As my group plays in German I use to translate the adventures into our mothertongue. (At least the names)
I begin with the name of the whole campaign:
For each word of the title I gave several possible translations, where I could I gave synonyms.
Savage = grausam (brutal, cruel),
primitiv (primitive, barbaric),
unzivilisiert (uncivilized, brutish),
wild (feral, ferocious);
Tide = die Flut (flood, high tide),
die Gezeiten,
die Strömung (current, drift),
der Strom (gush, stream),
die Tide,
der Trend (trend),
die Zeit (time);
I would translate "Savage" into "Wild" and for "Tide" I am not sure. Could "Tide" mean something like waves with the origin in the form of those fiendish black pearls? Like in "waves of destruction". "Wave" could be translated into "Welle", so we had an alliteration. I could go for the "Time" variant, as the preview mentioned something like those pearls are time bombs of sorts.
So my translation for "Savage Tide" would be "Wilde Wellen" or "Wilde Zeiten".
Hm... I am not totally happy with that. What do you guys think? Pleas let me know.
Well, primitiv and unziviliert are right out, I think.
Wilde Welle and Wilde Zeiten have other connotations to me. Wilde Zeiten sounds to me more of party time :-). Wilde Welle - its just a gut feeling, bit it doesn´t hit it right.
Tide seems to connotate something nigh-unstoppable in this context, as in to stem against the tide, fighting desperately against it. Perhaps Flut would be more fitting than Welle.
Grausame Fluten ? So it could be cruel tide in english ? Wilde Fluten ? Gezeiten oder Tide in german are too soft IMO. Wilde Fluten sounds not that bad (of course, its my idea :-))
just my 2c
Stefan
"Gefaehrliche Flut?" I know that savage doesn't mean dangerous in any way, but I think maybe that's the closest translation without sounding too dorky or misleading.
Here's some other ideas:
"Das Brutale Meer"
"See Ohne Vergebnis"
...now I'm getting dorky...will stop now...Tschuess and good luck! I would love to play D&D in German someday.
Hmm, i've got a suggestion that doesn't translate the title word by word but might capture what its all about. And it sounds good, too...:)
"Die Erbarmungslose Flut"
That sounds really good, I think.
Let´s wait until the outline of the AP is published until we decide how to translate, but Absinths idea is good.Stefan
Hmm, i've got a suggestion that doesn't translate the title word by word but might capture what its all about. And it sounds good, too...:)
"Die Erbarmungslose Flut"
For those of us who don't know German but are interested in languages and translating, would you mind explaining the connotations of "Erbarmungslose," Absinth?
Merciless = erbarmunglos (sounds vaguely Klingon if you say it with some good guttural German inflection)
Good idea, Absinth!
Merciless = erbarmunglos (sounds vaguely Klingon if you say it with some good guttural German inflection)
Good idea, Absinth!
Danke schoen, F2K
After a lot of thinking I came to the conclusion to name the ap "Gezeiten der Grausamkeit".
Hmm, i've got a suggestion that doesn't translate the title word by word but might capture what its all about. And it sounds good, too...:)
"Die Erbarmungslose Flut"
Think that the technically correct form would be: "Die Wilden Gezeiten" however I like how "Die Erbarmungslose Flut" feels...
OK--Now I'm a bit curious how "Savage Tide" translates into other languages.
Here's a stab at two:
French: la maree sauvage (maybe Silenttimo or one of our other amis francophones can help with this one, but my sense of "sauvage" is that its meaning is quite close to its English cognate).
Chinese: yeman chaoliu, or perhaps just ye chao. But this isn't quite right--yeman means "wild" or savage in the sense of "barbaric," but doesn't give quite the right connotations of bestial fury. Maybe "xiongkuang chaoliu," which gives connotations of bestial fierceness to the point of madness, or "xiongmeng chaoliu," since the character meng connotes both animal vigor and suddenness.
Any others?
Peruhain made a light bulb go off - savage and barbaric are similar enough -
How about - "Barbarische Gezeiten"?
I just don't see "Gezeiten" as portraying the nautical image of "Tide."
Translating is a difficult art! The literal translation is often not the best. Especially when you translate something like a book title or adventure title, you really have to think carefully whether the words you have chosen convey the right nuances. And sometimes this is really hard because the original title plays upon multiple connotations that can't all be captured in a single word in the target language. This is especially true for abstract words like "savage," but as we see here its even difficult sometimes with more concrete words.
Does "flut" not carry the secondary and abstract connotation of an unstoppable trend or momentum, the way "tide" does in English?
No doubt, there's no right or wrong answer there. Barbarische Gezeiten means "barbaric times" to me. Savage Tide has a nautical image in English. It's hard to find the right words in German.
No doubt, there's no right or wrong answer there. Barbarische Gezeiten means "barbaric times" to me. Savage Tide has a nautical image in English. It's hard to find the right words in German.
Oops. I was editing while you were responding.
Well, I'm not really qualified to discuss the nuances of translation into German. But judging from Aureus' original post:
Tide = die Flut (flood, high tide)
It seems to me that "die flut" carries the image of an unstoppable current of water flowing inward from a wild sea--what we might associate with a high tide or a flood tide.
Doesn't "gezeiten" tie in more to the idea of a periodic motion, a regular, predictable cycle of flooding and ebbing? ("Zeit" = time, IIRC).
Since the Savage Tide both connects the AP with a seafaring theme and refers to the unstoppable flood or current of savagery and violence that flows outward over everything nearby when the pearls are triggered, it seems to me that a word that conveys the idea of the inrushing ocean would be most suitable.
It's easier in Chinese, I guess, since "chaoliu" means both a tidal current and a trend or tide in human affairs. I would have got myself in trouble if I had suggested "gaochao," which literally means "high tide," but also suggests a climax in either the dramatic or the sexual sense. Ah, the perils of translation!
Edit--further research indicates that the original meaning of the English word tide is "a period of time" (as in Eastertide), and that it is etymologically related to the German "zeit." Apparently the word was applied to the periodic rise and fall of the ocean as a secondary meaning. Does "zeit" carry any nautical connotations at all? I think the "tide" in Savage Tide is primarily intended as a nautical metaphor. "Savage Flood" would have conveyed the same basic meaning, but "Tide" has a nicer ring to it. Although the plot does indicate the possibility of a "Savage Age" (i.e. "tide" in the sense of a period of time) resulting if Demogorgon's designs are realized, I don't think that is primarily what the title of the AP is supposed to be pointing at.
Well, I'm not really qualified to discuss the nuances of translation into German. But judging from Aureus' original post:
Tide = die Flut (flood, high tide)
It seems to me that "die flut" carries the image of an unstoppable current of water flowing inward from a wild sea--what we might associate with a high tide or a flood tide.
Doesn't "gezeiten" tie in more to the idea of a periodic motion, a regular, predictable cycle of flooding and ebbing? ("Zeit" = time, IIRC).
Since the Savage Tide both connects the AP with a seafaring theme and refers to the unstoppable flood or current of savagery and violence that flows outward over everything nearby when the pearls are triggered, it seems to me that a word that conveys the idea of the inrushing ocean would be most suitable.
It's easier in Chinese, I guess, since "chaoliu" means both a tidal current and a trend or tide in human affairs. I would have got myself in trouble if I had suggested "gaochao," which literally means "high tide," but also suggests a climax in either the dramatic or the sexual sense. Ah, the perils of translation!
Peruhain is correct - "Doesn't "gezeiten" tie in more to the idea of a periodic motion, a regular, predictable cycle of flooding and ebbing?"
Tides are predictable and measured by time - or used to measure time. Ergo my preferance for "Gezeiten" as "tide"
I don't care for "Flut" because it's cognate is "flood" not "tide." If it was "Savage Flood", "Flut" would fit rather well - but not with tide. When translating you have to consider both languages in question. Hence it is such a pain ;o)
But, I personally think to much emphasis is being put on that - "barbarisch" in place of "wild" was the focus of my suggestion.
There is even the term "Tide" in german, only used in a nautical context - it is a terminus technicus for "Gezeiten".
Gezeiten is a more poetic term, and has other connotations - you could say something like "Die Gezeiten des Lebens", translating roughly into "the tides of live", meaning the up and down in ones life, and anybody will know what you mean. So Gezeiten would be a close translation of tide.
Savage is more diffcult to translate. It could mean wild, cruel, primitive or uncivilized, depending on context. In this case, I would think that grausam (cruel) perhaps conveys the connotations most closely.
This would result in "Grausame Gezeiten", which is a nice alliteration as well as capturing the intended meaning perhaps most closely. So, Aureus has a good idea in translating thusly, if you want a literal translation.
OTOH, Flut (flood) is perhaps a translation conveying the "unstoppable" aspect of this tide better, even if not literal. And I still like the idea and sound of "Die erbarmungslose Flut" as translation - it is by no means literal, but captures the feeling very well.
Stefan
OK--Now I'm a bit curious how "Savage Tide" translates into other languages.
Any others?
Finnish...tide translates as "vuorovesi" but I think I should go for "vuoksi", meaning high tide.
Savage, hmm...again liteal translation, "villi" doesn't sound that good even if it has that alliteration thing going on...Villi Vuoksi sounds like a cartoon character."Raaka" means raw or brutal, "julma" cruel or harsh...somehow I like the sound of Julma Vuoksi so I suggest that.
To me this is a very interesting thread. Thank you everyone for your taking part in the translation of the AP. It turns out that even its title is hard to translate.
The first adventure plays in Sasserine as do the next two ones. It is called "There Is No Honor" which I would translate with "Es Gibt Keine Ehre". A very literal translation.
Sasserine derives from the name of its founder and stays as it is.
But its seven districts are not that easily translated.
District = Distrikt, Bezirk or perhaps quarter = Viertel;
Azure District:
azure = Azur, azurblau, himmelblau (sky blue);
As it is Sasserine's foremost port district I would translate it literally in this regard "Hafenviertel", but I am still searching for a better one.
Champion's District:
champion = Champion, Vorkämpfer, Verfechter (protectionist);
Isn't a champion some sort of a heroe? So I would call it "Heldenheim" (Heroes' Home). This name makes me think of a medieval city or town consisting of several smaller settlements grown together. The former village was famous for its athletes and warriors etc.
Cudgel District:
cudgel = Knüppel;
The name of this district refers directly to its corresponding deity St. Cuthbert. I would call it "Knüppelburg" (Cudgel Castle). In medieval Europe churches were places to hide from enemies in war times, so where there was no castle the church functioned as one.
Merchant District:
merchant = Händler, Kaufmann;
This is Sasserines economic centre and its name could be easily translated literally leaving it "Händlerviertel".
Noble District:
noble = Adel (in this place);
As with Azure and Merchant District it is simply "Adelsviertel".
Shadowshore District:
shadow = Schatten; shore = Ufer, Küste (coast)
As my favourite quarter its name is just perfect and needs no heavy thinking on its translation as the exact equivalent carries the same message. So it is "Schattenküste".
Sunrise District:
sunrise = Sonnenaufgang;
In my opionion the literal translation doesn't have the feel of a quarter with heavy druidic or elven influences. So I would call it "Sonnenhain" (Sun's Grove).
Please let me hear what you think.
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I like "Die Erbarmungslose Flut", but in order to have a better understanding I'd need to read a bit more about the plot of the AP (and i will not do that, because I'm going to play it).
"Shackled City" had a good translation into "Stadt in Ketten" by Berandor, that I adopted.
"Age of Worms" has similar problems for translation as age means era, nominal age, and it is difficult to get a catchy Titel: "Das Zeitalter der Würmer" does not hold my interest for too long.
Azure district: hmmm... Hafenviertel is too generic. How about "Landungsbrücken"?
Champion's district: I like "Heldenheim"
dito "Knüppelburg".... but perhaps something similar will come to my mind.
Merchant's district: hmmm.... "Hanseviertel"? (Does someone realize, that I've been living in Hamburg for a long time? Nope? Okay.).
There will be another name for "Adelsviertel" in about two weeks, given the population of the city. I need to wait for my arrival of the player's guide, so I can say something about the look and feel of the district. To come up with a name, that catches the atmosphere of the district. Something like "Mauergarten", if the houses of the nobles are all walled off to the streets.
I wrote an extended, pedantic discussion last night on the dangers of literal translation, but the computer pixies cast disintegrate on it. Probably just as well. Suffice it to say that I think in translating the title you need to pay attention to exactly what in the plot of the AP "savage tide" refers to--it's a wave of uncontrolled, violent, bestial madness that is triggered by a very specific occurrence (since players are lurking I'll be vague here, but the reference is in Dungeon 138, p. 105). So, the "tide" is playing on the nautical metaphor of an unstoppable wave of water rising up and washing over . . . civilization. From the explanations of gezeiten and flut listed above, I'd guess that flut captures this more accurately, even though zeit is the literal cognate of the English word tide. The primary meaning of tide in contemporary English is the rise and fall of the ocean, not "time" or a "period of time," which is now an archaic usage except in certain expressions like Eastertide.
As for translating "There is no honor" does German have a saying equivalent to "there is no honor among thieves?" I believe that is the reference here, in connection with the primary adversaries of the adventure.
On the Azure Quarter, it derives its name from the Azure Temple, which serves three ocean-related deities. James Jacobs could tell you for sure, but I'd guess the name is a reference to the color of the ocean. So whatever color you'd use to describe a beautiful, tropical blue sea in German might fit. Or something meaning "Quarter of the Sea Gods."
This game Aureus has invented is fun. Thanks Magdalena T. for contributing in another language no one else on these boards knows!
It's a bit hard to translate "There is no honor ..." into Chinese, since to my knowledge there is no Chinese counterpart to the saying "There is no honor among thieves." (Chinese concepts of honor are a bit different from European ones, anyway. One might say "Zei wu chengyi"--the thief lacks good faith, or "zei wu yiqi"--the thief lacks personal loyalty [to his brethren], but I think they would ring strangely in Chinese ears. There is a good Chinese saying that does not translate the title "There is no honor" at all literally, but fits the plot, however: "Jia zei nan fang"--A thief within the home (or family) is difficult to guard against.
My French dictionaries are not at hand. "Il n'y a pas d'honneur?" Silenttimo help us out!
As I am translating Handout #1 from "There Is No Honor" at the moment I realize I have not a hint of an idea what a skink is. It appears in the name of "Blue Skink Lane".
Can anybody tell me what it is?
As I am translating Handout #1 from "There Is No Honor" at the moment I realize I have not a hint of an idea what a skink is. It appears in the name of "Blue Skink Lane".
Can anybody tell me what it is?
A skink is a type of lizard. =)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skink
"Shackled City" had a good translation into "Stadt in Ketten" by Berandor, that I adopted.
That is very fitting, thank you.
"Age of Worms" has similar problems for translation as age means era, nominal age, and it is difficult to get a catchy Titel: "Das Zeitalter der Würmer" does not hold my interest for too long.
It sounds like an anglers dream that way :-)
What about "Die Ära des Wurms"? Not perfect either, I know.
Azure district: hmmm... Hafenviertel is too generic. How about "Landungsbrücken"?
Landungsbrücken is really too much Hamburg-style :-)
Azure has sky-blue as an association, rather than ocean blue. "Himmelsviertel" (Heaven´s Quarter) does not come close to it, either. "Tiefblau" (deep blue) - Tiefblaues Viertel just sounds silly. Blaues Viertel (blue quarter) - sounds like people there are either always drunk or not working (or both). That is difficult, but just Hafenviertiel does simply not sit well.
Champion's district: I like "Heldenheim"dito "Knüppelburg".... but perhaps something similar will come to my mind.
These two are all right, I think.
Merchant's district: hmmm.... "Hanseviertel"? (Does someone realize, that I've been living in Hamburg for a long time? Nope? Okay.).
Goldviertel ? Or, if you have to have your Hanse reference, Pfefferviertel ? What is the main commodity there ?
There will be another name for "Adelsviertel" in about two weeks, given the population of the city. I need to wait for my arrival of the player's guide, so I can say something about the look and feel of the district. To come up with a name, that catches the atmosphere of the district. Something like "Mauergarten", if the houses of the nobles are all walled off to the streets.
Oberstadt is always nice and simple to convey that.
Stefan
Sometimes I seem to forget the treasure trove of knwoledge called wiki. Thanks Anthony :)
But here is my next questioned, perhaps suited for one of the creators of the ap. The founder of the Witchwardens: male or female?
Perhaps a translation for the Merchant District could be "Perlenweg" (Pearl's Way). Just a thought.:)
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Interesting how many german speaking readers found this thread! :-) Actually I have similar problems with my group for most D&D supplements are english.
The past offered some ridiculous translations (official ones!!), e.g. Waterdeep getting Tiefwasser (yes, you guess right: that is Deep Water).
Here is my take on the discussion so far:
Savage Tide = Wilde Flut.
Something not mentioned before, but surely affirmable by Oliver from Hamburg is that the word "Tide" exists in both english and german. I remember geography lessons at school when we learned about "Tidenhub" (movement of the tides).
The savage tide won't be about low tide, so flood/ Flut should catch the meaning. And it is supposed to be a ferocious/ savage/ wild flood: So why not "Wilde Flut" or more dramatic "Flut des Grauens" (flood of horror)?
District = Distrikt, Bezirk or perhaps quarter = Viertel;
There is also the translation "Quartier". I recommend to not stay too uniform in translating or the result will sound "sterile". So why not choosing intermittedly different names (Quartier, Viertel or just a plain name)?
Azure District:azure = Azur, azurblau, himmelblau (sky blue);
As it is Sasserine's foremost port district I would translate it literally in this regard "Hafenviertel", but I am still searching for a better one.
Hafenviertel sounds good. More literal alternatives: Blauviertel, Himmelsquartier(?), Seeviertel (sea quarter). The latter ones sound unusual, but maybe odd sounding names sound truer to some players' ears.
Champion's District:champion = Champion, Vorkämpfer, Verfechter (protectionist);
Isn't a champion some sort of a heroe? So I would call it "Heldenheim" (Heroes' Home). This name makes me think of a medieval city or town consisting of several smaller settlements grown together. The former village was famous for its athletes and warriors etc.
This quarter contains some kind of gladiatoral arena, doesn't it? Champion could be translated as Sieger/ victor.
So my proposals are: Siegerviertel, Gladiatorenviertel or more profane: Spiele-Quartier.
Cudgel District:
cudgel = Knüppel;
The name of this district refers directly to its corresponding deity St. Cuthbert. I would call it "Knüppelburg" (Cudgel Castle). In medieval Europe churches were places to hide from enemies in war times, so where there was no castle the church functioned as one.
In german you rather think about oppression but protection when talking about cudgels, but maybe this is different in Greyhawk... not sure about the context.
Merchant District:
merchant = Händler, Kaufmann;
This is Sasserines economic centre and its name could be easily translated literally leaving it "Händlerviertel".
Good proposals, but think e.g. about hanseatic Pfeffersäcke (hard to translate in english). The description in Dungeon hinted at the spices in the backlands of Sasserine which provide most of its wealth. So one more proposal: Pfefferviertel (Pepper Quarter, surely a bit derisive). If you come up with any more exotic spice name, use it. ;-)
Noble District:
noble = Adel (in this place);
As with Azure and Merchant District it is simply "Adelsviertel".
Good translation. I am just wondering how often noble districts are officially called noble districts. Are today's rich people areas called "wealthy district"? I don't come up with a better name right now, though. Maybe some geographical/ architectonical landmark could lend its name.
Shadowshore District:
shadow = Schatten; shore = Ufer, Küste (coast)
As my favourite quarter its name is just perfect and needs no heavy thinking on its translation as the exact equivalent carries the same message. So it is "Schattenküste".
Hhhmm... sounds too melodramatic to me, a whole coast in one district? (but that is just a matter of taste). I'd lean towards Schattenufer, Schwarzkai (Black Kay) or something similar.
Sunrise District:
sunrise = Sonnenaufgang;
In my opionion the literal...
There is a different expression in german, not as exact, but maybe an alternative? "Dämmerung" (sunset or sunrise), rather rarely used by now and therefore a good name for a district, you don't even need to add quarter, district or whatever...
Just another opinion ;-)
Happy translating! :-)
Günther
P.S.
Something bothering me about Forgotten Realms locale names: there are a lot of castles, keeps, strongholds etc.
I never came up with anything but the translation "Burg". There don't seem to be that many differentiations in german castle names. Most castles here have names of their own and don't have "Burg" or something similar in their name.
Just to add an alternative translation for "Savage Tide": I'm going to use "Flut des Verderbens".
Cheers, Marcus
From my travels in Germany, there always seemed to be an "Altstadt" in nearly every town. Could the noble district be considered the Altstadt? Was it the first area settled? In New Orleans, we have the French Quarter, which in French is called "Vieux Carre'" or old quarter. Isn't the castle also situated in the noble district? Would it be reasonable to add Schloss or some variant?
As far as the Azure district, I'm very sure the implied meaning is the blue of the sea. In English we have the term "maritime" referring to sea-faring (i.e. the Canadian Maritime Provinces). Is there a Deutsch equivalent?
I like the idea of using other endings to the names instead of using only quarter. Got to be careful with all those quarters. They begin to add up to more than a whole!
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From my travels in Germany, there always seemed to be an "Altstadt" in nearly every town. Could the noble district be considered the Altstadt? Was it the first area settled? In New Orleans, we have the French Quarter, which in French is called "Vieux Carre'" or old quarter. Isn't the castle also situated in the noble district? Would it be reasonable to add Schloss or some variant?
As far as the Azure district, I'm very sure the implied meaning is the blue of the sea. In English we have the term "maritime" referring to sea-faring (i.e. the Canadian Maritime Provinces). Is there a Deutsch equivalent?
I like the idea of using other endings to the names instead of using only quarter. Got to be careful with all those quarters. They begin to add up to more than a whole!
Hello Waltero,
nice ideas. You are right in that handling quarter names without a clear "marker" (= quarter ending) makes it more difficult for the players.
"Altstadt" (old town district): Here old town districts usually are the result of city growth across the city walls when living space inside the walls didn't suffice any more. The districts outside of the walls (which were torn down in the late 1800s in most cities) were the new town districts.
If anyone is interested in that topic (really off off topic), here are some photos: Severin's Gate Tower in Cologne (just a few meters from my appartment) in 1855 , in 1880 (both from www.bilderarchiv.de, great place for historic photos of places here), and finally in 1991. During excravation works for a new underground line parts of the old bastions were detected (-> german article).
Anyway: You can see on these pics that the walls were torn down when the city "outgrew" its walls. Everything inside the former walls is called "Altstadt".
Back to topic:
As far as I know Sasserine is quite a coherent whole. At least I don't remember any hint at an evolution of city districts. On the other hand you are right in that castles usually stand in the oldest parts of places.
Azure district: 100%ly agreed, it's a clear pointer to the sea.
An equivalent to "maritime" would be "See-...". In your example the maritime/ sea provinces would be the "See-Provinzen" in german. Sometimes english and german are still quite alike. ;-)
Greetings,
Günther
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OK--Now I'm a bit curious how "Savage Tide" translates into other languages.
Here's a stab :
French: la maree sauvage (maybe Silenttimo or one of our other amis francophones can help with this one, but my sense of "sauvage" is that its meaning is quite close to its English cognate).
Any others?
I don't really like "sauvage".
I have a sense of brutality, suddenness for the translation.I would say "furieux / furieuse" or "déchaîné" (unchained : you can no longer control it, and it is used also for weather at sea).
As for tide, I would say "marée", as you wrote, for my first choice. But I don't like it.
Maybe "flot".
Maybe also "lame de fond" (undercurrent) : when it comes to the surface, "la lame de fond" will have disastrous effects.
And you can use this for something else than water / sea.
Ok, let's say : "Lame de fond".
Anyway, it's not that important, since my players don't need to know the name of the AP...
It was easier for most of other words / names :
- cudgel : "Gourdin"
- shadowshore : "Rivombre"
- Sunrise : "Auroréa"
- whirling fury : "furie tournoyante"
- Scarlet Brotherhood : "Confrérie écarlate"
I haven't found something that I like for "lodge of the seekers".
I have translated it by "loge des chercheurs", but it looks like a bunch of savants researching new chemicals or formulas...
And I haven't translated family names...
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Hi there,
we should re-christian this thread into STAP translations! :)
The french translations were very insightful and I am wondering why a subtropical area couldn't have spanish or french names.
But now I am wondering: Did nobody in Germany get Dungeon #140 yet? As I told I am waiting for my second sample, after the first one was stolen! :((
Greetings,
Günther
Oh yes this thread should be really renamed. Some silly questions of mine turned into a really interesting discussion at least for me. :)
BTW I got my issue 140 today. It just arrived and I was able to take it out of the mail package not even the shelf.
Merci, Silenttimo.
Would you use "lame de fond" to refer to a tsunami, like the one that hit Sumatra and Thailand and Sri Lanka a couple of years ago?
I guess I must be a real language nerd, as I'm finding it interesting to see how the nuances of apparently similar words differ so much between English, French, and German.
What about "courant furieux," or "torrent furieux"?
How has everyone translated "shadow pearl"?
What about "the Bullywug Gambit"? (I'm not sure that this is actually the best title for the module, although it does have a good ring to it. A gambit is an opening move in chess designed to draw out your opponent and make him vulnerable, or by extension, a stratagem. I'm not quite sure I see the pirate captain's dispatch of the bullywugs as a stratagem, exactly--vendetta or reprisal might be better words to apply to that part of the adventure. And really the key dramatic moment is the encounter with the after-effects of the shadow pearl's activation. The Bay of Ravenous Beasts--"L'Anse aux betes devorants," perhaps?
I know no one really cares, but I'd call shadow pearls "yin zhu" in Chinese (yin as in "yin and yang"--its original meaning is "shadow," but it also refers to an abstract metaphysical principle associated with the feminine or negative, so it fits quite well). As for the Bullywug Gambit's Chinese title, it's tempting to translate it as "Egui wan" (The Bay of Hungry Demons). "Egui" (hungry ghosts or hungry demons) captures the sort of demonic hunger afflicting the shadow pearl's victims, but has a particular connotation--a dead person who is not cared for by his descendents (literally fed, since Chinese traditionally leave offerings of food by the graves of deceased ancestors) becomes a "hungry ghost," a soul condemned to perpetual hunger that wanders from place to place, taking out its demonic fury by bringing bad fortune and even death to the living. Typically beggars or other people who die on the road with no one to see to the proper last rites become egui. So I'm not sure this title exactly captures what's going on at Smuggler's Cove.
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Merci, Silenttimo.
Would you use "lame de fond" to refer to a tsunami, like the one that hit Sumatra and Thailand and Sri Lanka a couple of years ago?
Not really : "lame de fond" is undercurrent ; it's quite violent, but you can't see it, so you won't be able to prepare, it will come very suddently and violently (because noone saw it coming).
It's not a perfect translation of "Savage tide", but I think it's very appropriate...I guess I must be a real language nerd, as I'm finding it interesting to see how the nuances of apparently similar words differ so much between English, French, and German.
What about "courant furieux," or "torrent furieux"?
How has everyone translated "shadow pearl"?
"Courant" is too much related to water / sea. "Furieux" is ok for "savage", something that you can't control.
As for "torrent", it's really for a tiny river coming furiously from mountains' heights. It doesn't translate all that is under the title "Savage tide".The thing is that with "lame de fond", it could refer to something on sea, but also to something else (it could be used in an electoral issue, for example, if someone not expected at all collects lots of votes).
What about "the Bullywug Gambit"? (I'm not sure that this is actually the best title for the module, although it does have a good ring to it. A gambit is an opening move in chess designed to draw out your opponent and make him vulnerable, or by extension, a stratagem. I'm not quite sure I see the pirate captain's dispatch of the bullywugs as a stratagem, exactly--vendetta or reprisal might be better words to apply to that part of the adventure. And really the key dramatic moment is the encounter with the after-effects of the shadow pearl's activation. The Bay of Ravenous Beasts--"L'Anse aux betes devorants," perhaps?[...chinese translations...]
I would translate "gambit" by "pari" (a bet).
It doesn't sound great, but seems ok.As for "bay of ravenous beasts", maybe "la baie des bêtes affamées".
"Shadow pearl" would be "la perle d'ombre"... quite simple indeed.
Nice talking like this...
But I do not translate everything in my campaign (too long, and keeping some english words maintains a sense of mystery).
Thanks, Silenttimo. This is informative, and good for my very rusty French. I used "anse" instead of "baie" because I thought it carried the connotation of a small cove (as used in lots of place-names in Quebec and Newfoundland), and so would be appropriate to describe the tiny, hidden "Smuggler's Cove." But I bet you probably don't have #140 yet in France, so you haven't seen the details of "the Bullywug Gambit." I like "pari"--it describes nicely to what Vanthus tries to do in the adventure. Another way of retitling the adventure might be "Vanthus Vanderboren's Big Gamble"--le grand pari de Vanthus Vanderboren.
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Thanks, Silenttimo. This is informative, and good for my very rusty French. I used "anse" instead of "baie" because I thought it carried the connotation of a small cove (as used in lots of place-names in Quebec and Newfoundland), and so would be appropriate to describe the tiny, hidden "Smuggler's Cove." But I bet you probably don't have #140 yet in France, so you haven't seen the details of "the Bullywug Gambit." I like "pari"--it describes nicely to what Vanthus tries to do in the adventure. Another way of retitling the adventure might be "Vanthus Vanderboren's Big Gamble"--le grand pari de Vanthus Vanderboren.
Yep, you're just right for "anse" : it sounds better, but when I replied to your former post, I went too fast !!
The retitle is nice !
And I did receive Dungeon 140 ! Last week (friday IIRC) : "bullywug gambit" is great, and I enjoyed it very well.
I like the whole stilts idea, as well as the woman pirate (I can't wait to RP this, since description is very important for this part, to let players know she is VERY good at fighting).
Sorry James, but i like this 2nd module even better than yours !!
I have it! :)
Thanks, Silenttimo. This is informative, and good for my very rusty French. I used "anse" instead of "baie" because I thought it carried the connotation of a small cove (as used in lots of place-names in Quebec and Newfoundland), and so would be appropriate to describe the tiny, hidden "Smuggler's Cove." But I bet you probably don't have #140 yet in France, so you haven't seen the details of "the Bullywug Gambit." I like "pari"--it describes nicely to what Vanthus tries to do in the adventure. Another way of retitling the adventure might be "Vanthus Vanderboren's Big Gamble"--le grand pari de Vanthus Vanderboren.Yep, you're just right for "anse" : it sounds better, but when I replied to your former post, I went too fast !!
The retitle is nice !
And I did receive Dungeon 140 ! Last week (friday IIRC) : "bullywug gambit" is great, and I enjoyed it very well.
I like the whole stilts idea, as well as the woman pirate (I can't wait to RP this, since description is very important for this part, to let players know she is VERY good at fighting).
Sorry James, but i like this 2nd module even better than yours !!
Thanks once again for your input, Silenttimo. This is a fun exercise and I hope our German friends don't mind my extending it to other languages. (Sorry for the semi-threadjacking, and I'll be happy to move this part of the discussion to a different thread if people think I should.)
So, "L'anse des betes affamees" or "le grand pari de Vanthus Vanderboren" would both work pretty well as French titles for "the Bullywug Gambit." In Chinese I'll combine both ideas into the title "Xiong Gang Da Shi," (lit. "the Great Enterprise at Savage Harbor"--da shi, "great enterprise" or "great affair" carries connotations of an earthshattering transition that affects "all under Heaven" or the entire civilized world.
Nick Logue (a fellow "sinophone" and "sinophile," incidentally) will be happy to hear your praise, if he reads this thread. I'm quite sure he got his idea for the stiltwalkers and the interesting parade floats in part from pageants in China, although I'm sure in the old days Europe had such things, too--Mardi Gras and all that.
And James can take some credit for all the adventures--this is his AP just like AoW was Erik Mona's. James' excellent setting of Sasserine makes the parade possible. Bravo! Wansui! Huzzah!
I start "There is no Honor" tonight (en anglais), and I can hardly wait! Vive le jeu!
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I do not mind. I am interested in interesting new translations in my german campaign - they don't have to be german, though. ;-)
Apart from that: It seems to take a bit longer to contribute new german translation proposals (still no Dungeon #140 here. :( ). So I am quite thankful that you keep this thread in the more recent part of STAP postings... ;-)
Greetings,
Günther
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I start "There is no Honor" tonight (en anglais), and I can hardly wait! Vive le jeu!
I just had my 1st session today, and I think I will write down what happens here (french speaking, and very friendly site !) :
http://www.blackguard.ca/forum/viewforum.php?f=11
We stopped on the "blue nixie", everybody killed except for a charmed ruffian, and the rhagodessa on the loose, killing every creature in the hold...