What I mean is, do you award xp at the end of a scenario? When the characters reach a safe haven? Or maybe after every encounter, the same way a computer game does.
What about levelling? Do you have the characters train as suggested in the core books, or do you just let them go "ding!" (again like a computer game) and level them up based on the consolidation of real-life experiences they have faced.
The reason I ask is because when playing a particular scenario, such as Whispering Cairn, there is a certain flow to the game, which if interrupted, may stifle the game and makes the "computer game style" xp awarding system look attractive.
And what is a player supposed to say when earning enough xp to level during one of these games if they have to train? "Okay, lads. You wait here for a few days. I'm off to try a couple of things. I'll be back soon, bigger and badder!"
Thoughts?
What I mean is, do you award xp at the end of a scenario? When the characters reach a safe haven? Or maybe after every encounter, the same way a computer game does.
What about levelling? Do you have the characters train as suggested in the core books, or do you just let them go "ding!" (again like a computer game) and level them up based on the consolidation of real-life experiences they have faced.
The reason I ask is because when playing a particular scenario, such as Whispering Cairn, there is a certain flow to the game, which if interrupted, may stifle the game and makes the "computer game style" xp awarding system look attractive.
And what is a player supposed to say when earning enough xp to level during one of these games if they have to train? "Okay, lads. You wait here for a few days. I'm off to try a couple of things. I'll be back soon, bigger and badder!"
Thoughts?
I allow players to gain their hit points, base attack bonus, base saves and generally increase abilities they already have, or that they gain by instinct or natural talent.
Entirely new skills, new levels of spells, and the like I ask them to hold off on until there is a break for them to actually train.
I have been known to waive this in adventures that expect the characters to have achieved new levels due to progress made during that adventure, and assume heightened abilities for the BBEG.
- Ashavan
I've shared my personal style on a different thread but I'll repeat it here because ... well, I feel like it. ;-)
I award xps at the end of each *gaming session* (as we're polishing off the last of the chips and players are collecting their belongings to go home). This is a great way to do it, IMO, because it doesn't interfere with actual game play and players have a chance to research and puzzle over what items and abilities they want their character to get if they "level up" on their own (again, without interfering with actual game time). It also prevents meta-gaming moments like "gee, I only need a dozen more xps to go up a level. My character presses on, despite being 1 hp and badly outmatched in this upcoming battle".
I use a rather complex system of awarding xps so no two players ever receive the same amount of xps at the end of a session. Even so, all or most of the players seem to level up at the same time (I'd guess this is the case about 95% of the time). Additional hit points and other "basic" level bonuses are applied in the "ding" style at the end of the session but training is required to gain any new level-based skills, feats, spells, etc (unless there is some logical argument to how the character suddenly and spontaneaously could gain such knowledge or ability). Characters must train one week per level. This training is always "off-camera" and game calendar time just *passes*. On the rare occassion that there is an "odd man out" whose character did not gain a level, the player decides whether he wishes to role-play his character for his solo weeks or allow them to pass "off-camera" at the same time as everyone else's training period. The people I game with almost always choose to role-play this time. While leveling players are adjusting their character sheets and flipping through the resource books reading up on their new "goodies", the non-leveled player has a chance to go off on his own and decide what his character is going to do to wile away the hours (rogues often go on a gambling or crime spree; druids and rangers often go "camping"; clerics hold services at the local church - it's "revival time" again! etc). The down time becomes "spotlight" time when the player gets a chance to really develop the individual aspects of his character; especially the class-related talents, as mentioned above. Sometimes I think the players even get a little jealous of the occassional player left behind during training times.
The down side to this whole system, of course, is that it takes a loong time (in game terms and sometimes real time) for players to complete a module if the xps are going to cause their character to level up more than once during a module. Any time limits or sense of urgency has to be ajudicated carefully. When all else fails, if the particular scenario demands it, I will allow PCs to forego training and just "ding" their level. Of course, this would still only happen at the end of the gaming session (never in the middle of game play).
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I usually give out xp at the end of each session. The end of each encounter is too much work. If the party is really close to leveling, I'll usually top them off. Otherwise, I find that we start the next session, have an encounter, and then everyone wants to level, rest, and recover.
I've toyed around with training and other systems, but have found that they are too big an interruption in the flow of the game. I suppose one option would be to award xp after each 'chunk' of an adventure. With Whispering Cairn, you could give out xp after the PC's encounter Allister Land, after they defeat Kullen, and then after they defeat Filge. I think the chunking idea works better after 1st level because the marginal increase in power from 1st to 2nd level is so significant, you want to give it out earlier rather than later.
Sebastian
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Entirely new skills, new levels of spells, and the like I ask them to hold off on until there is a break for them to actually train.
Doesn't that system tend to be overly burdensome on spellcasters? Their going to have to go take a break every single level - other classes might get away with only having to take a break when they get a feat.
Sebastian
I wrote a whole long answer to this once and it disappeared somewhere.
Here's my second try...
I already commented on my personal system on a different thread but I will go ahead and repeat it on this one.
I award xps at the end of each gaming session (when everyone is done playing for the night and getting ready to go home). This has always worked well for us because it prevents meta-gaming ("I only have a dozen xps to go til the next level, so even though I only have 1 hp, I'll press on to the next battle") and allows players time between gaming sessions (usually a week or more) to thoroughly research what items and abilities they want their characters to gain if/when they level up.
I have a pretty complex system of awarding individual xps so no two characters ever receive the exact same amount following any given session, but even so, PCs almost always level up at the same time. Any hit points or basic level advancements are awarded immediately ("ding") but like others have said - all new feats, spells, etc require training (unless the player has a logical argument on how his character received such knowledge or ability spontaneaously). I require one week of training per level and this is handled "off-camera". On the rare occassion that one player's character did NOT level up at the same time, the player can choose to spend those game weeks off-camera or role-play his character's actions during this time. My players almost always choose to role-play the time and get great enjoyment from the experience. While the leveling players are adjusting their character sheets and flipping through the books to fully investigate their new powers, the "odd man out" spends time doing solo work - often the rogue goes gambling or on a crime spree, the druids or rangers go "camping", the cleric holds revival services at the local church, any character with a crafting skill can construct some object, etc. So down time becomes "spotlight" time, when a PC has a chance to role-play some of his class-specific traits.
The down side to this system, as Sebastian pointed out, is that it does slow the plot flow (though it never interferes with actual game play - which is a huge upside!). Months of game time can pass within a module so any sense of urgency needs to be ajudicated carefully. Still, even with the AoW AP, this is rarely a big deal. Under special and rare circumstances, of course, I may allow a "ding" level advancement sans training at the end of the session; but I would never allow it during actual game play.
Entirely new skills, new levels of spells, and the like I ask them to hold off on until there is a break for them to actually train.
Doesn't that system tend to be overly burdensome on spellcasters? Their going to have to go take a break every single level - other classes might get away with only having to take a break when they get a feat.
Sebastian
Not really - fighters get an awful lot of feats, sorcerers are spontaneous casters - and even wizards only gain a new spell level at about every other level. Note that the wizard would get the benefit of the additional spell slots of spell levels he/she already knows.
- Ashavan
I use the alternate Xp system found in the Unearthed Arcana with this method: 75% of xp earned is distributed evenly at the moment the battle is over, and the remaining 25% goes into a pool wich is distributed by shares at the end of the game. The players gain shares by 1) Being present, 2) Good Roleplaying and 3) Good ideas/problem solving.
I also use the 'ding' system (as a computer game). When the players have enough experience, the go up a level on the spot. Ability, skill and hit points increase, the character gets his new feats and new spells (although the spellcaster must memorize them before being able to use them).
I explain this by saying that the characters are training and learning new spells every chance they get (by the campfire, while resting, etc...) but we just don't mention it... Like we don't mention the characters going to the potty.
Ultradan
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Not really - fighters get an awful lot of feats, sorcerers are spontaneous casters - and even wizards only gain a new spell level at about every other level. Note that the wizard would get the benefit of the additional spell slots of spell levels he/she already knows.- Ashavan
Ah. Thanks. I was thinking you were requiring training for every spell level meaning 'every time you gain a caster level' not 'every time you gain a new level of spells you can cast'.
Sebastian
Okay. My computer is in the twilight zone! Sorry about the double post. Just ignore the second one (or both ;-) ).
What I mean is, do you award xp at the end of a scenario? When the characters reach a safe haven? Or maybe after every encounter, the same way a computer game does.
What about levelling? Do you have the characters train as suggested in the core books, or do you just let them go "ding!" (again like a computer game) and level them up based on the consolidation of real-life experiences they have faced.
The reason I ask is because when playing a particular scenario, such as Whispering Cairn, there is a certain flow to the game, which if interrupted, may stifle the game and makes the "computer game style" xp awarding system look attractive.
And what is a player supposed to say when earning enough xp to level during one of these games if they have to train? "Okay, lads. You wait here for a few days. I'm off to try a couple of things. I'll be back soon, bigger and badder!"
Thoughts?
I think with the Age of Worms you should probably try and do the computer leveling system. Everything just flows rapidly from the last act in this. It does of course mean that your players are going to go for 1st level nobodies to 20th level legendary hero's in 8 months to a year or something.
I use a combination of the "ding" style and of training. When a character levels up I make them decide which new skills and feats they want for the next level. This gives them the chance to have their characters study the new feat/skill until they reach the next level and can use it effectively. I normally reward XP at the end of a session, but for good roleplaying, or something of the such, I will give out XP then. My players have never complained about this, and our parties are usually within one to two levels of each other, so there are no big gaps to bridge.
A bit from my Hoarde
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Our peer from Italy (Giuseppe) had asked for details of my tweaked XP system for 3.xE D&D.
I award XP based on a gaming session (typically 4 hours every Tuesday evening). Using my system, after nine sessions of gaming the wizard has 3,081 XP, the cleric has 3,221 XP, the soulknife has 3,168 XP, and the rogue has 3,240 XP. Everyone leveled via the "ding" method. It happened that the PCs had returned to Diamond Lake which allowed for some of the metagaming involved with additional spell levels to occur more logically. I require "official" training to occur every three levels so the PCs will not "ding" for fourth level until a time that they have committed time and gold to receive training. Because of the accelerated plot of the Age of Worms I'm likely to have the "training" equate to a week of down time where the PCs can also do some Crafting and Scribe Scrolling as well (game time permitting of course). The concept of a group of PCs going from 1st to 20th in the scope of a calendar year is mind-boggling, but this is an "epic" scenario in the sense of how it could affect the campaign world. It's no different in what happened to the Heroes of the Lance. Imagine what Tanis' level would be if the original Dragonlance campaign had used 3.xE mechanics...
What I mean is, do you award xp at the end of a scenario? When the characters reach a safe haven? Or maybe after every encounter, the same way a computer game does.
Technically, I do it after every encounter, though for practical purposes it's usually just at the end of every gaming session. (That is, unless the characters are close to leveling, it doesn't matter "when" they acquire the XP.)
I've usually awarded XP at the end of a story arc - anywhere between two to four sessions.
I have actually adopted a variant of the Star Wars XP system.
The problem with typical xp is sometimes gaging how hard a roleplaying encounter was, or dealing with a fight where the best option is actually retreating. It should be more off of the time invested and completion.
So I do this. If the game has under 4 hours of actual gaming, the base is 1000. 4-6, 3000. 6 or more, 5000. You multiply that by the average party level and that is what each one receives.
There is a catch to my system. I grade on roleplaying and completion of goals, as well. If there was poor roleplaying by a player, I multiply his xp by 1/2. Average roleplaying is x1. Good roleplaying is x1.5. I also usually have a secret ballot for best RPer, and that person gets a 5% bonus.
If they completed none of the goals of the mission or what they were needing to do, there is x.5 xp. Completed most, x.75. All, x1. Above and beyond is x1.25.
It's a little complicated, but in the end everyone is rewarded for time, effort and success, and there is less haggling over the xp for non-combat encounters.
Since the start of 3rd Ed. I have generally been awarding XP at the end of the adventuring day.
Chracters who gain enough XP to go up a level are allowed to do so if they have had a sufficient nights rest (much like a cleric, wizard, etc. needs to regain spells). I give the full benifits of the new level as I assume the characters have had a chance to reflect and discuss and research a little upon the days activities.
This works well for adventures where chracters need to go up mid adventure, but I don't want to disrupt the flow of play with lengthy training.
Then I assume at the end of the adventure the characters take a week or so building up their knowledge base for their next level. In some campaigns I get them to pick their skills, feats, spells ahead of time to add to the believability (plus it makes leveling mid-session a lot faster).
I use the XP system right from the 3.5 DMG (though I am think of moving to the one in the UA) with a system of bonuses based on roleplaying.