Gardens of the Moon was simply fantastic. This guy put a lot of effort into this World Of Malazan with great structure and in depth characters. Deadhouse Gates was not quite as good, a little long in the middle but good start and finish. I have yet to read Memories of Ice having picked up Greg Keyes "The Charnel Prince" but I eagerly await the read. If you are into intelligent fantasy based around a militant world, then this is your stuff.
Gardens of the Moon was simply fantastic. This guy put a lot of effort into this World Of Malazan with great structure and in depth characters. Deadhouse Gates was not quite as good, a little long in the middle but good start and finish. I have yet to read Memories of Ice having picked up Greg Keyes "The Charnel Prince" but I eagerly await the read. If you are into intelligent fantasy based around a militant world, then this is your stuff.
I actually just finished Memories of Ice. A very good book in my opinion. I'm impresed with the series as a whole and am going to have to get some of the print editions of later books that are availible from overseas (I believe books 4 and 5 are currently out there). The books have a few long parts overall, but the sheer depth of history, mythology and twists to the storyline involved seem to make it necessary.
I like his conception of how magics, 'gods' and all work in that world. One of the more original that I've come across in recent times. I'd have to say these are some of the best books on average that I have read in quite some time, at least in the fantasy genre.
Greg Keyes is an author I haven't tried out yet, might have to look into some of his books.
I have read 'The Briar King' by Keyes and he is a pretty decent writer. Bear with him at the start and it gets grim and dirty in the middle and then turns into rousing adventure in the end. I was about to start the second in the series, 'The Charnel Prince' but instead picked up George RR Martin's 'A Game of Thrones' instead because of a recommendation from a friend. That seems fine as well so far.
I have read 'The Briar King' by Keyes and he is a pretty decent writer. Bear with him at the start and it gets grim and dirty in the middle and then turns into rousing adventure in the end. I was about to start the second in the series, 'The Charnel Prince' but instead picked up George RR Martin's 'A Game of Thrones' instead because of a recommendation from a friend. That seems fine as well so far.
I've read Martin's books, through 'A Feast for Crows'. I like them a great deal, just don't get too attatched to all the characters, there is a fairly high mortality rate in the series.
Do you have the Space Channel where you are, Blubbernaught? If not type Space Channel: The Imagination Station into Google. There's an interesting little blurb and a contest for George RR Martin fans there. I would add the link here but I just woke up and I am too lazy. I like the winter setting so far in A Game of Thrones. Suits me here in the Land Of Snow, Canada.
Do you have the Space Channel where you are, Blubbernaught? If not type Space Channel: The Imagination Station into Google. There's an interesting little blurb and a contest for George RR Martin fans there. I would add the link here but I just woke up and I am too lazy. I like the winter setting so far in A Game of Thrones. Suits me here in the Land Of Snow, Canada.
Thanks for the info, it's easy enough to do a quick search. No space channel currently (Due to financial reasons I don't have cable or satelite, so my TV viewing is pretty limited ATM) I love the series so far, but this post is about Erikson, so I'll head back his way real quick.
You mentioned that you're up in Canada, which if I remember correctly is where Erikson himself lives (Albeit Canada is pretty big). Are the books following 'Memories of Ice' (Book 3) availible there? I know that down here, that is the most recent one in print. But he has published up through book 5 or 6 I believe. I'm chomping at the bit for the next books. Same as I am for the folloup to 'A Feast for Crows' by Martin.
I have to learn to slow my reading down to like 5 books a year so the authors I really like can keep up. Hmmm...
Yes, currently I have House of Chains and Memories of Ice borrowed from the library and Midnight Tides is available here as well. I have put them on the backburner for now because I have just finished Deadhouse Gates and as you know, these books aren't exactly easy to read or to be taken lightly. Check out http://www.malazanempire.com/site/index.shtml for the order they come in. I think the new one The Bonehunters is available here in March.
Wow, A Game of Thrones starts off like the Robin Hobb's books so far, with the dogs and such. That's another author you might want to look into if you haven't already.
I am about three quarters of the way through Memories of Ice and I must say it is a lot better than the first two in the series. A lot more monsters, fantastic elements such as high sorcery and gods and bloody swordplay. Good fun.
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I am about three quarters of the way through Memories of Ice and I must say it is a lot better than the first two in the series. A lot more monsters, fantastic elements such as high sorcery and gods and bloody swordplay. Good fun.
I got bogged down in Deadhouse Gates a few years ago and never finished it. I'll pick it up again and give it a go.
I am about three quarters of the way through Memories of Ice and I must say it is a lot better than the first two in the series. A lot more monsters, fantastic elements such as high sorcery and gods and bloody swordplay. Good fun.I got bogged down in Deadhouse Gates a few years ago and never finished it. I'll pick it up again and give it a go.
Yes, Deadhouse Gates is definitely the weakest of the series and my vote goes to Memories of Ice as the best after just finishing House of Chains. Mr Erikson can be very longwinded at times.
Well, each book is what, 1200 pages or so in softcover? Long winded isn't exactly a surprise. ;)
Erikson is one of my favourite authors right now. The whole series has been very good and I'm chomping at the bit for the next one, which is due out very soon I believe.
Man I would LOVE to see a d20 stat up of a sapper.
Well, each book is what, 1200 pages or so in softcover? Long winded isn't exactly a surprise. ;)
Erikson is one of my favourite authors right now. The whole series has been very good and I'm chomping at the bit for the next one, which is due out very soon I believe.
Man I would LOVE to see a d20 stat up of a sapper.
The Bonehunters (latest novel) was very good at tying up some loose ends and advancing the story...and it was needed as the whole thing was getting a bit to hard to keep track off..
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Just got done reading Memories of Ice, and loved it. I personally don't think that Deadhouse Gates was very hard to get through, but I've been told that my memory skills are, to put it stupidly, l33t. Memories of Ice did wrap up some things though, and it really helped define some of the other participants in the saga. I particularly liked the history of the Bridgeburners, and about Caladan Brood.
I'll be moving on to House of Chains in a bit, after I finish re-reading one of my favorite novels, Musashi, by Eiji Yoshikawa. Definitely something to check out if you like Warring States samurai tales.
Really wishing us Americans could get Erikson's books faster though. I know that I'll just blaze straight through House of Chains, and spend forever waiting for Midnight Tides.
Today's command word is 'Spinach'.
Really wishing us Americans could get Erikson's books faster though. I know that I'll just blaze straight through House of Chains, and spend forever waiting for Midnight Tides.
Just order Midnight Tides and The Bonehunters from Amazon.ca (Canada). You can usually get the books in a few weeks at most.
Contributor
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So I have this theory about the races in the Malazan books.
I'm dead certain that Erikson is a gamer. I'm pretty sure he's disguised the standard fantasy races by having the humans actually be the equivelant of halflings or gnomes.
Humans=Halflings
T'lan Imass=Dwarves. Slightly bigger than 'humans,' but stocky and thick-boned, with an affinity for stone.
Tiste Andi=Drow. Bigger than 'humans,' magic, black skin white hair
Tiste Edur etc.=other Elves
Jhagut=Orcs. Bigger than 'humans,' green skinned with tusks
Theloman Toblakai=Humans. Bigger than 'humans,' but otherwise look similar. Can breed with Jhagut to create...
Jhag=Half-Orcs.
I suspect that the various human sub-types that claim descent from the T'lan are gnomes.
Just to be clear, I know that the Toblakai have four lungs or whatever. I don't actually think they are human, I just think this was his basis for creating his races.
House of Chains
[spoiler]
I find it particularly ironic that the first section of House of Chains is written to fool the reader into thining that Toblakai is normal-sized, until you realize that the 'children' he is fighting are humans. I think this was a secret little joke by the author
[/spoiler]
Hmmm. I tried to do nested spoilers, but it didn't work
Gardens of the Moon was simply fantastic. This guy put a lot of effort into this World Of Malazan with great structure and in depth characters. Deadhouse Gates was not quite as good, a little long in the middle but good start and finish.
I have to agree.
I did read these two books a long time ago in a dutch translation.Sadly they only translated these two books in the series.
Maybe i have to give it a go in the english language.
but to be honest i did found the 'Deadhouse Gates' a little hard to follow, even in my native language.
I finished Deadhouse Gates and wasn't impressed--I have to admit I kind of liked the long march, that was actually a nice bit of writing. However the other stuff, the girl becoming the chosen one and all that, I thought "gee, that's fresh" and was tempted to skip past all that. Somehow the parts with the girl and her so called protectors made me want to grind my teeth.
So...is the series worth keeping on with?
I finished Deadhouse Gates and wasn't impressed--I have to admit I kind of liked the long march, that was actually a nice bit of writing. However the other stuff, the girl becoming the chosen one and all that, I thought "gee, that's fresh" and was tempted to skip past all that. Somehow the parts with the girl and her so called protectors made me want to grind my teeth.
So...is the series worth keeping on with?
Yes....
I seem to remember that the deadhouse gates was a slow book, yet it was well worth it. I've recently finished the last one and am eagerly awaiting the next one.
To the dutch poster: Yup, just get the english versions. I started in Dutch as well but switched after the next book became available.
To the dutch poster: Yup, just get the english versions. I started in Dutch as well but switched after the next book became available.
I will when i get some more time on my hands.
I really did love the detailed characters. And lot's o original ones.|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Well, I'm just over halfway through Gardens of the Moon now. It seems to be good sections which are deliberatley vague when I really want more detail, surrounded by slow sections full of characters who aren't really introduced at all, who nod meaningfully at each other before muttering something and disappearing.
Not sure it's worth struggling through it when I've got Charlie Stross's Halting State winking at me and I just know it'll be a blast.
So I have this theory about the races in the Malazan books.
** spoiler omitted **
[/spoiler]
Hmmm. I tried to do nested spoilers, but it didn't work
You're right - Erikson is a gamer. The whole Malazan series is his homebrew campaign setting, along with writing partner/fellow gamer Ian Cameron Esselmont.
The books are all extraordinarily bewildering and good. I'm on volume 7 right now - Reaper's Gale - with volume 8 - Toll the Hounds - sitting on my bookshelf. And I just saw Cameron's prequel, the Crimson Guard, at a store.
I need more time!
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The books honestly don't seem to be written to be fully understood from just that book. I continually get the feeling from the earlier books that he expects you to read the first four to understand it all. The later ones are a bit better about most of this, with Toll the Hounds, the latest one, being pretty much self-encapsulated.
Slightly surprised not to see more discussion of Erikson here, given his setting is derived from a roleplaying game. Seemed a good fit :)
One of the previous posters is right. Erikson and his collaborator Ian Cameron Esslemont (ICE) created the Malazan world for their homebrew AD&D 1st Edition game in 1982, although they changed the rules a lot. Anomander Rake and Caladan Brood were NPCs created by ICE, whilst characters like Kellanved, Dancer, Laseen, Whiskeyjack, Quick Ben, Fiddler and Kalam were PCs in the gaming group. The campaign they played and which lasted for several years was how a bunch of disparate political exiles congregating in an inn in Malaz City forged an Empire spanning four continents.
The group split up in the late 1980s as they started various careers in other fields. Erikson and ICE came up with the storyline for GARDENS OF THE MOON as a movie script which they co-wrote in 1991. Erikson then re-wrote it as a novel which he spent ages trying to sell to publishers but didn't get much luck, even after he had several 'mainstream' novels published in Canada in the 1990s. After moving to the UK in the late 1990s he started writing MEMORIES OF ICE and was halfway through it when a computer error saw the whole thing lost forever. He was thus on a bit of a downer when Bantam Books offered him a contract for GARDENS plus nine more books in 1998. The contract was absolutely massive, the largest ever offered for a fantasy series (a record that still stands I believe, although Rothfuss might have broken it recently), and Erikson got to work on DEADHOUSE GATES and a new version of MEMORIES OF ICE. He's been writing at full-tilt ever since.
At the moment there are eight Erikson-written MALAZAN novels and two more written by ICE. The ninth Erikson book, DUST OF DREAMS, comes out in August and is the penultimate book in the main series. It is followed by THE CRIPPLED GOD next year. After that Erikson has plans for a prequel trilogy focusing on the Tiste Andii and Anomander Rake, and a sequel trilogy focusing on Karsa Orlong. ICE's third novel, STONEWIELDER, comes out next year. He has plans for another two or three books after that as well.
I like MALAZAN a fair bit, and I think MEMORIES OF ICE is one of the strongest epic fantasy novels of the last decade. I think the series is structurally ingenious, as it consists of three separate storylines which entwine round one another, rather than one constant, linear narrative. This stops the author and the reader getting bored over the long haul of a ten-volume series. Unfortunately, I also think Erikson got a little bit self-indulgent as the series progressed, and later books seem more focused on 'big literary themes' than action and worldbuilding, the two areas Erikson excels at. THE BONEHUNTERS, REAPER'S GALE and TOLL THE HOUNDS all got quite bogged down in endless naval-gazing rather than getting on with the story, which was a problem.
ICE is a solid writer. His first book, NIGHT OF KNIVES, was short and to the point and a fair bit of fun, but not as well-honed as Erikson. RETURN OF THE CRIMSON GUARD was much better and a much more important book to the series as well (it picks up on events in the Malazan Empire after THE BONEHUNTERS) and features some large series-shaking moments I expect to be referenced in the next Erikson book as well. Well worth checking out.
I read House of Chains first. Almost didn't get through it. Later picked up Gardens of Moon when I was stuck in an airport. That has hooked me on the series. I've still only read the first four, but soon I'll start the fifth.
As mentioned above, what I like are the intertwined storylines. It can make it a little hard to track sometimes, but it's huge fun.
My review of the just-released ninth and penultimate book in the series.
Plot summary:From across the continent of Lether and far beyond, powers and armies are converging on the vast Wastelands to the east of the Letherii Empire. Adjunct Tavore, commander of the the Malazan 14th Army - the Bonehunters - plans to take her army into that wilderness, aided by the Letherii imperial legions under Brys Beddict. To the south her allies, the Perish Grey Helms and Khundryl Burned Tears, barter for passage across the Kingdom of Bolkando, only to be met with betrayal and murder. On the plains of the Ar'kryn, the Barghast White Face clans face insurrection and treachery. A ribbon of refugees flees westward from Kolanse into the Wastelands and the immense Glass Desert, whilst in the far west the Shake abandon their island homeland to seek the First Shore, unaware that their return to their ancestral warren will re-awaken ancient powers.Human and Barghast, K'Chain Che'Malle and T'lan Imass, Shake and Jaghut, mortals and ascendants alike find themselves drawn into a convergence outstripping anything before seen in the mortal realm, for the sky is rent in flame and shadow and a long-imprisoned god returns to the mortal realm with Darkness clenched in his hand. The Bonehunters and their allies march to a war they cannot win to avenge an empire that has rejected them, whilst the K'Chain Che'Malle march to war to end an ancient conflict and find a place for themselves in the world. But under the light of what has appeared in the sky, it appears that all might be in vain...
Dust of Dreams is the penultimate novel of The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson's immense ten-volume saga chronicling the story of the Malazan Empire and its legions and the peoples and tribes it comes into contact with. More accurately, Dust of Dreams is also the first half of an immense 1,800-plus-page single novel, to be completed by The Crippled God when it follows (hopefully) next year. This, then, is the beginning of the end and the start of the final act of this immense series, certainly the most ambitious work of epic fantasy ever attempted.
Reviewing the ninth of a ten-book series feels slightly redundant. By now, people know if Erikson is for them or not. As a result, this review will likely be of most interest to those readers who perhaps felt that the series' second half has been more disappointing than its initial half, with the acceleration of the expansion of the cast of characters, concepts, races and forms of magic reaching an increasingly convoluted and over-complex pace. It is hard to argue with this, and the fact is that Dust of Dreams introduces yet many more new characters, ideas, forms of magic and concepts. Whilst it is certainly the case that we get some long-standing mysteries resolved in this book - like why exactly Tavore had to break with the Malazans and bring her army to the far side of the planet - other mysteries are left unaddressed or even further complicated by events. If Erikson takes the literally hundreds of questions left dangling by the series and answers them satisfyingly in the final book of the series I will be surprised, but I have a nagging feeling that an awful lot of stuff is going to be left for the already-promised nine additional Malazan books that Erikson (and four more from his co-writer Ian Esslemont) has been contracted for.
Dust of Dreams is certainly far more proactive in plot than the largely static and introspective Toll the Hounds, and returns to the format of many of the earlier books in the series: a lot of set-up and ponderous navel-gazing punctuated by some humour followed by a convergence of forces, usually in a massive battle sequence. The humour is great (although Tehol, one of Erikson's more reliable sources of comic relief, is actually severely annoying in this novel) and the characters in the Malazan army and occupied Letheras are mostly well-drawn, but the traditional problems of having tons of pretty identical 'salt of the earth' Malazan soliders with stupid names who can debate morality and political theory at the drop of the hat remains intact. Erikson's characterisation is also suspiciously transparent here: many of these soldiers, established not just here but in The Bonehunters, Reaper's Gale and House of Chains as well, seem to have scenes just so we feel sympathy for them later on when they are killed (or at least their fates are left hanging). For some of the characters this works, but for most it doesn't.
On the prose style, Erikson's writing ability remains impressive but is often mis-aimed: a lengthy five-page debate on morality between two characters often seems to end in the stunning realisation that it's wrong to use civilian shields in warfare, or unrestrained capitalism and the exploitation of poorer nations through trade is as bad in its own way as slavery and colonialism. Stunning insights into the human condition, these are most definitely not. As a result progress through the novel can feel like wading through treacle until the story actually gets moving again.
At the same time, Erikson still has an almost-unmatched ability to bring together subplots and characters in interesting combinations, moreso in Dust of Dreams as more of the puzzle of the entire series is unveiled and we begin to get a sense that most of those annoying minor elements that played virtually no constructive roles in previous books - such as Icarium and his machine, the Eres, the Shake, a certain journey through the Imperial Warren, Stormy and Gesler's long-ago transformation and the endless emo Tiste Andii moping around - are all vital pieces of the puzzle. The sheer breadth of Erikson's imagination, the scope of his world and the ambition of his story remains staggering and genuinely impressive, although arguably the weight of that narrative is so heavy that the author struggles in places to get his vision across.
Events culminate in a battle sequence that redefines the meaning of the word 'epic'. This series has had its share of massive engagements, from the Chain of Dogs through the Siege of Capustation and the Battle of Y'Ghatan through to the Bonehunters' rampage across the Letherii Empire, but what happens at the end of Dust of Dreams and the forces brought to bear eclipse everything that has come before combined. The novel ends on a colossal cliffhanger - for the first and last time in the series - with the immediate threat apparently receding but with the tally of the survivors incomplete. The fates of literally dozens of named characters are left hanging in the balance until the final book arrives, hopefully next year.
Dust of Dreams (****) is a typical latter-period Malazan novel, by turns infuriating and impressive, turgid and lyrical, slow and immensely action-packed. It's a stronger book than The Bonehunters and Toll the Hounds, possibly Reaper's Gale as well, and leaves the reader wanting more, which in the final analysis is a good thing, but there remains the nagging feeling that if Erikson could cut to the chase a bit more, the series would not only be shorter but also considerably stronger. Still, a bit late in the day to worry about that now. The book is available now in the UK and will be published in the USA on 19 January 2010.