So, my group started A Gathering of Winds a couple weeks ago, and as often happens when I'm running a pre-written module, a bunch of little problems crop up in the middle of the game (problems that were out having a smoke while I was pre-reading it for the third time, of course). Here are some recounts of just a couple of the problems we came to.
First off, over the last THREE sessions, we haven't even gotten to the second map of the module. The first session was most role-playing, what with leaving the Free City, talking to people in town, planning to fight the dragon, and so on. Fighting the dragon took a little while, and thus ended the first session. That's when the problems arose.
The fight with the Abyssal Ghoul was FAR too taxing, on character resources as well as player sanity. It was dealing ridiculous amounts of damage with each hit (and it got four attacks a round, no less), and few of the players could HIT it, let alone DAMAGE it. (How are the players supposed to know that if they touch the portal, all of its defenses are negated? How do you describe that? Huh? Huh? Any suggestions in the module? Nope! All I've got is, "Uh, you attack it, and... you miss. Okay, you hit. Er... no, there's that 50% miss chance. Wait, you got through that? Okay, uh, none of your damage gets through. Sorry. Yes, I'm aware this is exactly what happened the last twelve attacks. Next?") Add in its awesome grapple, and its ability to DRAIN Wisdom, and you've got one heck of a nasty encounter. (The players knew it couldn't follow them, but they knew they'd be coming back through, so they wanted to fight it while they were strong, not while they were weak.) The encounter itself just bugged the crap out of me not because it was especially deadly- it was, but there was not a single PC death (or even anyone brought below 0), but the fact that THERE WAS NO END TO IT. No matter what, the entire battle (the ten or so rounds it lasted), almost nothing happened. Attacks flew, attacks missed, no damage was done. It was the most discouraging and annoying battle I (or my players, as far as I could tell) had ever witnessed, simply because there was nothing anybody could do but leave and ignore it! What the heck?
So, after the majority of the first session was spent tampering with the stupid Abyssal-Ghoul-In-A-Portal that don't mesh with the mechanics of the game at all, they were in the actual tomb of Icosiol. That was annoying. Trap after trap after trap, just about all of which was completely irrelevant with a rogue searching every 5-foot step, can get pretty annoying. Especially that gas trap- the one that shouldn't even be a trap! It explains story, so I got rid of the poison, and basically asked one of the other players to trip it on purpose, so that they could see it. Geez. Most of the rooms were pointless, and led nowhere, which, again, gets annoying after it happens several times.
The big black pudding was boring as well. How many times must players fight giant, low-AC, high-HP, mindless monsters? That also gets annoying. I replaced the Energy Drain trap with an encounter, since I saw it as pointless. Traps, in general, are pointless, especially Death traps (which this wasn't, but still, it seemed equally pointless). The players decided to camp for the night, so someone was captured by Flycatcher. That's as far as we got, but I plan on taking out entire portions of this adventure, simply because it's so lackluster and seemingly pointless from a DM-point of view.
Just my thoughts, anyway.
I thought the adventure was cool enough, although my players liked it a bit less. They had no problem with the Abyssal Ghoul, however; only two characters could hit it, so they did. The ghoul only attacked one of the fighters and never dropped him. It took 5-6 rounds.
The traps would have been incredibly annoying if the wizard had not just taken a rogue level, gaining +22 to Disable Device in addition to her +24 Search. With the bard helping her, she disabled all the traps by taking 10 (and almost no game time).
The players weren't too happy about the unintelligent monsters, but we had several fun role-playing encounters: the salamander, Flycatcher, the xorns, and Moreto.
The only thing I didn't like in the adventure was the oculus demon. It was really cool, but soooo hard. If played to full potential, it's nearly impossible to beat.
I had a bit of a struggle running that abyssal ghoul too. It isn't clear how it interacts with things on the other side of the portal, or what it looks like when he attacks through it, if that's even what's supposed to happen. In a toe-to-toe fight, however, it was easy (my PCs bull rushed it out of the portal)
I like the traps, although the big elaborate timewaster triple-door was just kind of annoying. Something at the end, even if it's just the word "sucker!" painted in Vaati, would have been more interesting.
I liked the ooze encounter, as it required the resources and teamwork of everyone to overcome. Ranger shoots them into tiny oozes, wizard nukes them all to death while barbarian stands there taking its blows and the cleric heals him.
Moreto was ridiculously easy, and the oculus demon ridiculously difficult (which a boss monster should be I guess).
The encounter(s) with the Wind Dukes in the big chasm was difficult, but only due to the extreme 3-dimensionality of an aerial fight. Trigonometry was used more than once.
Honestly, after reading about all the difficulty the "Abyssal Ghoul" was giving everyone I just dropped him from the adventure.
I'm dropping the entire first level. I might move the salamander to a room on the second level because it looks like an interesting encounter.
I'm definately changing up A Gathering of Winds quite a bit. For one thing, removing the abyssal ghoul seems like a decent idea - I might trap the portal with something reminiscent of it, though, like Wisdom damage.
Secondly, I'm not a huge fan of Moreto. And I want an excuse to use the vitreous drinker from Monster Manual IV - they're undead made of eyes that serve as elite spies for Vecna's cult. The drinker in question, of course, is the thrall of Darl Quethos. He kills Moreto and steals his gear before the PCs get down to the caverns, and he's done some scouting. In such, he's found the oculous demon, intrigued by the similarity, and intends to try to recruit him to Quethos' cause. To this end, he'll supply false information to the PCs and eventually ally with the oculous demon to kill them when they survive his "advice" and make it to the True Tomb.
Aside from that, I'll replace some of the mindless guardian encounters (like ice golems) with monsters that can be roleplayed with before the killing begins (like immoth).
In a toe-to-toe fight, however, it was easy (my PCs bull rushed it out of the portal)
Um, I'm confused... I don't have my magazine with me, but doesn't it specify that it can't be bullrushed out of the portal...?
Anyway, we finished the adventure yesterday, mainly because I vowed that we would finish it on the fourth session (because I really wanna get to the next adventure!). I cut out the entire ice section of the dungeon, ignored the gatehouse, skipped the xorn, and when they got to it, the air elementals in the true tomb didn't fight them, they just pushed them back to the entrance and told them not to cheat by flying. Moreto didn't even have time to act once (they snuck up, charged in, and as I rolled terrible on his initiative, he went last, so he was sorcerer pie- and the Spectre couldn't do much, as both of the meleers had Death Ward on). The Oculus Demon was scary, but eventually fell to the Barbarian/Cleric's axe when he was completely buffed up (power attacking for all, when you still have a +22 attack bonus, can be quite the powerful combination). Also, the majority of its attacks did little or no damage (everyone was making their saves with all of their buffs on, and Death Ward allowed them to completely ignore the eye rays). The whole battle lasted, maybe, two rounds. Maybe three.
Yes, A Gathering of Winds was really hit-or-miss, and far too long. There were parts that were really inane, like the Ghoul, the endless animated statues and the nonsensical layout of the place, while others were very interesting, like the Salamander King, the electrical trap and Flycatcher. The Oculus demon was very hard, but that made it all the more pleasant when we defeated it.
Our GM expressed his frustration with a lot of the features too, but the beauty of this game is that you can change anything. I don't know what he changed because I'm a player, but there were numerous times when he was heard to mutter "This doesn't make any sense. It's gone!"
Wow, I'm surprised to read all this. I've been looking forward to running this adventure.
I mean, sure, it's a dungeon crawl... but it has an evocative map (with the chasm), factions to exploit, and the PCs get to rescue Allustran (a nice way to realize the 'students finally surpass their master' meme).
I may have to look at the abyssal ghoul...I don't like fights where the game mechanics are hard to describe in real world terms.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up! I'm just finishing The Hall of Harsh Reflections , so I have some time to prepare for this one.
Ken
Don’t be discouraged, it is a good old fashion dungeon crawl with some interesting encounters that were fun to play. It's like any adventure it needs a little adjustment here or there to make things run smoother for the DM and players alike.
Kobold Press
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Despite helpful playtest and editor comments, the Abyssal Ghoul never really worked. I'd recommend cutting it entirely.
The traps aren't tough if there's a rogue in the party. Honest.
The oculus demon will be reappearing in a slightly different form next year, in my [url http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=672278]Expedition to the Demonweb Pits[/url]. The main change is that he no longer gets the eyebolts as free actions, but only as swift actions. He's too deadly right now, and that's the easiest fix.
I liked 'Gathering of Winds' but as with all the modules in the AP, I hacked it apart for my own whims.
The Ghoul is gone, replaced by a Vaati golem with the portal in it's chest, the Salamander was adjusted since his race play an important part in my world, the connection to the Inevitables was made more important, the machine race being pivotal in other plots unfolding and the Occulus was made into an Obryth demon.
Nasty bugger that he already is. :)
I'm satisfied with the amount of traps, I just planted hints to suggest that the same Wind Duke who built the Whispering Cairn, Nardock, built Icosiol's tomb, a fact I think the players will appreciate. Two of my players have expressed how impressed they were with the Cairn, so dropping Nardoc's name will give them a chill.
Memories of the Cairn's traps hang heavy in the air.
One thing that did confuse me; the images in the tomb suggest that Icosiol was the one who struck Miska The Wolf-Spyder but I got the impression from The Whispering Cairn that it was Qadeej who did the stabbage.
Am I wrong?
((EDIT: I can't say B.U.G.G.E.R on the boards?))
Since I'm coming up on this encounter, I converted Augerric to an Obyrith.
I changed the eyebolts to swift actions like Mr. Baur suggested, and am considering further limiting it to just one bolt per round or adding to the description that all the bolts must aim at different targets (otherwise, Augerric can target all three bolts on one character and potentially knock said character out in 1 round).
I also removed the negative energy affinity mentioned in the SQ line but not explained later (I know the ability makes a creature take damage from positive energy and heals damage with negative energy). I assume the SQ line is mistaken and the ability was dropped from the demon on purpose to prevent Augerric from just healing himself for 6d8 each round by targetting himself with the eyebolts. If Mr. Baur is still out there, please let me know if I'm wrong.
I tried to create a relatively simple Form of Madness so I wouldn't have to change the CR. This ability would be much more powerful if the demon could sneak attack, or was teamed up with some sneak attackers. As is, it fits with the demon's function as a guard and still gives a slight boost to his attacks.
Augerric
Oculus Demon
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil, Obyrith)
Hit Dice: 15d8+120 (187)
Initiative: +9
Speed: 30', fly 70' (good)
AC: 28 (+9 dex, +9 nat), touch 19, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+21
Attack: +1 unholy longsword +22 melee (1d8+7/17-20) and eyebolts +24 ranged touch (2d8 plus special)
Full Attack: +1 unholy longsword +22/+17/+12 (1d8+7/17-20) and claw +16 melee (1d6+3) and eyebolts +24 ranged touch (2d8 plus special)
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
Special Attacks: eyebolts, form of madness, paralyzing gaze, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: all-around vision, damage reduction 10/cold iron and good, darkvision 60', immune to poison, immune to mind-affecting effects, resist acid 10, resist cold 10, resist electricity 10, resist fire 10, spell resistance 24
Saves: fort +17, ref +18, will +9
Abilities: str 23, dex 28, con 26, int 10, wis 10, cha 12
Skills: concentration +26, diplomacy +3, hide +27, intimidate +19, listen +18, move silently +27, search +26, sense motive +18, spot +26
Feats: dodge, improved critical (longsword), mobility, point blank shot, precise shot, shot on the run
Enviroment: Infinite Layers of the Abyss
Organization: solitary, pair, or flock (3-8)
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure: double standard plus +1 unholy longsword
Alignment: always chaotic evil
Advancement: 16-23 HD (medium), 24-35 HD (large), 36-45 HD (huge)
Level Adjustment:-
Eyebolt (Su): As a swift action...
Form of Madness (Su): The many-eyed form of an Oculus Demon invokes feelings of intense scrutiny and awakens deeply rooted paranoias of being so closely observed. Any creature within 100' that views the Oculus Demon must make a will save (dc 18) or act as though flanked (enemies gain +2 to melee attacks and can deliver sneak attacks) while within sight of the demon. This condition does affect rogues or other characters with improved uncanny dodge. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Since I'm coming up on this encounter, I converted Augerric to an Obyrith.
Well done! I wish I had the Codex of the Abyss when I was running this, as it would have definitely added flavor to the encounter. I agree that Auggeric is probably the deadliest encounter in the module, though the party I DM'd rolled exceptionally well (a few crit's despite its defenses). I honestly killed more PCs in the previous room with Whirlwinding Elementals dropping PCs 500 feet. Killed the paladin and cleric and brought the spirit shaman into the negatives. Augerric only disabled one PC with eyerays before being found a by Flying, Invisility-Seeing Fighter Bard, who got lucky on dice and conceal (Auggeric doesn't have a lot of HP) Tried to play cat and mouse with cool abilities and payed the price...oh well.
I agree that the abyssal ghoul is an annoying encounter, but it's more of a grinder set-up with the belkers and salamander potentially attacking back-to-back.
My third AoW party just finished the adventure and IT WAS GREAT!
The fight with Ilthane was memorable. The dragon surprised the party and blasted it with her breath weapon. First round: the party's wizard hastes the party, the cleric casts bull's strenght on the fighter, and then - THE FIGHTER JUMPS OVER ILTHANE (with a 48 on the jump roll and a successful tumble roll to avoid AoO), AND WITH A TRIP ATTACK FROM HIS SPIKED CHAIN THE DRAGON IS DROPPED TO THE GROUND! Then the rogue moves in and sneack attacks.
The dragon, confused, stands up and begins to fly again (drawing AoO fron both fighter and rogue),
Second round: the wizard casts wall of force directly in front of the dragon, who crashes into it and drops to the ground - again! The fighter and the rogue manage to flank Ilthane and by the end of the round she is no more.
The abyssal ghoul was vanquished from a successful TU from the cleric (a Radiant Servant of Pelor, by the way).
The traps and false doors of the dungeon were amusing. But the most interesting encounters were the ones with Flycatcher, Antyress Redpike and Moreto, all resolved by clever use of the Diplomacy skill.
The final encounter with the oculus demon wasn't too difficult - he decided to kill the party's wizard and almost succeeded, but in the meantime (two rounds) he was tripped and savaged by the fighter, rogue and cleric.
Besides the interesting encounters, I changed the finale: the spirit of Icosiol elected the party's rogue to be his chosen heir - The Prince of Winds.
It took three sessions of play to complete the adventure. In the beginning I thought it was one of the least successful of AoW, but in the end it revealed to be one of the best.
The oculus demon will be reappearing in a slightly different form next year, in my [url http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=672278]Expedition to the Demonweb Pits[/url]. The main change is that he no longer gets the eyebolts as free actions, but only as swift actions. He's too deadly right now, and that's the easiest fix.
Looking at Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, I notice that the oculus demon's eyebolts are still free actions. In fact, the only changes that I can see are that its flight manoeuvrability has been improved to perfect, and its claw damage die has been increased to 1d8. Did you decide it wasn't too deadly after all?
My players had a fun old time in here. Between the black pudding enveloping the sorceror... omn nom nom... gear starts dissolving, what's this say on your character sheet? Necklace of Fireballs? BOOOM!
Then the Radiant Servant takes one look at Moreto and before I can say anything, there's this little pile of dust where he (and his exposition) used to be standing.
Plus this in the fight in the chasm against the wind warriors: The radiant servant is down, half way down the waterfall. The fighter is doing a Indiana Jones impression with a Rope of Climbing. The sorceror decides to fly down to the unconscious cleric and give him a potion. So, out comes the griffon figurine of wondrous power that he picked up in the mind flayer's lair two adventures ago and hasn't used, ever. He speaks the command word, it transforms... and attacks him! I haven't laughed so much in years.
So, out comes the griffon figurine of wondrous power that he picked up in the mind flayer's lair two adventures ago and hasn't used, ever. He speaks the command word, it transforms... and attacks him! I haven't laughed so much in years.
That is awesome. LoL. I only put one of the cursed items in that room, and they sold them. I am tempted to replace the next cursed item in an adventure be one the party thinks is useful, so they dont just sell it off.