Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Have you ever run a campaign where the players were required to all be of a particular race or class? How did it turn out? Were you strict, or did you allow multiclassing?
I've run a thieves guild campaign, where the majority of the players were some variety of rogue (though none of them were single classed rogues), and that seems to be the most popular sub-genre of the single class campaign. It was a fun campaign, though in part it emphasized urban life and treated adventurers as oddities at best, meddlesome do-gooders at worst.
I also ran a short all dwarves campaign in 2e (it actually featured one gnome in order to provide some arcane spellcasting). It was a fun experiment and I wouldn't mind doing it again, particularly now that dwarves can take levels in any class.
The one single class campaign I've always wanted to run is the all arcane casters campaign. The problem is that whenever I think about it, I start messing with the magic rules, and by the time I'm done, I'm pulling my Ars Magica books off the shelf and wondering how I can convince my players to learn a new system. It seems like the limitations of arcane casters are so severe (low hp, having to recharge sooner than if you had non-casters, the importance of having a high casting attribute, etc) that it's hard to have a party of them. I have considered running it as a gestalt campaign, with each core class being gestalted with a specialist (e.g., paladins are also abjurists) but that usually leads me astray too.
Anyway, what single class/race games have you all run and how did they go?
Have you ever run a campaign where the players were required to all be of a particular race or class? How did it turn out? Were you strict, or did you allow multiclassing?
I've run a thieves guild campaign, where the majority of the players were some variety of rogue (though none of them were single classed rogues), and that seems to be the most popular sub-genre of the single class campaign. It was a fun campaign, though in part it emphasized urban life and treated adventurers as oddities at best, meddlesome do-gooders at worst.
I also ran a short all dwarves campaign in 2e (it actually featured one gnome in order to provide some arcane spellcasting). It was a fun experiment and I wouldn't mind doing it again, particularly now that dwarves can take levels in any class.
The one single class campaign I've always wanted to run is the all arcane casters campaign. The problem is that whenever I think about it, I start messing with the magic rules, and by the time I'm done, I'm pulling my Ars Magica books off the shelf and wondering how I can convince my players to learn a new system. It seems like the limitations of arcane casters are so severe (low hp, having to recharge sooner than if you had non-casters, the importance of having a high casting attribute, etc) that it's hard to have a party of them. I have considered running it as a gestalt campaign, with each core class being gestalted with a specialist (e.g., paladins are also abjurists) but that usually leads me astray too.
Anyway, what single class/race games have you all run and how did they go?
I am currently running an all orc campaign in which orcs serve both as a race and a class (SAs and spell-casting abilities are bought as feats rather than class based). The Orcs in this campaign are a LE tribal society that employs slaves, raids the "weakling humans" and starts bloody feuds and vendettas over minor offenses. On the other hand, they are deeply spiritual and honorable people who worship the ghosts of their ancestors and the many nature spirits who live in their mountains. Imagine a weird mix of Vikings, Native Americans and Bedouins with green skin and sharp tusks and you’ll get a pretty good picture.
Presently their quest is to pass a gift (a magic sword) from their ailing elder to his friend, the High King who lives a few hundreds of miles away... On their way they have many minor adventures such as helping another tribe locate a murderer, investigating a mysterious curse that afflicts little children and makes them speak evil prophecies and dealing with various capricious nature spirits who demand all sorts of services and sacrifices. They also fight mechanic dwarves, greedy orcs, rebellious slaves and other monsters on their way to the High King’s palace.So far it has been going great and is probably the best campaign I ever ran, mainly because the emphasis is more on serious and adult role-playing rather than leveling-up and killing stuff (in this campaign every killing has severe consequences…).
Hope I didn’t bore anyone to death…
Uri.
Our DMs often limit the available races to just one, usually human. Thus, encountering a dwarf or elf NPC is something special. Whole quests have revolved around proving that elves do exist and finding one of their cities to deliver a message.
That said, the most memorable mini-campaign was where the DM limited everyone to halflings. We all (4) played rogues. We were stealthy, ambushed alot, and maxed out use magic device. It was a blast.
Over the time i have run an all dwarf campaign that was a real success. I'm presently dming an all elf spellcasting campaign. No martial classes were authorized on character creation. They are now level 13th and many of my players tells me it's the best campaign i've runned. Of course the challenge are different from a group with paladins, rangers, fighters and monks but at 13th level, they can handle much more difficult challenges with their powerful magics. The first adventures were role-playing encounters and problem-solving more than combat. Instead of just wizards, i allowed every spellcasting classes and none of the martial ones. Here's the party composition:
-elven Druid lvl13
-elven conjurer lvl12/archmage lvl1
-elven cleric lvl3/wizard lvl3/ mysthic theurge lvl 7
-elven bard lvl13
-elven cleric lvl 9/ hospitalier 4
-human barbarian lvl1/ rogue lvl3/ cleric lvl 8
The last one is a player who got killed 7 times and plays a new character again...sigh!
I wanted to start my present campaign by having all five of my players roll up fighters. I would have pitted them against each other in some gladitorial fights and the actual winner (survivor) would play the group fighter (lvl 2), and the other players would roll up new characters (lvl 1), starting the campaign a game year later...
I spoke with my group before doing this to inform them of the plan, but they didn't like it (afraid a person who didn't want to play fighter would end up winning). So I went without it. Pitty, it would of made a great introduction (background story) for a character.
Ultradan
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The one single class campaign I've always wanted to run is the all arcane casters campaign.
I reckon it could be done with D&D rules, but you would probably have to be a bit careful with the first few levels as they will be very fragile. I'm sure you recall the brief series in Dragon which dealt with how to run campaigns without certain character classes - I suppose you look at those and take the advice in all of them except the "no spellcasters" one. Could be an intriguing challenge for you as a DM, not just for them as players. How to create challenging scenarios that won't wipe out an unbalanced party.....? Interestingly, most of the campaigns described here seem to be more racial-specific than class specific, so the balance is a bit less of an option. Personally, though, I love urban adventures and have always fancied, but never done, a Thieves Guild campaign....
the nearest we got was rolling characters up for an all thief mini-adventure to assault a castle. that took most of the session with 7 players all doing so then the remainder of the session we planned our assault. then next session our regular dm came back and that was it :( sinse the menzobarenzan (sp?) box set i alway wanted to run a totally drow campaign and that is getting more so as i read the war of the spider queen novels. maybe one day.
Did anyone here ever ran an evil campagin where PCs play goblinoids, giants, abberations, undead and other ill-begotten stuff like that?
I think it might be fun...
Did anyone here ever ran an evil campagin where PCs play goblinoids, giants, abberations, undead and other ill-begotten stuff like that?
I think it might be fun...
I once played in a rather short-lived evil round, where we all played drow, duergar and the like. They had a strong outside motivation (a powerful witch) who needed them to do her dirt jobs. I recall starting a war between two nations by catching and killing a crucial messenger during a phase of shaky peace or something like that. It was back in 1st Ed time (mid to late 80´s), as I played a drow cavalier... He rode a huge (max hit points) nightmare as his steed.
I have an idea to start an evil campaign. The base line is that this runs similar to the Heroes of Might and Magic III storyline, where a nation of good is overrun by the hordes of evil. A follow-up campaign would be the forces of good reconquering their old home. But I don´t know yet if this will start at all.
Stefan
To come back to the original thread, I once started a campaign, and during character creation, it turned out that three players wanted to play elves, so I ruled that the other two had to play elves, too. As I had planned a few adventures beforehand, I could only start to integrate elven themes slowly. One adventure went around the rediscovery and exploration of an ancient grey elven city in the mountains, which had been overrun by uncorporeal undead. According to my players, this was one of my best stories ever.
Stefan
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Did anyone here ever ran an evil campagin where PCs play goblinoids, giants, abberations, undead and other ill-begotten stuff like that?
I think it might be fun...
That's another on my long list of campaigns I'd like to run. My plan has always been to start the players off as goblin slaves deep in the underdark. Their drow masters get killed in an ambush, but manage to drive off their attackers. The poor goblin PC's are all 1st level warriors. They must pick up the weapons and magical gear their former masters possessed and make their way back to the surface.
The gear would include items oriented toward particular character classes. So, the rogue of the group would be the character who picked up the boots/robe of elvenkind. The fighter is the guy with the shield and magic sword.
Of course, one of the valuable items they pick up is the mcguffin that the original ambushers were after. As the goblins make their way to the surface, they are beset by ambushes as the interested parties try to recover the item.
What ruined this campaign idea was the response of one of my players. He said "you realize that if really roleplay these goblins correctly, one of us will kill the others while they sleep and take their loot."
And to be fair, he had a good point.
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They had an old(2nd ed I think) campaign called the reverse dungeon where the players took on the role of the monsters to defend their homes against groups of adventurers. That was pretty neat.
As for running an all evil campaign I have one in the works right now, or at least at the point where the campaign is formed in my head and we are just trying to get around to actually making it happen. Basically the thought behind it is that they all were these powerful arch villians who had each been defeated by a group of heroes, and now they had banded together to try and regain their lost power and to destroy those who had taken it from them.
Right now its up for debate whether we are going to do it using the D20 system or not though. Even with books like vile darkness, heroes or horror, the libris mortis, ect, D&D is still really a game about heroes and that shows through in alot of ways. I suggested we do it using the hero system, which I love for its flexibilty, but which none of my current players have actually played in and they have only seen enough of the rules to wince about. Other options would be something like stormbringer. It has just a dark enough feel to it that this sort of campaign would be perfect with it.
I wish they had some sort of comparible system to Paranoia for a fantasy setting. I love the way it leaves your players both wanting to work together and compete with each other at the same time. Having the knowledge that you need each other but that you are probably going to screw each other too built right into the system is great.
What ruined this campaign idea was the response of one of my players. He said "you realize that if really roleplay these goblins correctly, one of us will kill the others while they sleep and take their loot."
And to be fair, he had a good point.
Goblins are neutral evil so they are extremely unlikely to turn on one each other when in dire need of allies.
Also, if goblins were so murderous how could entire tribes and warbands operate for years? By your player's theory they should have all murdered one each other right after the first successful raid...|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Goblins are neutral evil so they are extremely unlikely to turn on one each other when in dire need of allies.
Are you saying that because a creature is neutral evil, it won't turn on its allies in a time of need? That's a pretty specious train of logic. Whether or not you turn on your friends is really a function of wisdom. You ask "Do I have a better chance of surviving on my own and with a bunch of magic items, or with this crowd of nit-wits?" The fact that you are neutral evil means you ask the question, but whether you make the decision depends on your analysis of the situation. Further, you may not even believe you are in dire danger. Irrational decisions get made when you don't have the omniscience of the DM looking over your shoulder.
Also, if goblins were so murderous how could entire tribes and warbands operate for years? By your player's theory they should have all murdered one each other right after the first successful raid...
Again, this is a non-sequitor. The point was not that goblins always attack each other after a raid. That's a pretty stupid and simplistic point. The point is that neutral evil creatures are kept in check by power. If they believe they can advance their own power at the expense of others, they do so.
In the context of a goblin warband, there are significant repurcussions to just killing everyone in the band and taking the loot. First, you have to figure out if you're going to be successful. Second, even if you are successful, you have to consider whether killing the warband will reduce your long term survival by taking out your tribe's best warriors, leaving them vulnerable to attacks by third parties? Of course, maybe you could just kill your rival while no one is looking. No one would mind that (or maybe they would, after all, he has a brother back at camp that will suspect you...)
Evil isn't stupid and neither am I. I didn't say my friend was right, I didn't say it was an absolute truth, I said he had a good point. There is a greater risk of betrayal in an evil group of creatures than in a good group of creatures. That doesn't mean there aren't reasons for evil creatures to work together from time to time, just that you have to be aware that there is always a risk of betrayal.
Finally, maybe they do kill each other after a raid. That could very well be the reason goblins haven't overrun the world - when the chips are down they make poor decisions and do not generally cooperate.
The one single class campaign I've always wanted to run is the all arcane casters campaign. ... I have considered running it as a gestalt campaign,
Yup, did that for a while. Characters had to be Human and were gestalt Wizard/X. I relented later and let two Sorcerer/Fighters in, because the players were a bit too young to properly manage a Wizard's spell-list. That group saw a:
Wiz/Sorc - *15* spells per day at 1st level???Wiz/Monk
Wiz/Rogue
Wiz/Bard
Sorc/Ftr - melee, armor and "screw the ASF %!!"
Sorc/Ftr - ranged combat
That was an interesting group - pity two of them left the States for Okinawa. The Wiz/Sorc and the two Sorc/Ftr's are still around (my wife and kids) and we *might* resurrect that campaign at some point (like if I ever relocate the dang char-sheets!). And yes - I did screw about with the magic rules. I wanted a Glantri-like setting and felt there were toooo many limits with core magic to do so. Now that I actually OWN Unearthed Arcana, I have something better to go by when it comes to altering classes and such than just the seat of my pants!
Evil isn't stupid and neither am I. I didn't say my friend was right, I didn't say it...
And nevertheless you did have an urge to describe my point of view as "stupid", a rather harsh expression given the purely academic debate we are leading here.
Anyway, in my Orc group all the characters are siblings and are extremely loyal to their family patriarch. They rape, pillage and enslave and sometimes even fight other Orcs over honor and prestige but they would never hurt one another.
I don't think it's bad role-playing. They are evil because of their actions towards others. I can imagine who a goblin who loves her children dearly and would gladly give away her life to protect them. She is still evil, just not towards her kin.
In your campaign you could assume that goblins are not evil towards one another ("us against the world") and guarantee no PCK.
And remember:
Green is beautiful!
Did anyone here ever ran an evil campagin where PCs play goblinoids, giants, abberations, undead and other ill-begotten stuff like that?
I think it might be fun...
My old gaming group tried to do this once. It was around Halloween, and the DM who was running things at the time had us create characters for a one-shot style game. We had a doppleganger, some sort of undead (I think), and I played an entropic medusa.
While it certainly was fun to play that medusa, the game kind of devolved when the undead and the medusa couldn't trust each other, and we spent way too much game time arguing about who would take what position in the party's marching order.
I'd like to give it another shot someday, though . . .
Director of Narrative
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As far as an evil campaign goes, the main focus of the DM should be getting the group together and creating a reason to discourage betrayal and in-fighting. Keep it solid at first, because it will eventually self-destroy. (usually) And if you're playing in Greyhawk, never allow a worshipper of Nerul and a cleric of Iuz in the same party. That shifty Rhennee fighter/rogue is a swell guy though.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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And nevertheless you did have an urge to describe my point of view as "stupid", a rather harsh expression given the purely academic debate we are leading here.
Evil isn't stupid and neither am I. I didn't say my friend was right, I didn't say it...
I apologize for the ambiguity in my post. I was calling the view that because goblins are evil, they always attack each other as simplistic and stupid. I don't think you have ever presented that point as you own, but rather that you had
ascribed it (incorrectly) to me/my friend.Your point of view seems to be that evil can be expressed outwardly while retaining loyalty inwardly. That is a reasonable point of view and within the range of interpretations one could have with respect to the nature of evil in D&D.
And nevertheless you did have an urge to describe my point of view as "stupid", a rather harsh expression given the purely academic debate we are leading here.
Evil isn't stupid and neither am I. I didn't say my friend was right, I didn't say it...I apologize for the ambiguity in my post. I was calling the view that because goblins are evil, they always attack each other as simplistic and stupid. I don't think you have ever presented that point as you own, but rather that you had
ascribed it (incorrectly) to me/my friend.Your point of view seems to be that evil can be expressed outwardly while retaining loyalty inwardly. That is a reasonable point of view and within the range of interpretations one could have with respect to the nature of evil in D&D.
Nevermind that :)
It could be cool to play Warcraft-like goblins who like to build weird machines and blow stuff up. Mischievous and with total disregard to human\goblin life...
More silly than evil.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Nevermind that :)
It could be cool to play Warcraft-like goblins who like to build weird machines and blow stuff up. Mischievous and with total disregard to human\goblin life...
More silly than evil.
Sounds good to me.
Your campaign sounds terrific by the way, and I do like your interpretation of evil as being exclusionary. I hadn't considered that angle. I tend to under-emphasize alignment when running an evil campaign, but that's a good fix that allows you to keep it in.
How do the orc classes work? Is there very much differentiation between the various players?
I wrote up a 2e campaign at one point which included the goblins as steam powered machinists and ogres as noble mammoth riding knights. The plot was going to be to have elves arrive on spelljammer ships to colonize the world and the native goblinoids defend against the incursion.
How do the orc classes work? Is there very much differentiation between the various players?
Every time someone gains a level he gets a new feat. In my campaign feats include both the classic PHB feats and feats that mimic various character special abilities (rage, nature sense, etc…) and skills. Every feat belongs to one of four groups: combat (fighting and stealth), spiritual (healing and shamanism), magic (spell-casting) and crafts (everything else). The feats you choose define your BAB and saves (just as if you gained a new class). Since I don’t use skills in my campaign, when a skill check is needed, one either makes a simple ability check (if he doesn't have the relevant feat) or a level plus ability check (if he has the relevant feat). “Skill” feats include such feats as the mountaineer (climb, use rope, balance, wilderness lore) and stealthy (move silently, hide, bluff, disguise).
Also I encourage players to make up feats to make their character more unique (so far the only feat born this way was "nature's friend" which makes the character likable by small animals, so very cute…).That's more or less it.
I wrote up a 2e campaign at one point which included the goblins as steam powered machinists and ogres as noble mammoth riding knights. The plot was going to be to have elves arrive on spelljammer ships to colonize the world and the native goblinoids defend against the incursion.
Cool idea. I love the concept of an objective conflict that can't be avoided.
Since the discussion has veered (mainly) into all evil campaigns, I thought I’d chime in. Awhile back I had an idea for an evil campaign, it took place in a mountain range (like the one around Mordor), there a bunch of orc, goblin, bugbear and hobgoblin tribes you could play as and each had unique bonuses to the tribe (some had dragon allies, other these Tessla coil stones) but because they were all in a setting against one another I could ignore level adjustment and the like. Plus I got to set up some interesting societies.
When I ran the campaign I had 3 players (all hobgoblins of the black-forge tribe)
-Male Hobgoblin Fighter 2/Ranger 3
-Male Hobgoblin Cleric 3/Paladin 2(unmodified paladin)
-Male Hobgoblin Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1
It only lasted a few weeks but it was a lot of fun
I've had groups who have tried to run all drow groups before, but unfortunately one of them either takes their internal rivalries too far (my friends like to fight and argue) or one of them takes their "evil" alignment to far and sure enough betrayed the others to a. take all their stuff or b. join the main bad guy of the campaign. Its fun while it lasts though.
I don't know but an all drow campaign seems to be a bad idea the society just isn't set up to allow a functioning party. I would recomend trying other evil PC types like hobgoblins or something
Since the discussion has veered (mainly) into all evil campaigns, I thought I’d chime in. Awhile back I had an idea for an evil campaign, it took place in a mountain range (like the one around Mordor), there a bunch of orc, goblin, bugbear and hobgoblin tribes you could play as and each had unique bonuses to the tribe (some had dragon allies, other these Tessla coil stones) but because they were all in a setting against one another I could ignore level adjustment and the like. Plus I got to set up some interesting societies.
When I ran the campaign I had 3 players (all hobgoblins of the black-forge tribe)
-Male Hobgoblin Fighter 2/Ranger 3
-Male Hobgoblin Cleric 3/Paladin 2(unmodified paladin)
-Male Hobgoblin Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1
It only lasted a few weeks but it was a lot of fun
And what was the main story, whom did the PCs fight? what was their main quest?
Have you ever run a campaign where the players were required to all be of a particular race or class? How did it turn out?
I'm currently running Red Hand of Doom with a party of five Elves. Similar to Stebehil's situation, three of the players coincidentally created Elven PC's, and then the others heard about it and thought it'd be cool to go 100% Elf-style. We have:
-Moon Elf Wizard 5
-Moon Elf Cleric 5 of Selune
-Wild Elf Ranger 5
-Wood Elf Rogue 4/Ranger 1
-Star Elf Bard 5
I play in campaign where there was no race requirement, but your PC had to be Small-sized. We've got a Goblin, two Halflings and a Svirfneblin. We also decided (as players) to have everyone take their 1st level as Rogue. We have big fun outsmarting the BigFolk.
I played for many years in a homebrew campaign where Elves were the master race and Humans were kept as a slave caste. Everyone else was an Elf and I was a Half-Elf (property of one of the other PCs).
I'd love to run an all Lizardfolk campaign someday. All Spirit Shamen-y, Barbarian-y, and Scout-ish.
I'd love to run an all Lizardfolk campaign someday. All Spirit Shamen-y, Barbarian-y, and Scout-ish.
That's a grand idea, I must try it someday.
Must find the right players though...
And what was the main story, whom did the PCs fight? what was their main quest?Since the discussion has veered (mainly) into all evil campaigns, I thought I’d chime in. Awhile back I had an idea for an evil campaign, it took place in a mountain range (like the one around Mordor), there a bunch of orc, goblin, bugbear and hobgoblin tribes you could play as and each had unique bonuses to the tribe (some had dragon allies, other these Tessla coil stones) but because they were all in a setting against one another I could ignore level adjustment and the like. Plus I got to set up some interesting societies.
When I ran the campaign I had 3 players (all hobgoblins of the black-forge tribe)
-Male Hobgoblin Fighter 2/Ranger 3
-Male Hobgoblin Cleric 3/Paladin 2(unmodified paladin)
-Male Hobgoblin Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1
It only lasted a few weeks but it was a lot of fun
The campaigns main story was the compition between the tribes, each tribe had its allies and enimeies and the PCs struggled to control their mountain or fight of the beastmen(gnolls and weremen) or the dwarfs who were invading. admitedly however, the story arc was a bit to short and the moutains not fully mapped (i had to come up with the idea in 2 days).
Most of the campaigns I play have some kind of theme or restriction. I've been in all-mage campaign, all-fighter (well, three fighters, ranger and thief) campaign, all-religious (clerics, druids, paladins) campaign (the latest one is continuing, and all-mage is on pause with possible continuation). In all-mage campaign three of four characters have multiclassed and one fighter took a level of bard.
Racial campaigns I have played in two. One was "strange races encouraged" (a traveling circus freakshow) and other was "evil gnomes" (short-lived, and with imaginative players, possibility of causing nightmares is very high).
For the most part, groups like this make better sense to me than wide mixtures unless the group is bunch of mercenaries who just meet up in the tavern or such.
I've run a psionics-only campaign in a homebrewed world. Arcane magic had been outlawed following an apocalyptic war, and divine magic is almost non-existent. Each player was limited to races and classes in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
This was also the campaign where I wanted to run a good party and evil party at the same time with two different groups. They had to search for a group of artifacts (the Orbs of Dragonkind) for their individual organizations. I had a group of advanced players that in one session changed their alignments from CN and LN into NE and LE, and then I started a beginners' group of good characters in the same world. It didn't last too long (too many people moved) but I had plans for a knock-down drag-out fight between the two groups at one point.