I am interesting to know how do you think the following feat combos would work and if possible how it actually works within the rules.
A fighter with the Karmic Strike feat from Complete Warriors and the Evasive Reflexes from The Tome of Battle. (Assuming he also has Combat Reflexes from PHB and a Dex of 14)
Would he be able to 1) Attack 3 more times / round people that engaged him in Melee?
If he had a reach Weapon would he be able to attack any one that he can reach ? (i.e. if an archer uses a bow to strike at him from 10ft away. Would he provoke 2 attacks of Opportunity 1 for firing a bow and 1 for actually hitting the Karmic Strike fighter?)
If you was attacked by a single opponent with 3 attacks would he be able to attack that opponent 3 times (assuming the opponent hits and the karmic strike guy is still alive.)
Now with Evasive Reflexes can the fighter after he is been hit by an attack choose to take a 5ft step backwards so that if his opponent or another opponent chooses to engage him in melee (without reach) provokes an attack of opportunity?
Well, I haven't read any of the feats you mentioned, but regarding the archer and getting two attacks: I'm gonna say no. You can only get one attack of opportunity per provoking event, no matter how many you get. This can be carried over as a "spirit of the rules" precedent to any other feat that allows attacks under "provoking" conditions, as it sounds these are.
Actually, using Karmic Strike is a different AoO trigger than firing a bow from within reach. Assuming Combat Reflexes was in play, you would get two AoO for that.
And Karmic Strike can keep triggering over and over, as long as the fighter has taken that -4 to his AC and his opponents keep hitting him.
As for Evasive Reflexes, I can't say. Don't have that book.
I don't have access to ToB, so I can't comment on Evasive Reflexes. Let's look at Karmic Strike, though...
According to Complete Warrior (p102):
- You must be struck by a melee attack in order to use this feat. Melee touch attacks also qualify. An attack from an archer is not a melee attack, and so would not qualify one to use this feat. It doesn't say you have to take damage, only that you have to be hit. Therefore, spells that do not deal damage, but that require melee touch attacks, would qualify - even if the caster makes the requisite checks to ensure you don't get an AoO on him for the casting itself. Also, if you have DR you can still use this feat, even if the "hit" didn't overcome the DR threshold.
- You use this feat on your next action. Normally, an AoO interrupts the initiative order so that the attacker can perform their attack. With Karmic Strike, you do not perform your AoO until it is your turn. This is important because...
- You must threaten the target in order to use Karmic Strike. If your opponent has Spring Attack, you might find yourself unable to use Karmic Strike against them. If your opponent has reach, and you do not, Karmic strike does you no good. I might rule that a PC can take a single five-foot step before triggering their Karmic Strike, but an opponent with a 10' reach that drops back 5 feet would effectively nullify even this caveat.
Remember, Karmic Strike does not nix any of the AoO rules, as set forth on page 137 of the PH:
- An AoO is a single melee attack.
- You only get one AoO per round per given opportunity. The example would be a caster that moves through your threatened area and then casts a spell while theatened by you. Both facts would provoke AoOs, and a single PC would therefore be justified in taking two AoOs. An archer firing multiple arrows would not qualify as multiple opportunities for AoOs, IMnsHO.
Now with Evasive Reflexes can the fighter after he is been hit by an attack choose to take a 5ft step backwards so that if his opponent or another opponent chooses to engage him in melee (without reach) provokes an attack of opportunity?
Doesn't Evasive Reflexes allow you to take a 5ft step instead of an AoO? I'm confused as to what you're asking.
However, here's some rules lawyering courtesy of WotC on the feat:
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Q The Tome of Battle includes a feat named "Evasive Reflexes". This feat is raising a lot of questions on the message boards. Here are the main questions that I hope you can shed some light on:
1. If I have both Evasive Reflexes and Combat Reflexes, and I am normally entitled to four attacks of opportunity per round, what is the maximum number of 5-foot-steps per round that I can make using Evasive Reflexes?
2. Do the 5-foot-step(s) that I make using Evasive Reflexes count against the total number of attacks of opportunity that I can make in a single round?
Thanks in advance.
A
1) 4. You can take a five foot step each time an enemy provokes.
2) Yes they do! Essentially you are replacing the attack with the move, but it still uses up an AoO!
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I don't have access to ToB, so I can't comment on Evasive Reflexes. Let's look at Karmic Strike, though...
According to Complete Warrior (p102):
- You must be struck by a melee attack in order to use this feat. Melee touch attacks also qualify. An attack from an archer is not a melee attack, and so would not qualify one to use this feat. It doesn't say you have to take damage, only that you have to be hit. Therefore, spells that do not deal damage, but that require melee touch attacks, would qualify - even if the caster makes the requisite checks to ensure you don't get an AoO on him for the casting itself. Also, if you have DR you can still use this feat, even if the "hit" didn't overcome the DR threshold.
- You use this feat on your next action. Normally, an AoO interrupts the initiative order so that the attacker can perform their attack. With Karmic Strike, you do not perform your AoO until it is your turn. This is important because...
- You must threaten the target in order to use Karmic Strike. If your opponent has Spring Attack, you might find yourself unable to use Karmic Strike against them. If your opponent has reach, and you do not, Karmic strike does you no good. I might rule that a PC can take a single five-foot step before triggering their Karmic Strike, but an opponent with a 10' reach that drops back 5 feet would effectively nullify even this caveat.Remember, Karmic Strike does not nix any of the AoO rules, as set forth on page 137 of the PH:
- An AoO is a single melee attack.
- You only get one AoO per round per given opportunity. The example would be a caster that moves through your threatened area and then casts a spell while threatened by you. Both facts would provoke AoOs, and a single PC would therefore be justified in taking two AoOs. An archer firing multiple arrows would not qualify as multiple opportunities for AoOs, IMnsHO.
Thank you for the reply it is still a deadly combination after the clarifications. Where does it state that you take the AoO at the next turn the text in Complete Warrior seems to imply that you take the -4 AC penalty on your action till your next action and you are able to make the AoO during this time.
Thus if an opponent with spring attack attacks you get to hit him back. As only his movement does not provoke AoO but his attack does. (Assuming you are holding a spiked Chain exotic weapon)
In the text for KS it states the trigger happens on your next turn in the initiative order. Basically, this just allows one to calculate how long the -4 will be in effect. Were it not for this, you would have your -4 from the targets initiative (or, just after it). If you want to be more realistic, the KS could be triggered as a regular AoO, but that might be too much for a DM (book keeping wise).
An interesting point, since KS does follow the rules of AoOs, anything that negates an AoO (tumbling perhaps) would negate the KS as well...
According to Complete Warrior (p102):
- You must be struck by a melee attack in order to use this feat. Melee touch attacks also qualify. An attack from an archer is not a melee attack, and so would not qualify one to use this feat. It doesn't say you have to take damage, only that you have to be hit. Therefore, spells that do not deal damage, but that require melee touch attacks, would qualify - even if the caster makes the requisite checks to ensure you don't get an AoO on him for the casting itself. Also, if you have DR you can still use this feat, even if the "hit" didn't overcome the DR threshold.
absolutely true.
- You use this feat on your next action. Normally, an AoO interrupts the initiative order so that the attacker can perform their attack. With Karmic Strike, you do not perform your AoO until it is your turn. This is important because...
not particularly true. you only choose to apply the penalty on your turn. this penalty, in turn, allows you to make said AoO's. this feat is sort of a trade off of ac for another way to make an AoO.
- You must threaten the target in order to use Karmic Strike. If your opponent has Spring Attack, you might find yourself unable to use Karmic Strike against them. If your opponent has reach, and you do not, Karmic strike does you no good. I might rule that a PC can take a single five-foot step before triggering their Karmic Strike, but an opponent with a 10' reach that drops back 5 feet would effectively nullify even this caveat.
spring attack is exactly what this feat is meant to counter. i know i love being the guy with spring attack, but i cant stand those little sneaky bastards (you know, like the sword) that do it to me. while it is true that some things can still get away with pounding on you (large and larger creatures, or mediums or smalls with reach weapons, and you dont have a reach weapon), its primarily a defense against spring attack and other forms of moving melee attacks that do not normally provoke AoO's.
tog