Director of Narrative
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This is for all us DMs that have had a player do something that was a stretch or a loophole or just a smoke/drink induced interpretation of the rules. Today I was talking with an old gaming friend that I don't have the pleasure of gaming with anymore and we were talking about our respective campaigns and the things our players have tried to pull.
I'm a relatively new DM to 3.5 (and 3.0 for that matter) because everyone else got a chance before me and to be quite honest I was a bit overwhelmed by the vast amount of rules in these new editions. My first post here in fact was after my second session of my current campaign and I asked the community here about a player's interpretation of the spell Targeting Ray. He argued that it would pin-point a creature that had turned invisible after the spell was cast on him.
Many of these player tricks/misinterpretaions happen in the heat of combat and sometimes it's not worth looking up/arguing the point at the moment. We eventually look it up after the game and prove/disprove the action. One of the newest ones we discussed was using the spell Chain of Eyes and a familiar to direct spells using line of effect with the now improved line of sight, until the important word was pointed out in the text of line of effect that it had to be a "straight" line.
There are more examples, but I wanted to get the discussion started about things the rest of ya'll have run into in your experience so that we all can benefit from each other's experiences and make a good ruling at that moment instead of later after the damage in done.
Well, my players weren't trying to "pull" anything; we all just misread the feat. And, this was 3.0. For a long time, we thought Many Shot allowed firing up to 4 arrows per attack, not realizing that it was a standard action, and not realizing the range limitation. That poor dragon died so quickly....
And there's one player (you know who you are...) who, everytime he plays a spellcaster, ends up misreading a spell description and sends everyone on a frantic search to find out what the thing actually does. Sorry, that's not too specific...
I was running The Styes a few months back and we had a hard time in an encounter with the skum rogues inside Dory's Hulk (in the first room). The rogue was readying an action to attack the first thing that moved, and the skum were readied to attack the first thing that entered the room, leading me to be very confused about who would go first and a long debate (which took away from the game and I shouldn't have gone into; I should have just made an ad hoc ruling and gone on) from a "realism" viewpoint.
A week later, completely by happenstance, I found the line in the DMG that stated readied actions can't be taken outside of combat- doing so simply means you won't be surprised (as in, you participate in the surprise round) if said action occurs.
Oh, and for a long, long time we thought wielding a weapon two-handed gave 1.5 x Str to attack as well as damage. That was a mistake....
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Check out my post about leomund's tiny hut. My player came to me before the game laughing about how he found a cool spell. He told me it was the hut and my response was "yeah, it's a cool spell. I've thought about using it for the concealment bonus and launching ranged attacks, but worried about the lack of mobility. But go for it, it's a cool idea."
But at the table, he wanted to play the spell as if it were a one sided wall of force that kept enemies out and let him rain death from within. He tried using it to create darkness. He tried moving it around and leaving it and coming back. He basically tried to break it in half.
He's a damn good player, and I generally approve of creative thinking with respect to spells, but I just wish he had talked with me about these aspects before play. And he's crazy to even begin to think that a third level spell is a one sided wall of force.
~gives a shocked look~ Player try to pull a fast one? ~horrified tone in my voice~ Say it isn't so! Players *never* try to do that! ~glares at you~ How dare you insinuate that players try to pull stunts like that!!!
~grins and winks~
I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance. I gave him a blank stare, waited a beat, and moved on. It was a classic moment.
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Director of Narrative
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Check out my post about leomund's tiny hut....
Your post and my recent conversation with my friend was what prompted me to post in the first place. Sharing these kinds of game experiences is one the most helpful ways of really nailing down the questionable or overlooked elements of the game. No one can experience all of them first-hand.
I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance.
Oooohhhhh....preferably with some sort of chilling mechanism built into it....{smacks lips}...could brown mold be used for that if properly contained?
I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance. I gave him a blank stare, waited a beat, and moved on. It was a classic moment.What is wrong with this? Maestro, I say right on!
no, but seriously, why shouldn't this work?
My first thought is the lack of anything that resembles legs.
So it would have to roll around behind him, and that just skews the flavor.
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I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance. I gave him a blank stare, waited a beat, and moved on. It was a classic moment.
It's just this kind of inspired thinking outside the box that makes this game the truly great thing it is. Keg animator, whoever thou artst, this Bud's for you.
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I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance. I gave him a blank stare, waited a beat, and moved on. It was a classic moment.It's just this kind of inspired thinking outside the box that makes this game the truly great thing it is. Keg animator, whoever thou artst, this Bud's for you.
singing-*Reeealll Meennn of Geennnniuuss*
announcer-Today we salute you, Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater!singing- *Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Ani-matater*
announcer-You saw a plain barrel of beer and said "I can make that cold, and have it follow me around."!
singing-*I'LL Taake that to go!*
announcer-When others laughed at you, you poured another round and took a walk through the dungeon!
singing-*Ain't you a lush!*
announcer-So what if you have a 30 gallon barrel with feet following you like a puppy.
singing-* HEEL BOY!!!*
announcer-You never need to stop and say "Boy I sure could use a frosty one."!
singing-*ROOLLLL me a con check!"
announcer-So today we salute you Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater for boldly going forth, in a drunken haze.
singing-*Liquid courage, Mr. Wallllkkkingg Freezer Keg Annimmatttterrrr!*
FH (Bard5/Idiot2)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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singing-*Reeealll Meennn of Geennnniuuss*
announcer-Today we salute you, Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater!
singing- *Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Ani-matater*
announcer-You saw a plain barrel of beer and said "I can make that cold, and have it follow me around."!
singing-*I'LL Taake that to go!*
announcer-When others laughed at you, you poured another round and took a walk through the dungeon!
singing-*Ain't you a lush!*
announcer-So what if you have a 30 gallon barrel with feet following you like a puppy.
singing-* HEEL BOY!!!*
announcer-You never need to stop and say "Boy I sure could use a frosty one."!
singing-*ROOLLLL me a con check!"
announcer-So today we salute you Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater for boldly going forth, in a drunken haze.
singing-*Liquid courage, Mr. Wallllkkkingg Freezer Keg Annimmatttterrrr!*FH (Bard5/Idiot2)
Damnit! Not only did you beat me to it, you nailed it. Nice one.
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The loose interpretation of certain spells is one of the reasons I tend not to play a spellcaster in one of my groups GMs campaigns anymore. He never took my 'but listen, this is genius' lines seriously.
There was a point in time where I had a higher level wizard/loremaster who had a staff which produced all kinds of force effects. We came across a hallway which had some sort of traps all along the ceiling where when we entered it we would get shot by various rays from the roof.
I came up with an idea where I could make a floating disk, which could easily support the rest of the party by that level(though if I remember correctly it says something about you not being able to sit on it yourself), then I was going to cast forcecage around them with solid walls to keep out all the rays. Then if I just crawled beneath the floating disk and let it drift above me down the hallway the rays would bounce off the force cage and we could make it safely past...
Now that I think about it that character died as a result of one of my interpreted uses of spells being shot down. He was in combat with a dragon who had made it very clear that he wanted to eat him. I realized that being a scrawny mage if the dragon wanted me in his mouth that was probably where I was going to end up, so I declared that I was readying a spell until the dragon opened his mouth, then when he did I announced I was casting forcewall in between his jaws. I figured that way if he put me in his mouth he couldn't swallow or even chomp down on me and when that made him mad he couldn't even effectively hit me with his breath weapon. But alas, however much I pointed out that the gargantuan dragons lower and upper jaw formed a very effective ceiling and floor for the wall I was denied with a shake of the head. Poor Piper. He is missed.
I suppose in some ways because while I did play D&D back all the way to first edition I also played alot of other systems that have looser rules(everything from the storyteller system, to d6 stuff, to tri-stat, even some freeform chat based stuff) I tend to take a more flexible approach to things when I DM. My players know I encourage adaptability. I feel that a good plan, or even simply a good description of an action adds alot to the overall game and is worthy of a circumstance bonus. The end result becomes a more cinematic, epic game. Your players really get into explaining what they do rather then just calling out what they roll. The descriptions can quickly help everyone really visualize what is happening.
Ugh, my grumbling about my loremaster's ideas being shot down turned into a full fledged rant.
I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance. I gave him a blank stare, waited a beat, and moved on. It was a classic moment.It's just this kind of inspired thinking outside the box that makes this game the truly great thing it is. Keg animator, whoever thou artst, this Bud's for you.singing-*Reeealll Meennn of Geennnniuuss*
announcer-Today we salute you, Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater!
singing- *Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Ani-matater*
announcer-You saw a plain barrel of beer and said "I can make that cold, and have it follow me around."!
singing-*I'LL Taake that to go!*
announcer-When others laughed at you, you poured another round and took a walk through the dungeon!
singing-*Ain't you a lush!*
announcer-So what if you have a 30 gallon barrel with feet following you like a puppy.
singing-* HEEL BOY!!!*
announcer-You never need to stop and say "Boy I sure could use a frosty one."!
singing-*ROOLLLL me a con check!"
announcer-So today we salute you Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater for boldly going forth, in a drunken haze.
singing-*Liquid courage, Mr. Wallllkkkingg Freezer Keg Annimmatttterrrr!*FH (Bard5/Idiot2)
That is too damn funny :)
Somewhere there's a alchemical item that keeps drinks cool...it's spiffy and could work quite well for the Walking Keg. Mmm...cool beer on demand...tasty!
My players tend to be awfully good about the "plan something that's remotely feasible and see if the DM goes for it." I give the blank look, blink a few times as I'm mulling it over, then tell them what rolls they need to make. They usually don't do anything outrageous, so I'm pretty safe there.
Somewhere there's a alchemical item that keeps drinks cool...it's spiffy and could work quite well for the Walking Keg. Mmm...cool beer on demand...tasty!
There's something along those lines in the Dragon Compendium, I forget what it's called but I think it costs something like 30 gp. There's also Blue Ice in Frostburn, it's a special material that stays cold. Good for making mugs, steins, and the like out of.
I tend to take a more flexible approach to things when I DM. My players know I encourage adaptability. I feel that a good plan, or even simply a good description of an action adds alot to the overall game and is worthy of a circumstance bonus. The end result becomes a more cinematic, epic game. Your players really get into explaining what they do rather then just calling out what they roll. The descriptions can quickly help everyone really visualize what is happening.
T, *THAT* is the kind of game I love!! I have discovered if I, as a DM or player either one, take the time to really describe an action or a result or an area, the other players will respond. I've been known to describe *other players'* actions, too! "Oh, so are you just kinda sauntering up to him or ar you stalking up to him in an angry huff?" Then they respond and add a few details right then - *next* time they provide details of their own without prompting! And ooooh, the bizarre plans they come up with!
Cinematic is the way to play!
I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance. I gave him a blank stare, waited a beat, and moved on. It was a classic moment.It's just this kind of inspired thinking outside the box that makes this game the truly great thing it is. Keg animator, whoever thou artst, this Bud's for you.singing-*Reeealll Meennn of Geennnniuuss*
announcer-Today we salute you, Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater!
singing- *Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Ani-matater*
announcer-You saw a plain barrel of beer and said "I can make that cold, and have it follow me around."!
singing-*I'LL Taake that to go!*
announcer-When others laughed at you, you poured another round and took a walk through the dungeon!
singing-*Ain't you a lush!*
announcer-So what if you have a 30 gallon barrel with feet following you like a puppy.
singing-* HEEL BOY!!!*
announcer-You never need to stop and say "Boy I sure could use a frosty one."!
singing-*ROOLLLL me a con check!"
announcer-So today we salute you Mr. Walking Freezer Keg Animater for boldly going forth, in a drunken haze.
singing-*Liquid courage, Mr. Wallllkkkingg Freezer Keg Annimmatttterrrr!*FH (Bard5/Idiot2)
HAAAA HAAAAA HAA HA HA HA HAAAAA HAAAA HAAAA HAA HAAA HA HA HA HAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAA HA HA OH HA OH WHA.., HAAA HAAA HAA HAA WOOH OH HA HA THAT WAS CLASSIC HA HE HE HE
Now I play with kids so um... ya, they wanted to put the halfling theif in a brown sack so they could throw it at the enemy. They figure the enemy wont see it coming so he should get a sneak attack! It was a painful argument.
Well we are still debating this one but my druid player wants to take all his magic items off before shape shifting into a ape like creature and then putting all the stuff back on. I think by the letter of the rules its basically do able but...it sure twists the intent.
Oh yeah - lots of arguments about how long one can drag stuff using their max pull for strength. There should have been clear cut rules on how long one can pull a ton around.
I had a player who liked to animate anything he came across. The best was when he tried to animate a keg. He wanted it to walk around behind his character and provide needed sustenance. I gave him a blank stare, waited a beat, and moved on. It was a classic moment.
HA! Imagine how useful one of those could be! You could use it for bargaining, easing pain, and think about how abd it would hurt to be hit by a keg of beer! The hangovers I as a DM could dish out with one of those! That would be a great encounter for some unruly noob PC's...
.....I was going to post a humorous story of my own, but I don't think anything can beat this.....
Well, not actually a rules interpretation, but among the stranger moments in my RPG times...in Cyberpunk 2020 our characters were in really bad situation (exact details on the problem have been lost in mists of time) we just wanted to get out of, so we sacrificed a baby to Satan and hoped he would give us a hand. DM blinked, was silent for a moment and deus-ex-machinaed our characters to other side of the Earth with all our opposition forgetting we have ever existed.
Then in Rolemaster there was a nice "horse fairy" episode when our mage wanted to discreetly steal a horse from a nearby farmer. Idea was to cast invisibility to self, walk next to the farmer and cast power word sleep to the farmer. The execution was partial success, except for the first power word failing, naturally ending the invisibility. Farmer was baffled by sudden appearance of this small strange looking fellow who then recast the spell, and when the famer woke up the horse was gone. Old wives' tales in the making.
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Onrie, I played in a dragonlance game once and we had a kender who was always getting in trouble so whenever we were in town he would get put in a backpack. Everyone figured that when(not if) he managed to get out of it the person carrying him would at least feel the difference in weight. That worked, for a while anyway.
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Director of Sales
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Well, not actually a rules interpretation, but among the stranger moments in my RPG times...in Cyberpunk 2020 our characters were in really bad situation (exact details on the problem have been lost in mists of time) we just wanted to get out of, so we sacrificed a baby to Satan and hoped he would give us a hand. DM blinked, was silent for a moment and deus-ex-machinaed our characters to other side of the Earth with all our opposition forgetting we have ever existed.
Evidently Jack Chick was right all along. Who knew?
Evidently Jack Chick was right all along. Who knew?
WAHHHHH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Wooo-hooohooohooohooo!!! Jack Chick makes me giggle.
Time to go play the obligatory Dr Demento/Dead Ale Wives clip of "an actual D&D session..."
Meanwhile, I'd like to attack the darkness!
I have a player who has a steadfast dislike of therules for flanking, attacks of opportunity and the fact he can't 5' step AND move...
And he plays a sneaky hiding halfling thief who likes to hide ALL the time.
Mind you his arguements always come just after he's been 'talking'to Mary Jane outside...
Evidently Jack Chick was right all along. Who knew?
Definitely a Jack Chick moment. I hope BADD folks are not reading this message board...
Evidently Jack Chick was right all along. Who knew?Definitely a Jack Chick moment. I hope BADD folks are not reading this message board...
I don't think "Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons" is still operational.
Wasn't it just one person at some point (not just at its foundation)? I'm sorry for that woman's son and all, but good lord, at least know what you're talking about!
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Director of Narrative
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Well we are still debating this one but my druid player wants to take all his magic items off before shape shifting into a ape like creature and then putting all the stuff back on. I think by the letter of the rules its basically do able but...it sure twists the intent.
and
Oh yeah - lots of arguments about how long one can drag stuff using their max pull for strength. There should have been clear cut rules on how long one can pull a ton around.
These examples are the kinds of things I was talking about. Things that seem too minor to post a request for help from the community here, but would be great if you got feedback on you're ruling or what-not. After all it's better than arguing which setting is better.
As for the druid, I agree with you. Do-able, but kinda lame - I'd spring some ambushes.
Concerning the dragging, I'd take the same rules for chases and long distance running and stick some hefty modifiers on the con checks. Dragging a hundred pounds is more tiring ( at least to me) than backpacking fifty.
A lot of people seem to forget that the "max loads" and the different forms (drag/push, lift, etc., but not those for equiped gear) are the maximum possible for your character, and should require Strength checks to achieve (you have an increasingly small chance of moving the object up to this point, and then there's no chance). A lot of people seem to think that they could simply lift their max load and walk around holding it all day.
Nope. Though the PHB doesn't explicitly state it, I'd say, depending on how close a character is to its max load, they would have to make Strength checks at an interval of once per minute, or once per round if it's really heavy, starting with a base DC of 10, +1 per previous check. Failure means fatigue, another means exhaustion (this would change the Strength score and thus probably make the character drop whatever it was they had), and a third would just be DM arbitration that you drop the thing and probably can't make any more Strength checks until you're no longer fatigued.
I would rule that one would be in a reduced state (fatigued/exhausted) for 10 minutes -1 minute per point of Con bonus. Then they go up to the next better condition (exhausted to fatigued to normal). A little clunky, but not too much, rarely used, and it seems pretty fair. Feel free to adjust as you see fit, but make sure to tell me, too, so I can the modifications as well!