Okay, I read the article on the Charlatan Prestige class in the latest issue of Dragon (#335), and I have to admit that when when I was doing my first initial skim through to see what was in the mag I thought "Hmm . . . a Con-Man prestige class, interesting."
But, when I went back and read through the Prestige Class in detail I was left asking myself one question, "Why would my character want to take levels in this prestige class?" What benefits would my character gain from this prestige class that a character from another class doesn't already have? What advantage is there?
So the Char has a high charisma based skills . . . any Rogue can do that. So the Char can realisticly convince people into thinking that they can cast actual spells . . . Wiz/Sor, and Cleric can cast the actual spells, no tricks involved. The Char can't even "cast" spells that are on-par with actual magic users of an equivalent level.
In a group setting, how does the Char contribute to the group? Walk in front of the opponents and scare them into submission because of their awesome (if not accurate) reputation? Do they "cast" healing spells on their comrades to let them stay in the fight longer?
As a DM, how would one use the Charlatan as an opponent? It seems that anyone with a high enough Sense Motive skill would be able to de-bunk the charlatan without too much effort. If Char's tend to avoid fighting then once the PC's realize that the Char is a fraud, the npc just slips away? doesn't sound like a very challenging villain
Now, the Prestige class was very will written, the presentation was great, and the fact it was a contest entry did impress me. The presentation of it was great. I'm just searching for a help in understanding how the application of such a prestige class would be beneficial to anyone. Anyone able to help shed some light on this?
The class seems quite intriguing for NPCs. Imagine your players unknowingly hiring a charlatan only to realize at the last moment that something was terribly wrong with this 'cleric's' healing powers. How about a 'wizard' who pretends to have phobias whenever called upon to do something remotely arcane, such as fear of heights when they ask him to fly up to top ledge in a cave and lower a rope?
As for why someone would bother... it strikes me that metaphysics in itself is mostly comprised of things people pretended to know about the unknowable so that someone would buy them lunch and they could avoid a hard day's work.
As for PCs:
Fact is, if you can be kept in a well appointed suite as the Baron's archmage, and can collect that kind of wage without ever really having the intelligence score, acumen, or study required... to some characters that might seem like a brilliant con. Imagine the adventures to be had just trying to avoid the revelation of fraudulence. I'd consider this class for an urban/court intrigue campaign.
Hey guys!
I haven't seen the article yet...I hate traveling...so I don't know what made it into the mag and what didn't, but I dug on the fact that a lot of the charlatan's abilities basically ignore spell resistance, and are more potent than just any old bluff because you can convince people in the know that they are wrong about something and your (totally fake) explanation is correct. Knowledge is power as they say. I agree if you don't have the bluff to back it up, you don't make a very good charlatan, but if you can out-do someone's sense motive, you can pretty much have your way with them, regardless of how powerful they are in game mechanics.
As for why play one...this PrC is based on an old character of mine I played as a commoner, with a really high Charisma. Of course, no one else in my group knew that. They all thought I was the Grand Leshumb!!! GREATEST SORCERER in SEVEN KINGDOMS! Needless to say, I had a blast. :-)
If your DM and fellow players are into the concept, you can be really useful as you influence/bully powerful people in the campaign world into fearing/respecting you.
Some of the higher level powers of the charlatan (again, I don't know if they made it in to the mag) gives them the power to counterspell powerful casters with nothing but some well executed flimflam.
But all in all, you have a point, it is not really a power player's character class, it is IMHO a lot of fun to play though. And really fun as an NPC class, as The Jade pointed out, the possibilities are limitless.
Okay, enough of me defending me'self. ;-)
It's a great opportunity for role-play, but it doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would be for you if you're looking for an advantage in terms of game mechanics.
Well, I never said it was a bad class . . . just one I couldn't get the right grasp of.
I guess the real problem I had with it is that for me, there's always going to be that one person who will figure out the sham. You can trick 1,001 people all you want, but when that one perceptive guy comes around, the glass house can come down pretty quick.
But, I figure I will try this PrC eventually. With this class, it's all a matter of perspective. I guess I just need to look at it from the correct angle.
Well, I never said it was a bad class . . . just one I couldn't get the right grasp of.
I guess the real problem I had with it is that for me, there's always going to be that one person who will figure out the sham. You can trick 1,001 people all you want, but when that one perceptive guy comes around, the glass house can come down pretty quick.
But, I figure I will try this PrC eventually. With this class, it's all a matter of perspective. I guess I just need to look at it from the correct angle.
You've got a really good point William. If you run into someone that sees through you it is a serious challenge. The fun thing is that even if they see through you, they still have to convince everyone else to do so. As a charlatan you have a lot at the ready to battle with that one perceptive guy when it comes to public opinion.
People saw through my charlatan PC sometimes, but my response was to sick all of my blindly loyal, believing followers on them and make em go bye bye.
Another fun element of if someone sees through you is trying to convince them they were wrong by staging some elaborate stunt to prove your magical prowess.
Suddenly "I can't really cast spells" becomes "I wouldn't waste my spells on someone I thought I could just trick...but if you insist on making me prove my power to you then...SO BE IT!!! (OMINOUS VOICE)" Then you get to stage a really cool stunt to make a believer out of em.
It helps when your fellow PCs help out by playing the part of people affected by your magic.
Another great way to play this class if you do decide to try it out is to meet with your DM ahead of time and do it secretly by not telling the other players. Even have the DM whip you up a fake character sheet and invent some excuse for allowing you to play an uber high level caster in their mid or low level game. The players will envy...and fear...your power, and probably not even suspect you are anything but what your character sheet says. Use metagame thinking to your advantage says I. :-)
When I played me old Grand Leshumb, I concocted all sorts of elaborate cues and note passing systems with my DM to keep my fellow players in the dark and usually manipulated them into doing the hard work (and hard fighting) while I was stopping larger (and very imaginary) threats elsewhere. I would even leave the room and have the DM join me for rounds of my combat against the "dragon" or "demon" or whatever (I was usually hiding in a tree). I would even pop my head in the room while the DM was handling the other players' combat with a quip like: "Yeah, Mike, I did 36 damage with that cone of cold." Or something like that.
Now if you don't feel like pulling the wool over on the other players eyes, then you can use them by letting them in on the scam and getting them to help you with every trick and staged stunt. That is definately fun too. I played a Bard character that did that alot. He posed as an incredible fighter and I would roll into town and have the other PCs pretend to attack me while I whooped up on them with pre-choreographed fighting sequences of unthinkable skill. Think Maverick, with Mel Gibson. Bad guys gave my rail thin, 5'2" bard a wide berth and we all got a good kick out of it.
Okay, I'll shut up already. :-)
I enjoyed the class, and thought it would be a hoot to play in a not-so-serious game.
Hey Nick, How about time year you win the side-trek contest and I'll win the prestige class contest. You know, just to change stuff up. :) The latest Dragon hasn't hit my local shop but from what I'm hearing and what I heard at Origins I have got use this class.
TTFN
G to the Three
Hey Nick, How about time year you win the side-trek contest and I'll win the prestige class contest. You know, just to change stuff up. :) The latest Dragon hasn't hit my local shop but from what I'm hearing and what I heard at Origins I have got use this class.
TTFN
G to the Three
Thanks GGG! I can't wait to see yo Side Trek masterpiece! I have been traveling all over and couldn't pick up a Dungeon...but I will at Gencon fo' sure! Now I gotta get back to work...
::Starts frantically working on Side Trek submissions for next year::
;-)
Hey Nick, How about time year you win the side-trek contest and I'll win the prestige class contest. You know, just to change stuff up. :) The latest Dragon hasn't hit my local shop but from what I'm hearing and what I heard at Origins I have got use this class.
TTFN
G to the ThreeThanks GGG! I can't wait to see yo Side Trek masterpiece! I have been traveling all over and couldn't pick up a Dungeon...but I will at Gencon fo' sure! Now I gotta get back to work...
::Starts frantically working on Side Trek submissions for next year::
;-)
Nick, I finally got a hold of Dragon 335. Charlatan so rocks. I have got to sqeeze "The Shroom of Doom" into my game.
"No, no, this could be dangerous. You go first."
GGG
PS If you don't get a chance to read/play the side trek you can vicariously experience it online in the Campaign Journals section. One of my players at Origins (Mr. Michael Kortes) has been kind (read cruel) enough to have immortalized the experience in prose. How will I ever live this down.... ;)
::Starts racking brain for PrC ideas ::
Ah ha! A prestige class that combines all the best parts of ninjas, pirates and dinosaurs! Huzzah! I am so winning!
Ah ha! A prestige class that combines all the best parts of ninjas, pirates and dinosaurs! Huzzah! I am so winning!
you say that like ninjas have good parts... :P
I could so see a veiled veliciraptor with an eye patch, clad in black pajamas with a black parrot on his shoulder.
"Wait, is that a cockateel rubbed down with coal dust?"
Ah ha! A prestige class that combines all the best parts of ninjas, pirates and dinosaurs! Huzzah! I am so winning!
Would you believe that this idea already exists somewhere, as part of a major movie francise. I hopped over to aintitcoonews and searched for it. The article's about a year old, and I personlly guarantee it'll NEVER see the innards of a theatre. . . but it's still pretty hilarious.
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=18166
Oh yeah, skip part Moriarty's intial rant. He was just a little upset at the time. . . :)
I found a perfect opportunity to use this prestige class in an adventure that I'm writing. He has a lot of fun abilities that play perfectly into my conception of his character; plus he has the potential to be a great recurring NPC. I love it.
I found a perfect opportunity to use this prestige class in an adventure that I'm writing. He has a lot of fun abilities that play perfectly into my conception of his character; plus he has the potential to be a great recurring NPC. I love it.
Does your black clad dino have a coal-colored parrot or a stealthy monkey?
I actually was going to use this prestige class for something I submitted... unfortunately the abilities would have put me so far above my word count (which was still in excess of 22,000 - not bad for a 15,000 word adventure huh?) that I had to settle for a boring old rogue....
Sorry Nick, it would have been cool.
GGG
Curse ye Word Count Gods, Curse YE!!!
Hope it works out great for ya Shroomy! Keep me posted if you playtest it and let me know how the Charlatan fares! Hope to see the adventure in Dungeon's pages someday soon!
I haven't even submitted the query yet (working on it tonight, but I'm a little burnt out after staying up late to watch Battlestar Galactica), so it needs to get past the grey render first. Maybe I can Bluff my way past...
I haven't even submitted the query yet (working on it tonight, but I'm a little burnt out after staying up late to watch Battlestar Galactica), so it needs to get past the grey render first. Maybe I can Bluff my way past...
I've heard the render doesn't do well with Bluffs or bribes, but distractions may work. :P