Spell damage per level

Hi guys,

There are 2 spells my players like to use with their 1st level casters:

Ear Piercing Scream:

"The target is dazed for 1 round and takes 1d6 points of sonic damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6). "

and Elemental Ray

This ray deals 1d6 points of damage of your energy type + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess

I've just noticed I've ruled them differently until now. How do you read it? As a lvl 1 caster do I deal:

1d6 + daze on EPS and 1d6+1 on ER

or

only daze on EPS (gaining the 1d6 at lvl 2) and only 1d6 on ER (gaining the +1 on lvl 2)?

I've ruled daze + 1d6 dmg on EPS and 1d6 dmg on ER at lvl 1, cause I've read the levels on ER as full levels (you need 2 levels to gain the benefit)

I've ruled daze + 1d6 dmg on EPS and 1d6 dmg on ER at lvl 1, cause I've read the levels on ER as full levels (you need 2 levels to gain the benefit)

I would have Ear-Piercing Scream not deal the 1d6 until CL2. It can still daze, though.

I always understood that dice (or amount) listed in the spell where the minimum for the spell.

so for Ear Piercing scream, it would be 1d6 up to level 4, at which it would go to 2d6.

So it would go like this:

Caster level | damage
1 | 1d6
2 | 1d6
3 | 1d6
4 | 2d6
5 | 2d6
6 | 3d6

etc..

Other wise spells like interrogation (You may ask one question per two caster levels) are useless at first level since you do not get to ask even one question then.

but I have been unable to find RAW to back up what I think is RAI.

I always understood that dice (or amount) listed in the spell where the minimum for the spell.

This.

I always understood that dice (or amount) listed in the spell where the minimum for the spell.

Other wise spells like interrogation (You may ask one question per two caster levels) are useless at first level since you do not get to ask even one question then.

but I have been unable to find RAW to back up what I think is RAI.

I have only understood minimums to exist where they are explicitly stated, but I can't really back that up either. I guess it doesn't bother me that interrogate would do nothing until level 2; just don't take it before then. There are a lot of spells that bother to say (minimum 1) on these sorts of things.

I agree with Grick's interpretation, and the OP's second view.

Well, it's also not explicitly stated that the damage starts from 3rd level.

Also, logically - if it did not deal damage it would be a duplicate of 0-level spell "daze" at 1st level, which is at-will.

Moreover, the spell description says "Saving Throw Fortitude partial (see text)". It would not be a partial effect if it would only daze.

I think I'd go with 1d6+daze for EPS. Otherwise you are basically casting 'daze' as a level 1 spell which is kind of terrible.

Oh, also - a question - what happens if a spell has duration 1 turn for 2 caster levels? An analogous question.

Moreover, I was searching through spells from Ultimate Magic (EPC was there) and did not notice any spell to have minimum on damage/caster level.

I'm not seeing any level 1 spells with that duration fortunitely but if there are I think it would at least last one round.

I'm reading this after a similar reaction I had in a recent gaming session.

If you were to get 1d6 per 2 Caster Levels as a spell states, I would assume by Level 9 you would have 5d6. However the way I have seen the community so far is that you take your total Caster Level then divide by the number and since it states in the Rulebook you always Round Down, then that's what you do here. However I have also read nowhere in the Rulebook that you determine by this method.

Let's say you get 1 apple per 2 days; How many apples do you have on day 9? Logically one would assume through the method provided by numerous people in the RPG Community that you would have 4 apples, however I seem to have 5. How is this possible?

Is my Logic somehow flawed?

I have always ran spells like this in this manner:

1st 1d6
2nd 1d6
3rd 2d6
4th 2d6
5th 3d6
6th 3d6
7th 4d6
8th 4d6
9th 5d6

Basicaly as 1d6 plus 1d6 per 2 caster levels beyond when the spell was gained.

I have always ran spells like this in this manner:

1st 1d6
2nd 1d6
3rd 2d6
4th 2d6
5th 3d6
6th 3d6
7th 4d6
8th 4d6
9th 5d6

Basicaly as 1d6 plus 1d6 per 2 caster levels beyond when the spell was gained.

This is how I've run it as well. Though more of a "rounding up" method than a simple minimum plus stuff.

Until I found the "always round down" rule. A lot of low level spellcasters got mad at me.

I really don't like that it says 1d6 for every 2 levels yet seemingly imply (or have people infer) that it's 1d6 damage at first level. The fact that level 1 damage and level 3 damage would be the same is stupid; it breaks the pattern of 2.

It should either have no damage at level 1, or add an extra dice every 2nd level (level 3,5+) — that's how most spells and abilities work in this game. Due to rounding rules, I suppose that it should be 0 damage at level 1, hence not a useful spell until level 2 and later. I'd kinda like to see more spells/abilities that give bonuses at even levels, since I think the majority are at odd levels?

I think I'd go with 1d6+daze for EPS. Otherwise you are basically casting 'daze' as a level 1 spell which is kind of terrible.

But there are major differences between the two

Daze is a Will Save that has a Cap on HD (4)
Daze also disallows recasting on the same target that has been Dazed for a minute

Ear Piercing Scream is a Fort Save with no Cap
EPS also doesn't have a Recast Timer on it (so you could keep doing it every round)

So it is an upgrade to the 0 Level Spell. Even without the Damage.

Magic Missile is set up so you get a Die of Damage at 1st, and an additional Die (Missile) every 2 Levels after that (3rd, 5th...). Since EPS doesn't give a Minimum, I wouldn't let it do damage till 2nd level.

The Elemental Ray would do D6 at level 1, D6+1 at level 2, D6+2 at level 4....

Let's say you get 1 apple per 2 days; How many apples do you have on day 9?

Day 1: No apples, because it hasn't been 2 days.

For an example that doesn't use time, lets say there's a recipe for pie that uses exactly two apples. If you have one apple, you can't make a pie. If you had two apples, you could make one pie. How many pies can you make from 9 apples?

So for spells, at CL 1 you don't have two caster levels, so you don't get the die. At CL 3, you only have one set of "two caster levels" so you only get one die. And at CL 9, you have four sets of "two caster levels" so you get four dice.

There's a lot of "this is how I would handle it" answers, which are not necessarily a bad thing. It's awkward and weird and therefore people create house rules. Very understandable.

However the question as presented by the OP seems to be more direct. A strict reading of the rules would agree with Grick. The game specifically mentions rounding down, minimums are always explicit, and the English is fairly clear.

At CL 1 you simply Daze with no damage. Either don't choose the spell at this level, or choose it preemptively and don't use it.

If it were otherwise there would be a (minimum 1d6) clause or it would have read similarly to Magic Missile:

For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile

and said something along the lines of:

1d6 damage + 1d6 damage for every two caster levels beyond 1st.

Sometimes spells aren't written with the right verbiage or things get edited and changed and suddenly there's a weird interaction for 1 level or so. I would rule like Grick, though, and go with the strict interpretation of CL/2 and round down. It keeps everything in line.

I just realized my problem, I have been counting forwards when everything I've seen from others says that you're supposed to count backwards.