Yanno, every fan of Planescape seems to ignore one central reality:
They stopped making it because it wasn't selling.
While "The Blood War" no doubt seems cool to you - I would not buy it. Extraplanar adventures have exactly ZERO interest to me.
Ok
There's a bit more, but I still hadn't found the strings to weave it together more tightly. Part of my troubles is I need to work more at understanding chronomancy. If you want to talk, you can e-mail me at haka21@hotmail.com
Well, I'm back.
Galveston is beautiful. . . but my new house is not. Full of boxes, dust, etc. It'll take a long time to clean, but as I am still out of work for about a month, I got the time.
I'll send you an E-mail. . . but I can't say I know much about chronomancy, except for what I learned in college (First Rule: No classes before 11am).
Oh yeah, to keep this post relevant: I think the APIII should include a bit of everything mentioned here. . . the good 'ole humanoid war idea is a good one. . . but only for a single issue. There still have to be dungeon crawls, small fights, etc. Maybe it could be organized like Foundations of Flame in API. A series of events, with maybe one or two specific PC goals, sort of like capture the flag.
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The Blood War? That has a whole boatload of potential but the idea of the giant hunter campaign intrigues me. Could you imagine an adventure path that covers and details the ongoing struggle in Geoff? 1st-level PCs created to join the ranks and battle the giant occupation while uncovering a far reaching plot, going deeper than detailed in Against the Giants. Interesting.
I would like to add a vote for an epic campaign arc.Something that could be tied to an adventure path but does not necessarily connect to any particular adventure path.
I would also like to add that an adventure path does not need to place the entire world in danger, just enough of it to provide a frolicking good adventure.
I would like to add a vote for an epic campaign arc.Something that could be tied to an adventure path but does not necessarily connect to any particular adventure path.
I would also like to add that an adventure path does not need to place the entire world in danger, just enough of it to provide a frolicking good adventure.
I don't know if it's just a misconception, but I get the feeling that epic campaigns are more the realm of the min/maxer and that they take away all oppurtunities for roleplaying. Obviously, in some cases this would not be the case, but I'm wondering what other peoples experiences with epic campaigns are? The closet I have gotten is playing a 20th level which pitted us against a whole army with some dragons flying around.
Let's just say that didn't last too long. :)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
Yanno, every fan of Planescape seems to ignore one central reality:
They stopped making it because it wasn't selling.
The line sold well, however given the large use of box sets, and the much larger set of inks used to print the Planescape line versus the standard inks used in the other TSR lines of the period, the Planescape line made less profit on more sales versus some of the others lines being sold.
They ended the line, along with every setting except for FR and the Greyhawk/Core line after 2e. By your logic every other line 'wasn't selling' either. Nice one. Planescape just isn't being published as a seperate setting unto itself, but it's the core/default cosmology in 3e.
Given the amount of planar material that shows up in 3e sources, nearly every book I can think of, that directly comes from Planescape I could argue that Planescape sees as much or more love in 3e than Greyhawk does.
Regarding a Blood War adventure path, as I posted on Enworld:
With regards to doing a Blood War adventure path. Don't treat it as something that you can stop, or that you even want to stop. The Blood War predates the Gods, it prevents the Lower Planes from uniting, it is both a blessing and a curse for the upper planes, a sinkhole of morality and the foremost expression of evil falling in upon itself.
However the seeds are set if they wanted some plot(s) to have epic level PCs have a hand in, and have a realistic chance of actually having any effect upon the Blood War:
1) Grazzt wants to end the Blood War, temporarily, in order to have a united lower planes devour the upper planes, and after that in his mind the Tanar'ri would then once more turn upon the Baatezu. If he managed to have any sort of chance to pull this off, that might make an interesting plot arc. Obviously other groups would oppose him (the upper planes, the Yugoloths since they started it and they damn well want to be the ones to end it, the Rilmani, etc and would make for some bizarre bedfellows).
2) The Yugoloths at some point, or their makers the Baern, will want to end the Blood War if they feel that it has served its ultimate purpose. At that point they'd intend to obliterate the Upper Planes with a subjugated Abyss and Baator serving as cannon fodder under their rule. This won't happen likely at any point in the immediate future, but perhaps a splinter group within the yugoloth heirarchy, or perhaps a renegade Baernaloth (in the same tradition of Apomps the Triple Aspected) felt differently, and felt the need to accelerate/end their racial handling of the Blood War as a massive experiment and turn it into a conquest of the Upper Planes.
3) Perhaps a group of Celestials decide to take an active roll in the Blood War and they risk turning the lower planes against the upper (which happened once before, ended terribly for the celestials, and is largely why they no longer take a part in it). Perhaps the PCs would be the ones to stop them from doing this, perhaps finding that they were colluding with other splinter groups in the Lower Planes, etc.
FWIW, I ran a campaign up to about level 30([url]http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=77613[/url]), ultimately involving the PCs in a conflict* versus the Oinoloth and a cabal of Baernaloths. Took about three years from start to finish, and didn't fall into the trap of PCs gone wild killing abyssal lords in one on one combat, but also not making them insignificant mortals without a hope of changing anything in the War Eternal, which is normally the case for anyone really involved.
* this was not a direct 'roll initiative versus the Oinoloth' conflict because they'd have gotten crushed like bugs. Archfiends aren't just freaking bigger monsters to encounter in Abyssal dungeons to kill, they deserve more intelligent and in depth treatment.
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2) The Yugoloths at some point, or their makers the Baern, will want to end the Blood War if they feel that it has served its ultimate purpose. At that point they'd intend to obliterate the Upper Planes with a subjugated Abyss and Baator serving as cannon fodder under their rule. This won't happen likely at any point in the immediate future, but perhaps a splinter group within the yugoloth heirarchy, or perhaps a renegade Baernaloth (in the same tradition of Apomps the Triple Aspected) felt differently, and felt the need to accelerate/end their racial handling of the Blood War as a massive experiment and turn it into a conquest of the Upper Planes.
The Baern??? Never heard of em. What book did you get them out of? Were they in the Planar Handbook?
The Baern??? Never heard of em. What book did you get them out of? Were they in the Planar Handbook?2) The Yugoloths at some point, or their makers the Baern, will want to end the Blood War if they feel that it has served its ultimate purpose. At that point they'd intend to obliterate the Upper Planes with a subjugated Abyss and Baator serving as cannon fodder under their rule. This won't happen likely at any point in the immediate future, but perhaps a splinter group within the yugoloth heirarchy, or perhaps a renegade Baernaloth (in the same tradition of Apomps the Triple Aspected) felt differently, and felt the need to accelerate/end their racial handling of the Blood War as a massive experiment and turn it into a conquest of the Upper Planes.
'Hellbound: The Blood War' - the comprehensive source for anything related to the Blood War in DnD. 2e Planescape. Additional material in 'Faces of Evil: The Fiends' (the seminal resource for the history/society/ecology of the primary fiend races), and 'Planes of Conflict'.
Yanno, every fan of Planescape seems to ignore one central reality:
They stopped making it because it wasn't selling.While "The Blood War" no doubt seems cool to you - I would not buy it. Extraplanar adventures have exactly ZERO interest to me.
Ditto.
I have no idea how anyone would be able to write an AP that involved getting characters onto another plane before Epic levels...and live. Even if they could, I usually find more compelling plots at lower levels; survival is always a big motivator.
M
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'Hellbound: The Blood War' - the comprehensive source for anything related to the Blood War in DnD. 2e Planescape. Additional material in 'Faces of Evil: The Fiends' (the seminal resource for the history/society/ecology of the primary fiend races), and 'Planes of Conflict'.
Ah, that explains it. My old group had a shortlived Planescape campaign, but as I was a player, I never bought the books. Thanks for the info Todd.
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I think the naval-themed campaign (with vampire slavers based on a remote island, treacherous sahuagins and scheming krakens) built along a commercial struggle between two rival merchant guilds could be truly something new.
But again, the planar campaign (blood war or the great prime elementals idea) is really, really tempting.
An epic campaign arc is something we poor hard working DMs need desperately (hint, hint).
But please, no warfare-against-humanoids&giants campaign: I just finished writing one myself.
OK, just joking (though I really just wrote one).
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Personally, I think the last thing they should do for the next AP is anything involving the outer planes. The first AP involved all kinds of planar stuff. AoW is dealing with the plotting of a demigod. Maybe they should just do something a little more prime material-ish. Like have the PCs square off against some master criminal and his diabolical, realm spanning plans.
They could start off by having the PCs thwart several plans intiated by the Main Bad Guy (MBG). During these first few adventures the PCs can clash with various henchmen of the MBG, slowly working their way up his command structure.
Eventually, they could throw in the inevitable MBG hires folk to kill the PCs. They could even throw a wierd loop in their by having the PCs team up with the MBGs people at some point.
Ultimately, they arrange the classic showdown as the PCs try to stop some diabolical, master plan initiated by the MBG; A plan whose preparation has spanned the entire campaign but never been directly touching what the PCs were doing.
OK, I'm rambling. I'll shut up now (and wait for the inevitable 'Thank God').
Yanno, every fan of Planescape seems to ignore one central reality:
They stopped making it because it wasn't selling.
While "The Blood War" no doubt seems cool to you - I would not buy it. Extraplanar adventures have exactly ZERO interest to me.
Well my take on it was not that everything would take place in the Abyss or Hell but that the plots and mysteries pertaining to the Blood War would serve as a central focus to the campaign. Maybe something along the lines of the PCs becoming involved in a campaign that slowly shows evidence that the Blood War is spilling over into the Prime Material Plane or something like that. Any actual traveling to the Lower Planes should be limited mostly to the last few adventures.
I agree with Aberzombie; definitely make things a little less grandiose. I don't mean make the events have no bearing on the rest of the world, or make them not important; I mean, with the previous APs being what they are, make them maybe not involving so many "extraplanar forces". I don't know about you guys, but I like to run campaigns where deities don't play such of a big role in interfearing or causing the adventure. To use an example from my current Eberron campaign, the basic plot line involves the Karrns using strange dragonshards known as Destiny dragonshards, which allow the user, if using the proper rite, to change the text of the Prophecy itself (however their is a caveat which I won't mention, for fear some of my players are reading this :)) ,which was used to make githyanki be able to come to Eberron in great numbers and obey the Karrns, for their plans for world domination (*cackles evily at secret still being concealed*). But, you may notice that no deities or demigods are in this. I would like adventures more in this vein.
WaterdhavianFlapjack
If I want mundane, or 'down to earth' I wouldn't play D&D. Give me grand schemes, give me plots conquer the world, or better yet, to distroy it!
The real problem around the end of a 20 level adventure path is that there are very few 'mundane' (as in, non godlike) creatures to challenge a party. And the bragging potential is far better for a campaign that feastures an ancient lich who wants to become a demigod*.
*(a cupcake for whomever can name all the published adventures that one has shown up in).
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The Blood War could serve as an awesome backdrop to an AP. The campaign needn't even start there ... just build up to landing the PCs there, and at the AP's end, have them finally return home.
There could be something to motivate the PCs to go to the Blood War ... or perhaps merely motivate them to finding out something that inadvertently leads them to the Blood War without their realizing it.
Here's an idea:
A series of planar breaches between the Material Plane and Planes of the Blood War cause the PCs to invest time in fighting an influx of demons and devils that impacts their surroundings, be it directly or indirectly. However, over time the PCs realize that these breaches are increasing in effect and rate. Thus, they realize that they can't either hope to keep fighting of ever-growing demon incursions, nor pray for the breaches to cease. Instead, they take it upon themselves, or are cajoled into taking on, an exploration of "Why" these breaches are happening, and more so, "How" to stop them. (This could easily be Adventures 1, 2 and 3.)
Their first plan of action - "Why." They must travel (or be teleported) to a location that "might" possess essential knowledge, or at least clues to what's going on. (Can anyone say Candlekeep.) Alas, whilst researching, the library falls under attack, which leads to PCs to suspect that something is trying to prevent them in doing their research. Alas, their research only provides a partial clue. (Adventure 4?)
They must move on to another location for information. Again, upon arriving, they are again besieged by adversaries, but this time in greater number to suggest that they are getting closer. But again, they receive only a partial clue and directions to another location. (Adventure 5?)
Alas, in order to reach the third location, which is an "out of the way" spot, they must travel through a portal to get there. Part of the adventure is finding the portal (and the key to open it ... which perhaps they have already) and the second part is what happens when they move through the portal. I.e., Welcome to the Blood War! Either by malfunction, manipulation, or design, the PCs are dumped right in to the Blood War. The remainder of this adventure could be (a) stay alive and (b) find sanctuary to get their bearings. (Adventure 6.)
Perhaps by clues hinted at prior, or by exploring their new surroundings, the PCs realize that the library of knowledge they seek is indeed on the Plane they are now occupying. They must now traverse the distance (safely) to reach that library. En route, not only must they contend with Blood War patriots, but also staged attacks that seem to be more than just "run ins." I.e., the unseen foe is still out there attacking them. (Adventure 7.)
The library. The first issue - gaining entrance. Not like a normal library, this is secluded and locked tight. Hence, the PCs must find a way inside. Likely, clues from their experiences suggest how. Once inside, they may have to deal with hostiles whilst slinking about and examining bits of knowledge spread throughout the levels upon levels of the library. Perhaps this is a private library that they broke into. In the end, they learn that in fact, their homeworld was not experiencing planar breaches, but rather the symptoms of an involuntary planar shift. The issue - how to stop something of such magnitude? The answer - learn how it's being done in the first place. (Adventure 8.)
How's it being done? The easiest way to that answer may be - who's doing it? Because the PCs have been attacked time and time again by some nemesis, they must suspect that there's someone else who either (a) knows what's going on or (b) is behind the whole thing. Fortunately, by now, the answer may come a bit more easily than expected, particularly when the PCs are set upon again either (a) while still in the library or (b) in or near some area they've defined as "sanctuary." The attack leaves them the opportunity to follow a pursuer (or apprehend one). After varying tactics, they secure a "guide" to take them to its leader. (I.e., may be prohibited from speaking, but not from taking.) (Adventure 9?)
From the Blood Wars to the Abyss. The demon leads the PCs on what appears to be a wild goose chase - collecting trinkets along the way (or simply bypassing them) to a portal leading into Pandemonium, and from there, into a particular layer of the abyss .... The home of Demogorgon. (Adventure 10.)
Rest on the Border Town. An ill-suited border town surrounds the portal. Strange inhabitants, violence, and yet, good trade. A near lawful evil mentality governs this town as restraints keep MOST ill actitivities in check ... or atleast out of the public's perception. But then, another attack renders their guide dead and them having to find the next clue as to where to go. All the while, the sky shifts from reds and greys to the familiar blue (and sometimes night) sky of their home world. It is here that the locus of activities are. The PCs gain a sense of direction and must travel to Demogorgon's lair. (Adventure 11.)
The Twist. Two heads of Demogorgon. One has gained the knowledge of planar blending and is working with his minion to finally gain control over the material plane. This will not only give him the upperhand in the Blood War, but also utmost domination. The problem, the other head thinks NOT! (It wants the power all to itself!) But that isn't the twist. The twist is this: The PCs have been pawns of the latter head all this while. It was THAT HEAD who has been staging attacks against the PCs and likewise, leading them here. Chaotic? You betcha! But there is a method to its madness - early on, the PCs stood out in battling demons and devils that it took notice, but it realized that the PCs surely lacked at the time, the ability to survive long enough on this plane to CONVINCE the other head of Demogorgon to stop the breach. Hence, the task: (a) Kill Demogorgon (yeah right) or (b) Convince Demogorgon that finishing the fusion would not be good for Demogorgon. Assuming that is accomplished, then the PCs are allowed the opportunity to return home. (Of course, knowing that such an ability to meld planes exists leads to the exciting option of epic quests to track down and destroy all traces of lore describing how to accomplish such, or even to convince Oghma that such knowledge should not be shared ... which obviously is beyond the course of this adventure.) (Adventure 12.)
PROS to the Adventure:
1. Blood War
2. Lots of Combat and Puzzle Gathering.
3. Great chances for exotic planar magic, armor and weaponry.
4. Demogorgon.
CONS:
1. Little area to rest en route, particularly once you hit the Blood War.
2. Hard to run each individual adventure on its own, as they are all so tightly stacked.
3. Few PCs to aid. I.e., YOU ARE ALONE.
4. Once you hit the Blood War, little chance to buy and sell supplies, unless you happen upon some Djinni merchant or something. Hence, restocking may be heavily dependent on who you kill or what you take.
Still, this poses an idea as to how an Adventure Path could work.
I think a merchant campaign based on like the Silk Road, but like set on Toril, would be really cool. It would like tie the FR, Kara-tur, and Al-Qadim campaigns together, have like scads of opportunities for like combat and stuff, and still have lots of non-combat encounters opportunites for those of us less interested in like rolling handfuls of dice...
I say an Underdark would be the best, a war of drow and the mind flayers/beholders or something. It could spill on the surface also.
If not maybe a semi underdark theme, gith vs. mind flayer. Something like that.
We need to use more abariations for that new book.
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I say an Underdark would be the best, a war of drow and the mind flayers/beholders or something. It could spill on the surface also.
If not maybe a semi underdark theme, gith vs. mind flayer. Something like that.
We need to use more abariations for that new book.
Maybe it's just me (and my campaigns), but I'm getting a little worn out on underdark campaigns. I like the idea of a Blood War campaign, or perhaps a Planescape campaign ... or even Spelljammer. Just a little something out of the ordinary. :)
I like the idea of a Blood War campaign, or perhaps a Planescape campaign
One and the same :) The two are effectively inseperable. Trying to do a Blood War campaign that wasn't intimately drawing upon the huge amount of PS lore would be like trying to talk about Greyhawk and ignoring everything that Gygax ever wrote, or about FR and ignoring anything by Greenwood, if not more so.
I wouldn't mind an Illithid themed campaign arc myself, though I might have more fun with a Githyanki / Psurlon arc.
I don't know if it's just a misconception, but I get the feeling that epic campaigns are more the realm of the min/maxer and that they take away all oppurtunities for roleplaying. Obviously, in some cases this would not be the case, but I'm wondering what other peoples experiences with epic campaigns are? The closet I have gotten is playing a 20th level which pitted us against a whole army with some dragons flying around.
Let's just say that didn't last too long. :)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
I've been running the same campaign for...uhhh...two years now, and the characters are all at epic level (by now). It's no longer about throwing bigger and badder monsters at them - it's not satisfying for me or the players. It's really about pacing the story and creating situations where it can't be resolved by who has the bigger stick (or sword, or maximized fireball). Epic level or not, not everything can be handled with force.
I recently had a long conversation with one of the players (who happens to be a GM as well) and discussed the fact that it was becoming increasingly difficult to continue the story, especially in light of their higher levels. Paraphrasing what he said, this is what he told me.
1.) You must know your players. (The first chapter in DMG 2 covers this - do you have a brilliant planner, the action junkie, the loner, the lurker? Play to their needs and wants.)
2.) You must know the characters. (I used to do "quizzes" at the beginning of a game session, asking the players how their characters would do a certain thing, what their fears are, who their character's role models were growing up, things like that. I had fallen out of the habit of doing this - my bad. It's a great way to get in the mood and get the players thinking about their characters. Plus, it's great fodder for future adventures.)
3.) Be flexible. Just because you think an adventure should go a particular way, don't "make it so" - the players have to believe they are affecting the world, even in a small way.
With Epic adventures, you really need to change the focus of your games - hack n' slash doesn't cut it anymore (at least, not with me & my group).
I don't know if it's just a misconception, but I get the feeling that epic campaigns are more the realm of the min/maxer and that they take away all oppurtunities for roleplaying. Obviously, in some cases this would not be the case, but I'm wondering what other peoples experiences with epic campaigns are? The closet I have gotten is playing a 20th level which pitted us against a whole army with some dragons flying around.
Let's just say that didn't last too long. :)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
I've been running the same campaign for...uhhh...two years now, and the characters are all at epic level (by now). It's no longer about throwing bigger and badder monsters at them - it's not satisfying for me or the players. It's really about pacing the story and creating situations where it can't be resolved by who has the bigger stick (or sword, or maximized fireball). Epic level or not, not everything can be handled with force.
I recently had a long conversation with one of the players (who happens to be a GM as well) and discussed the fact that it was becoming increasingly difficult to continue the story, especially in light of their higher levels. Paraphrasing what he said, this is what he told me.
1.) You must know your players. (The first chapter in DMG 2 covers this - do you have a brilliant planner, the action junkie, the loner, the lurker? Play to their needs and wants.)
2.) You must know the characters. (I used to do "quizzes" at the beginning of a game session, asking the players how their characters would do a certain thing, what their fears are, who their character's role models were growing up, things like that. I had fallen out of the habit of doing this - my bad. It's a great way to get in the mood and get the players thinking about their characters. Plus, it's great fodder for future adventures.)
3.) Be flexible. Just because you think an adventure should go a particular way, don't "make it so" - the players have to believe they are affecting the world,...
I'm getting ready to finish up a campaign I have been running for about a year or so, starting at 1st and so far at 16th. I think it's nice, but I do agree with the issue of bigger monsters not being satisfing. They have their place, but should not be included all of the time. However, I still find that I like 1st level and low level campaigns the most, because you aren't the most powerful person on the world. I don't really know, I just have a preference for low-levels. However, obviously D&D would not be as close to as much fun with no leveling up. :)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
How about an adventure or adventure path that involved Iuz and the World of Greyhawk... like a trip to the Soulhusks to try and strip away Iuz's powers. It could involve Iggwilv, Grazzt, General Sindol. Maybe discover a legacy weapon that grows more powerful as the PCs progress... like the Torch of Anazander...
Well, why not keep it somewhat basic? Just take dragons. They are one namegiving part of the game, so an AP revolving around them would be in order.
Stefan
Demons, Devils, Dragons and Undead getting too much play? I'd say 3.5e offers a nice escape from this, thanks to the monster advancement rules. An orc can be CR20, if he's a 20th level orc.
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Warning - what follows started off as a stream of consciousness ramble about how I'd plot an extended game to have a final boss and sub-bosses that had none of the overplayed monsters in them. It ended up being more than a little pedantic. My apologies to experienced DMs who already know all this stuff, and may want to skip the rest of this post rather than get preached at about how to write a whole adventure series without using demons, devils, etc..
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There's no reason you can't run an adventure with any monster at its center. Let's take a look at the illithid. They're a classic mastermind race, suitable for writing plots around, but they tend to get overlooked for higher level adventures 'cause they're a measly CR8. Add class levels to them, though, and you can easily craft a CR-whatever-you-want. It's fun to write up a 16th level illithid sorcerer. Really. Try it sometime. Along the way you think about what his unique tactics are, what underlings run the day to day business of the faction he heads, and so on.
The trick is in not having to write up EVERY monster as a classed monster, because that gets tedious and takes up a lot of wordcount. So you think about what stock critters you want alongside them. An illithid sorcerer. Hm. Well, dholes are classic. Excuse me, purple worms. If the final villain for our plot arc is a single-serving cthulhu (as mind flayers are) then the party simply must face some purple worms on the way to him. Mimics and oozes would fit in well with a creepy fortress built to keep an illithid safe, so in they go, too. Probably a golem guardian or two as well.
Next we precipitate down the CRs. Prior to facing our CR20 Illithid mastermind, we want the party to face a CR18 sub-boss. If the boss is CR18, then we want the mainline encounters leading up to him to be about CR16. Hm. I've got an idea for Storm Giants. They're CR13, so a trio makes CR16. Wait, what are Storm Giants doing fighting for an illithid? Glad you asked. Their leader is batty. Thoroughly. And they aren't fully in possession of their own minds, either. No, in fact, certain crucial portions of those minds are in pickling jars back at our Illithid mastermind's citadel. Now the pitiful creatures are in service to an insane usurper with goals of his own. If your party doesn't find it at least a little creepy that they're being attacked by normally good creatures with angry-red lobotomy scars, then I don't know what to tell you.
To make sure the lobotomy has some game reality, we give it a tiny rules footprint to keep it from being entirely cosmetic: critters lobotomized by the illithid in this way are more easily lead because they lose much capacity for free will. The downside is they lose a round thinking whenever they have to be creative. The upside is they also lost the grey matter that would make them vulnerable to sleep, charm, or paralysis effects. There: Creepy storm giants with just a hint of zombie.
We want to play up the artist nature of storm giants, so we drop lots of magical traps around this dungeon with artistic themes: A door that can only be opened by playing the correct tune on the magical harp sitting opposite it. Incorrect turns odd things, including angry monsters from time to time. A painted ceiling depicting the conflict between light and darkness comes to life - the dark half of it, anyway: enter a nightwing. We want the net effect to be to demonstrate that the boss of the dungeon has a twisted logic all his own, that it's dangerous and beautiful and leads to some really tactically interesting fights. Ooh, one more idea: A giant brass astrolabe, big enough for the party to walk along the arms of the device and into the wireframe bodies of the planets. No, I haven't figured out yet whether it's a puzzle, or a trap, or the scene of a fight, or why the big bad has one in his base, but it's a good flavor bit to set a scene inside. I'm certain the party will end up inside some of the planet-shells while whatever it is happens, and it gets me started on figuring out exactly what this guys madness is. Something to do with the stars, apparently.
And on back you go, precipitating adventures down to the starter. Along the way you have to figure out sub-plots and sub-bosses with their own agendas, so it's not an obvious march up to the top. Knowing who the next bosses are makes it easy to drop clues into the lower scenarios to pay off later. Also, you know illithids are your key bosses, so you can throw a smattering of them around. Around the time the party is 6th level you're set to have one be the big-bad for a dungeon, or a major encounter between rest stops. When the party is 12th level, you can send them through a major camp of illithid - perhaps a meeting ground where the master's plots are hashed out and detailed. Between these levels you can drop a few stock illithid here and there, in whatever concentration is desired to keep them fresh in the players' minds.
Above these levels you put maybe one or two mind flayers with class levels as important field agents of the final boss. At the lower levels, you drop creepy servants that are not themselves illithids. I'm seeing a corrupted (body and soul) town mayor working with a band of grimlocks to "bring prosperity to his town." i.e. sack the neighboring villages in the night, take what he wants, hand over enemies of the illithid master to the grimlocks and so on. Again, you want to play up the flavor elements of the enemies of the moment: a power mad man, usurping his people's trust and drawing them into his own corruption. A woods full of hideous, blind creatures that wait for light-needy investigators to stumble into their ambushes.
And there you go. Want to stretch a monster of whatever CR to have a whole plot around it? That's one way.
The Blood War is awesome. I'm fairly certain it won't figure in Adventure Path III.
Adventure Path 1: Lots of outsiders and demons and demodands and the like.
Adventure Path 2: Undead, undead, unead!Adventure Path 3, I hope, will focus on something other than fiends or undead. Maybe not. We'll see. We're still months (or maybe just 1 month) away from needing to worry about that stuff.
How about somthing that deals heavily with deserts, dragons and the plane/realm of dreams? Have a dragon fighting them with his network on the plain of dreams and in the real world.
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One thing that, I think, everyone is overlooking, is the automatic assumption that an AP has to take characters from level 1 to 20. Why does it have to be that way? And why does an AP have to have 12 parts? Can't we have one that just takes characters to maybe 10th or 12th level over the course of 6 or 7 months?
Maybe an AP that takes place entirely in a city, with the PCs having to work their way "up the ladder" of a thieves guild, starting off with low level street thugs and finishing with the guild master and his main henchmen.
To be perfectly honest demons and devils sort of bore me. I mean their nice every once and while when you need unreasoning evil to show up in the campaign, but a whole Adventure Path would be pushing it. Really being evil because you are made out the the stuff can really only go so far before it looses it's impact. Sure there are other stories you can tell, but the way evil outsiders are usually protrayed you either never see it or it's overdone. I would not-so-humbly suggest having villains with real backgrounds and motivations for their actions rather than: "Grrr, I'm evil!"
This post might seem ironic in about a year-and-a-half,
GGG
To be perfectly honest demons and devils sort of bore me. I mean their nice every once and while when you need unreasoning evil to show up in the campaign, but a whole Adventure Path would be pushing it. Really being evil because you are made out the the stuff can really only go so far before it looses it's impact. Sure there are other stories you can tell, but the way evil outsiders are usually protrayed you either never see it or it's overdone. I would not-so-humbly suggest having villains with real backgrounds and motivations for their actions rather than: "Grrr, I'm evil!"
This post might seem ironic in about a year-and-a-half,
GGG
Ironic indeed!!!
Three words: Mind. Flayer. Ninjas.
Seriously though, I loved the whole idea of mind flayers traveling to our time from the future to rebuild their empire. An adventure path dealing with their rise (or resurgence, as the case may be) would be fantastic.