As mentioned in the slightly lengthy title, I think that we at the Dragon boards need a single thread to tell the Paizo folks about ways to improve the magazine or things they are doing right instead of just having multiple little threads scattered over numerous boards. Basically, this will (hopefully) be a one-stop resource for us to give the people who actually decide what to be in the magazine our ideas. So, happy posting, and to a better Dragon!
WaterdhavianFlapjack
As mentioned in the slightly lengthy title, I think that we at the Dragon boards need a single thread to tell the Paizo folks about ways to improve the magazine or things they are doing right instead of just having multiple little threads scattered over numerous boards. Basically, this will (hopefully) be a one-stop resource for us to give the people who actually decide what to be in the magazine our ideas. So, happy posting, and to a better Dragon!
WaterdhavianFlapjack
Well, most of my suggestions for improving the mag's content and format really boil-down to "emulate Mohan and Moore slavishly", so I'll just post that:
EMULATE MOHAN AND MOORE SLAVISHLY
There you go! :)
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A tighter focus for each issue, without providing too much of any single campaign setting. Things that are setting specific should provide utility to people who do not use that campaign setting as well.
Emphasize content for the game. There are literally thousands of free resources that can provide "game material" with a little work, from fiction to architects drawings of medieval cathedrals. So, save me the trouble. If you present something, make sure I can use some part of it in my game, whether it is a new item, new feat, new spell, location, NPC etc. I notice the front page of Dragon has changed - it says the magazine is for the D&D enthusiast.
Pardon the language, but f@!% that shit.
Keep the emphasis on providing materials that are directly applicable to the game.
A tighter focus for each issue, without providing too much of any single campaign setting. Things that are setting specific should provide utility to people who do not use that campaign setting as well.
Emphasize content for the game. There are literally thousands of free resources that can provide "game material" with a little work, from fiction to architects drawings of medieval cathedrals. So, save me the trouble. If you present something, make sure I can use some part of it in my game, whether it is a new item, new feat, new spell, location, NPC etc. I notice the front page of Dragon has changed - it says the magazine is for the D&D enthusiast.
Pardon the language, but f~@& that s*%#.
Keep the emphasis on providing materials that are directly applicable to the game.
I agree completly. And, the add my own two copper pieces, I would also suggest something which has been mentioned many times before; have fewer Class Acts articles in every issue, with each class covered in that issue getting multiple pages, say 2 or 3. So, for example, instead of having 1 class act for each class, you could focus on about 3-6 classes per issue, giving more useful content for each.
And, Paizo folks, could you provide some feedback, like what you think is feasible and what is not, why you aren't doing some of the things mentioned here, etc?? I think it would really help.
Thanks, guys!
WaterdhavianFlapjack
The articles that jump out at my mind of late are such:
Not for the Living
All the Demonicon articles
The Cults of the Dragon Below
Chilled to the Bone
Domains for Sinners (not sure of the title, that magazine is back at my other place)
The first three have big things in common. They all are an intersting read in and of themselves. I could read them for entertainment's sake without ever using them in my setting. That's a key feature for articles. I only use a small percentage of the articles. But I *read* them all.
If I as a DM (or as a paticulairly inventive player) did decide to use them (which I have in two out of three cases), they were well layed out, with easy hooks to use, for memeorable gameplay. All of these allow for encounters that have much more depth than simple wandering monsters or dungeons. They are unifying hooks with multiple layers and interesting twists. They have something that the D&D line lacks for the most part these days: motiviation for vilians. There are pages and pages on how to motivate PCs. What makes the villain want to slaughter babies? Much harder to come up with. The ecologies, now that they're improving, are also a step in this direction.
Which brings me to my third point: Dragon does evil GOOD. This relates to the other two articles. There's just a good sense of dripping evil, not just strong, but interesting.
Finally, I have to say I love being able to use monsters from Dragon (espeically since my PCs have memorized much of the three MMs). However, far too many of the recent monster articles have clutched to tightly to a specific theme. Monsters of arabia is interesting, but just a little too well fit to the theme. No flying monkeys will pester my PCs, unless we decide to have an april 1st session. Monsters grouped by environment, or perhaps purose (such as the quori article "living nightmares" in the same issue as chilled to the bone) are much more useful. My pcs immediatly come to wakeful attention when they find themselves in mist, for fear that a steaming soldier is lurking within.
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I also liked the article with domains based upon the seven deadly sins. Maybe Dragon to do a similar article on the seven contrary virtues: Diligence, Humility, Kindness, Abstinence, Chastity, Patience, and Generosity. Or they could try the seven cardinal virtues: Prudence, Fortitude, Justice, Temperance, Faith, Hope, and Love. Or maybe they could do both. I certainly wouldn't complain.
In additon, I agree with practically everyone else that the Demonomicon articles have been absolutley great. I would also like to see more Novel Approach articles, but on more well-known books such as Robert E. Howard's Conan stories, and maybe Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality books ( I would say his Xanth novels, but I never read any of those).
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Thanks for the feedback, all. I thought I'd sign on briefly and share some of my thinking on the suggestions posted to this thread. I appreciate that our readership is so invested in the magazine, and while that sometimes appears to make our jobs more difficult, the constant flow of feedback does help us to improve the magazines.
Many of the folks who now loudly proclaim how much they like Dungeon can probably recall a time, not too long ago, when the magazine seemed to have lost its way in the wilderness. Now I think most readers would agree that Dungeon is vastly improved, but this was not an overnight process.
I often compare changing a magazine's editorial mix to trying to turn the Titanic in the face of an oncoming iceberg. Sometimes the ship doesn't swerve quite as fast as you'd like.
In general, we work several months out on each magazine. I'm currently working on the thematic calendar for 2007, and am in discussions with authors for features and articles late in 2006. Part of taking the magazine forward involves taking some risks by introducing new features, trying out untested authors, and so forth. Sometimes (as in the case of the Demonomicon), this works. Other times (as in the case of many of the new departments that debuted in #323) it doesn't. The hope, as always, is to give new editorial ideas enough time to connect with readers, but the truth is that this does not always happen.
That said, I'd like to make some specific comments about some of the issues raised in this thread.
Emulating Moore and Mohan
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Yeah. Most readers will probably agree that the magazine was at its best under these two editors. A lot of enthusiasm probably comes from the fact that many of us came to the magazine when it was under these two worthies, and when the game was at the height of its first edition popularity. But a lot of it comes down to the fact that these guys knew what they were doing, and as such they were vastly influential over the magazine and over the game in general. It is definitely a goal to achieve the high standards set during those eras, and perhaps set new standards of our own. This is an ongoing process.
Class Acts
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When I came up with the idea for Class Acts and suggested it to Matt Sernett, I thought it wise to include a series of short articles that would be accessible to the casual D&D player who might only own the Player's Handbook, but who might be interested in new options he could try out with his character. At the same time, ideally, these articles would appeal to more advanced players.
It's my belief that Dragon often gets passed around the gaming table and read during slow moments in the campaign. One or two members of each campaign group probably subscribe or buy the magazine with some frequency, and they are likely to bring it to their regular game to use something for their character or just to show their friends. This is certainly my experience with the magazine, and so the "casual" player struck me as an obvious opportunity to grow the magazine's readership.
I still believe this to be true, but I'm no longer willing to spend 11 pages every issue testing out my theory. Starting with issue #339, Class Acts will shift to four two-page spreads, each focusing on one of the class groups featured in the "Complete" books. This will allow us to offer slightly more expansive ideas without relying on padding, and it will allow more room for other types of articles. Basically, I want the new Class Acts to be 100% good ideas and 0% spinning wheels. I'm eager to see how it works.
THEMES
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As I write this I should be working on putting Dragon #338 to bed. It's the December "magic" theme, and I think it is one of our best issues (if not our best) since the relaunch. I am convinced that strong themes are essential to the magazine's success, even if I did not always feel that way as a reader (I think the key is in having useful themes). Look for more conceptual tightness between articles in the future.
REGULAR FEATURES
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Issue #338 is also notable in that it debuts a new ongoing feature we're calling "Core Beliefs." The series will focus on the gods of the core pantheon in a similar fashion to the way the Demonomicon articles focus upon demon lords. Boccob is up first, and other gods will follow semi-regularly thereafter. We've also got the Demonomicon and Ed Greenwood's Cities of the Forgotten Realms. I think it's probably safe to assume that you'll see three of these every four months or so. I'm also talking to Keith Baker about setting up something semi-regular insofar as Eberron is concerned, although it will take us several months to funnel through the material we already have in-hand for that setting.
That's all for right now. I've got an editorial to write. Thanks for the feedback, everyone!
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
I'm also talking to Keith Baker about setting up something semi-regular insofar as Eberron is concerned
Glee!
I'm also excited to see the changes to the class acts.
I like the idea of publishing only the best of Class Acts. It's a great idea, and more freedom from formula will let it be used to its full potential.
Core Beliefs sounds great. I will say that one thing from the Demonicon that I hope doesn't migrate to Core Beliefs is stat blocks. Both the most gigantic and least interesting and useful thing about a D&D diety is its stat block. I also maintain some hope that the series will branch out to other Greyhawk dieties once the PHB ones are covered. Wastri, baby!
Erik's right that Class Acts takes up too much space now. I like the Ed Greenwood stuff too. And if you ever drop the comics I'm outta here!
That said I'd like to see some more author profiles. LE Modesitt's Recluse, Steven Brust's Dragera (Yes, I have that issue but updating is needed.) and so many other author's worlds would fit nicely into D&D campaigns. With so many useable ideas out there why not tap into them.(With permission of course.)
Keep up the great work.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I've been in contact with the Perfect Author about a series of articles on the classics of fantasy, somewhat akin to a mix between "Giants in the Earth" and "Novel Approach" mixed with James Jacobs's recent Lovecraft article, but he's been too busy finishing a book for the last year to commit. I haven't given up, yet, so it's definitely something I've been considering.
No stat blocks in Core Beliefs.
--Erik
The revised Class Acts and the upcoming Core Beliefs both sound great.
Thanks Erik.
Giddiness and GLEE!
Can't wait for the new stuff! I must say, I like "themed" issues because I can toss it in the "Bag of Doom" and not feel like I'm wasting space.
Bare in mind I'm a new reader of Dragon so its possible this has been covered to death in previous issues.
One thing as a fairly new dm I'd love is articles that go into depth on how to run some of the more complex themes within the game that comeup in a game.
For example Divination spells,My group is fast approaching the level Where our Wizard who is focusing on divination will start to get some good spells that will potentially reveal alot.We're currently playing the SCAP.
What i've love is some more detailed suggestions on how to handle the reveiling of info from clarivoyance,speak with dead,ect ect.
Something that explains how to approach each one, how they really differ in what information they provide, and some generic examples that can be used with some minor customizing within your game.
IF asking about a Who..heres some examples
IF asking about a Where heres some expamples
IF asking about a Why ect ect
Man, just another example of how Paizo entrenches themselves in a fixed format until the ancient departments have dug such a deep rut that the magazine stagnates, never to develop or change again despite the impassioned pleas of the readers (who are much more intelligent and creative than the magazine staff, of course).
Oh. Wait.
Great job, guys! Looks fabulous!
-Amber S.
I got a fever, and the only prescription is more Wormfood. :)
Not at all looking forward to "Core Beliefs". An article or two maybe, but a whole series? How long is this going to last? What about all of the Eberron & FR gamers out there, where's the religious love? Will we see any sidebars at all?
What can we look forward to in the ecology articles? I really like the last few and hope that future ones include more references to official D&D settings (Eberron, FR & Greyhawk).
Thanks, Erik! I think the changes you are going to happen will greatly improve the magazine, and I eagerly await #338 (and #339)!
Woooooooooo!
WaterdhavianFlapjack
Bare in mind I'm a new reader of Dragon so its possible this has been covered to death in previous issues.
One thing as a fairly new dm I'd love is articles that go into depth on how to run some of the more complex themes within the game that comeup in a game.For example Divination spells,My group is fast approaching the level Where our Wizard who is focusing on divination will start to get some good spells that will potentially reveal alot.We're currently playing the SCAP.
What i've love is some more detailed suggestions on how to handle the reveiling of info from clarivoyance,speak with dead,ect ect.
Something that explains how to approach each one, how they really differ in what information they provide, and some generic examples that can be used with some minor customizing within your game.
IF asking about a Who..heres some examples
IF asking about a Where heres some expamples
IF asking about a Why ect ect
There is an article in #316, the Spies issue, which dealt with how to effectively deal with divinations and not let them ruin the campaign. I don't think they had examples, but it was (and is) a good article nevertheless. (a good issue, too)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
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Bare in mind I'm a new reader of Dragon so its possible this has been covered to death in previous issues.
One thing as a fairly new dm I'd love is articles that go into depth on how to run some of the more complex themes within the game that comeup in a game.For example Divination spells,My group is fast approaching the level Where our Wizard who is focusing on divination will start to get some good spells that will potentially reveal alot.We're currently playing the SCAP.
What i've love is some more detailed suggestions on how to handle the reveiling of info from clarivoyance,speak with dead,ect ect.
Something that explains how to approach each one, how they really differ in what information they provide, and some generic examples that can be used with some minor customizing within your game.
IF asking about a Who..heres some examples
IF asking about a Where heres some expamples
IF asking about a Why ect ect
You may also want to check out the WotC D&D website. There is an article series on the site called Rules of the Game. They do multipart themes focusing on various aspects of the game. Currently it is about carrying stuff. Before that it was a two-parter on Enchantments. They've covered lots of other topices too, like constructs, mounts, grappling, and sneak attacks. I'm not sure if they ever did anything about divination spells, though.
I just wanted to mention that I got #337 day before yesterday and that was an excellent issue! I really liked the mind monster article. The mind-flayer dragon will send my players running away with high pitched shrieks!
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The most important thing is to make sure all info presented is balanced and always be aware of power inflation. Avoid repetition and reprinting info.
If you follow those rules than just about everything you publish should be useful, at least usable, by the readers, no matter the subject matter, setting or idea.
At the core: Write Good Rules.
the rest will follow.