Transmutation Builds


Advice


I've always been interested in playing a spellcaster that uses their magic to "hulk out" essentially. I've looked into alternate options, like Alchemists and mutagens, but now I'm interested in investigating a pure spellcaster that uses spells like Transformation or various Form spells or other similar effects that turn them into a beatstick.

So, just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to make a viable build like this.

(Wild Shape is another possibility, but I want to leave that off for a different build concept for now; just looking for spell-based transformations for now).


If you look at the Alchemist, you could follow this build for a Mr.Hyde type character.

http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/alchemists-guide-mr-hyde/

I don't know that I would recommend spellcasters for this, as they only get those spells at higher levels. For the first while if you make a transmuter you will largely be buffing others. Even when you do get Transformation, the bonuses you gain aren't nearly as good one might hope for that level.

Silver Crusade

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The Mutation Mind psychic is also a possibility.

Grand Lodge

Brown fur transmuter Arcanist with transmuter trait.

The Archetype gives more buff to buffs. And later levels you can cast things like transformation, undead anatomy, giant form, form of the dragon on OTHER party members without the need of Marionette Possession.

I don't recommend hulking yourself out. I recommend giving amazing buffs to party mates or your familiar and acting like a true pure caster throwing down CC in fights.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Would the Mutation Warrior (Fighter Archetype from ACG) fit what you're looking for?

Grand Lodge

Against all advice, I'm actually trying this very thing in PFS. Check this profile out for the build. It's a human Shapechange/Transmuter Wizard with a Protector Archetype familiar.

I just started, so I have no idea if it'll remain useful/powerful for his level. With some loose napkin math, it looked like he'd remain fairly close to true martial in terms of to-hit and average damage numbers, though his entire PFS career he'll really only have a single attack per round ... so yah. Buff as big as I can, hit as hard as I can once, and hope it's enough to contribute effectively to the team.

I'm hoping to have enough spell slots left over to have some nice Wizard spells to use for utility and fun. But I'm assuming I'll be spending about half of my daily spell slots on self-buffs, and I had to boost my Initiative mod as high as possible to have that early-fight buff round.

Time will tell.


Yes, Brown Fur is maybe the best buffer of others, but merely a so-so self buffer, because of the low bab and hitpoints. For that reason, I suspect this is not what the OP is looking for.

The full caster most well known for transformative self buffing is probably the druid. Goliath druid can take on the forms of giants, making it a pretty good option.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
now I'm interested in investigating a pure spellcaster

Honestly if your looking to explore full casters you need to actually do more than build every type of self buff hulk out there...actually EXPLORE the Caster side.

Yes a Druid will give you exactly what he is looking for:
Full 9 levels of spells, Ability to self buff, and Martial ability.

But your still not even exploring the druid to its fullest till you play both Aspect of the Beast and Caster versions.

If you have played a Character that is about Hulking out then it will be very similar to your last character. And now your just on repeat.

I was offering something different for him to actually try out instead of repeating strategy every game.

A full caster rely on his team as much as he does on his own abilities....a AotB druid rely on no one but himself and is a more selfish style of play.

But if you want a New class to mimic your old build then Druid is the way to go.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Not everyone wants to play a party-buffing machine.

That's just as boring with every caster as self-buffing only.

Some folks want to try out different takes on martials without the crippling pain that some classes have to go through (I'm looking at YOU, Fighter!) in terms of flexibility.

Edit: To call someone who self-buffs 'selfish' (even though they contribute to party success through their techniques) is exceptionally short-sighted.

Grand Lodge

Quote:

Not everyone wants to play a party-buffing machine.

That's just as boring with every caster as self-buffing only.

Some folks want to try out different takes on martials without the crippling pain that some classes have to go through (I'm looking at YOU, Fighter!) in terms of flexibility.

Edit: To call someone who self-buffs 'selfish' (even though they contribute to party success through their techniques) is exceptionally short-sighted.

Yet I also mentioned
Quote:
and acting like a true pure caster throwing down CC in fights.

So no they would not be pure Buff bots....they would be a full caster giving the team buffs for a situation. Say your Frontline Fighter has s~@+ will saves...He is Undead anatomy to help with that...which also increases there str and gives them special abilities.

While IN combat your still dropping Glitter dusts, walls, Pits, Orbs, or what ever else CC you prefer.

and to answer your short sighted jab...What i decide to call someone is what I decide to call someone. I've also seen self buffing go horribly wrong and they burn through their own resources and contribute very little to the TPK they brought on. So you may not like the sound of my choice of words but they are mine to use. so if your done with your personal attack of my post offer something to help to OP instead of trying to pick a fight.


If you can get Mythic, there is an option for treating your caster level as your base attack bonus while shapechanged. In the Archmage path, I believe.


RaizielDragon wrote:

I've always been interested in playing a spellcaster that uses their magic to "hulk out" essentially. I've looked into alternate options, like Alchemists and mutagens, but now I'm interested in investigating a pure spellcaster that uses spells like Transformation or various Form spells or other similar effects that turn them into a beatstick.

So, just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to make a viable build like this.

(Wild Shape is another possibility, but I want to leave that off for a different build concept for now; just looking for spell-based transformations for now).

I'm surprised no one suggested Dragon Disciple. It's not quite a full caster, but it's pretty close functionally and several builds take full advantage of natural attacks, natural armor, and transformation magic. You could even go 5 straight Sorcerer levels into the Prestige class and only end a few caster levels down.


RaizielDragon wrote:

I've always been interested in playing a spellcaster that uses their magic to "hulk out" essentially. I've looked into alternate options, like Alchemists and mutagens, but now I'm interested in investigating a pure spellcaster that uses spells like Transformation or various Form spells or other similar effects that turn them into a beatstick.

So, just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to make a viable build like this.

(Wild Shape is another possibility, but I want to leave that off for a different build concept for now; just looking for spell-based transformations for now).

I've been thinking more along the lines of using Wildshape. Would you say that a Druidzilla counts as Hulking out?


If you're willing to consider psionics, an egoist can do some pretty good Hulking. A mid-level character can go from puny human to suplexing giants in one round with the right choices.

Here's how!:
These instructions assume you're an 8th level psion or above with the following feats: Defensive Combat Training, Expanded Knowledge (grip of iron), Improved Metamorphosis, Swift Shapeshifter. If you pick up Overchannel, you can do this at 6th level at the cost of a few hit points.

Use your standard action to manifest expansion for 7 power points. (size Huge, +4 Str, -4 Dex)

Use your move action to manifest metamorphosis. Select enhancement bonuses to Strength and Dexterity. (+4 Str, +4 Dex)

Use your swift action to manifest grip of iron for 7 power points. (+7 enhancement bonus to grapple)

Assuming you started with 10 both Strength and Dexterity, you now have a grapple bonus of +16 and a CMD of 25... while completely naked. By comparison, a hill giant (CR 7) has a +15 grapple bonus and a CMD of 24.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I *was* going to suggest Dragon Disciple, but there's a loss of some caster levels if you go that route.

I have a Sorc/DD in a home Runelords campaign.


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My husband ran a pure transmutation school wizard in Emerald Spire: he was our party's front line melee fighter all the way to level 16.

He started with a human wizard who took the transmutation school, grabbed Spell Focus and Varisian Tattoo as his first level feats. He picked up Transmuter of Korada as one of his traits, too, so he was casting transumation school spells at caster level 4 at first level. He focused on transmutation buff spells, so he didn't worry about pumping his Int all the way up, which left him lots of points to put into physical stats. He used an Earthbreaker as his bonded item (another trait gave him proficiency).

As soon as possible, he grabbed a lesser Extend metamagic rod, and he used Alchemical Reagents to increase duration, too. Once he could cast Monstrous Physique 1, he pretty much monstered out at the start of every combat. By level 8, he was pretty much some weird monster at all times.

He was so effective that around level 7, another party member told him to take his iterative attack. His response was, "Dude, I'm a wizard--my BAB is 3!"

Community Manager

A reminder to keep it civil, please.


Gwen Smith wrote:
My husband ran a pure transmutation school wizard in Emerald Spire: he was our party's front line melee fighter all the way to level 16...

This is neat! If you go this route:

Archetype:
shapechanger (APG) (trade out telekinetic fist for a natural weapon).
You might also consider the Earth (APG) or Wood (UM) magical schools.

Race:
- In addition to human, elf with Illustrious Urbanite (Heroes of the Streets)

Some good feats:
- arcane strike (better trade off, if you can afford the swift actions)
- arcane discovery: idealize (add an extra +2 to enhancement increasing buffs) (Champions of Balance)
- toughness, maybe? you might need it
- arcane armor feats (training, mastery)

Prestige classes:
If you don't mind being a little evil, you could work towards Hellknight Signifier (Paths of Prestige) and cast in heavy armor.


I just found out about a new toy from Secret Wizard. This might help with a Transmutation build

Kraken Caller

Silver Crusade

always wondered if a Druid transmutation specialist would be worthwhile at all. Focus on the Entangle spells and plant growth (sickening and Thorny)

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