Heya all.
My group is currently playing through Zenith Trajectory, and ran into quite a fight against the Erinye - this later on spured a discussion about our party line-up and our chances of survival.
Our party pedigree:
Elven Rogue/Fighter/Temple Raider 4/3/1
Human Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist 3/3/2 (I think?!?!)
Human Wizard/Rogue 5/2
Dwarven Fighter 6
Dwarven Monk/Sorcerer 3/3 (with a talent for grappling attacks)
2 of the members argued that our considerable multiclassing has jeopardized our chances of surviving all through the AP. That our our lack of "maxed out", single class, spell casters has messed up our odds, and that things will only get harder and harder from now on, making succes close to impossible. that we constantly will be one spell level short of succes.
The players with the spellcasters, the sacred fist and the wizard (who's planning to become a Lore Master) both like their characters a lot, and don't really wish to change them.
What do you guys think - can a party be too multiclassed to stand a chance through out the AP? What about our lineup, what's our odds? Should the dwarves just stop whining, and roleplay instead of moan about their inferior levels?
my group also just fought the Erinyes and managed to level up. My party consists of 6 PCs
Paladin of Heironeous 7
Goliath Barbarian 6
Rouge 5/ Fighter 2
Cleric of Wee Jas 7
Wizard 7
Aasimar Ranger 6
During the fight they were all a level lower (the rouge had 1 level of fighter)
the partys resources were somewhat spent before the fight (the wizard had cast all of his spells save some magic missles, and the cleric had used most of her heals. The Ranger is an archer with Evil Outsider as his favored enemy so him and the Erinyes traded blows from a range. However, she kept teleporting to more advantageous positions. The party was preety much running around the room trying to get away from her. Finally after a protracted battle, she appeared off of the stairway that the party was climbing. Thinking fast (sort of) the Barbarian leapt off of the stairway, tackling the demon plummeting 3 stories with the Erinyes underneath him. She teleported away, came back and a few rounds later was smote by the paladin. Drained, the party retreated to room 16 to rest. That's where we ended the session.
Remember that the Erinyes is a CR 9 creature so it should be a strain on a 6th level (or even slightly higher in my case) party. The module does suggest that multiple excursions into Bhal Hamatugn is the best way for the party to proceed, but it's hard to convince hack n' slash types to withdraw.
Why are the dwarves lower level? Are they cohorts? New characters?
I think you're party has as good a chance of survival as any. The stunted spellcasting just means that they will have to think of other ways to get around problems, but it shouldn't be too much of an issue. In any case, I don't think that this encounter is a good litmus test for the rest of the AP.
Spoilers...
That said, once you get to some of the NPC baddie spellcasters (Freija, Ike) on some of the higher level modules, then it could become a problem.
My party just encountered Aushanna last night, and the outcome is that they decided to retreat after 3 rounds of combat. The session ended with them scrambling out the secret passage to the torture chamber.
My party also consist of 6 players:
* Cleric of Mystra 7/Hathran 1
* Wizard 5/Incantatrix 2
* Bard 7
* Rogue 4/Ranger 2/Cavelord 1
* Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Champion of Gwynharwyf 2
* Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Wizard 2/Green Star Adept 2
* Barbarian 1/Fighter 5 (cohort of cleric)
This encounter is really tough, even with full progression spellcasters. Also, remember that Aushanna has spell resistance 20, so even a full progression spellcaster will have problems with her.
I think the key to dealing with Aushanna is to have good ranged capability. Every PC should have a bow, and if the party have someone that can boost their attack and damage, like a bard, it's that much better. All in all this is a tough encounter, and it's very likely that most parties will have to retreat and regroup.
As for their spellcasting capability, it's very likely they will have trouble at higher levels, when more opponents have spell resistance and high saves. They can compensate by taking Practiced Spellcaster, but they are still behind in spell aquisition.
My party:
Human Fighter 4
Fire Genasi Wizard 3
Elf Cleric 4
Elf Rogue 2 /Ranger 2 (NPC)
My party had a difficult time in the Lucky Monkey. I think the Kopru ruins will be to tough at this moment. So I'm gonna do a mini-adventure now. Hoping the players will reach 5th lvl at the end of the mini-adventure.
I used the Werebaboon (cool guy btw) mentioned on this board minus one barbarian lvl. The guy was still a PC-killer ;-)
If I overlook the entire AP, then I'll think the players will get enough of difficult moments. That's why I've decided to put (mini)adventure's in the AP.
For example. When the players come back from Occiputus i'm gonna run the adventure "What Is The Black Egg". The Half Dragons could be spawns from the dragon in Zenith...
Dimitri
"what is in the black egg"
witch issue is that from? or is that a home brew?
If your party is having a hard time there are a fewthings that i recomend... Talking to them and making sure that they are planning out encounters so that they work better as a team
and run some side adventurs so that they can get smoe more Xp some of these encounters are very difficut. THe AP has several place where a TPK is easly done if the DM is hard the PC's are un prepared and the dice are not in the PC's favor,... it only takes one of these to kill everyone off
This is what i'm having a problem with keeping it chalenging with out killing everyone... some ecounters are hard as hell some are way to easy it just how it all works out
"what is in the black egg"
witch issue is that from? or is that a home brew?
The Black Egg, DM 106. I really liked it when I first read it :-) Lots of Half-Dragons...
The Ap is the first time my pc's play in 3.5.
The encounter with TE gave them great info about the new DR rules.
They will be prepared next time...
I'd say that if your group is struggling, just inject a side adventure or some more reasonable random encounters to help bulk them up a bit.
There's nothing about the AP that REQUIRES full casters or anything of the sort...just do what you would in any case...adjust, let them advance, lower the opponents...and keep on telling the story.
I'd say that if your group is struggling, just inject a side adventure or some more reasonable random encounters to help bulk them up a bit.
There's nothing about the AP that REQUIRES full casters or anything of the sort...just do what you would in any case...adjust, let them advance, lower the opponents...and keep on telling the story.
I'd agree with Andorax, you should try to run some mini-adventures or increase random encounters to give your PCs a chance to get at a more reasonable level. Your problem does bring up an interesting point about the problem with multiclassing. One of the players in my group is a serious min-maxer and had multiclassed to such a level that he was basically ineffective. Jack of all trades, master of none. The PCs who are more focused on their particular class progression are much more effective. Maybe this is poetic justice for min/maxing?
One of the players in my group is a serious min-maxer and had multiclassed to such a level that he was basically ineffective. Jack of all trades, master of none. The PCs who are more focused on their particular class progression are much more effective. Maybe this is poetic justice for min/maxing?
OK, this thread should not become a discussion about min/maxing, but if your player has multiclassed to the extent that he's not effective anymore he's not a min/maxer... he's a crappy character builder. A min/maxer is a person who minimize his/her weak sides and maximizes his/her strong sides, not someone who tries to cherry-pick, and badly at that.