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Wicca, bleh, don't get The Koga started on Wicca..
Heh, The Koga has never EVER come across that problem, and he's got tons of Christian friends, infact, thier parents like The Koga, they think he's a good example, smart, and very Christian-like.
Meanwhile, when they're not looking, he calls himself a Satanic Preist, and awaits the day The Illummanati takes over and assumes thier New World Order..
He tried to bring it to thier attention subtely, by wearing a Triquetra. (Which means triple aspect of the Goddess in Wicca, but also means The Beast to Luciferians because it looks like a 6 three times.) They didn't even notice, but then again, the symbol was on a little poster of "Christian cults", so they just assumed The Koga was one of those wierdo Jehova's Witnesses or something. HE CAN'T WIN! >: \
But, no matter, he flexes his evil muscle, like when Crystal wouldn't go out with him but flirted with him and crap, if it wasn't for her, The Koga would've never met any of the church goers or her dad or anything, who all liked him..
Crystal: You better stop being mean to me or i'll tell everybody your secret. >: )
Koga: Go ahead woman, The Koga has been betrayed a thousand times, and it only deepens his desire to be one with the shadows! Tell everyone and thier mother, that way, after they've done retaliated, they come to the relization that thier children, God, and themselves would not have had to be exposed to such trash had you not been a little *Koga says the H word! Well actually W, but whatever* and invited him into thier lives. You you are to blame, you danced with the devil! Or atleast one of his followers, so by all means, enlighten the masses. >: DNeedless to say, she kept her mouth shut. Evil is all about being pessemistic, and the great thing about being pessemistic is you're either proven right or pleasently suprised.. >: )
As for D&D, they don't really care, they just think it's some lame game nerds play. (Which is more or less true.)
WTF!
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Exactly what I was thinking Aberzombie. "The Koga" seems to embody all the ridiculous stereotypes that have given D&D a bad name. Hopefully he gets some help or starts acting like a real person, instead of a goofy "fear me! I'm Evil!...no really I am" pretend persona. You get alot of posters like this over at WotC website but it seems that Paizo is starting to get more now. Between M. Fatman and The Koga I really hope this is a couple of rare occurances. I'd hate to think that the boards average intelligence is creeping downwards.
FH
My in-depth analyses of what souls taste like, According To Alignment:Lawful Good - A chef salad with a raspberry-balsamic vinagrette dressing. (Crunchy, filling, a little bit of zing - but too good for you.)
hmmmmm...
Chef's salad....
jummy
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Exactly what I was thinking Aberzombie. "The Koga" seems to embody all the ridiculous stereotypes that have given D&D a bad name. Hopefully he gets some help or starts acting like a real person, instead of a goofy "fear me! I'm Evil!...no really I am" pretend persona. You get alot of posters like this over at WotC website but it seems that Paizo is starting to get more now. Between M. Fatman and The Koga I really hope this is a couple of rare occurances. I'd hate to think that the boards average intelligence is creeping downwards.
FH
Well, I went ahead and followed farewell2kings' lead on the "how much magic" thread Koga started. Anyone who speaks of themselves in third person just deserves to be mocked. Now speaking to yourself, that's a whole different story....
They had this guy on 'The Daily Show' who had created TouFu that had the taste and consistancy of human flesh that he sells on line. It's called Hufu. He said it was for people who wanted to try cannabalisim without facing a life sentence. *Gag!* What the hell is the world comming to? My question is...how do they know if the taste is right?
I seem to remember that human flesh is said to taste similar to pigs - perhaps no big surprise, as both are omnivores. I think this comes from real cannibals questioned. Some reports from cannibals who practiced it for religious reasons within their tribes have said that they called other humans "long pigs"...
The human tasting Tofu is really sick, I think.
Soylent Green is people!!!
??? I don´t get that, wtf is Soylent Green ?
Stefan
Anyone who speaks of themselves in third person just deserves to be mocked.
KOGA
Ultradan & Montreal Sound MachineCome on , shake your body baby, do the Koga,
I know you can't control yourself any longer.
Come on , shake your body baby, do the Koga,
I know you can't control yourself any longer.
Come on , shake your body baby, do the Koga,
I know you can't control yourself any longer.
Feel the lameness of it it’s getting stronger,
Don't you fight it 'til you tried it, being evil ain’t so sweet.
Everybody gather 'round now.
Let your buddy feel the heat,
Don't you worry if you can't kick;
Let your fingers be your feet.
It's sarcasm to the extreme, It makes you want to hurl and scream.
If you want to do the Koga, you've got to talk like you were three.
Come on , shake your body baby, do the Koga,
I know you can't control yourself any longer.
Feel the lameness of it it’s getting stronger,
Don't you fight it 'til you tried it, being evil ain’t so sweet.
You’ll be fired like Survivor, as we’ll be allowed to speak,
'Cause tonight were gonna roleplay, 'til you see the light of day.
Better get yourself together, and stop being what you’re not.
Once this message hits your system, you’ll rethink of what you’ve got.
(repeat 3x's) Come on , shake your body baby, do the Koga.
I know you can't control yourself any longer.
Feel the lameness of it; It’s getting stronger,
Don't you fight it 'til you tried it, being evil ain’t so sweet.
Come on , shake your body baby, do the Koga!!!!!!!!!
.
.
Have a nice day;
Your friend Ultradan.
Soylent Green is people!!!??? I don´t get that, wtf is Soylent Green ?
Stefan
Sorry Stefan, my humor is sometimes hard to follow. I was making a refference to a classic sci-fi movie called 'Soylent Green' where people, in a surpopulated near future, were fed these biscuits that the government produced, that were actually made from dead bodies. If you haven't seen the movie, well sorry dude, cause that's the punch.
Ultradan
Back to the topic, I´m very glad that the whole "D&D is evil" thing never found the way over the Big Pond to Europe (at least, to my knowlegde). In fact, I started playing at the time (1984) when this thing was high in the US. (In germany, themes like radioactive garbage, the new runway for the Frankfurt Airport, the new NATO rockets placed in germany and the ever-looming threat of the cold war were more on the minds of the populace at that time - some offbeat accusations to a very minor new hobby were just nothing to get into the news. The for the most part very secular stance of most germans would not help further the topic either...)
If gaming really lets you cast spells, summon demons and leads you to mass murder, then I would have to have a really bloody record after 22 years - let me think ... no, I haven´t cast a single spell, summoned not one demon (not even one of the lowliest) and never even attacked, much less killed anyone.
(Fencing and Martial Arts training and LARP (faked) fights notwithstanding)
And, while I´m at it, no orgies either (sad though this may be...).
So, sorry, but no evidence from me to support the demon-worshipping accusations, I´m afraid... :-)
In the Koga's defense, he did post a serious question about the levels of magic that people prefer in their campaigns. I did reply in the third person, though....I'm thinking (hoping) that the Koga might be more complex than we think and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. We all have our idiosyncracies.
Sorry Stefan, my humor is sometimes hard to follow. I was making a refference to a classic sci-fi movie called 'Soylent Green' where people, in a surpopulated near future, were fed these biscuits that the government produced, that were actually made from dead bodies. If you haven't seen the movie, well sorry dude, cause that's the punch.Ultradan
Thanks, Ultradan. Now I know what you were talking about. I don´t know that film, I think, but the story line seems somehow familiar...
Stefan
To Stebehil:
But maybe your summoned demon possessed you & wiped your memory after your rampage at that old folks home.......
Now that you mention it......
AAARGH!!!
Sorry Stefan, my humor is sometimes hard to follow. I was making a refference to a classic sci-fi movie called 'Soylent Green' where people, in a surpopulated near future, were fed these biscuits that the government produced, that were actually made from dead bodies. If you haven't seen the movie, well sorry dude, cause that's the punch.Ultradan
Thanks, Ultradan. Now I know what you were talking about. I don´t know that film, I think, but the story line seems somehow familiar...
Stefan
That's indeed an awesome movie!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/
Quite funily, the Director is called Richard Fleischer. ;-)
I know it's available at my video store in Berlin. Am not sure anymore where you are exactly in Germany. The lead character is played by Charlton I-like-my-gun Heston.
Bocklin
That's indeed an awesome movie!http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/
Quite funily, the Director is called Richard Fleischer. ;-)
I know it's available at my video store in Berlin. Am not sure anymore where you are exactly in Germany. The lead character is played by Charlton I-like-my-gun Heston.
Bocklin
Yeah, I had look it up in imdb also. Might someday try and find it in a local video store, but most stores and rentals around here are crap - only current stuff for the most part. I remember asking in one store several years ago for "Lawrence of Arabia", and the blonde chick behind the counter didn´t even know that movie...
Oh, and Bocklin: I´m living near Hannover, in Hildesheim. So, going to Berlin for a video or DVD won´t work.
Stefan
Koga, the shadows thrive and will... nevermind; this is a conversation not meant for the Paizo message boards. I do have something to say to you as I know more than you'll believe, but we must speak in length someplace else. All I shall tell you now is that I am one with the shadows, and I see that your mind will lead you deeper than it can handle.
"D&D is evil" found his way in France, there was some papers about roleplaying games leading to suicide, to satanism, to breaking tombs in cemetery, same think about hard rock music.
Papers written by journalists who never met a roleplayer, never read a rulebook, only speaking about what they don't know.
The movie has the title "Soleil vert" in French (green sun).
lol, if anyone wants to contact The Koga you can add him to your msn list at Savoie16@msn.com don't try emaling him though, he rarely ever checks his email..
Cause perhaps this isn't the best place to get into the method of madness, and The Koga wouldn't want to aggarvate Paizo's forum! They're better then Trigun and hentai dojuinshii combined! (Ok maybe not hentai, but definitely Trigun..)
But yes, they're is alot more to it then The Koga let's on, he's gotten Satanists, Buddhists, Catholics, Mormans, even Muslims to consider the head path. (All this talk about left/right hand path, use your head! XP )
But hey, what's wrong with D&D being considerd evil? What's so bad about evil? So people whisper paranoid stories about you, so they think you're a ticking time-bomb, embrace it, let thier fear and ignorance taste like fine whine.. And infact, encourage them in thier faulty belief, it only makes you appear in control of the situation, and always one step ahead.
The pious pretense that evil does not exist only makes it vague, enormous and menacing.
But yes, they're is alot more to it then The Koga let's on, he's gotten Satanists, Buddhists, Catholics, Mormans, even Muslims to consider the head path. (All this talk about left/right hand path, use your head! XP )But hey, what's wrong with D&D being considerd evil? What's so bad about evil? So people whisper paranoid stories about you, so they think you're a ticking time-bomb, embrace it, let thier fear and ignorance taste like fine whine.. And infact, encourage them in thier faulty belief, it only makes you appear in control of the situation, and always one step ahead.
The pious pretense that evil does not exist only makes it vague, enormous and menacing.
Caution: some strong words follow. Sorry in advance.
Please stop this childish pretense of being evil. Evil in my book has nothing to do with frightening people naive enough to believe this behavior. Evil would be 9/11 or the Holocaust or the mass rapes and murders in former Yugoslavia, not someone pretending to be an evil devil worshipper (or whatever). Quoting Crowley, of all madmen...
D&D has been believed to be evil strong enough that in 2nd Ed. AD&D the use of the words demons and devils has been banned by the publishers for fear of being denounced satanistic or something like that. Thats what is bad about D&D being seen as evil: popular opinion has a negative influence on my hobby, and thats something I do not like to see.
Sorry for this rant, but I could not stand that. Visit a concentration camp once and see and read about the Holocaust,and you know what true evil looks like.
Stefan
Heh, Gotta love Jack Chick. My aunt used to give me those books when I was a kid. My other aunt actually had the insight to ask me to let her play so she could find out for herself. I knew what she was up to and set her character on a mission from the church to set up a mission in a backwater country. No demons. No devils. Heck, I didn't even use goblins or orcs. Just regular humans.
Then my parents started getting on me about how it was an addiction, like a drug. I looked at my dad and told him flat out that I would quit gaming altogether if he quit smoking (2 packs a day) and drinking (2L of whiskey between he and my step-mom a week), and see who fell off the wagon first. He didn't even bite.
I used to tell my aunt that I had moved on th Warhammer. She hadn't heard of it so it was OK for me to play. Granted every adventure involved summoning a daemon, and almost every picture in the original book involved demons, but it wasn't D&D, so it was OK.
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Caution: some strong words follow. Sorry in advance.Please stop this childish pretense of being evil. Evil in my book has nothing to do with frightening people naive enough to believe this behavior. Evil would be 9/11 or the Holocaust or the mass rapes and murders in former Yugoslavia, not someone pretending to be an evil devil worshipper (or whatever). Quoting Crowley, of all madmen...
D&D has been believed to be evil strong enough that in 2nd Ed. AD&D the use of the words demons and devils has been banned by the publishers for fear of being denounced satanistic or something like that. Thats what is bad about D&D being seen as evil: popular opinion has a negative influence on my hobby, and thats something I do not like to see.
Sorry for this rant, but I could not stand that. Visit a concentration camp once and see and read about the Holocaust,and you know what true evil looks like.
Stefan
I agree 100% with Stebehil.
I agree with Ultradan.
Ultradan
"D&D is evil" found his way in France, there was some papers about roleplaying games leading to suicide, to satanism, to breaking tombs in cemetery, same think about hard rock music.
Papers written by journalists who never met a roleplayer, never read a rulebook, only speaking about what they don't know.
Indeed, the anime community is finding the same problem - journalists who know nothing about a niche hobby will gladly write poorly-researched articles, because they're getting paid for it. If someone offered you $200 and you had no journalistic integrity (or really needed the money), you might do the same. Greed is a powerful motivator.
I can't verify these statistics, but I had heard that D&D players actually had a lower rate of suicide than other people of their age category. It makes sense, since D&D is something that can bring nerdy kids together and give them something to look forward to each week.
Even so, roleplaying gamers committing suicide isn't statistically unusual. 3,971 young people in the States committed suicide in 2001. WotC statistics taken in 2000 say that 2% of Americans play D&D at least monthly. Statistically, that means that perhaps eighty young people who play D&D, commit suicide. A handful of cases over ten years doesn't prove any link; if we get statistics of over a hundred D&D players in the States committing suicide in any given year, then we have something to worry about.
Unfortunatly I cannot seem to ever be able to get into MSN so messaging is not an option. Hmmm...*wonders if there was a homepage thing under personal...*
Lilith wrote:
A side note, when I worked at Barnes & Noble we had a big furor over a particular photographer's book that had naked children in it. Some fool believed that B&N was supporting child pornography by selling it. Of course, many believed the fool, despite never actually opening the book up and looking at it to see what the furor was. I was so happy when a family came in and requested to see the book so that they could understand what the issue was, and make a decision for themselves. We had the whole nine yards - protesters and all - outside the front door of the store. I also loved the company's stance on selling the book - "It is not the practice of Barnes & Noble, or any of its subsidiary companies, to practice the censorship of books, nor restrict the First Amendment in any way." (A clarification point - said book was "art photography" of children running around naked outside, not blatant sexual exploitation. The photographer had the parents' full consent for the pictures - he pretty much done every thing he could not to be labeled "child porn".)
I interned with my friend Dan, who is a professional fantasy illustrator now, when I was 18 and found this photographer's book on one of his shelves. I started looking through it and he told me the the FBI had actually raided this artist's studio (I forgot his name unfortunately) and charged him with child pornography and burned all of his negatives and everything else they could get their hands on. When it came time for the actual trial, the judge took a look at the photos that were kept as evidence and said,"These are beautiful" and dismissed the whole thing. You can be surprised just as often by other people's tolerance as by their ignorance. Growing up in the Northeast, my sixth grade teacher actually introduced me to AD&D and a lot of highschool teachers (usually in the math and history departments) played D&D themselves. Doesn't mean they weren't creepy, but we had something in common. The only time I ever heard of the 'D&D is evil' arguement was from a teacher that grew up in the '70s. I guess it's just a combination of where you live and how many people grew up playing D&D.
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Wicca, bleh, don't get The Koga started on Wicca..
Heh, The Koga has never EVER come across that problem, and he's got tons of Christian friends, infact, thier parents like The Koga, they think he's a good example, smart, and very Christian-like.
Meanwhile, when they're not looking, he calls himself a Satanic Preist, and awaits the day The Illummanati takes over and assumes thier New World Order..
He tried to bring it to thier attention subtely, by wearing a Triquetra. (Which means triple aspect of the Goddess in Wicca, but also means The Beast to Luciferians because it looks like a 6 three times.) They didn't even notice, but then again, the symbol was on a little poster of "Christian cults", so they just assumed The Koga was one of those wierdo Jehova's Witnesses or something. HE CAN'T WIN! >: \
But, no matter, he flexes his evil muscle, like when Crystal wouldn't go out with him but flirted with him and crap, if it wasn't for her, The Koga would've never met any of the church goers or her dad or anything, who all liked him..
Crystal: You better stop being mean to me or i'll tell everybody your secret. >: )
Koga: Go ahead woman, The Koga has been betrayed a thousand times, and it only deepens his desire to be one with the shadows! Tell everyone and thier mother, that way, after they've done retaliated, they come to the relization that thier children, God, and themselves would not have had to be exposed to such trash had you not been a little *Koga says the H word! Well actually W, but whatever* and invited him into thier lives. You you are to blame, you danced with the devil! Or atleast one of his followers, so by all means, enlighten the masses. >: DNeedless to say, she kept her mouth shut. Evil is all about being pessemistic, and the great thing about being pessemistic is you're either proven right or pleasently suprised.. >: )
As for D&D, they don't really care, they just think it's some lame game nerds play. (Which is more...
Sorry guys, I think this is the greatest post ever! Dig deep and you might find things hidden beneath the surface.
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And I have my own story of Satanic Panic, from the heart of San Francisco, a town which should really know better. My friend and I were wandering the streets, grocery bags full of old D&D books in tow, trying to sell them to a used bookstore. We find this great old place, all leaning shelves and wall-to-wall paperbacks, and we go up to the nice old lady who runs the place and ask her if she'll take them. She starts looking through my friend's bag-o-books, and says:
"Sorry, I don't take those Dungeons and Dragons books. Haven't sold them since the eighties, since they kept putting all those pictures of demons on the covers."
And she kept going on about the demons for a good long time, and we exited as quickly as we could. It was then I realized that in my bag were the Book of Vile Darkness and AEG's "Evil". Good thing she didn't start rooting through mine...
Okay, all fear of D&D's warm fuzziness aside, who would EVER sell the Book of Vile Darkness? Unless, of course, it was 2nd edition...
Back to the topic, I´m very glad that the whole "D&D is evil" thing never found the way over the Big Pond to Europe (at least, to my knowlegde). In fact, I started playing at the time (1984) when this thing was high in the US. (In germany, themes like radioactive garbage, the new runway for the Frankfurt Airport, the new NATO rockets placed in germany and the ever-looming threat of the cold war were more on the minds of the populace at that time - some offbeat accusations to a very minor new hobby were just nothing to get into the news. The for the most part very secular stance of most germans would not help further the topic either...)
Well, the problem is that America was founded by the Puritans, Religious zealots so up tight the English kicked them out! Personally I think Austrailia had it better being founded by criminals.
lol, if anyone wants to contact The Koga you can add him to your msn list at Savoie16@msn.com don't try emaling him though, he rarely ever checks his email..
Cause perhaps this isn't the best place to get into the method of madness, and The Koga wouldn't want to aggarvate Paizo's forum! They're better then Trigun and hentai dojuinshii combined! (Ok maybe not hentai, but definitely Trigun..)
But yes, they're is alot more to it then The Koga let's on, he's gotten Satanists, Buddhists, Catholics, Mormans, even Muslims to consider the head path. (All this talk about left/right hand path, use your head! XP )
But hey, what's wrong with D&D being considerd evil? What's so bad about evil? So people whisper paranoid stories about you, so they think you're a ticking time-bomb, embrace it, let thier fear and ignorance taste like fine whine.. And infact, encourage them in thier faulty belief, it only makes you appear in control of the situation, and always one step ahead.
The pious pretense that evil does not exist only makes it vague, enormous and menacing.
Dude, grow the F*@# up. First thing, don't quoat Crowley or Levey on a D&D message board at expect anyone to take you serious. Two, You are not 'The Rock', this is not the WWF, and we don't Smell what the Koga is cooking. Three People who are truly evil, don't have to go around telling everyone how bad they are. If you want to talk about how evil you are, go do it at one of the Yahoo message boards for Pagans. This type of crap is why I stopped going to them.
Okay, all fear of D&D's warm fuzziness aside, who would EVER sell the Book of Vile Darkness? Unless, of course, it was 2nd edition...And I have my own story of Satanic Panic, from the heart of San Francisco, a town which should really know better. My friend and I were wandering the streets, grocery bags full of old D&D books in tow, trying to sell them to a used bookstore. We find this great old place, all leaning shelves and wall-to-wall paperbacks, and we go up to the nice old lady who runs the place and ask her if she'll take them. She starts looking through my friend's bag-o-books, and says:
"Sorry, I don't take those Dungeons and Dragons books. Haven't sold them since the eighties, since they kept putting all those pictures of demons on the covers."
And she kept going on about the demons for a good long time, and we exited as quickly as we could. It was then I realized that in my bag were the Book of Vile Darkness and AEG's "Evil". Good thing she didn't start rooting through mine...
Really, I wasn't a great fan of that book. It had some interesting diseases and a couple of monsters I liked, but the best stuff's been converted to 3.5 elsewhere. And I needed more room on my shelf for books I'd use more.
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Really, I wasn't a great fan of that book. It had some interesting diseases and a couple of monsters I liked, but the best stuff's been converted to 3.5 elsewhere. And I needed more room on my shelf for books I'd use more.
Hey Demiurge;
Just a bit of a joke there. I personally love the Book of V.D., but I can understand personal taste (I actually believe I'm in the minority as far as liking evil stuff more than good, but to each their own). I love the descriptions of the Lords of the Nine and the chief demon lords of the Abyss, but if you're not a lover of the lower planes, the space on your shelf could definitely be filled with a more useful book.
Really, I wasn't a great fan of that book. It had some interesting diseases and a couple of monsters I liked, but the best stuff's been converted to 3.5 elsewhere. And I needed more room on my shelf for books I'd use more.Hey Demiurge;
Just a bit of a joke there. I personally love the Book of V.D., but I can understand personal taste (I actually believe I'm in the minority as far as liking evil stuff more than good, but to each their own). I love the descriptions of the Lords of the Nine and the chief demon lords of the Abyss, but if you're not a lover of the lower planes, the space on your shelf could definitely be filled with a more useful book.
Don't get me wrong, I loves me the lower planes... but I have a bunch of Planescape stuff too. It's a cinch redundant.
Is the proud owner of (I think) the only Dark Dungeons t-shirt!
I kid you not. It's the "Blackleaf NOOO!" scene. I photoshopped it a bit, and moved up the "Your character was weak. Her death was inevitable" line the evil DM lady says later and removed the girl with the pigtails. Its a great shirt. I still have that photoshopped image too.
Really what are you supposed to say to those (sad misinformed)people that think D&D is satanic? When someone asks me I have to just stop a second and breathe, and ask them if they know what Star Wars or Lord of the Rings is. Mostly its a yes and i just tell them we're acting out those characters in a pen and paper fantasy setting. *Whew* no one putting me to a torch just yet.
But its been like a recurring thing since i played Magic the Gathering in high school and the school newspaper did an 'expose' on it, even banned from our school for awhile (sometimes people would ante a card they played for, sorta like a pot in poker). What do you do when every nut with a misinformed or otherwise opinion is breathing down your neck, telling you how you shouldn't be doing whatever conflicts with their particular idiology?
What do you do when every nut with a misinformed or otherwise opinion is breathing down your neck, telling you how you shouldn't be doing whatever conflicts with their particular idiology?
Stand up and defend your right to have a hobby that doesn't harm anybody involved, is a great intellectual exercise, and is a way for people to socialize together.
Err...uh...sorry. It's my rah-rah-rah-shish-boom-bah side rearing its head - my belief that you should stand up for the things that you believe in, despite the opposition. :-D
I think (and I could be wrong), that some people here are misreading the Koga. He has an interesting way of putting it, but I believe what he's saying is not that he's personally evil or thinks himself to be so, but that he doesn't really care if others do. Why should we have to explain ourselves time and again to people whose minds we can't really change anyway? Granted, I would not be as extreme as the examples the Koga described, but I too see little point in trying to explain anything to an intellectual brick wall.
TK
Between M. Fatman and The Koga I really hope this is a couple of rare occurances. I'd hate to think that the boards average intelligence is creeping downwards.
FH
I don't see the similarity between a poster with incredibly bad grammar, manners, and offensive language (and screenname), and one who has only mildly bad grammar and posts in third person. Everyone has their quirks, and Koga's writing style is not an offensive one.
TK
I think (and I could be wrong), that some people here are misreading the Koga. He has an interesting way of putting it, but I believe what he's saying is not that he's personally evil or thinks himself to be so, but that he doesn't really care if others do. Why should we have to explain ourselves time and again to people whose minds we can't really change anyway? Granted, I would not be as extreme as the examples the Koga described, but I too see little point in trying to explain anything to an intellectual brick wall.
TK
Well, I surely don´t care if anyone thinks himself evil, but if someone lets others believe he is evil, and connects himself to the hobby I like and puts that as evil, too, then I object.
The Kogas posts don´t seem to me as if he even tried to explain to other people what he does, but on the contrary, leads them to believe that he is evil and what he does is evil, too. That those people believing it may be brickheaded is no argument to continue. This seems childish to me, sorry.Brickheaded people can and do push their viewpoints through - Prohibition era or McCarthy era, anyone ? Just because people may be stupid, they may still be powerful enough to give you trouble.
Stefan
Back to the topic, I´m very glad that the whole "D&D is evil" thing never found the way over the Big Pond to Europe (at least, to my knowlegde).
If gaming really lets you cast spells, summon demons and leads you to mass murder, then I would have to have a really bloody record after 22 years - let me think ... no, I haven´t cast a single spell, summoned not one demon (not even one of the lowliest) and never even attacked, much less killed anyone.
(Fencing and Martial Arts training and LARP (faked) fights notwithstanding)
The subject pops up here and there, but I guess most non-gamers have even heard of these accusations how D&D causes satan worship and suicides...hearing those things about heavy metal is bit more common but still relatively rare :)
Oh, as an aside, I just remembered that i have actually tried to cast a Malayan death curse I found from Golden Bough by Jamer Frazer. Didn't work, as far as I know the target is still among the living (she, a devout sceptic, volunteered...)
But hey, what's wrong with D&D being considerd evil? What's so bad about evil? So people whisper paranoid stories about you, so they think you're a ticking time-bomb, embrace it, let thier fear and ignorance taste like fine whine.. And infact, encourage them in thier faulty belief, it only makes you appear in control of the situation, and always one step ahead.
~taking the gloves off~
What are you... 12? This is a lovely little piece of prose, designed to elicit a false sense of security and superiority over the less enlightened masses.
Well let me let you in on a little secret... the less enlightened masses RUN THE SHOW.
Don't believe me?
Visit any activist group working to promote tolerence and ask them why they do what they do. I don't care which one... pick one. You'll hear the same patterns over and over... fear and ignorance of the masses resulting in harm:
-gay bashing (literaly, sometimes)
-pagans loosing their jobs, their children, their homes
-the West Memphis Three (look it up)
-the child care "Satanic" ritual abuse scare of the 80's resulting in child care centers around the country shutting down and people's lives being ruined... all a result of poor child interview techniques that projected the adult interviewers' own FEAR AND IGNORANCE.
Your little mindset there is great when you're living with mommy and daddy and can afford to be a rebel-without-a-cause. Step into the real freaking world for about 5 minutes and actually LEARN about how you ARE vulnerable... so much more vulnerable than you think... to EXACTLY how much harm fear and ignorance can do to YOU if the wrong people decide they want to make you an example.
I agree that the ignorant masses run the show. It's fairly obvious.
I was going to post something about fighting back and trying to earn a world where the open minded can reign supream but then I started to think realistically.
There are too many of "them" to fight and overthrow and they are too stupid to stand down peacably.
........now I'm just depressed
I'm curious though. What do people even know about D&D. A good friend of mine (but not a player) thought that we couldn't speak when we played. That PEN and PAPER meant that was all we used to communicate, and he had no idea that dice were involved at all.
Well, most of you convinced me that the satan scare vs. D&D was largely a thing of the past in the following thread:
Dragon 341 Unwise Choice of Cover Titles?
However, I am going to have to agree that only a few people like Koga, who enjoy being rebellious and stating that they're "evil" or whatever can ruin the impression that some people may get of our hobby, certainly more than one magazine cover title can.
I would venture to say that if the Koga plays D&D and everyone knows that he plays D&D, and he spouts off all that "revel in your evilness" b$$%@+!$ around "normal" people, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that those whose conscience he intentionally tries to shock would probably ever try to play D&D, or develop at least a neutral opinion about the hobby.
Tiger Lilly and Stebehil--you guys are right. Sorry, Koga, I tried to defend you earlier in the thread, but your last post about how you consider yourself evil didn't exactly endear yourself to some of us.
I think the Koga has realized that in order to shock his family or friends, he has to go beyond bodypiercing, tattooing and all that other stuff that used to shock the conscience but is now considered commonplace. He wants a unique identity, and is going to great lengths to establish one by wrapping himself around this "evil" thing. Koga, I'll send you a bill for the psychoanalysis, okay? Please correct me if you think I'm wrong.
Koga, I'll still read your posts and I'd still be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.....just remember that the majority of your audience on these boards are mature, responsible, intelligent members of their respective societies, many with jobs, kids and great responsibilities. If you fall into this category as well, then I would really be alarmed.
Unlike most of the people here, I can believe what Koga says. Seriously, he's either putting on an act, being immature, or he's really evil. I can believe him because I fight with that part of me evey day. Also, in defense of the third person references, my nickname with my friends is Choda. When I'm hangin' with my friends I talk in the third person alot, it's just part of being da Choda. I got my nickname from a pic I drew, which I have on the web if you want to see it. da Choda don't give a rat's furry *** if you believe him or not, and da Choda couldn't care any less what you think of him. da Choda is da Choda, so live with it. Same with Koga, da Choda would venture to guess, so if you have a problem just ignore Koga, skip his posts. Nuthin' more anyone can do 'bout it. farewell2kings, I happen to have a job, gettin' another, I have a baby girl on her way (due in June), and I have responsiblities.
~taking the gloves off~What are you... 12? This is a lovely little piece of prose, designed to elicit a false sense of security and superiority over the less enlightened masses.
Its pretty clear that this guy is about 12, and not very mature for that. Unfortunately while your right, this kind of impassioned response is just what he is going for, and unfortunately encourages more of the same moronic blather.
From his posts it seems likely that he is smarter than his peers, maybe his parents, who don't really take an interest, and not nearly is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is.
Its easy to basha kid like this. But he is trying to provoke, its probably the only away he can get attention from adults.
Sad, but one of the great things about gamers is their ability to accept people outside the mainstream and embrace them for what they have to offer. I know that I have benifited from the openness and generosity of gamers. When I was young my geeky gaming friends were for the most part my only friends (though we did more than game), and I think that the gaming, the interaction, the dealing with complex issues, and dyamics of the game heped me to mature. I'm on the board because its fun, and I appreciate the exchange of ideas. The Koga (and a few others) appears to be here for other reasons.
For my part my plan is to answer questions and evaluate his serious posts as if he was an adult, and ignore the psychotic ramblings, maybe will both gain something.
Actually it's ranger with deep-hooded dark cloak that covers face and has been enchanted with true seeing and so that he can see through the hood. I can go into deeper detail as to how he looks if you want.
Same with Koga, da Choda would venture to guess, so if you have a problem just ignore Koga, skip his posts. Nuthin' more anyone can do 'bout it. farewell2kings, I happen to have a job, gettin' another, I have a baby girl on her way (due in June), and I have responsiblities.
Like I said in my previous, post, I'm willing to give Koda the benefit of the doubt and I said I would still be willing to read his posts, as I also think that he could benefit from an intelligent discussion with the people on these boards. If you don't hurt anyone else, you can be whatever you want to be in your own head, but if you throw something out there like he did, you have to expect some flak.