Am I a munchkin or not?
I had a character die in Aow and I had to make a new one. I decided I wanted to play another rouge but I ended up rolling an eighteen and I thought it would be cool to play an immensly strong "combat" centric rouge (this as opposed to the freakishly agile dual shortsword weilders I normally play) I wanted a two handed weapon but I thought a feat was two big a price, so I decided to take a level of ranger since the BAB was nice tracking was nice the saves were nice. Then I took Undead as my favored enemy because they are immune to criticals (my sneak attack) and very common monsters to fight.
During the process I created a backround for the character that I think made sense. Originally he was the typical rapier weilding rouge in a party headed to the Aow starting toen ( I can't believe I forgot the name) despite his best friend Gurdenen (a halbard wielding dwarf) constanly harassing him that a Man his size should use a "man's" weapon. The party and their supplies were torn to peices by the undead surrounding the town and , in reverence to his friend he picked up his halbered and "It" (now called Gurdenen) became his weapon of choice. Lost for months in the surrounding woods he whent into survival mode. Thus his ranger level. He stalked around making progress only at night, and in Gurdenen's name tearing any undead he found to shreads with his fallen comerades weapon. Thus his favored enemy.
I always want my charaters to be cool concepts and powerful as well. Because a cool concept stops being cool (for me) when it can't accomplish all the great things that It's coolness suggests.
I assume that this is a clear cut example of power gaming but I haven't been playing for that long and my hometown is so small that I don't know of any D&D groups outside of my own small pack of friends. (plus I haven't known about any D&D message boards until a week or two ago so I'm trying to get a grasp on all the slang)
I won't get my feelings hurt so don't worry about holding back what you really think, but as I originally asked am I a munchkin?
First get the following feats: Weapon Focus: Halberd; Weapon Specialization: Halberd; & Power Attack. Always max your Strength Score when you get an ability bonus. Buy lots of Divine Favour potions and for god's sake (whichever one, I don't care) get a +5 Silver Undead Bane Halberd.
Then you'll be a Munchkin.
Cheers,
C.
I don't think so.
It seems to me that you first thought of a cool concept: combat-centric rogue, and then worked with it. You found stuff to make it work, and made a story for it.
I think one of the central symtpoms of munchkinry is ONLY making a character to be powerful. I'd say that starting with a concept, and then working it out, is common. Making a guy good is not munchkinry, either. Now, if you had scoured every d20 book to find a combinaiton of feats to make your guy able to instant kill everyone, that's munchkinry.
I also think that munchkinry requires DM help- easy monsters, fast experience and too much treasure.
First get the following feats: Weapon Focus: Halberd; Weapon Specialization: Halberd; & Power Attack. Always max your Strength Score when you get an ability bonus. Buy lots of Divine Favour potions and for god's sake (whichever one, I don't care) get a +5 Silver Undead Bane Halberd.
Then you'll be a Munchkin.
Cheers,
C.
I don'thave specialization or foucus but I want to take power attack, and though I don't see me buying those potions I would probably ask if I could keep them should they show up in treasure. If I could get a hold of a powerful weapon that decimated My favored enemy I would jump at the chance.
Although A: My character would never Give up Using "Gundrenen" because It has a deep value to him so IT would have to be enchanted up to that and B: If it had to come strictly out of my money I would prefer it Be spent on Ability boosting Items, Skill boosting Items, And wondreous items with strange effects to give my character more options in a fight Ex: Bags of tricks, Immovable Rods, Animated ropes and the like
I agree with Luke; having an awesome and sometimes unusual concept with some sort of history generally means you care about stuff other than min/maxing. Therefore, you are not a munchkin.
Scanning...
Nope... No munchkins here. Just good players!
Ultradan
Great character background, cool build, lots of flavor. No munchkinry going on that I can see. In fact, going with Ranger because of the character background almost sends you in the opposite direction from munchkin, because the ranger's 2nd level benefits of Combat Style (Archery or Two-Weapon Fighting) only really help you out if you plan on taking the Spinning Halberd combat style feat from Complete Warrior. If that's the case, then you're still designing a character around a story and a history rather than always taking the power/optimization route. Kudos to you... great character in the making!
Alright guys thanks
I think I understand a little better.
Munchkin: A player that seeks to bend all the rules of the game to great personal advantage without any explaination of why such a person would have come to accumulate such a strange roster of abilities. Furthermore munchkins are often catagorized by their lack of involvement or attention in general to any campaign details outside of combat. Symptoms of a munchin include a desire to take the limelight or credit for any party victory, disdain for interacting with NPC's even those that are obviosly friendly and likeminded unless said NPC's are offering a material reward, changing alignment unjustly to gain power (EX a lawful good fighter seeking to contract wearwolf lycanthropy), and general selfishness.
Now I understand that "munckin" is a derogatory word whereas "powergammer" (which I hink I am unless I'm wrong there too) Is meerly a classification of what a player enjoys most about the game
Thanks
If you are only going to use the one weapon, you may want to talk to your DM about making it a weapon of Legacy or an Ancestial(sp?) Weapon. That way you don't need to give up your concept and can continue to be useful as you progress in levels.
Did that sound to munchkiny? :)
Munchkin: A player that seeks to bend all the rules of the game to great personal advantage without any explaination of why such a person would have come to accumulate such a strange roster of abilities. Furthermore munchkins are often catagorized by their lack of involvement or attention in general to any campaign details outside of combat. Symptoms of a munchin include a desire to take the limelight or credit for any party victory, disdain for interacting with NPC's even those that are obviosly friendly and likeminded unless said NPC's are offering a material reward, changing alignment unjustly to gain power (EX a lawful good fighter seeking to contract wearwolf lycanthropy), and general selfishness.
... Side effects include vicious DMs, unexplicable character death, and high levels of boredom. Munchkinry is not right for everyone. Ask your cleric if munchinry is right for you, and get your +5 vorpal keen flaming busrt everything bane pigsticker of why-does-this-exist-in-the-game-anyway at first level today!
The fun thing about munchkins from a DM's perspective is that all that specialization invariably leaves an exploitable weakness somewhere. I admit to a certain level of evil glee when a player creates this opportunity for me (O.K. battlemaster, make a Will Save - tee hee). To quote the famous aphorism: "the bigger they are, the harder they fall".
So, Ms. Golem, take heart; munchkinry does not happen in isolation. If you were succumbing to the condition (and I hope you can tell by the sarcasm of my former response and the general opinion of posters that you are not) you would only stay there through the culpability of your DM (and Saern doesn't sound like the type) in my opinion.
Happy Gaming!
Cheers,
C.
Alright guys thanks
I think I understand a little better.
Munchkin: A player that seeks to bend all the rules of the game to great personal advantage without any explaination of why such a person would have come to accumulate such a strange roster of abilities...Now I understand that "munckin" is a derogatory word whereas "powergammer" (which I hink I am unless I'm wrong there too) Is meerly a classification of what a player enjoys most about the game
Thanks
I've heard many definitions of "power gamer." My personal reference is that this person is very experienced at whatever game they prefer and is without negative connotation.
However, in most forums, power-gamers are as follows:
Power gamer - A power gamer is someone who primarily plays computer games that place particularly high demands on the hardware, requiring the latest graphics card and a fast processor. Commercially sold systems may be specifically advertised as being for "power gamers", as opposed to the cheaper and more common systems used in office computing. Typically, power gamers regularly upgrade their machines to include the latest hardware, in expectance of more demanding games and to get even better performance out of existing ones.
Powergaming - Powergaming is a particular way of playing role-playing games in which the emphasis lies on developing a player character that is as powerful as possible. This often involves an expert knowledge of the rules of the game, even (or especially) for exceptional or unlikely circumstances, and knowing how to apply the rules to get maximal results with minimal penalties (often referred to as min-maxing).
Sometimes an active abuse of the rules is implied, when rules that are expected or intended to model a realistic game world (according to some well-understood definition of "realism") are applied in ways that are manifestly at odds with those expectations. For example, a Dungeons & Dragons sorceror might take a single level of the paladin class for the attractive bonuses that come with this, even when paladins are traditionally seen as being devoted to their lifestyle, and the profession is not something you could train in briefly.
It is important to note that powergaming, in this sense, almost never implies active cheating or circumvention of the rules, merely using them in ways that are technically legal but frowned upon by those who consider the intent of the game more important than its exact implementation.
The term is often used disparagingly, implying that such players have little to no interest in other aspects a role-playing game may have, like cooperative problem solving or social interaction, and that their focus on their own character (to the point of ignoring anything that is not an opportunity for showing off their character's exceptional skills) makes the game less fun for other players.
As an attitude, it is often associated with adolescent males and the desire to be the "best" player in some clear, quantifiable sense.
In many cases the games themselves, especially computer role-playing games, have evolved in ways that make powergaming an easier or more satisfying way of playing than others. Many CRPGs were and are written for single players only, and have combat as their primary focus. Additionally, the automation of the rules and the possibility of using savegames encourages players to experimentally establish the "best" way to play. Multi-player CRPGs are not exempt from this development: Neverwinter Nights is one example of a CRPG that permits players to create many different class combinations that are seen as overly powerful and inconsistent with earlier versions of Dungeons & Dragons, while the online CRPG EverQuest is often seen as encouraging powergaming by emphasizing repetitive quests with little interaction as the primary means of character development.
The term is not exclusively negative, however. Many powergamers often style themselves as such, taking pride in their abilities, with some pointing out that "powergaming" as an optimization problem does not exclude enjoying the game in other ways. Powergaming is simply seen as one aspect of the game, to be mastered like any other. Others take the term as implying only the expert knowledge of the rules, and the ability to create a character that develops completely according to one's wishes. Such a character is not necessarily "maximal" in any sense, and may even be played more realistically than a character whose abilities and limitations are not as clearly understood.
On MUD and MUCK systems that typically emphasize social interaction over role-playing, a powergamer is a player who tries to force others, by his actions, to participate in role-playing they don't want to engage in. For instance, a player who unilaterally describes his character as doing something with (or to) another character that would usually require the other to play along—such as having a fight or a sexual encounter—is considered to be powergaming. Powergaming in this sense is regarded as bad style at best, or abusive at worst.
Related to powergaming is "godmoding", which happens mostly in roleplay-centric games (that is to say statless systems like the MUCK and MUSH). A godmoder will play their character as at once invincible (that is, any attacks launched against it will miss, or be blocked, or if they do strike, the character recovers immediately) as well as possessing ultimate, unblockable and unavoidable powers. The term comes from the god mode cheats in computer games such as Doom and Quake.
Reference: http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Powergaming
Stillfoxx
"Live or die, you decide..."
I got a munchcin player. He duel Weilds, is a dark elf, has a permanent haste, "borrows" money to enchant his all ready tough weapons, forced the wizard to make him a +6 belt of strength, and wants to be a vampire.
Solution: I booted him
Sexi Golem,
I don't think you are a munchkin or a powergamer (both terms of which IMO hold negative connotations). If fact, I think you probably lean a bit in the opposite direction (something, again, I personally find is a compliment). You have a solid character concept and backstory with abilities and equipment completely appropriate to such. In fact you would resist accepting items/abilities that conflict with your character concept. I consider that excellent game play and diametrically opposed to munchinism or powergaming. As a powergamer you would toss out your halaberd the instant a more powerful weapon presented itself, as a munchkin you already would've poured over all available sources before choosing the "best" weapon to begin with. I can imagine all kinds of abuses perpetrated by your character if you as a player truly did belong in either of these catagories.
I was fairly impressed by your description of your player/character choices, especially in the light of your admission of relative inexperience.
I guard my group against munchins and powergamers with fierce vigilance and I would have no problem with someone like you in my group. Stop worrying and enjoy your character - happy gaming!
Am I right in assuming (dangerous word, assuming) that many, if not most, munchkins & powergamers come from a table-top wargame background? Most of us more experienced gamers have tried many different systems during our gaming 'careers' and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of them have tried a miniatures game once or twice. IMO, I think that a game like Warhammer 40K promotes munchkinism. Sure, a characterful army is great and all, but what you're *really* looking for is the right combination of wargear and support troops to make your Terminator assault squad w/lightning claws into an irresistable force. The guys that I table-top game with often exhibit strong munchkin/powergamer tendencies. Thoughts, anyone?
While I'm sure you're right to a certain extent, the worst powergamers in my group are the three people who have "never" played a miniatures or wargame. A friend of mine who is the most avid wargamer I know is also the best role-player I know, so I'm not sure about your theory.
While I'm sure you're right to a certain extent, the worst powergamers in my group are the three people who have "never" played a miniatures or wargame. A friend of mine who is the most avid wargamer I know is also the best role-player I know, so I'm not sure about your theory.
Hmmm. This bears further research. I guess we'll see what turns up if I get any other replies.
At least in my experience, the people who are more avid gamers in general tend to play the game the way it is intended to be played. These gamers are and were among the finest, most intelligent gaming people that I have ever met, because they could flawlessly transition from Warhammer to D&D, to Star Trek: the RPG, to Star Fleet Battles.
I try hard to not let my real life experiences and historical knowledge impede on my D&D character when I play. I try to play the character based on the knowledge that I think the character would reasonably have, but I sometimes fail and find myself powergaming as well....maybe there's a 12-step program somewhere, LOL!
I think there's a "gaming maturity" involved here that is not necessarily tied to other maturity. Once you've played enough games, of various types--RPG's, tabletop, miniatures, CCG's, computer, whatever--you find that you can get "gaming satisfaction" in all of these games and the fact that in RPG's such "satisfaction" isn't necessarily tied to "total victory" may be a refreshing change for wargamers--at least many of the ones that I've met over the decades.
Am I right in assuming (dangerous word, assuming) that many, if not most, munchkins & powergamers come from a table-top wargame background? Most of us more experienced gamers have tried many different systems during our gaming 'careers' and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of them have tried a miniatures game once or twice. IMO, I think that a game like Warhammer 40K promotes munchkinism. Sure, a characterful army is great and all, but what you're *really* looking for is the right combination of wargear and support troops to make your Terminator assault squad w/lightning claws into an irresistable force. The guys that I table-top game with often exhibit strong munchkin/powergamer tendencies. Thoughts, anyone?
I know all don't have such a background as I have DMed for munchkins before and known that they don't care for tabletop gaming or wargaming. That said I'm an avid wargamer and the hobby promotes competitiveness - though in many cases you'd face the same kind of a background if you have a master Chess or Go player sitting at your table or, come to think of it - if you have a professional athlete.
Now I get it! I never knew what a munchkin was untill I read this thread. No one wants to roleplay a character that can not kill anything. But to just try and build a perfect character is really kinda lame. Those players NEVER survive in my campaign also I NEVER invite them back.
Munchkins I believe can happen to the best DM's, if the players are given enought room to experiment. The player is more the problem than the character. A Munchkin is the player who spends hours looking for small oversights and loopholes in the rules, or side effects to stacking certain equipments, that when a little logic is applied doesn't make sense. It has to do with following the spirit of the rules as opposed to the letter of the rules.
Sadly I have to disagree with everyone here when they say you are not a munchkin. Not because of the content of this post, but because of the content of you post titled :Loopholes.
This is Munchkin behavior.
A good Dm will crack down on this type of behavior, but that requires a Dm who is flexible with the rules and sees them as a set of guidelines as opposed to stone tablets brought down from the mountain tops.
Sadly I have to disagree with everyone here when they say you are not a munchkin. Not because of the content of this post, but because of the content of you post titled :Loopholes.
This is Munchkin behavior.
A good Dm will crack down on this type of behavior, but that requires a Dm who is flexible with the rules and sees them as a set of guidelines as opposed to stone tablets brought down from the mountain tops.
I see your point and agree but as I said in "Loopholes" i would never allow any of these to be used in my campaigns and (maybe I did not make this clear) I would never have one of my characters try to use them. I constantly play Wizards and Yes I do comb through spell lists trying to find obscure and powerful spell combos to maximize my characters abilities or too give one Of my NPC spellcasters an ace up their sleeve to dish out on the party
For example I cast a leathal cloud effect (or summon swarm) Acid fog, cloud kill, ect and then if any creatures are still caught in the cloud on my next turn I use ottolukes reselient sphere to trap the creature inside with the deadly agent, creating a gas chamber that (if it works) is extreamly lethal.
If it is considered munckinism then so be it. But I feel that a highly intellegent character (wizards) would be devising the same tricks.
Am I right in assuming (dangerous word, assuming) that many, if not most, munchkins & powergamers come from a table-top wargame background? Most of us more experienced gamers have tried many different systems during our gaming 'careers' and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of them have tried a miniatures game once or twice. The guys that I table-top game with often exhibit strong munchkin/powergamer tendencies. Thoughts, anyone?
I would have to disagree, though I think tabletop war games do promote munchkinism or munchkinnery, I think it just boils down to the person.
My friends and I play warhammer fantasy and we will call each other on it if we think an army is "cheesy". We always try to get a good balance of advance troops, support and the main volley of troops as well as magic. Hey we even have back stories for our generals and their armies. And when it comes to actual combat for some reason we actually roleplay the characters involved with different voices and actions.Again I think it is just the person who is playing that determines whether or not they are going to be munchkin.
But one thing I will say, I think that Computer RPGs promote it. I have read some posts on how to make the best party for a certain game. I will give them credit that those parties are probably the best for that game but when it comes to roleplaying reality, as odd as that may sound it just couldn't happen, but at least some of those things tell you that up front. Well I have ranted for far too long
Later
One of our Battletech players was a munchkin.
He once made a Mech (using the rules) that was so light and so fast that it could NEVER be hit. He had NO armor, no Jump Jets, no extra Heat Sinks and only a medium lazer as a weapon and still won the game. He called it the Blurr.
We banned that infernal machine from our games forever!
Ultradan
As a DM who played with a group of nothing but Munchkins and the like for nearly 5 years I just like to say I know a munchkin when I see them. And you my friend are not a munchkin. I have a new game group now. All noobies to D&D and paper RPGs in general and there great. Its like a breath of fresh air to have a group that actualy particapats with the story and ask questions about the setting and stuff. Anyway not the point of this thread. My point is your a Role Player and should be proud of yourself for that. Also if your playing a ranger with a halberd like a previous poster said maybe forge it into a legacy weapon. Also if your looking for different ranger combat styles try checking out class acts in dragon #326 for options there.