I know there have been some discussions on the value of familiers but I felt like a continuance was in order.
I like familiers. Most of the time I keep mine safely tucked away in my robes. As long as she's in there I do not see how he can get killed. I do not see an enemy tageting a tiny snake over me (not that they were likely to see her). And the only thing thats left is an area affect. Improved evasion which all familiers have allows for two things. One, if I make the save and take half damage the familier (that is using my save) is unharmed. Two, I fail the save and take full damage. If the familier also fails he takes half damage. The familier always has half the casters hit points. The only way she dies is if I die first.
But to avoid beating a dead horse please throw in some personally experianced scenario that proves your point. One where a familier contributes significantly or one where the familier is the instigator of certain doom.
Here's mine.
I currently have a gnome sorcerer 2nd lvl that has a familier.
Thumps, a tiny viper with a minor eating disorder. So far the party has just crawled out of their first dungeon so there was not a lot of time for Thumps to shine. However My gnome makes constant use of her poison. Milking her once a day to smear it on one of his crossbow bolts. And in the first dungeon it managed to strike a drow dealing 6 (max) con damage.
I'm not sure about the validity of so easily 'milking' your viper for poison, but I have no rules to back me up either way...
I've been in a game where the sorcerer's familiar saved her from certain death; I'll let her tell the story later.
I'm not sure about the validity of so easily 'milking' your viper for poison, but I have no rules to back me up either way...
I've been in a game where the sorcerer's familiar saved her from certain death; I'll let her tell the story later.
I assume it would require a Craft check as well as the chance of poisoning yourself.
I assume it would require a Craft check as well as the chance of poisoning yourself.I'm not sure about the validity of so easily 'milking' your viper for poison, but I have no rules to back me up either way...
I've been in a game where the sorcerer's familiar saved her from certain death; I'll let her tell the story later.
Seems reasonable.
I ran a campaign in which the sorc had a toad familiar. I allowed him to use spells from Book of Eldritch Might (malhavoc press); his favorite was Vivid Discharge. It's a Personal range spell that is continuous until discharged by someone touching the caster, at which point it deals them an @ssload of damage (I now hate that spell). Malik liked to cast it on his toad, who would then hop up to an enemy and touch them; "oh what a cute little...ZAP!!!"
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I have a classic story but it's not my familiar that did the saving, though I was a player at the table to witness it.
The story begins with some pirates attacking a ship that myself, my brother, my girlfriend and another two players' characters (one a cleric) are on and combat ensues. While myself and my brother's wizard are battling pirates in the section of the boat where the rooms are my girlfriend, the cleric and the other player are out on the deck battling their own group of pirates, along with the wizard's familiar (a rat that was enjoying the night air when we got attacked).
After two rounds of combat my girlfriend's character was unconscious/dying and swept off the deck into the raging sea (we all heard the splash and the cleric yelled that she went over board). Everyone is busy trying not to get killed by the pirates so my brother's wizard yells to the rat to take the end of a coiled rope on the deck out to her. The next round (right before she would start drowning) the cleric casts Close Wounds and she becomes conscious, but is still in the drink, about 10 feet from the ship - bad news. But wait! The little rat swims the rope out to her (being able to take 10 on its swim check of course) and saves her from almost certain death in the murky depths! HAHA! It was great!
That will certainly go down in history as one of the best saves by a familiar. :)
-Shawn S.
I'm finding my own familiar to be rather useful. But then, I'm taking advantage of a particular combo that seems to give it more usefulness.
I've a Changeling Wizard with the Morphic Familiar ability (from racial substitution levels for the wizard, Races of Eberron) and Improved Familiar. The ability itself allows my familiar to become any kind of familiar on the list. And the DM ruled the Improved Familiar feat opens up those choices as well. My character's CG alignment severely limits what options I have, though.
So far, we haven't found it to be unbalancing. I even put in a email to the Sage for a more official answer, but it's been months and I've not gotten a response, so.. :)
I'm not sure what the craft check would be for but I do risk poisioning myself. (my dm actually uped the chance from 5 to 10%)
I have a small waterproof bolt head cozy that sits behind my bolt case. Each morning I have thumps leak poison into the container and I spend a couple moments plunging the missle in and out to make sure the bolthead is covered. I do not see the point in a craft check (how hard could it be to milk an intelligent and willing snake).
I always wanted to see a familier carry holly berry bombs (the fire seeds spell) and plant them stratigically right under enemy forces. After all who would suspect a mouse carrying little berries?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm not sure what the craft check would be for but I do risk poisioning myself. (my dm actually uped the chance from 5 to 10%)
I have a small waterproof bolt head cozy that sits behind my bolt case. Each morning I have thumps leak poison into the container and I spend a couple moments plunging the missle in and out to make sure the bolthead is covered. I do not see the point in a craft check (how hard could it be to milk an intelligent and willing snake).
I think the craft check is not for the milking, but for the preparation and preservation of the poison. If snake venom is good right out of the snake, then you probably wouldn't need a craft skill (just like you don't need craft:weaponsmithing to pick up a stick of wood and use it as a club). On the other hand, if you need to treat the poison to make it last longer/stick to a weapon/etc, then presumably a craft skill comes into play.
I think what he was saying, when referring to the vailidity of milking the snake for poison, was the fact that it simply does not produce that much poison. It's a tiny viper.
If you are blasted by a fireball there is a chance your snake is going up, too.
If you are fighting an enemy mage why would you think he wouldnt go after your familiar? He is quite...familiar (no pun intended) with the debilitating effects of the death a mage's familiar and I think he would go after it givin the opportunity.
I have a hawk familiar, ranger/fighter, and he is usually out doing his own bird thing. That is more feasable than "tucking him under my robes" Familiars are living beings who still have their own will and basic needs.
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I used to own a ball-python and an Iguana(he was about 5' long when someone stole him from me) and the python would go anywhere I went without any problem and I carried a small burlap bag that he would go into anytime he wanted to rest. The lizard hung out with me all the time climbing from shoulder to shoulder and into my jacket in the winter (before he got big) and once he got big I would take him for walks on a leash with a cat collar and he never fussed while walking.
I don't think it is unreasonable to consider that with a master/familiar bond that a familiar would be quite happy with hanging out anywhere its master is. If you were a Ranger/fighter then you had an animal companion which is a different relationship than a wizard with its familiar. The bond between spellcaster and familiar is on a much deeper level considering their empathic/telepathic bond and the sharing of a bonding of one to the other.
FH
I'm not sure what the craft check would be for but I do risk poisioning myself. (my dm actually uped the chance from 5 to 10%)
I have a small waterproof bolt head cozy that sits behind my bolt case. Each morning I have thumps leak poison into the container and I spend a couple moments plunging the missle in and out to make sure the bolthead is covered. I do not see the point in a craft check (how hard could it be to milk an intelligent and willing snake).
Actually, the craft check isn't to get the venom, nor is it about the quantity of venom you can get from a tiny viper. The craft check is in stabilizing it so that it doesn't degrade into uselessness instantly upon exposure to air and light. Venom is meant to be pumped directly from the gland into the bloodstream. (The Book of Vile Darkness explains in more detail.)
My favorite use of familiars has always been a higher level one: using the Scry on Familiar ability to get a good look at an area so that you can teleport into a choice spot.
I used to own a ball-python and an Iguana(he was about 5' long when someone stole him from me) and the python would go anywhere I went without any problem and I carried a small burlap bag that he would go into anytime he wanted to rest. The lizard hung out with me all the time climbing from shoulder to shoulder and into my jacket in the winter (before he got big) and once he got big I would take him for walks on a leash with a cat collar and he never fussed while walking.
I don't think it is unreasonable to consider that with a master/familiar bond that a familiar would be quite happy with hanging out anywhere its master is. If you were a Ranger/fighter then you had an animal companion which is a different relationship than a wizard with its familiar. The bond between spellcaster and familiar is on a much deeper level considering their empathic/telepathic bond and the sharing of a bonding of one to the other.FH
I understand the point you are trying to make regarding the different bonds between wiz/sorc and a ranger. However, your example of your personal pets is lacking. I mean, if you were to remove the collar on your iguana in a location it finds attractive, how long until he runs off to do what he wants? Same with your snake. Pythons tend to not move around so much but Im sure that, given the opportunity, he would rather slither up a tree than hang out in your burlap sack.
Animal Companion story: In the SCAP, the party Druid's animal companion wolf - named, I kid you not, "Twinkle," was introduced with much ridicule (I mean, come on, "Twinkle"?) but quickly turned out to be a tripping, biting, enemy crunching machine. They stopped laughing.
After a few levels, he lagged a little in effectiveness, however, the party was so enamoured of him they kept him around. At 9th level, the Druid took the leadership feat, used 'Awaken' on Twinkle, and now has him as a cohort (with three levels of Scout). He picked up a Dire Wolf as his animal companion thereafter...
...named "Sparkle."
Familiar story: The Wizard/Rogue in the SCAP adventure path took one level of wizard just so he could have a raven familiar. That bird has been so useful it's not funny - he calls out for aid if the party splits up and gets into trouble (he stays with the group that doesn't include his master), and often manages to let the group know when the Wizard/Rogue has done something stupid - again - and gotten into trouble.
His name? "Quoth."
I understand the point you are trying to make regarding the different bonds between wiz/sorc and a ranger. However, your example of your personal pets is lacking. I mean, if you were to remove the collar on your iguana in a location it finds attractive, how long until he runs off to do what he wants? Same with your snake. Pythons tend to not move around so much but Im sure that, given the opportunity, he would rather slither up a tree than hang out in your burlap sack.
For an ordinary animal you may be right, but for a familiar you wouldn't need a leash, the bond would be enough.
Likewise, a familiar is likely to prefer the company of the wizard/sorcerer that it's bonded to and be unlikely to go slither up a tree, even if such a position would be more comfortable.
Familiars are NOT animal companions... and you needn't fear them running off like a pet.
- Ashavan
For an ordinary animal you may be right, but for a familiar you wouldn't need a leash, the bond would be enough.
Likewise, a familiar is likely to prefer the company of the wizard/sorcerer that it's bonded to and be unlikely to go slither up a tree, even if such a position would be more comfortable.
Familiars are NOT animal companions... and you needn't fear them running off like a pet.
- Ashavan
*scratching head* But....that was exactly the point I was trying to make....
Actually, the craft check isn't to get the venom, nor is it about the quantity of venom you can get from a tiny viper. The craft check is in stabilizing it so that it doesn't degrade into uselessness instantly upon exposure to air and light. Venom is meant to be pumped directly from the gland into the bloodstream. (The Book of Vile Darkness explains in more detail.)
Good point. There's a reason it's an injury poison rather than a contact poison. Now, an animated fungus as an improved familiar? That could be interesting... Then there's those frogs with the poison sweat... But even then I suppose that the poison would need to be preserved via a craft check to still be potent on a weapon rather than on the host body.
So, has anyone made an all-construct character? Say, a warforged wizard with one of the mechanical familiars from the latest Dragon, a homunculus, a construct mount, and an inevitable cohort (with modron followers, of course)? That could be pretty freaky.
So, has anyone made an all-construct character? Say, a warforged wizard with one of the mechanical familiars from the latest Dragon, a homunculus, a construct mount, and an inevitable cohort (with modron followers, of course)? That could be pretty freaky.
In my games there are atrificers that have made iron defenders and homunculi and furtive filchers to great effect.
I'm running a mystic-theurge-to-be cleric/sorceror in a FR campaign. He just got a familiar, a cat. The rest of the party made fun of her until most of us were entangled and my character's familiar was able to run around the party and deliver my character's touch buff spells while they were unable to move.
Cat's name is "Bren" after the light machine gun from World War II. I always name my characters' familiars after machineguns--Gatling the rat, Vickers the raven and Ma Deuce the ferret are all familiars from my gaming past.
My friends and I also name our male dogs after World War II generals whose name started with "M". My dog is MacArthur and my friends' dogs were named Monty and Manstein, respectively.
Yes, my friends are also gamers....what can I say--we're a weird bunch of people.
Cat's name is "Bren" after the light machine gun from World War II. I always name my characters' familiars after machineguns--Gatling the rat, Vickers the raven and Ma Deuce the ferret are all familiars from my gaming past.
I can't wait to hear what you pick for MG-42. Maybe a permanently hasted pseudodragon? :-D
That's pretty funny, but my next arcane caster's familiar is going to be Browning the Bat.....the machinegun has to have an actual name, not just a number.....although a permanently hasted pseudodragon would probably make that buzzsaw sound...
So, has anyone made an all-construct character? Say, a warforged wizard with one of the mechanical familiars from the latest Dragon, a homunculus, a construct mount, and an inevitable cohort (with modron followers, of course)? That could be pretty freaky.
My player is a construct character of the fighter class in our Age of Worms right now, when I brought home #341 of Dragon he immediatly started flipping out when he saw the Glass Dragonfly and then decided to multiclass as an air-sorceror as soon as possible!
I saw this thread the other day and passed your idea for construct mounts and cohorts onto him and he loves it!Thanks. :)
I saw this thread the other day and passed your idea for construct mounts and cohorts onto him and he loves it!
Thanks. :)
Hehehe... I had a warforged artificer at one point who was going to eventually take levels in Effigy Master so that he could make an Effigy Chocobo (printed in Dragon 323, the first issue with the new cover style)! He was going to create docents for the 'riding bird' that would give it different abilities and modes of movement. Fun imagery.
Ah... bless Shaw and his quick little paws. My ice caster was saved by her cat. The cat, named Shaw, was given to her as a young girl by a soc. who's familiar had had kittens and later became Carol's familiar (my charater). During the course of the adventure I found myself frustrated with how belittled he seemed next the the other soc's improved familiar mephit.
However one day during an epic battle with the big bad spellcastor chick, Shaw saved his master's life.
DM: She is casting a spell.
Me: Spellcraft (passed)
DM: Disentgerate. What's your touch AC again Carol? (he rolls)
ME: Oh... that hit's doesn't it.
DM: Fort save
Me: (rolls dice) (failed) S$%%... um... anyone got a blank charater sheet?...
DM: Roll a reflex save.
ME: What? (rolls dice and passes)
DM: Roll another fort save
ME: (rolls and fails) Ok...
DM: As the spells deadly ray travels toward Carol, Shaw bravely leaps in front of his master to save her. The ray hits him, turning him instantly to dust as Shaw makes the ultimate scarfice for Carol.
At the time we had to then escape the building. Carol quickly scooped up the ashes of her beloved familiar. Later in the quest as a gift for saving the world Carol awoke to find her familiar had been brought back to life.
Never underestimate the power of the feline.
Later in the quest as a gift for saving the world Carol awoke to find her familiar had been brought back to life.
Well, not the world, technically. Just a floating continent... actually not even that, because we caused it to crash to the ground I don't know how far down (it was up above the clouds). But we did save the souls of the people living on the continent from be used to keep it afloat, even if most of them did die because of the crash and the survivors don't even know the choice we made for them. Ah, difficult choices - though it actually wasn't all that difficult a choice to make at the time, me being a paladin of the god of death, and the villain being a necromancer trying to use the souls of the dead... *shrugs*
/threadhack
on an on-topic note, the title of this thread reminds me of a chipmunk familiar. Get it?
on an on-topic note, the title of this thread reminds me of a chipmunk familiar. Get it?
'Ch, ch, ch, ch, Chip and Dale!
Rescue rangers!':)
before to long, you kill the familiar yourself even though it means experience loss.
Otherwise, yeah, they're great.
*laughs*
Coke has gone all over my keyboard and right up me nose!
Lovely.before to long, you kill the familiar yourself even though it means experience loss.
Otherwise, yeah, they're great.
*laughs*
Coke has gone all over my keyboard and right up me nose!
It was quite bubbly :)
on an on-topic note, the title of this thread reminds me of a chipmunk familiar. Get it?'Ch, ch, ch, ch, Chip and Dale!
Rescue rangers!':)
HA! I'm glad I'm not the only one who got the reference.
I can definatly see a gnome walking through town with that crazy whoppee cushion/zepplin thingy zipping all over the place with a mouse at the helm.