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Hey all, I might've taken this to a different board in the past, but for one reason or another, I decided to post here looking for advice.
I'm currently playing in a campaign of World's Largest Dungeon. Although the party make-up is in a sort of rotating roster (due to high mortality rates), I've thrown all of my energy behind an unassuming kobold sorcerer (front-end blaster style (rays), with some utility and defense spells).
Now, I know that planning his spell selection far into the future of his progression may be getting a bit ahead of myself, I was looking at those seemingly-unattainable 9th level spells that he may one day be able to cast. There won't be a lot for him. Three different ones at most, so of course I'll want to make the most of them.
Time Stop has always seemed like one of the best 9th level spells out there for a Sorcerer. The only thing is that in this campaign, the DM has banned polymorphing spells and summoning spells.
So here're my questions:
1) Under those restrictions, would Time Stop still be a good choice? Or is there a better option? (I'm leaning toward Time Stop, Wish, and maybe PW:Kill)
2) What would be good uses of the time that's been bought with it?
3) Any spells in particular that I should pick up along the way to help with that?
Thanks for the assist, guys!
EDIT: All WotC books are allowed in this game, with DM's Right of Refusal for any specific stuff he might feel is overpowered. Cool.
Hey all, I might've taken this to a different board in the past, but for one reason or another, I decided to post here looking for advice.
I'm currently playing in a campaign of World's Largest Dungeon. Although the party make-up is in a sort of rotating roster (due to high mortality rates), I've thrown all of my energy behind an unassuming kobold sorcerer (front-end blaster style (rays), with some utility and defense spells).
Now, I know that planning his spell selection far into the future of his progression may be getting a bit ahead of myself, I was looking at those seemingly-unattainable 9th level spells that he may one day be able to cast. There won't be a lot for him. Three different ones at most, so of course I'll want to make the most of them.
Time Stop has always seemed like one of the best 9th level spells out there for a Sorcerer. The only thing is that in this campaign, the DM has banned polymorphing spells and summoning spells.
So here're my questions:
1) Under those restrictions, would Time Stop still be a good choice? Or is there a better option? (I'm leaning toward Time Stop, Wish, and maybe PW:Kill)
2) What would be good uses of the time that's been bought with it?
3) Any spells in particular that I should pick up along the way to help with that?Thanks for the assist, guys!
Fleetfang,
It's a pretty common tactic, but my favorite non-summoning spell to follow up Time Stop with is Delayed Blast Fireball. Pull the string as soon as the world unfreezes around our favorite Kobold Sorcerer... :)
I would also remind you that Gate is a Conjuration spell with the "Calling" subtype--not Summoning. It may pervert the "spirit of the law" in your DM's eyes, but technically, you could make a very sound argument that it doesn't break the letter of his rules. If he allows it, that's the spell to go for. It's a must-have spell, IMHO.
Reverse Gravity (area) or anything that affects the terrain of your enemy rather than targeting him is fun, too, depending on your situation.
Lastly, I recommend using Time Stop to cast Project Image, then hiding (perhaps Greater Invisibility?). Casting your spells from the projection while you're safely away is a nice move that's worked for me in the past, too. You can really screw with an enemy's perception in that way.
Hope those help!
JD
(NO summoning spells?!?!?! ::faints::)
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Here are a few thoughts right off the top of my head. Time stop has been changed to be rather limiting. (Not sure if I agree with the changes.) While a lot of it sounds cool, I'm not sure how truly useful it really is. Also, I feel that Wish is a poor choice for a Sorcerer. As a Sorcerer, you want spells that you will be able to cast every battle -- many times. The XP cost for Wish (IMO) really takes it out of the truly viable Sorcerer spells.
Here are a few spells you might want to look up for your sorcerer for 9th level spells...
Sphere of Ultimate Destruction (Spell Compendium)
Reaving Dispel (Spell Compendium)
Prismatic Sphere (PHB)
Power Word Kill (PHB)
Meteor Swarm (PHB)
Magic Miasma (Spell Compendium)
Hold Monster, Mass (PHB)
Absorption (Spell Compendium)
Bigby's Crushing Hand (PHB)
Black Blade of Disaster (Spell Compendium)
As a possible alternative, in Unearthed Arcana, it gave an optional rule to "know" a metamagic feat attached to a spell for the appropriate spell slot. So you could have an empowered delayed blast fireball, or a quickened prismatic ray (spell compendium) or a quickened cone of cold -- each as one of your "known" 9th level spells.
Hope this helps...
I feel that Wish is a poor choice for a Sorcerer. As a Sorcerer, you want spells that you will be able to cast every battle -- many times. The XP cost for Wish (IMO) really takes it out of the truly viable Sorcerer spells.
I agree with Moff about Wish for sorcerers. Ask yourself this: "do I really need to cast a spell that could be named "Lose 5,000XP" three times a day"?
JD
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Good point on the XP hits per day.
My main reason for taking Wish was that in my 20 some-odd years of playing D&D I've NEVER played a PC high enough to get that spell. It's the gold ring that's ALWAYS been out of reach. Knowing that WLD is a campaign that rolls PCs all the way up to those epicish levels, it's my hope that one day I'll get to it.
That, and I figure once I get it, 5000 xp here and there for inherent bonuses to all of my important stats would be kinda nice. :)
I'll look at Sphere of Ultimate Destruction and the Hand of Crushing Goodness.
Heck, I can always plan to take Wish at 20th level and use the other 9th level spells until then.
Any other advice on the way is appreciated. Thanks, guys!
Good point on the XP hits per day.
My main reason for taking Wish was that in my 20 some-odd years of playing D&D I've NEVER played a PC high enough to get that spell. It's the gold ring that's ALWAYS been out of reach. Knowing that WLD is a campaign that rolls PCs all the way up to those epicish levels, it's my hope that one day I'll get to it.
That, and I figure once I get it, 5000 xp here and there for inherent bonuses to all of my important stats would be kinda nice. :)
I'll look at Sphere of Ultimate Destruction and the Hand of Crushing Goodness.
Heck, I can always plan to take Wish at 20th level and use the other 9th level spells until then.Any other advice on the way is appreciated. Thanks, guys!
I say pick it up at 18th level, get your +5 inherent bonuses out of it, then ditch it at 20th unless it proves useful. Remember, Sorcerers can dump one spell every 4 levels for another one.
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That, and I figure once I get it, 5000 xp here and there for inherent bonuses to all of my important stats would be kinda nice. :)
If all you want wish for is the inherent bonuses, you should look at commissioning and/or purchasing the tomes/manuals found in the DMG. Or you could look at purchasing scrolls with wish on them. It might be a quest to find someone who can create the scrolls and then another matter to figure out how much the person would be willing to part with them. My point is that if you have a very specific use in mind for the Wish spell, it is probably more in your best interest to purchase the use instead of using a spell slot to get it.
Thanis has a good idea as well -- take Wish at 18th level and then swap it out when you are done with it. I just feel that it limits you in your high-level spell casting and...
In order to get the maximum +5 inherent bonus, you need to cast it 5 times in quick succession -- difficult to do unless you have at least a couple of scrolls anyway. It will cost a minimum of 25,000 xp which would probably set you back a couple of levels as well. Even though the cost of the Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 costs an impressive 137,500 gp, it still seems to me the better way to go. If you just want them "here and there", the +1 books are only 27,500 gp each which is a steal at higher levels.
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Hmm... Yes, the Tomes and books would be swell. So would scrolls for that matter, but the World's Largest Dungeon campaign takes place entirely in the danger zone of, well, the world's largest dungeon. :)
I don't know what lies ahead, but I've got a feeling that there won't be much in the way of stores where we can buy whatever we'd like. Unfortunately.
Also, in reviewing the Sorcerer Swap rules for spells known, it looks like one can never swap out 8th and 9th level spells. The swapped spell has to be two levels lower than the highest level spells that the Sorcerer can cast. Bummer!
So I've seen the fault of Wish. I MAY still take it right at the end of the campaign, just for bragging rights.
I just found out that there's a Warmage joining the pool of characters that the players are using. He won't always be around, but having a "blaster" sorcerer compared to a Warmage (the class built for blasting), are there spells I should choose in order to better dish out the pain? Is it even possible to keep up with him, considering the greater variety of spells and free feats he'll be getting?
Or should I just have my wicked kobold off him at the first opportunity? heh heh heh
Sphere of Ultimate Destruction (Spell Compendium)... Black Blade of Disaster (Spell Compendium)
Is there actually a real difference in the functionality of these two? Because if they both operate under basically the same principles, 1) Why go to the trouble of creating two nearly identical spells, differing only in the flavor text?, and 2) BBoD actually seems to be slightly weaker than SoUD. Is there something about the former that makes it actually equal to or better than the latter?
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Is there actually a real difference in the functionality of these two? Because if they both operate under basically the same principles, 1) Why go to the trouble of creating two nearly identical spells, differing only in the flavor text?, and 2) BBoD actually seems to be slightly weaker than SoUD. Is there something about the former that makes it actually equal to or better than the latter?
Hey, I didn't create the spells, I just posted them here to take a look at.
I have a feeling that this is a case of "hindsight is 20/20". The Black Blade of Disaster was originally written in 3.0 in Magic of Faerun. I think that the writers then felt that they needed a spell to duplicate the Sphere of Ultimate Destruction and put that in Unapproachable East and Complete Arcane. Instead of getting rid of the Black Blade spell they included it for completeness.
I agree -- if you were to choose, go with the Sphere of Ultimate Destruction -- No roll to hit, can be used against objects, is Medium range instead of Close -- otherwise, pretty much identical. The only benefit to the Black Blade that I can see is that it doesn't have a move speed, so it looks like it can move across the battlefield as quickly as you want it to.
Best use for time stop? Make it last 24 hours.
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Yeah, I saw that Teasing. Nice!
I also spotted the BBoD v. SoUD similarities last night when I was looking over the list of suggested spells. I pretty much came to the same conclusion. Sphere it is! Then I'll take Kurtulmak's Crushing Claw (bigby's), and round things off for the career with, oh, I dunno... PW:K or maybe the Wish afterall.
Heck, if my PC lives that long, I'll let y'all know.
Thanks for the feedback!