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I am spending an inordinate amount of time going back and forth between the written descriptions and the maps. It seems to me that the maps don't gel with the written words. Or perhaps it's the organization of rooms that throws me. In any event, here are some stumbles I've made.
SPOILERS TO FOLLOW...
1. Entrance. The description seems to reflect entering the servant's door. However, the map (and description later) reflect entering the double doors from its balcony a great distance up.
2. Room 6. I've had to keep going over this issue with the boats on how exactly you are to descend into the dungeon without being bounced to Ibex's antechamber.
3. Room 7. This appears to be the entrance from Room 6, but I'm not clear how ... especially when Room 8 is described as being linked to Room 6. Moreover, the map for Room 7 doesn't really reflect the description. Further, the room is filled with water? But then a trap causes it to fill with water to reach the ledge above? Huh? (Granted, "Dungeon Features" says 4 ft deep ... but unless stated otherwise. Is this stating otherwise?)
4. Room 17 throws me. It's a room in the description. It's a canal on the map. I thought maybe it was a map device to reflect Room 17 was above Room 16, which was also circular, but then the small circle in Room 16 appears to be Room 16a, the scrag trap.
1. Entrance. The description seems to reflect entering the servant's door. However, the map (and description later) reflect entering the double doors from its balcony a great distance up.
The description for area 3 reflects what the PCs see if they open the doors at the base of the cliff when they first reach the castle. It is possible to enter the castle this way (by flying or climbing up the elevator shaft), but it's more likely the PCs will scale the cliff and arrive in area 1. Either method works, however, it doesn't really matter how the PCs get inside.
2. Room 6. I've had to keep going over this issue with the boats on how exactly you are to descend into the dungeon without being bounced to Ibex's antechamber.
There are two ways to reach the dungeon level from the castle. If you open up the canal (by using the runes from the book in area 6), it takes you beneath the seal in area 2 and eventually leads to area 7.
If you use the boatlift, you can go directly from area 6 to area 8, however if you break the surface of the water (either by diving into the water or swimming up from below the surface) while the boatlift is in the up position, you arrive in Ibex's antechamber. As long as you stay in a boat while you are using the boatlift, you are fine.
3. Room 7. This appears to be the entrance from Room 6, but I'm not clear how ... especially when Room 8 is described as being linked to Room 6. Moreover, the map for Room 7 doesn't really reflect the description. Further, the room is filled with water? But then a trap causes it to fill with water to reach the ledge above? Huh? (Granted, "Dungeon Features" says 4 ft deep ... but unless stated otherwise. Is this stating otherwise?)
The passageway leading to the north side of room 7 connects with the canal that flows beneath the seal in room 2.
The room matches the description perfectly, it is a circular room with a large pillar in the center. The only thing not on the map is the balcony on the pillar twenty feet below the ceiling, and 30 feet above the initial water level.
When the PCs first enter the room, the water is 4 feet deep. The trap causes the room to flood, raising the water level by 30 feet, bringing it up to the level of the balcony.
4. Room 17 throws me. It's a room in the description. It's a canal on the map. I thought maybe it was a map device to reflect Room 17 was above Room 16, which was also circular, but then the small circle in Room 16 appears to be Room 16a, the scrag trap.
Area 17 is more of a canal than a room. Its position on the map is correct. Basically, the seal of Wee Jas lies on the floor of the canal directly north of area 16.
Tealpeck's dungeon is a fairly complex area. But, I don't believe there are any inconsistencies between the maps and the text (although it is certainly possible).
I haven't gotten my print copy yet (the store was sold out thanks to that cover), but I can try to fill in based on what I submitted:
1. Entrance. The description seems to reflect entering the servant's door. However, the map (and description later) reflect entering the double doors from its balcony a great distance up.
The description on reaching the castle makes reference to area 3 (the service entrance), though area 1 is also a likely entry as Jeremy points out. I put the service entrance in to give poor climbers/flyers an easier way up, and the smashed elevator was just a means of foreshadowing conditions above.
2. Room 6. I've had to keep going over this issue with the boats on how exactly you are to descend into the dungeon without being bounced to Ibex's antechamber.
As I imagined it, the only way down to the dungeon initially is through the canal which leads to the seal in area 2. You are correct that getting into the pool while the chamber is in Ibex mode (special oil in the lamps etc.) should bounce you into his antechamber. Not sure if I included this in the final copy, but Tealpeck used to enjoy tricking his prisoners by letting them escape, find a boat, and ascend to the pool, only to get zapped into the abyss (out of the frying pan...). The description of area 6 is unclear, now that I reread it, but the intent is that, when the room is in normal mode (ie, normal oil in the lamps), the sacrificial pool is DISABLED, making it just a simple extension of the boatlift.
3. Room 7. This appears to be the entrance from Room 6, but I'm not clear how ... especially when Room 8 is described as being linked to Room 6. Moreover, the map for Room 7 doesn't really reflect the description. Further, the room is filled with water? But then a trap causes it to fill with water to reach the ledge above? Huh? (Granted, "Dungeon Features" says 4 ft deep ... but unless stated otherwise. Is this stating otherwise?)
I'd echo Jeremy's response to this room. I actually have a rough side-view sketch of the room to illustrate the balcony, but I never submitted it (it was really a sad drawing).
4. Room 17 throws me. It's a room in the description. It's a canal on the map. I thought maybe it was a map device to reflect Room 17 was above Room 16, which was also circular, but then the small circle in Room 16 appears to be Room 16a, the scrag trap.
Right. It's not really a room. That seal is just a picture painted atop the giant peg that makes up that trap.
Apologies for the confusion, and my thanks if you decide to play it through. Looking forward to hearing how it goes.
btw, I appreciate the use of "swamped" with problems. hee hee...
-Peter
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btw, I appreciate the use of "swamped" with problems. hee hee...
Glad you liked it. I thought it was cute when I posted it.
Just to be clear, it is an interesting adventure ... I was just having a hard time going between the text and the maps. You and Jeremy did well to clear up my confusion. Thanks.
As I imagined it, the only way down to the dungeon initially is through the canal which leads to the seal in area 2. You are correct that getting into the pool while the chamber is in Ibex mode (special oil in the lamps etc.) should bounce you into his antechamber. Not sure if I included this in the final copy, but Tealpeck used to enjoy tricking his prisoners by letting them escape, find a boat, and ascend to the pool, only to get zapped into the abyss (out of the frying pan...). The description of area 6 is unclear, now that I reread it, but the intent is that, when the room is in normal mode (ie, normal oil in the lamps), the sacrificial pool is DISABLED, making it just a simple extension of the boatlift.
The thing that threw me about room 7 was that it describes a secret door in the west wall and south wall, but they don't appear on the map. I guess it was a cartography error, easily fixed, but I was likewise confused by the boat lift and some other stuff, so this added to the confusion.
Let me echo Saurstalk in saying that it's an interesting premise and seems to be an interesting adventure (haven't actually finished reading it yet), but I think it could have benefited from a side-view map...
Edit: Actually, I still don't understand the boat lift. Let me describe how I think I'm interpreting it: To get it to work, you enter room 6, disable the demon illusion (or I guess...re-enable the Wee Jas illusion) by replacing the imp oil with regular oil. You pull the lever down, and the water drains, lowering your boat down to room 8. Presumably there's a door to room 8 (which doesn't appear on the map), which you can open at this point to get to other parts of dungeon level 1.
However, room 8 describes a series of tracks, pulleys and chains for the floating prisons "attached to the ceiling" and the central pillar. I'm confused again.
Edit: Actually, I still don't understand the boat lift. Let me describe how I think I'm interpreting it: To get it to work, you enter room 6, disable the demon illusion (or I guess...re-enable the Wee Jas illusion) by replacing the imp oil with regular oil. You pull the lever down, and the water drains, lowering your boat down to room 8. Presumably there's a door to room 8 (which doesn't appear on the map), which you can open at this point to get to other parts of dungeon level 1.
However, room 8 describes a series of tracks, pulleys and chains for the floating prisons "attached to the ceiling" and the central pillar. I'm confused again.
There should be a secret door marked on that central pillar, which IS the boatlift chamber (again, I haven't seen the final copy). The pulleys and chains were meant to once control the floating prisons, but they're ornamental and not meant to function. Here's an isometric view of the room that should hopefully clarify it a bit:
http://www.protopage.com/petervinogradov
Hey, thanks for the clarifying diagram Peter. I too was confused about the boat life (and room 17) but the illustration cleared it up. I was especially confused about where the levers were in room 17 and, again, the diagram cleared it up. Maybe Paizo can include that diagram in the web download for this issue.
Great adventure by the way - I love the canal idea. I think my players will be looking for a way to make this castle/dungeon their own!
Here's an isometric view of the room that should hopefully clarify it a bit:
http://www.protopage.com/petervinogradov
*Bing* Now I get it. That's pretty cool.
I really like the canal idea, as well. Definitely an original take on the typical dungeon crawl.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Thanks for the clarification Jeremy and Peter. I encountered similar problems in reading the adventure. It really could have benefited from a few 3-D maps. I couldn't figure out the passage into the real dungeon and the lack of balcony really had me confused. I think it's a great adventure, and generally does a good job of conveying the layout, but could use just a little more explanation for the slow readers out there (such as yours truly).
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There should be a secret door marked on that central pillar, which IS the boatlift chamber (again, I haven't seen the final copy). The pulleys and chains were meant to once control the floating prisons, but they're ornamental and not meant to function. Here's an isometric view of the room that should hopefully clarify it a bit:
http://www.protopage.com/petervinogradov
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but because I'm posting this, I guess I am. Is it possible that you could do a couple more isometric views - specifically Rooms 7 and 25. That map for Room 8 was awesome! (The area for 6 and 2 might be nice to see mapped out, too.)
Thanks.
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but because I'm posting this, I guess I am. Is it possible that you could do a couple more isometric views - specifically Rooms 7 and 25. That map for Room 8 was awesome! (The area for 6 and 2 might be nice to see mapped out, too.)
Thanks.
Not a problem. If I get the opportunity to write another one of these, I'll definitely model the whole dungeon in Sketchup...
Meantime, I've posted a cutaway iso of Room 7 to my protopage. I don't have the magazine yet, but from the online supplement it looks like they changed the mechanism by which you access the plant and prison areas. I marked the doors to those areas as "secret", but they might not be secret anymore. Note also that my iso shows two escape tunnels for the scrag, when there probably should only be one
I agree that room 25 could benefit from a model. I'll do one up, but may wait to post it until I see the magazine. Will let you know...
I'm reading the adventure now, so this thread is a real help!
Peter: Great maps, and thanks for the link! My mind is already racing with ideas for maps/illustrations like these and that website for games I run on-line.
Did you send them to Paizo with your adventure submission?
Peter,
What did you use to make those isometric maps?
Google Sketchup, a free download from google.
I didn't send these models to Paizo - in fact I only created them in response to the thread. The adventure is actually really old (the original playtesters were once a "playtest of the month" group when 3rd edition was just coming out), and was originally mapped in Campaign Cartographer (it used to have two more dungeon levels before it met Chris Perkins). I've never built a whole dungeon in Sketchup, but it's certainly possible. With Google's model-sharing functionality, I imagine the potential for creating and sharing dungeon features is huge.
There are a couple of models of the temple that I made years ago in Strata 3d. I did send those to Paizo, but they're really cheesy. I'll dig them up and put them on the protopage.
Protopage plug - Protopage is another great tool. The group I play with uses it to log adventures, keep track of treasure, etc. Really easy to use and very flexible.
There are a couple of models of the temple that I made years ago in Strata 3d. I did send those to Paizo, but they're really cheesy. I'll dig them up and put them on the protopage.
Edit: My mistake - I never sent temple models to Paizo - was looking at the wrong draft...
Also, I keep referring to scrag in area 7. Again looking at the wrong draft. Scrag were way too hard for that room.
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Hi all -
When this adventure came out, I saw that it was somewhat interesting but my players were not yet ready for it. Now that they've reached 5th and 6th level (I've got 8 players), I think that they are ready.
So I'm reading the adventure, and I am confused. I'm confused before I even get to the dungeon or anything else.
The map of Castle Tealpeck is brown and light tan. I don't know if the tan side is the "face" of the mountain or the part of the mountain that is accessible. So I'm not sure exactly where the castle is located and which things from the map are part of the castle and part of the inner aspects of the castle.
Being that I went to Peter's site, I saw awesome interior aspects of the castle, but I'd like to see what the outside of the castle looks like. From what I can tell, it's not so much of a castle but a manor.
I'm placing the adventure outside of Dyver's, near East Guard, so having a castle would be excellent. So what does the actual castle look like? Is the room #3 (shaped like a kidney on the south side of the map) an internal room, or a walled area?
Theocrat Issak