etc, which anyone mentions and everyone immediately knows what that means or covers.
it gives a detailed wellestablished common ground which i like.
Does it look like it will be up today?
Guess not.
Okay, whose PC do I have to kill to get this thing?
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Creative Director
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Which is why I hate giving dates for these things. Paizo's a busy place, and web enhancements are sadly VERY low on the crisis list. While there's not much left to do to get them online, the problem is finding time to edit, lay out, and prepare the files. Unfortunately, the files are at a point now where they're caught between layout and final editing passes. I'm doing what I can to get them going, but since last week was a "GET DRAGON TO PRESS GO GO GO" week, not much happened on any other magazine-related front at all.
Again, I apologize for the converson notes not being available. Killing PCs won't speed things up. Killing my PCs would probably slow things down, since I'll loose a day or two crying into my pillow.
Really, give James a break, people. It's not as if we paid for the conversion - it's a freebie from the good folks at Paizo. We're lucky to get it at all. It'll come when it comes, and just be glad when it does. I really don't understand what all the whining is about.
Thank you Keoki...it's like I said above...We should not be pressuring Paizo to provide us with freebies, when they are taking the time to provide 12 months worth of outstanding adventure.
/end msg
FFB
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Again, I apologize for the converson notes not being available.
James, no worries, buddy. Don't let a few negative-nanceys get to you! We appreciate the work that you guys do and thank you for all your efforts.
Better it be 'late' and have the quality you guys have done in the past than rushed and less-in-quality.
fcw
Really, give James a break, people. It's not as if we paid for the conversion - it's a freebie from the good folks at Paizo. We're lucky to get it at all. It'll come when it comes, and just be glad when it does. I really don't understand what all the whining is about.
Who's whining?
Again, I apologize for the converson notes not being available.
Plus, it's more my fault than James. I was slow and blew the window.
My apologies,
--Eric
I was just wondering if the pictures for issues 139 and 140 could be posted separately for those of us who are running in Greyhawk. :)
Really, give James a break, people. It's not as if we paid for the conversion - it's a freebie from the good folks at Paizo. We're lucky to get it at all. It'll come when it comes, and just be glad when it does. I really don't understand what all the whining is about.Who's whining?
The only people i see whining are the people who seem to can't wait to jump all over anyone that asks a question about when conversion material will come out in a FR Conversion download thread.
When i bought the magazine it stated in the magazine that conversion material would be added on the site. SO given that info i bought the magazine. I expect it to be added at some point. Asking when this will happen is not "rude" or "obnoxious" so YOU GUYS chill out. Now if someone starts posting every week you may have a leg to stand on but i didnt see that (in this thread anyway) Having conversion material (to some customers) is very imporant. Making inquries about it (which were not done in a rude manor either; in this thread) should not result in getting chastised or reprimanded.
Its thier perogative to ask the question. So i don't agree with the overly enthusatical people on this board who fall over themselves to admonish anyone who asks questions or voices their opinion about having FR material posted, who then immediately praises paizo staff while reminding everyone how lucky they are that this is even being considered/done. That is getting annoying as hell. As much as people who constantly ask where the material is.
Okay, so. When?
I've never really understood the Greyhawk vs. Forgotten Realms argument, myself. The game is what the DM (and the players) make it. A good campaign in Greyhawk is a good campaign. A good campaign in FR is a good campaign. A bad one is still a bad one no matter what the setting. IMHO a setting is nothing more than a tool to help weave the story and play the game. Should it matter which setting it is - no, not if the DM is doing his/her job.
I personally like Forgotten Realms better but that is because I have begun reading the old Drizzt novels and I have more familiarity with that setting because of the novels. Often though, I am too lazy to convert and decide to keep the setting Greyhawk. It really makes no difference.
I am starting a new Shackled City campaign and have already gave warning to the potential new players that the setting is Greyhawk. Of course, I have also said that if they overwhelmingly wanted Forgotten Realms, I would convert. It's the game that matters, not the setting.
With no deadlines for Dragon/Dungeon for a week (if my information is correct) would it be possible that we can get these conversation notes uploaded to the website? We all have been waiting patiently and the date for my start of Savage Tide AP is only two weeks from now. I need to make the players aware of the changes as I intend to run the game in Forgotten Realms.
From what I understand in other posts/topics the notes have been submitted it's merely a editing and posting to the website for download that's keeping such from happening.
Thanks in advance,
~MB
Please HELP!
I am new to Paizo's site. I'm very interested in the Savage Tide conversion notes for the Forgotten Realms. I have read a lot of message board chat about it and management says it's coming. HOWEVER, I do NOT know where to look when it does come out. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Since I'm on the topic, where can I find FR conversion notes for the Shackled City (Cauldron) AP and the Age of Worms AP?
Thanks a ton!
Edit - Okay, I found the Age of Worms/FR conversion in the Age of Worms Overload .pdf. I'm still looking for the Shackled City conversion and where to find the Savage Tide conversion when Paizo posts it online. Thanks again.
Any chance of these conversion notes getting posted to the website today or tomororw? Sure would be nice to have them by Friday so Savage Time Campaigns that start this weekend can run in either FR or EB. I'm starting my Savage Tide on this coming Friday night and would love to be able to ruin it in the Realms since I have most the source material of 3rd/3.5 and 2nd Ed to flush out the details of the region it will be set in.
Thanks,
~MB
... HOWEVER, I do NOT know where to look when it does come out. Can someone point me in the right direction?... - Okay, I found the Age of Worms/FR conversion in the Age of Worms Overload .pdf. I'm still looking for the Shackled City conversion and where to find the Savage Tide conversion when Paizo posts it online.
The conversions are in the on-line supplements of each issue. For the Savage Tide conversions, you just have to keep an eye out for when each issue's supplement goes up here: http://paizo.com/dungeon
scroll down to "resources" and click on the issue you need.For back issues, which is where you'll find the SCAP (Shackled City) conversions, you need to go here: http://paizo.com/dungeon/resources/downloads
Paizo started doing the on-line supplements mid way through the SCAP being printed in the magazine, so you won't find them for ALL of the adventures unless they went back and did an upgrade after the hardback came out, and I don't think that happened. You'll need a list of the issues that SCAP was published in to get the downloads of the issues you want.
Really, give James a break, people. It's not as if we paid for the conversion - it's a freebie from the good folks at Paizo. We're lucky to get it at all. It'll come when it comes, and just be glad when it does. I really don't understand what all the whining is about.Who's whining?The only people i see whining are the people who seem to can't wait to jump all over anyone that asks a question about when conversion material will come out in a FR Conversion download thread.
When i bought the magazine it stated in the magazine that conversion material would be added on the site. SO given that info i bought the magazine. I expect it to be added at some point. Asking when this will happen is not "rude" or "obnoxious" so YOU GUYS chill out. Now if someone starts posting every week you may have a leg to stand on but i didnt see that (in this thread anyway) Having conversion material (to some customers) is very imporant. Making inquries about it (which were not done in a rude manor either; in this thread) should not result in getting chastised or reprimanded.
Its thier perogative to ask the question. So i don't agree with the overly enthusatical people on this board who fall over themselves to admonish anyone who asks questions or voices their opinion about having FR material posted, who then immediately praises paizo staff while reminding everyone how lucky they are that this is even being considered/done. That is getting annoying as hell. As much as people who constantly ask where the material is.
That, Byron, is whining:).
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Senior Software Developer
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The conversion notes for the Savage Tide Adventure Path are now available for download (100KB PDF). This supplement, by Eric L. Boyd and Keith Baker, contains information about running the adventure path in the Forgotten Realms and Eberron.
Also available for download are the notes for running "The Bullywug Gambit" (92KB PDF) in the Forgotten Realms and Eberron.
Hello all,
I am new to the messageboard, but have used Dungeon off and on since the first issue, I just wanted to thank everyone at Paizo for their hardwork and patience in getting these supplements out as promised.
Kudos guys/gals.
Will
THANK YOU!
Thank you, Gary, Eric, and the rest of your crew for the conversion notes to play the Savage Tide in FR. I really appreciate the map outlining where you suggest putting the city.
Cheers!
P.S. Tiger Lilly, thanks for the post. You wouldn't happen to know which issue to find the Shackled City conversion notes are in do you? I assume it's the first issue the SC-AP started but I don't remember and all my dungeon magazines are packed up at the moment.
Glad it's helpful. Feel free to ask questions.
--Eric
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Thank you very much, Eric!
Your work clearly shows how much effort you spent on fitting the adventures into the realms!
It will take some additional research of mine in the mentioned old edition sources, but those hints of yours are VERY welcome! They give more depth to the adventures (in the realms) and make them more palpable for my players.
I am pretty sure that more questions will arise when people start to delve deeper into your conversion notes... ;-)
Greetings,
Günther