I know we have only begun the Age of Worms but could you imagine a high level or epic adventure path which deals with the largest cosmic scale war that has lasted almost since the beginning of time? I can already see the Dark Lord of the Nine Hells weaving his webs across the multiverse even now.
Kind of fits in well with Dragons Demon lord/princes articles doesn't it? Well that’s my idea, anyone else with a suggestion or two.
I think that would be a pretty cool idea. I know that in the Plansescape Monster Appendix in 2nd ed., there was a really cool vision that Mordenkaine (sp?) had. . . I'd have to dig those books out to read it again, but it said something like the temporal threads of the blood war will pierce through teh heart of humanity, or something like that. . . anyway, I thought it was cool. . .
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Blood War, Blood War, Blood War!
Ending the Blood War poses some problems (I don't think WOTC would be cool with invalidating some of their books), but I think basing AP3 on the Blood War is a great idea!
Devils need more exposure, demons are a favorite at Dungeon, and it would give a great chance to use Yugoloth mercenaries.
On the FR, you could base the adventure in Thay or Narfell (certainly areas with links or characters involved in the Blood War), and I'm sure a similar area could be determined in Eberron or Greyhawk ...
Sounds good to me!
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Well, an AP placed within the Blood War would be damn cool, but it shouldn't put an end to it.
This would change so much and i don't think a cool twelve-part adventure would be worth this.
I can't imagine the aftermath of the Blood War as cool as the war itself.
It would be a cool theme for a home campaign and i'd really love to see how this would evolve.
If the next AP did involve the Blood War (and I really like the reference to Mordenkainen's vision that was first mentioned in the Outer Planes Monstrous Compendium, pre-Planescape), the culmination would not nessiccarily have to end the Blood War (I can even picture 20th level characters doing that) but perhaps keeping the Blood War from spilling over onto the Material Plane and using the Material as a new battleground.
I think its a cool thought.
I think the Blood War connection is inspired. But I agree that ending the Blood War is a really bad idea. In fact I think something along the lines of having the campaign revolve around aspects of the blood war and the rivalry between Demons and Devils might be very interesting however.
Come to think of it one could concieve of an adventure path where the players eventually have to insure that the Blood War continues. I mean the Blood War is the best thing that ever happened to the forces of Good - it'd be a disaster should it ever end. Not sure it could be set up so it's cool but some kind of concept where the players final missions involve working with angels to infiltarte the lower planes and make sure that the Blood War is rekindled might be neat. Plus I think Angels and their ilk rock and love using them as NPCs in my games.
Its got some neat themes - Good players insuring that war and violence continue in order to further the aims of good.
...and while we are on teh topic - somebody kidnap Monte Cook and make him convert A Paladin in Hell to 3.5.
Actually thinking about this soem more - I'd like to see more adventures around the missions and purposes of Angels and their ilk. Might add something to the game as a whole to look a little more in depth at their place in D&D cosmology. I mean we know what Demons and Devils do and what their purpose is. But few adventures feature the forces of good - presumably players would be working with the forces of good of course so likely the varous icons of evil would play a part in such adventures.
...and while we are on teh topic - somebody kidnap Monte Cook and make him convert A Paladin in Hell to 3.5.
Just what I was thinking. A Paladin in Hell or the Planescape adventure Hellbound could be used as a prologue to set up the events of the Blood War Adventure path. I agree the Blood War should not end but perhaps if the characters shift the War in Favor of one side or the other you could be looking at a allot of desperate demons or devils.
Asmodeous v. Demogorgon who could ask for more?
By the way the vision of Mordenkainen goes like this:
It was shown to me the great evil of the two pits of darkness were engaged in a battle of infinity. They clashed together in endless energy and struggle and would likely continue to clash ever and ever.
When I had seen this battle I shuddered and a great fear came over me. I was inclined to break the trance and leave my dream state. But then I viewed a frightening sigh. A thousand times a thousand strands of unknown substance extended from infinity to infinity. They were coils of time and written upon them were the histories of all deeds and places. And when I saw that the strand that spoke of the Blood War passed thorough the lower planes and then directly through the heart of mankind, I truly knew fear.
Creative Director
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The Blood War is awesome. I'm fairly certain it won't figure in Adventure Path III.
Adventure Path 1: Lots of outsiders and demons and demodands and the like.
Adventure Path 2: Undead, undead, unead!
Adventure Path 3, I hope, will focus on something other than fiends or undead. Maybe not. We'll see. We're still months (or maybe just 1 month) away from needing to worry about that stuff.
By the way the vision of Mordenkainen goes like this:It was shown to me the great evil of the two pits of darkness were engaged in a battle of infinity. They clashed together in endless energy and struggle and would likely continue to clash ever and ever.
When I had seen this battle I shuddered and a great fear came over me. I was inclined to break the trance and leave my dream state. But then I viewed a frightening sigh. A thousand times a thousand strands of unknown substance extended from infinity to infinity. They were coils of time and written upon them were the histories of all deeds and places. And when I saw that the strand that spoke of the Blood War passed thorough the lower planes and then directly through the heart of mankind, I truly knew fear.
Thanks, Lord Vile. All of my D&D stuff is languishing in cardboard boxes right now, awaiting my big 1,250 mile move to Texas this weekend. I wanted to look it up, but I couldn't. . . :)
I would prefer something that predominately featured Githyanki and material from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Don't make me beg.
Honestly, I would be very satisfied if there was information or additional material that incorperated the psionic material. Any chance that might be included in AP2?
- Neomorte
I like the current Adventure Path a lot so far, so I'm not terribly worried about the next one. But I think a campaign featuring the Blood War could be very interesting. If I were running one, my premise would be that one side is gaining the upper hand, either with new leadership, a secret weapon, or an alliance. The PCs come in as a balancing agent, working with the other side in order to maintain the status quo and keep the forces of the Abyss and Hell occupied with each other.
By the way the vision of Mordenkainen goes like this:It was shown to me the great evil of the two pits of darkness were engaged in a battle of infinity. They clashed together in endless energy and struggle and would likely continue to clash ever and ever.
When I had seen this battle I shuddered and a great fear came over me. I was inclined to break the trance and leave my dream state. But then I viewed a frightening sigh. A thousand times a thousand strands of unknown substance extended from infinity to infinity. They were coils of time and written upon them were the histories of all deeds and places. And when I saw that the strand that spoke of the Blood War passed thorough the lower planes and then directly through the heart of mankind, I truly knew fear.
Perhaps it was madness that compelled me to scry into the Abyss, or perhaps it was my ever growing hunger for knowledge. Both, I think, are equal curses.
When I caused my mighty crystal of scrying to open into the great Abyss, I saw a sight quite simply unfit for mortal eyes to view. The great writhing mass of torment and hatred that extended infinatly in all directions tore my soul asunder and caused me to weep.
And as I scribed I became aware of an ancient war, a war of death, a war of blood! And soon I looked upon a place where darkness coalesced into substance, where hatred was given life and breath. I saw a pillar of flame that extended up into the sky and it rose from a base of torment. And the dead of the Abyss lined the base and their wails brought horror to my heart. The pillar took on images of torture and corruption so vile that I could scarcly look upon it.
Codex Mordenkainen
Next AP? Fey!
Or at least a campaign arc...
Come on guys, something?
As much as I love the idea of an Adventure Path centered around the Blood War, I'm afraid that demons and devils are in danger of becoming overused. It seems to me that fiends of one type or another have played central roles in many recent Dungeon adventures - to the point where they may be losing some of the mystery and sinister-ness that surrounds them.
Why not an adventure path centered around giants? Or duergar? Or even orcs, for that matter - as far as I can tell, they never seem to be used in adventures, despite their "common" status.
Along those lines - how about the next adventure path focues on a larger evil organization (like a pirate group or an unscrupulous merchant organization akin to the Iron Throne in the Forgotten Realms), rather than a small, deranged cult?
Don't get me wrong - I really liked the Shackled City AP, and so far I love the Age of Worms. I just think that a little change might be refreshing.
As much as I love the idea of an Adventure Path centered around the Blood War, I'm afraid that demons and devils are in danger of becoming overused. It seems to me that fiends of one type or another have played central roles in many recent Dungeon adventures - to the point where they may be losing some of the mystery and sinister-ness that surrounds them.
Why not an adventure path centered around giants? Or duergar? Or even orcs, for that matter - as far as I can tell, they never seem to be used in adventures, despite their "common" status.
Along those lines - how about the next adventure path focues on a larger evil organization (like a pirate group or an unscrupulous merchant organization akin to the Iron Throne in the Forgotten Realms), rather than a small, deranged cult?
Don't get me wrong - I really liked the Shackled City AP, and so far I love the Age of Worms. I just think that a little change might be refreshing.
I'm all for the common adventure but it's time take things to the next level.
The Age of Worms and Shackled City AP follow the same formula. The characters start at 1st level and end up around 20th. What's next for those characters? A bunch of old adventures sitting around the tavern reliving their glory years i.e. "do you guys remember the time we had to battle Hookface during that volcano eruption".
I was thinking that it would be cool to have an epic adventure path so those same character to can advance 20th to 30th and really go down in legends. Come on who doesn't want to play a 27th level wizard armed to the teeth with epic feats.
My thoughts where that it would take something as big as the Blood Wars to keep characters like that challenged. Maybe someone else has other ideas?
Well, the end of Shackled City ends with Grazz't really upset with the PCs for ruining well laid plans. I am sure that Kyuss with be upset with the party at the end of this one. Why not use the Blood War as the backdrop to an Epic Adventure Path where Grazz't and Kyuss team up to destroy these two adventuring groups by drawing them into the Blood War and pitting them directly against the legions of Baator.
However, I still think a githyanki focused Adventure Path would rock. There is no reason that information from Incusion could be used.
-Neomorte
Next AP? Fey!
Or at least a campaign arc...
Come on guys, something?
I, too, would like to see some Fey in an uncoming adventure.
:)
Next AP? Fey!
Or at least a campaign arc...
Come on guys, something?
I, too, would like to see some Fey in an uncoming adventure.
:)
Sure I could see Grazz't or Asmodeous swallowing a few fey souls before they launch an invasion into the players campign world hehe.
The Blood War is awesome. I'm fairly certain it won't figure in Adventure Path III.
Adventure Path 1: Lots of outsiders and demons and demodands and the like.
Adventure Path 2: Undead, undead, unead!Adventure Path 3, I hope, will focus on something other than fiends or undead. Maybe not. We'll see. We're still months (or maybe just 1 month) away from needing to worry about that stuff.
I'd like to see AP3 be something like a Dragon slayer or Giant hunter campaign, or maybe a warfare based game where the heroes take part in battles and secret missions admist the background of a humanoid invasion, or maybe play out the prevention of an invasion of Githyanki. There have been a couple of adventures along this invasion theme, but they have been pretty piecemeal.
Thought...Has anyone looked through all the old issues to see if there is a string of Gythyanki sdventures that can be put into a unofficial AP. I remember several existed, and perhapse some of the old SJ adventures could be used as filler. There was one Ghome Droppings, which could be used as an interlude with the result being that the players learn that the Gythyanki force is on the way.
Every AP doesn't need to ba ablut saving the world. The collection of 100 Adult red dragon skulls to destroy an artifact could be a coop plot and really let the PCs specialize with anti dragon prestige classes.
Something like that. OH, and create a plastic prepainted miniature line to support it, where the figures can be bought as singles off your website at affordable prices.
ASEO out
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Well, i don't think that the editors at Dungeon would consider an epic AP. I don't think that there's that much interest in epic level games that would justify an entire AP throughout several issues.
Look at the number of epic level adventures that have been published within the last years and i think that this is due to the lack of requests for this kind of adventures.
Maybe there could be something like a two- or even three-part epic level adventure focusing on the Blood War (i'd really love to see this) but a whole AP seems very unlikely to see the light of day.
The idea of a war-themed AP sounds really cool to me, especially if Githyanki would be involved. On the other hand, the Incursion-issues contained outlines for a whole campaign like this from 1st to epic levels, so i wouldn't count on it, that Dungeon will evolve these into an AP. There are all the informations present to do this on your own.
I think the next AP will have a totally different theme than the first two. They'll surely try something new with AP 3.
Maybe something that involves the planes (allright, there already was a little planar excursion in SC). This would be cool...
Maybe this could be an opportunity to revive something from the Planescape-setting that rests shamefully unused in the WotC-archives.
Well, the possibilities for the next AP are nearly endless, but i'm sure, they'll come up with something really cool.
The Blood War is awesome. I'm fairly certain it won't figure in Adventure Path III.
Adventure Path 1: Lots of outsiders and demons and demodands and the like.
Adventure Path 2: Undead, undead, unead!Adventure Path 3, I hope, will focus on something other than fiends or undead. Maybe not. We'll see. We're still months (or maybe just 1 month) away from needing to worry about that stuff.
I'd like to see AP3 be something like a Dragon slayer or Giant hunter campaign, or maybe a warfare based game where the heroes take part in battles and secret missions admist the background of a humanoid invasion, or maybe play out the prevention of an invasion of Githyanki. There have been a couple of adventures along this invasion theme, but they have been pretty piecemeal.
Thought...Has anyone looked through all the old issues to see if there is a string of Gythyanki sdventures that can be put into a unofficial AP. I remember several existed, and perhapse some of the old SJ adventures could be used as filler. There was one Ghome Droppings, which could be used as an interlude with the result being that the players learn that the Gythyanki force is on the way.
Every AP doesn't need to ba ablut saving the world. The collection of 100 Adult red dragon skulls to destroy an artifact could be a coop plot and really let the PCs specialize with anti dragon prestige classes.
Something like that. OH, and create a plastic prepainted miniature line to support it, where the figures can be bought as singles off your website at affordable prices.
ASEO out
The Dark Sun mega-adventure Black Spine dealt with a city of renegade Githyanki that try to invade Athas. With allot of hard work it might be converted into 3.5 and use for standard campaign worlds. It was a pretty kick ass adventure if I may say so.
Well, the end of Shackled City ends with Grazz't really upset with the PCs for ruining well laid plans. I am sure that Kyuss with be upset with the party at the end of this one. Why not use the Blood War as the backdrop to an Epic Adventure Path where Grazz't and Kyuss team up to destroy these two adventuring groups by drawing them into the Blood War and pitting them directly against the legions of Baator.
However, I still think a githyanki focused Adventure Path would rock. There is no reason that information from Incusion could be used.
-Neomorte
As a point of Forum ettiquette, please preface spoilers as such, as some of us have yet to finish the adventure path you speak of.
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Creative Director
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Epic adventures, as it turns out, are one of the more popular capstone systems for D&D; they're certainly more popular than psionics. And while I doubt we'll be doing an epic adventure path as Part III, I wouldn't say the same about an epic Campaign Arc; that's not a bad idea at all.
Demons and other fiends are certainly in danger of being overused in Dungeon, but that's partially because in the Monster Manual, the vast majority of the monsters at high CR are demons, devils, or other evil outsiders. That said, and assuming I'm still around for Adventure Path III (which I assume I will be)... I think that demons/devils/demodands/daemons aren't going to be the focus.
I've got some super rough ideas for what Adventure Path III will be about already. Not sure if we'll go with my idea or something else yet, but it's certainly going to be different than Shackled City or Age of Worms. Which means: we'll try REALLY HARD to avoid the deranged cult plot element.
I've got some super rough ideas for what Adventure Path III will be about already. Not sure if we'll go with my idea or something else yet, but it's certainly going to be different than Shackled City or Age of Worms. Which means: we'll try REALLY HARD to avoid the deranged cult plot element.
Is Dungeon accepting any outside Outline proposals?
Epic adventures, as it turns out, are one of the more popular capstone systems for D&D; they're certainly more popular than psionics. And while I doubt we'll be doing an epic adventure path as Part III, I wouldn't say the same about an epic Campaign Arc; that's not a bad idea at all.
James,
Would Dungeon consider an Epic Campaign Arc that furthered the story from Shackled City or, after it's conclusion, Age or Worms?
-Neomorte
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Creative Director
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We aren't accepting outside proposals for Adventure Paths. These monsters are complex and tough to set up, which makes keeping them in-house so we can manage things easier is a requirement. For authors, we want to assign the individual parts to writers we know can handle the project and trust to be able to turn in adventures on time. At least two of the authors of Age of Worms are writers who have done just this. So, if you want to get in on Adventure Path III, start impressing us with good ideas, solid rules knowledge, and the ability to turn in manuscripts in a timely manner. Of course, the first step there is to send in piles of adventure proposals to us.
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Creative Director
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James,
Would Dungeon consider an Epic Campaign Arc that furthered the story from Shackled City or, after it's conclusion, Age or Worms?
-Neomorte
This isn't outside the realm of possibility. We'd probably prefer to do something new, but the Adventure paths are popular enough that who knows what the future may bring?
We aren't accepting outside proposals for Adventure Paths. These monsters are complex and tough to set up, which makes keeping them in-house so we can manage things easier is a requirement. For authors, we want to assign the individual parts to writers we know can handle the project and trust to be able to turn in adventures on time. At least two of the authors of Age of Worms are writers who have done just this. So, if you want to get in on Adventure Path III, start impressing us with good ideas, solid rules knowledge, and the ability to turn in manuscripts in a timely manner. Of course, the first step there is to send in piles of adventure proposals to us.
That's Cool.
I think it's be neat to do something with the Elemental Princes of Evil. I also think the that flavor of such a campaign would require very extreme environments on the Prime. Not so much a diabolica plot, so much as as a conflict BETWEEN primal elemental forces, causing bad weather and extreme terrain conditions. Also using the Para and Quasi planar creatures could add alot of theme and variety.
...it's certainly going to be different than Shackled City or Age of Worms. Which means: we'll try REALLY HARD to avoid the deranged cult plot element.
Someone said that he thought that the Shackled City plot was fairly uninspiring, and perhaps he'd feel the same way about the Age of Worms, seeing that it revolves around groups of people that are trying to release some big evil someone from somewhere.
It's almost like Buffy the Vampire Slayer:
Giles: The world is going to end.
The Scoobies: Again?!
It would be fun to run these two campaigns back to back with the same set of players.
I can't believe that we're all eager to hear about APIII when we've only just begun AoW!
Sorry to hog the boards, but I had another idea.
What if you did something regarding time travel. . . with a focus on temporal instability? It could use a completely new idea, or maybe some variation or harbinger surrounding the Quicksilver Hourglass published last May.
I think it would be interesting to have an adventure or two actually set at the same location. . . kind of a Chrono Trigger, kind of thing. . . plus there's an urgency that doesn't necessarily involve a big bad guy at teh end (of course, there still WILL be a big bad guy, just not a scheming Fiend or Undead creature).
There could be in influx of past cultures than span thousands of years into the past. . . lizard man kingdoms, Fey kingdoms, Insect kingdoms. . . all of which resided at the same spot in space. . . millions of years apart.
Argh. . . okay one more. . .
What's Bruce Cordell up to these days? Maybe a Far Realms campaign would be cool. It's would be nice to use the Kaorti in a bigger plot. . . they were always pretty sweet.
Cordell mentioned once in GoFP that the Far Realms was ONE of many different realities. Maybe the APIII can introduce a brand new Plane of Existence to D&D. . . something with a new flavor to it.
This would be a good excuse to use just about every abberation in all of the Monster COnpendiums! Plus, you could make up a bunch more.
Okay, I'm done.
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What if you did something regarding time travel. . . with a focus on temporal instability?
I've been trying to gather thoughts if this exact variety for an plot, but haven't been that successful so far. In particular, I'm wanting to use the Chronotherion (the four-armed hawkmen) from Fiend Folio. Has anything been done with them? They are too cool to let just languish in the outer realms...
What if you did something regarding time travel. . . with a focus on temporal instability?I've been trying to gather thoughts if this exact variety for an plot, but haven't been that successful so far. In particular, I'm wanting to use the Chronotherion (the four-armed hawkmen) from Fiend Folio. Has anything been done with them? They are too cool to let just languish in the outer realms...
I JUST sent in a high-level proposal with one one these yesterday. . . actually, it's a resubmit from back in March.
Like collecting the Rod of Seven parts and battling Miska the Wolf-Spider. Yeah, I just put that in another thread, but I'm tenacious.
James,Would Dungeon consider an Epic Campaign Arc that furthered the story from Shackled City or, after it's conclusion, Age or Worms?
-Neomorte
It's already been done.
I use a home-grown world that has a history tied closely with fiends, so an AP about the Blood War would be really awesome in my mind. As far as ending said conflict, would that even be possible without the destruction of almost every devil, demon, and archfiend, and finding a way to stop anymore from spawning? And the idea of actually getting some celetsials involved as important factors also sounds cool. I find that there is rarely enough planeshifting going on in adventures, considering its amazing potential. I had a rough idea once of a party finding an abandoned wizard's tower, and discovering the whole thing was actually a massive device of planar travel.
That said, I would also like to see something featuring orcs a little more. For such a prevalent threat to the world, they don't seem to get much screen time. That could be the low-level part of the aforementioned Blood War campaign.
However, it has been made clear that the Blood War probably wont be used. I like the idea of the githyanki, and it could also involve mind flayers- I think it's about time to have the illithids threaten the world again. That could make for some interesting interactions and trips to the Underdark, which would pull in classics like drow and duergar. An interesting twist would have the players ally with these forces to stop the githyanki. It could go the other way, but I think joining the illithids' side would be even more unexpected (and interesting).
If someone could find a way to thread Inevitables through it, that would be cool, too. I've also been toying with ideas of a campaign centered around stopping a super-devastating magical plague (I like Incabulos- I use the full GH pantheon despite making my own world). Just some thoughts.
I've got some super rough ideas for what Adventure Path III will be about already. Not sure if we'll go with my idea or something else yet, but it's certainly going to be different than Shackled City or Age of Worms. Which means: we'll try REALLY HARD to avoid the deranged cult plot element.
So James,
I was going over some of the plot points in the Shackled City Adventure Path last night. Specifically, The Secrets of Soul Pillars and Strike at Shatterhorn. I also seem to recall the fall of the Spellweaver Empire many ages ago was mentioned in the AOW overload and that in one of the upcoming adventures for the Age of Worms the players will learn more about Spellweavers.
I guess my point is our you folks planning on doing the next Adventure path about the return of the Spellweavers?
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In particular, I'm wanting to use the Chronotherion (the four-armed hawkmen) from Fiend Folio. Has anything been done with them? They are too cool to let just languish in the outer realms...I JUST sent in a high-level proposal with one one these yesterday. . . actually, it's a resubmit from back in March.
Y'know, dude, it's an injustice of cosmic proportions that you're movin' here to Texas and still gonna be 6 hours away. I like the way your devious little mind thinks, Senor WerePlatypus.
Heh. . . thanks. I'm learning that TX is a massive state. It's like it's own country, or something. You can fit 7 Indiana's inside of the Texas borders. That's too big. We definitely need to stage some kind of revolt or uprising that results in a political splintering. . .
What was your "Time Birdie" idea about?
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What was your "Time Birdie" idea about?
Well, I saw the Birdies as trying to manipulate the history to their own ends and tricking the players into helping them by sending them back about 400 years.
I thought it would be fun to incorporate something with the Lays of Bar Strannach (where a huge Fomorian giant wanders into the town of Bar Strannach, kills half the town and has a fit spouting prophesies about the fall of the Great Kingdom, then vomiting out a tome as he dies). I thought the players could help take him down/minimize damage to the town and bear witness to the 'birth' of the book. Eventually, the players are pulled back forward to the start of Ivid I's reign where they have decide who's future is bes...Ivid's, the Chronotherions', or one that they try to piece together themselves.
There's a bit more, but I still hadn't found the strings to weave it together more tightly. Part of my troubles is I need to work more at understanding chronomancy. If you want to talk, you can e-mail me at haka21@hotmail.com
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I would like to see something "normal" for APIII. What I mean is:
- no outer planes, astral or etheral
- no cults
- no devils or demons
What I would like to see is:
- a full out war scenario (like the Last War), with the pcs doing espionage, being messangers, and so on...
- vampire slavers
- guild war in a city
- high sea adventures (with sahuagin) and lost sunken citys to explore
- just some bad guys with no ties to a cult
- something like a "holy crusade"
and so on...
Just take a normal plot and pump it up without cults, demons, and ... ok, I've already said that ;)
I'll second the naval AP. Ever since watching the 'Pirates of darkwater' cartoon series as a kid I wanted to run a naval D&D campaign.
Although A Bloodwar campaign sounds cool too. Perhaps you could start where the Planecsape blood war boxed set left off?
