Dispel Magic: I have 2 questions

[Thewms]

Question 1

When using a Targeted Dispel on a creature that has multiple spells of the same CL affecting them, how is it determined which is attempted to be dispelled first (and second and so on)?

a) Randomly?
b) By spell level?
c) Alphabetically?
d) Caster’s Choice?
e) Target’s Choice?
f) GM’s Choice?
g) Other?

Question 2

Amiri is currently benefiting from the following spells
-Mage armor (CL 10)
-Enlarge Person (CL 9)
-False Life (CL 8)
-Bull’s Strength (CL 7)
-Haste (CL 6)
-Resist Energy (CL 5)

Ezren (Lvl 12) casts Greater Dispel Magic choosing a Targeted Dispel with Amiri as the target. Ezren is hoping to dispel Enlarge Person, Bull’s Strength, and Haste.

(Assuming Ezren knows all of the specific spells that Amiri is being affected by) Can Ezren choose those 3 specific spells to end via his Targeted Dispel?

The Text

Dispel Magic

Dispel Magic:Targeted Dispel wrote:

One ... creature ... is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check ... and compare that to the spell with highest caster level … . If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.

Dispel Magic wrote:

You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target … . You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.

Greater Dispel Magic: Targeted Dispel wrote:

This functions as a targeted dispel magic, but it can dispel one spell for every four caster levels you possess, starting with the highest level spells and proceeding to lower level spells.

[Pizza Lord]

1. GM's Choice. You could go Randomly if they all seem equally well, or you could go with the one that's been up the longest or has the longest duration remaining (those don't necessarily equate with power level or effectiveness).

2. He can choose to attempt to remove a specific spell, or if he just uses targeted dispel he will start at the highest and move to the lowest, like with dispel magic, only instead, he could remove up to three spells. He won't have a choice in that case, just hope and dice rolls. If he succeed on removing one, the effect won't end until he's succeeded once per four caster levels or the target has no more spells to check against.

[JoeElf]

For question #2 here, does a targeted Greater Dispel Magic use 1 roll and compare to each effect [up to 3 successes at 12th level], or roll until you hit 3 successes or run out of effects to target (a new roll once per effect)?

[Thewms]

Pizza Lord wrote:

2. He can choose to attempt to remove a specific spell, or if he just uses targeted dispel he will start at the highest and move to the lowest, like with dispel magic, only instead, he could remove up to three spells. He won't have a choice in that case, just hope and dice rolls. If he succeed on removing one, the effect won't end until he's succeeded once per four caster levels or the target has no more spells to check against.

So to be clear, you are saying that if your intention is to remove a specific spell/s then there are no differences between Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic?

Seems bizarre that...

Dispel Magic
-Remove one spell, random from highest CL to lowest
-or remove one specific spell if known

Greater Dispel Magic
-Remove one to five spell/s, random from highest CL to lowest
-or remove one specific spell if known

Greater Dispel Magic alters all of targeted dispel does it not?

Greater Dispel Magic wrote:

This functions as a targeted dispel magic, but it can dispel one spell for every four caster levels you possess

and yes, the last part of that sentence is...

Greater Dispel Magic wrote:

starting with the highest level spells and proceeding to lower level spells

but targeting a specific spell addresses this...

Dispel Magic wrote:

No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.

Which to me says "Don't trickle down", but if you have other chances available from Greater then you still have those to use.

Jacobim Mugatu wrote:

Doesn't anyone notice this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

EDIT

JoeElf wrote:

For question #2 here, does a targeted Greater Dispel Magic use 1 roll and compare to each effect [up to 3 successes at 12th level], or roll until you hit 3 successes or run out of effects to target (a new roll once per effect)?

If you aren't specifically targeting a spell/s then I believe you only make a single dispel check and compare that from highest to lowest CL as normal then...

"Repeat this process until you have dispelled..."
one per four caster levels
"spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell."

This is supported by Dispel Magic stating only a single dispel check is made and greater not altering that in any way. in addition, even when using Area Dispel it says...

Area Dispel wrote:

Roll one dispel check and apply that check to each creature in the area, as if targeted by dispel magic.

[Pizza Lord]

Thewms wrote:

So to be clear, you are saying that if your intention is to remove a specific spell/s then there are no differences between Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic? Seems bizarre that...

For the most part, you are correct. Back in 3.0/3.5 dispel magic capped at +10 to the caster's caster level check and greater dispel magic went up to 20, making it a better choice for higher level casters against higher level casters.

Be that as it may, for Pathfinder purposes (and your question), yes, they function identically with the exception that greater dispel magic can also remove spells that dispel magic cannot, like most curses. So if you were trying to remove a curse from your ally (and not debuff all of their own spells) you would use a targeted greater dispel magic over dispel magic.

JoeElf wrote:

For question #2 here, does a targeted Greater Dispel Magic use 1 roll and compare to each effect [up to 3 successes at 12th level], or roll until you hit 3 successes or run out of effects to target (a new roll once per effect)?

Like Thewms answered, you would use the one roll and check it against the higher caster level spell effect (not highest level spell) first, then move down the list (which means if all the effects were cast by the same caster, you probably fail against all of them). So it's possible that a 1st level spell, like mage armor cast on the fighter by the party's 7th-level mage will be checked against before the 3rd-level fly spell from the potion he drank.

dispel magic wrote:

You make one dispel check ... and compare that to the spell with highest caster level … . If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level.

Since greater dispel magic functions as dispel magic except where noted differently (and in this case that's the additional dispel per four caster levels) it would function the same.

[blahpers]

1. Unspecified. I go random.
2. Yes, if Ezren correctly names the spells he's targeting. Resolve the selected spell's dispel checks in descending level order. The "but" language in greater dispel magic allowing multiple spells to be dispelled overrides the original "no other spells or effect" language in dispel magic