Life's Bazaar was almost a TPK… The Party had done several different attacks on the Fortes each trying to enter threw a different Secret door… They had cleared most of the foungeon except for 2 goblins 4 hobgoblins Kozmojen one lemer the durazden and the howler. So when they went back down the next time I had sealed the two secret doors one form an avalanche and the other by having people pile random furniture behind the door… however the cleric shattered the door unexpectedly and they entered again. They found a bunch of treasure and found the prisoners… they did not however try and get them out of the dungeon but gave them weapons and told them to stay there. They killed the hobgoblins that were in the Torcher room and freed the rouge sorcerer. They then tried to attack from across the bridge… just a the durazaden was leaving the room one of the parties rouges shot an arrow at him (witch pissed him off) they paty was all captured and put in prison. I had the storm blades go down and free the party and take them back to the surface. When the party went back down the fortress was empty. So they chased down the slavers into the under dark. Were they found them in a cave with a few more hobgoblins the total people they fought were 3 lemers, 4 hobgoblins, kozmjen, the durazden, and the howler… it was almost a TPK… with the party sorcerer escaping and two party members defeated and knocked out to become slavers… the players opted to create new players and become a new party brought together by the existing party sorcerer… I plan on brining the captured players back as NPC's that have been brainwashed and have them attack the party.
Wow, nearly TPK/capture twice. Sounds like your players could work on their tactics. Maybe you should fudge some rolls now and then in their favor until their tactics improve. They will get disgruntled with the rest of the AP if it keeps happening. The first time I ran Life's Bazaar was as a group playtest for 3e. Until then we were still playing 2e D&D and Warhammer fantasy RPG. Even with six players the final encounter with Kazmojen and Pyllrak killed 4 PC's and the other 2 were captured. That ended our foray into 3e and we went back to our Warhammer RPG campaign. It seems understandable that players unfamilliar with the 3e system would go down. Your group new to the game?
That's what i don't get i'm the most inexperenced one in the group... they have been playing 3.5 sence it came out i have only for just over a year now... But the kicked the crap out of TE so i think they are doing better in the morall department
I also don't hide rolls unless it's somthing like s bluff check or a sence motive check... attack rolls are out there for everyone to be seen
Wow, your group is all over the place.
Ok, first thing Molay, this isn't a critism but pay a little bit more attention to your spelling - it just makes your posts a little difficult to read. Space things out too. Don't put everything into one big paragraph.
Your post is interesting because my party had a lot more trouble with Jzadirune than with the Fortress. What level are the characters? By the time my players got to the Fortress, they were level 3 and went up to 4 right before the Kazmojen battle (but they only rested once while in the Fortress).
After they fought the hobgoblins and the animated chains in the main entrace chamber, I had the rest of the Fortress go on alert. I didn't have them attack right away. Instead I had a few hobgoblins at a time scout out the party and then retreat. Eventually they setup a big trap in the long corridor with the pit traps. The players walked right into but got through with minial damage with some good tactics (including a Tenser's floating disc to get PC's out of the pits).
So how did they get captured after all? They went across the bridge and fought Pyllrak? Did they enter Kazmojen's chamber?
I would have avoided capturing the PC's. That just derails things too much IMO. Also, why did Kazmojen and everyone flee into the Underdark? If they defeated and captured the PC's, wouldn't they feel confident and just stay put?
Sorry about the spelling i will try to get a little better with that.
So They came in threw the bridge and got pigon holled there they would have all died except that i had Kozmojen stableise them isted of killing them... i figured that they are slavers and it's logical. i really did not want to do with but they would have died.
Also why the retreated into the under dark. their Fortress had been attacked 4 times in 4 days their forces were depleted and i figured that they would go into the under dark to another slavers hideout to re group... but they again got the crap kicked out of them.
the did well in jzarsden except for fighting a chocker at 1st level without resting after fighing some skulks it almost killed everyone too...
On they were about to make 4th level but they were 3rd when they walked in there. The adventure read that they would be 4th by the end of the advnture so i figured that XP was about right when they were 3rd fighting kazmojen but i guess they needed to be 4th to do the job...
Thanks
Good luck with your party how far are they now?
So They came in threw the bridge and got pigon holled there they would have all died except that i had Kozmojen stableise them isted of killing them... i figured that they are slavers and it's logical. i really did not want to do with but they would have died.
So everyone in the party was down? Yeah, it makes sense they would have been captured and not killed. At the beginning of the Fortress description there is a note on what happens if they get captured.
I'm not sure I would have had the Striders rescue them. How did they get in? Did they kill anyone getting in? Who knew the PC's had escaped? It just raises too many issues.
I think I would have given the players a way to escape - maybe one of the other prisoners (the cook?) sneaks in and gives the PC's a key or dagger or something. Regardless, getting captured puts you in a tough position.
Also why the retreated into the under dark. their Fortress had been attacked 4 times in 4 days their forces were depleted and i figured that they would go into the under dark to another slavers hideout to re group... but they again got the crap kicked out of them.
First off, if the party kept on retreating and attacking, I would have had the prisoners gone by the time they got back. Leading up to the Fortress, I had Jenya repeatedly tell them time is of the essence. Regardless of what happens to the other prisoners, the story still continues because Vhal will get Terrem back. The party would lose out on the reward and extra XP for taking so long.
As far as retreating into the Underdark, I guess it makes sense but it does make it more complicated. I might have just had Kazmojen disappear completely. I really wanted to avoid the players going into the Underdark. Tough call either way.
the did well in jzarsden except for fighting a chocker at 1st level without resting after fighing some skulks it almost killed everyone too...
Yeah, the choker was by far the toughest. It should have been a TPK for my grout but I gave them a one-time free pass. They were all only 1st level and I have a problem with killing 1st level characters (it's too easy).
On they were about to make 4th level but they were 3rd when they walked in there. The adventure read that they would be 4th by the end of the advnture so i figured that XP was about right when they were 3rd fighting kazmojen but i guess they needed to be 4th to do the...
Well at the same time, Flood Season assumes 4th level characters. I really wanted the party to survive all the way through the first module. I actually leveled them to 4th right before the Kazmojen battle. They got all the bonuses except for new spells and hp's.
Good luck with your party how far are they now?
They will be entering the Lucky Monkey tonight. Last session was wrap-up from Life's Bazaar and the selling and buying of items. I also introduced a few new NPC's last session (Tygot, Skie, Skylar) and the House of the Blue Lanter, which is a wizard's guild that someone in this forum created.
I hope to unleash my feralized version of Tongue-Eater on my player's tonight!
My party is playing The Demonskar Legacy. They are ready to leave RedGorge and find out what's going on with Alek Tercival.
They are 6 players (so I have to adjust each encounter in order to avoid easy encounters). They are a very courios group:
- A female human druid (druid 8th)
- A female human St.Cuthbert Paladine (paladin 8th)
- A female human sorcerer (but with silver dragon-blood feat) (sorcerer 6th/Dragon Disciple 2nd)
- A male beggar (Human parangon 3rd/Cleric of Pelor 5th)
- A male hunter(Mr. bow) (Fighter 5th/Rogue 3rd)
- A thing called "Robin" (cos it's similar to a Robin bird, actually it's a Homunculus (from SS)) (good Necromancer 8th)
As you can see there's no brute force in the group, only a multyclass fighter... so they have to think a lot before enter a combat...
This friday they are going to meet the Gnoll Hunters (they are going to be 9 rangers and a 9th level cleric intead of the 6 original rangers). I'm craving for it!
Nanmaniac
Ugh, none of the quoting worked in my previous post. We really need to be able to edit posts...
Ugh, none of the quoting worked in my previous post. We really need to be able to edit posts...
I fixed it up for you. The thing to remember is to put QUOTE="xxx" inside the brackets. if you omit the ="xxx" it doesn't work.
Sorry for the hijack, continue!
Thanks Jeremy! :>)
Well i do precate the help glassjaw the comments do help with my planning for further adventures...
this is my FIRST camgaine that i'm running so it's all new to me. The running inot the underdark was a last min thought because i never expected them to get beaten like they did...
i will be bringing kozmojen back with a few levels later just now sure when...
bye the way how did you introduce (Tygot, Skie, Skylar) i want to start introducing NPCS before the party must interact with them.
that's good i may do that...
there were a few of the PC's were captured and they opted with letting them go and starting a new character i may have them brainwashed by that point and working with kazmojen because it should be several months after...
do you think that someone could be brain washed in 3-4 months??
In real life, you can do some serious psychological damage to a person in 3 or 4 months of brainwashing. You would not be able to turn a basically good and moral person into an evil slave dealer willing to kill former friends though. It just couldn't be done except in the most extroardinary of circumstances.
Oh, right, the whole magic thing. There are charm persons and suggestions that can be used that could seriously befuddle a person over time, but there would have to be a very skilled enchanter type behind the effort.
Would Kazmojen have the skill or interest available to do it? Probably not. The prisoners would either be killed as too dangerous to have around, or sold off ASAP to someone who was both powerful enough to keep them under control and needed their services.
Using the info we have on the AP, Kazmojen might sell the PCs to the kua-toans to sacrifice to their fishy god, or maybe to eat? Of course, the drow are the go-to guys of slavery, but they are beyond the scope of this adventure path as written. (Although there appear to be some drow beneath the city of Istivin, but I digress.)
I strongly warn against bringing back former PCs as antagonists. There is no joy in killing them, and even if they can be captured, and un-brainwashed, then what do you do with them? Either let them disappear for good or give the PCs a chance to rescue them. The players then have the choice of which PC they want to play.
I have some time to think about it before my PC's get there they are only half way threw flood season but I definitely appreciate the feed back and ideas... keep them coming if you have more.
I'm curious to know... how many characters are in your party? (This question is for everyone, not just Lord Molay.) Y'see, my group tends to be right around 7-8 characters, varying somewhat as real life interferes with my gaming crew, and folks need time off or have to leave... anyway, it's certainly not the "recommended" 4 characters in a party. But you know what? My players have to fight tooth n' nail to succeed at their quests, in any of the published materials (Dungeon mag, published adventures, etc.), yet they DO succeed, and despite their numbers, they still come out with about the right amount of XP to finish at the level the adventures say they should.
When I ran "Life's Bazaar," my party consisted of the following:
Rhuarc, human Wizard
Moonhawk, half-drow Rogue/Sorcerer
Bruno, dwarf Barbarian (Battle-Rager mentality)
Tor, half-orc Cleric of Istus
Saito, human Ranger/Cleric of Fharlanghn
Dilligaf, gnome Bard
Samsilon, elf Rogue (wants to be Shadowdancer when he grows up)
Kelista, female human Fighter/Rogue (Swashbuckler, not a lockpicker... NPC run by guest players or me).
As you can see, that's a pretty well-balanced group. True, we had no true Fighter-types except for Bruno, but the half-orc Cleric's 18 Strength, and the back-up support from Saito, Samsilon, and Kelista usually got them through it all. The thing that really got them through the adventure was free healing. Not only did we have two Clerics in the group (even though one is multiclassed), but the module mentions that in return for the party's assistance in rescuing the children, the Church of St. Cuthbert is happy to provide free healing for the duration of their quest! That's huge! Plus, they get a discount for buying potions and scrolls and such... and since the entrance to J'zadirune is directly below Cauldron, it usually took only a few hours for the party to return to the surface, receive healing, and then go right back to the dungeon again. Another thing they did which really helped was to purchase a Wand of Cure Light Wounds as soon as they found enough treasure to afford one. A fully charged 1st-level Wand only costs 750 gold pieces, and has 50 charges. That breaks down to only 15 gp per use! One of the best bargains in the game, really, and it kept the party healthy enough to recover from the battles quickly and keep forging onward.
Not that the adventure was a cake-walk for them... many times one of them would go down to negative hit points due to a trap going off, or some lucky hit from a skulk or hobgoblin. The choker managed to successfully grapple the dwarf and drag him under the stage, but luckily Tor was able to rip the trapdoor open and the rest of the party helped him out of a potentially lethal situation. During the fight with the grell, Moonhawk made a leap from one balcony to the other to stab the thing with his spear, but provoked an Attack of Opportunity that paralyzed him, and then the grell killed him before his friends could help out. The party later revived him at the Cathedral of Wee Jas (home of the only 9th level Cleric in Cauldron) by giving up one of the black sapphires from the Malachite Fortress. And in the end, Bruno foolishly charged the beholder when he showed up to take Terrem away, and he was turned to stone for his interference. But the party fought hard, and after the beholder left, they managed to soften up Kazmojen with magic and flanking, used the Aid maneuver to hit that hellacious AC of his, and took him down. Pyllrak really didn't have much in the way of offensive spells, as written, and the party intimidated him into giving up once he realized they could track his invisible movements (See INvisibility spell).
Anyway, the point is, that a larger party generally has more options available to it, and isn't as devastated when one drops in battle. Does anyone else have any further comment on the proper size of a party for successful adventuring?
Sounds like you're getting some curveballs that make the DM's life so interesting. From the sound of it, it sounds like you're handily them well.
If your players are continually getting whipped, it may be an issue of poor tactics on their part. You might save some time at the end of the night to discuss tactics. "That invisible guy was killing you guys. Did you know you could do x, y, z?". "You guys need to keep the rogue in mind and help him get some flanks", that sort of thing.
Oh man, that Kazmojen encounter was a great fight. I very nearly had a TPK too. If I remember right, the editorial in the next issue describes the Dungeon staff's problems with this one...they died and got captured too.
My group of 5 was 3rd level when they went down the elevator into the Malachite Fortress. We had:
Rurik, dwarf fighter 3
Ulfgar, dwarf paladin 3
Tenar, human druid 3
Dmytri, half-elf sorcerer 3
Danzig, half-orc barbarian 2/fighter 1
Plus I had Ruphus helping them since they had no clerical support...
They went down and fought Xukasus and from there went into the chamber with the hobgoblin guards that leads out into the rest of the Underdark...and one of the hobgoblins got away at the end of the fight. He ran out the double doors straight for the bazaar, yelling and raising the alarm the whole way. The party followed him only for half of them to fall in the first pit trap. They got pinned in that hallway with the guards attacking from the side hall. Then two of the same PC's fell into the other pit trap after they got out of the first one and rushed those guards by the door. The paladin chased some guards into the forge room where he freed the prisoners he found. The two who fell in both pits got out and killed the guards by the door and broke into the slave bazaar where there were more, fresh guards to fight. Plus Kazmojen and Prickles. The fight ended with one PC still conscious somewhere around 3 hp.
The party used a lot of bad tactics in this fight. They split up during combat, fighting guards in two places at once. The paladin spent too much time freeing the prisoners instead of going back out in the main hall to help the PC's in the pit. However, it was Maple, the newly freed halfling rogue, who became the turning point in the final fight with Kazmojen. She rushed out to help after three of the five were down and added just enough to swing the fight in their favor.
They started making a little more tactical decisions after this one, but combat is still a big free-for-all at our table.